Good Morning Bunny

I am terribly sorry I have not been by sooner to bid you welcome
WELCOME!!!! and so glad you are here.
I have been reading your thread.
You seem to be in good hands and getting great advice/suggestions

Have you had a chance to get to Barnes and Noble?

have a great day, Bunny
hugs to you and your family
Hypatia

So.... how was the weekend?

You might also want to acknowledge his tactics in the course of detaching from them. Something like, "I'm sorry you're in a bad mood. I don't enjoy it when you stonewall me, you know. When you're feeling better, I'd love to snuggle."

Hi Everyone! Thanks for the welcome, Hypatia-- everyone certainly has been very helpful!

The weekend was good. Friday night, we made dinner at home and went to see a movie he wanted to see (Max Payne).

Saturday we went to the gym together, then went shopping at the mall, and then had his cousin and his wife over for a " card game night". All was good.

Sunday, I went to work early (myself) and was supposed to meet a friend for lunch afterwards (which I could tell H was not happy about... he's not happy anytime I do anything by myself- even if I'm entirely transparent about it, which I was), although I presented the lunch to him as a thoughtful request ("How would you feel if I went to work early Sunday morning then grabbed lunch with Rachel before I came home to watch football with you?"). He said it was fine, but I could tell he wasn't happy.

It turned out my friend and I got our lines crossed anyways, and lunch didn't end up happening (we rescheduled for next Sunday, which I've already told H about)-- and then I came home and we had another friend of mine and her husband and 7 year old come over to watch football with us (they live 2 hours away and happened to be in town visiting).

All in all, not a bad weekend. Usually the "meltdowns" don't happen on the weekends though, because we spend a lot of time together and do fun things. The vast majority of them occur during the week.

I did get to Barnes and Nobles... and I had to order the book (they didn't have it in stock). So they are supposed to call when it is in.

Today, he is working in a neighboring town where the woman that he was all flirty with exactly a year ago (and took her out to lunch) works. The client he is working on now is in the same town as her, which is bothering me a bit... as far as I know, there's been NC between the two of them since last October.

Thanks for checking in with me

quote:

Do I make plans and go out myself, even if he's not happy with that (he won't be)?

I'd say - yes. ESPECIALLY when he's playing up! Because it seems to me that the result of him playing up has to be that you do LESS of what he wants rather than MORE. Otherwise it's an effective control strategy.
And you earlier mentioned balancing getting out of the house vs. transparency. I don't think the two are related - if the atmosphere is oppressive - and you have places you'd rather be - get out - you can still be totally transparent about where you are and completely contactable - but transparency doesn't mean you have to stay home and be victim to his moods. It's about building trust, not doing penance, and it kind of sounds like you two sometimes mix the two up.

As for detachment - I have no advice - I'm struggling with the same issue! It's funny, when H is home and in a foul mood, I find just the very air oppressive, the mood just seems to permeate the house. It's the same as I used to feel as a kid when my mum was in a mood. At the same time, I'm unhappy when he's not there too! What a confused person...

Wow, Mags, you sound just like me!

My mom would also have wild mood swings, that I had to put up with as a young girl. My dad is pretty detached. He was hardly ever home, and I've never really been close with him. He's pretty emotionally non-existent. My mom on the other hand, is a classic drama queen. I think some of that stems from her trying to get my dad's attention... some of my first memories was my mom screaming at my dad in the driveway, then scooping me up and taking me to my aunt's for the night... my mom has always been a very "dramatic" person... I hate drama... but it seems I'm stuck again at the whims of someone else's moods, trying to toe the line so not to upset them and cause another drama-fest. Welcome to my first 18 years of my life... again. Sigh.

It is oppressive when they are in a bad mood, isn't it? Last night, H was in a foul mood again. He said he had a hard day at work, but was clearly taking it out on me. So, I handed him a beer, told him to go play video games (sigh), and I was going to the gym and I'd make dinner when I got home.

When I got home, I cooked dinner for him, and then cleaned it all up. Made him some tea. When I sat down-- finally-- at 9 pm, I asked him if he felt better... he said "not really". I wanted to strangle him. Its like nothing is good enough for him.... NOTHING. Did I even so much as get a thank you?? Nope. Not even a thank you. Again this morning, he slept in, I took care of all of the morning duties (taking the dog out, getting lunches together, etc etc). Still no thank you, and still in a mopey, foul mood.

I'm not good at the detaching stuff. Really not good at it. I want to strangle him when he gets this way. I want to shake and yell at him. It takes a HUGE amount of self-control to not just scream at him that he's being self-centered and unreasonable. That I'm tired of being blamed for his own problems and issues.

I'm really not good at detaching. It REALLY REALLY REALLY drives me up a wall when he starts this whole ungrateful, selfish, poor-me, victim attitude. I get really angry and very resentful... because I've been dealing with this attitude for over a year now, and he's YET to take responsibility for ANY damage he's done with his own infidelities and lying... (among other things...)

Any suggestions on detaching?

OK, so I had a dream last night, that sort of symbolizes how I feel anymore and what goes on a lot.

In my dream, I was under the impression that H was doing something for work. I was out walking the dog, (and jumping in and out of a river, off of a bridge, for some reason, but that's just a silly part of the dream)... and came across people tailgating for a local football game. Lo and behold, who do I see at the tailgate? H.

Well, in my dream, I'm angry because he lied to me about where he was (of course). I confront him, and immediately he turns it around on me, gets angry WITH ME as if it is MY FAULT that he lied to me (I knew you'd get angry... blah blah blah-- he's being defensive and angry towards me). Then he starts with the whole "well you did it" stuff (that is his defense to everything anymore).

I get frustrated, angry. I walk away, and lo and behold, my friend (who doesn't live anywhere near us... but somehow was there...) was there. I started telling her about how he was being a big jerk. She then starts sticking up FOR HIM! Telling me that I need to understand this that and the other thing... (I don't remember exactly what she said in the dream, I just remember feeling extremely betrayed).

I guess that dream really summarizes where I am right now. I feel like H has put on this public persona of a victim, and people "feel bad" for him, and think of me as the bad guy. And he perpetuates that. And that it makes me incredibly angry, because he's distorting the truth to both himself and other people... to justify doing whatever he wants.

The dream really upset me, I woke up at 4 am, half in tears, and couldn't get back to sleep for at least an hour.

Why is this so stressful? Why do I CARE so much?

quote:

I'm really not good at detaching. It REALLY REALLY REALLY drives me up a wall when he starts this whole ungrateful, selfish, poor-me, victim attitude. I get really angry and very resentful... because I've been dealing with this attitude for over a year now, and he's YET to take responsibility for ANY damage he's done with his own infidelities and lying... (among other things...)

Any suggestions on detaching?

Growing up isn't quite the same as detaching, though the elements are sometimes the same. There are a lot of things worth reading out there. One thing I'm going to suggest is You Don't Have to Take It Anymore by Steven Stosny. It's about abusive relationships and how you grow enough to stand firm in "I love you so much that I am not going to allow you to do further damage to me."

There is much, much more to it; much of the work we do here at SYMC is based in its principles. I'd also suggest that you read up on the classes SYMC has offered in the past on compassion:

http://saveyourmarriagecentral.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/...1069941/m/9521040151

http://saveyourmarriagecentral.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/...1069941/m/2851048251

http://saveyourmarriagecentral.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/...1069941/m/4921054451

http://saveyourmarriagecentral.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/...1069941/m/2841030651

http://saveyourmarriagecentral.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/...1069941/m/2611027751

http://saveyourmarriagecentral.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/...1069941/m/8921054951

http://saveyourmarriagecentral.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/...1069941/m/5601043192

I'm NOT saying that your marriage is abusive. I'm saying that your life has elements of unresolved conflict and a whole lot of resentment surrounding that conflict. The more you can work through those things -- and Stosny's work will help immensely -- the better off you'll be, and the more easily you'll be able to grow within the marriage as it currently sits.

All of which leads me back to whether you should go out with friends or not.

There isn't a clear yes or no answer on this one, and what I would tend to look at is motivation. Are you going out because you genuinely enjoy it and want to have that experience? Or are you going out "because he's a poopoohead"? One of them is healthy, the other is a form of punishment. Do you see the difference?

Now here's something that I noticed too..

So.. H came home in a crapola mood.. the you proceeded to become donna reed (are you old enough to know who that is??).. aka.. the perfect wife.

so when you asked him if he felt better and he said no.. in that moment what core hurt was touched? What internal emotion was struck at that moment.

if you can recall that.. I'd like you to ask yourself why you felt that.

See cause thats not about your H's reaction. Thats about you and what you feel. That is not him playing the victim. Thats about him not realizing that you feel you went out of your way to make his evening better and he didn't appreciate it. But again.. how you felt because of it is not about him. Thats about you.

Now..I'm not saying your H was right.. But.. if he was stuck in his mood...then he wasn't aware enough to notice. Or he was thinking that you're just doing what you 'should' be doing.. in behaving like donna reed..aka..the perfect wife role.

(and btw.. just out of curiosity what was your motive for doing that stuff. Was it actually to make your H feel better and show him you love him or was it more self serving in that you wanted him to feel better so that your evening wouldn't go down the tubes)

So..

did you tell him that you did all that because he had a bad day yesterday and it was your way of telling him you understand? Did you tell him that you did all those chores this morning because you love him and hoped he'd appreciate it?

Or did you expect him to mind read.

Here's the thing. You HAVE to start communicating and talking. You HAVE to start telling him what you want and not expect that he's going to magically just do it.

I always laughed that my exH would do something and just come over to me afterwards and tell me.. Oh.. guess what I did.. I cleaned this and I did that and come look at what I did. Like a little kid. And I used to wonder.. for crying out loud. I do that all the time and I don't ask for applause. But maybe.. you should.

Now I learned about detachment thru Alanon.. but your spouse/loved one does not have to have an addiction or anything like that in order for you to learn about detaching with love.

Here's two articles about it. Read them and see how they sit with you. And btw.. there on the same lines as the compassion core hurts threads J gave you to look at. Both of these things can and do go hand in hand because they're all about your internal feelings.

detachment - get ready for love

How detaching can be loving for all


Loui

Great links. I'm still reading through, but I really enjoyed the first one.

With the friends deal... I do do it because I enjoy it-- although the "stress" involved in going out with friends sometimes diminishes that enjoyment. (stress being the stress inherent in anytime that I do anything with friends, his suspicions go up and it usually induces a round of his mopey-ness and general disdain towards me...). Generally speaking, I worry the vast majority of the time I'm away of what his reaction is going to be when I get home. But yet, he goes out at least once a week golfing with his buddies, gets a beer after work with buddies all the time... with nothing from me. Its a huge double standard...

Just last night he was saying that he can't wait to get out of the town we live in, move away, etc. We have been planning to move in about a year for awhile now. He said it can't come soon enough. And that he feels like "the zoloft guy" on TV, like he has a constant raincloud over his head all the time. He did try AD's about a year ago now... but he hated them, and he said they made him feel like he just didn't feel anything at all and was just a robot. Hmm...

Yes, there's tons of unresolved conflict in our M-- and a ton of resentment on both sides. And the resentment seems to compound itself. It seems when he gets more resentful, then I get more resentful, which makes him more resentful... etc.

I usually bow out of these "competitions"-- because they are fruitless. I guess I just am getting tired of always having to be "the bigger person" anymore, while he acts like a child a lot anymore.

Had another nightmare last night... similar to the one the previous night, only this one I caught him at a stripper place... stuffing dollars in a stripper's underwear. Again in my dream, he acted as if I was the one doing something wrong... defensive, angry. I don't remember any more of it than that.

OK, I have to start out with... wow, do I love this place!!! You guys have such great thoughts to share, and give me so much to think about, and don't make me feel like a giant piece of poo...

In repsonse to the whole Donna Reed bit... yep, that's my usual response to his moods. And, Loui, you're on to something... part of it is to make him feel better, honestly. If I could, I'd fix it myself, but I realize its something he has to want to fix, not something I can do for him. BUUUUTT... I'm not that noble of a person... part of it is so that my evening doesn't go down the tubes. Its really both. And sometimes it is more of my compassion coming through and that I feel bad for him... and sometimes my green-eyed monster takes over and its more just for my own benefit (and then the resentment sets in...).

Core hurts... Hmm... when he said he didn't feel much better after my Donna Reed transformation... I definitely felt under-valued, unappreciated.

I have tried telling him what I would like from him, or what I need. Generally speaking, he answers that with "I'm not ready to do that for you". Word for word. He says he's not ready to do anything for me or the M until he decides whether or not he wants it.

Today he seems to be in a better mood. Its like a constant rollercoaster ride...

I have some reading to do... thanks for all of the links. Just wanted to let you know that I'm still here, thinking, reading... and trying to reap all the benefits from this as I can. And answer some ????s.

OK, Loui,

I read the detaching articles, and I agree 100% with them. BUT... the articles focus on what detachment IS and WHY it is beneficial, not HOW one goes about doing it. I guess I might understand how "detachment" applies a little more in the case of an alcoholic... but not so much in terms of my situation? Can you send me links or lead me a bit there?

Can't thank you all enough... sorry I'm on a roll posting today

Just wanted to say thank you to JustJ for posting those links.

I feel like I was hit over the head with a book, but it all make so much sense... its like it was all there, I just never put it all together. Wow. I need to re-read (and then probably re-read again...) and really, really digest. But-- THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!

I'm really starting to process here, really digest

My only questions now-- are-- how do you translate this into ACTIONS? HOW do you go about DOING this (similar to my question to Loui, I suppose...).

OK, bunny signing off for a bit to digest and mull more... sorry about the many posts, just so much great info to respond to!

Okay bunny..

you need to understand that these are not quick fix read it and just follow the steps.

These are fundamental changes that happen when you shift your thinking as well as your doing.

First take the articles that J has given you to read. Read them slowly and thoroughly. Maybe more than once to really digest them. If its helpful, read what people posted afterwards.

There will be suggestions and ideas along the way.

The same thing with the detachment stuff. It is something that has to be read slowly. Completely understood and gone back to over and over again till you shift your thinking.

it takes time and work. Ya think you're up for that?

Loui

I know... I said I was gonna re-read (and then re-read again).

A journey of a thousand steps... starts with one step forward, right?

ayup.. it surely does.

So read and come back here and we'll help you wander down the yellow brick road.

Loui

OK... so I need some guidance on a situation that arose last night. I want to deal with this appropriately going forward, and I also want to be able to self-evaluate and recognize where I may have went wrong, and what went well last night because things like this happen frequently.

Here's what happened:

We had a normal evening. Nothing spectacular, but he wasn't in one of his withdrawn, mopey moods. When we went to go to bed, he climbed into bed with a shirt on... which is bizarre for us because we usually sleep... umm... nude.

Anyways, I asked him why he had a shirt on, and he said in pissy voice that he had been cold the past few nights. I said I'd snuggle him to keep him warm, and to pull the covers up. He got a tone of voice with me that I don't like... its hard to describe, but how it sounds to me is when a parent says to a child "NO, because I said so and I'm the parent". I don't like being talked to this way by my H-- it makes me feel demeaned. He does this frequently when he gets in these "its my way or the highway" moods.

Now-- excuse me if I get a little "Harley" on you- that's my background (I've been reading books and the site and posting over there for over a year now, and have also counseled with Jennifer a few times...so that is how I tend to approach things currently)...

Now, I guess I have a boundary with how he communicates with me. I do not appreciate him communicating with me in an absolute "I'm right, you're wrong, so sit down and shut up" kind of way, which is how I feel that he comes off sometimes. It makes me feel like my feelings and my thoughts are not valued. I was VERY careful to not put any DJs in there, to not attack, and to keep my voice calm.

He responded that I was being unreasonable. I told him it wasn't about the shirt, its about the way that he communicates those things to me. I tried to explain that communication is a two way street--- and that maybe he didn't mean to say to me that he didn't care what I thought or how I felt, but when he talks to me that way, that is how I feel.

He said I was being unreasonable and that my feelings weren't valid because they didn't make sense. I told him that just because it is something that wouldn't bother him, doesn't mean that it doesn't bother me or shouldn't matter.

My fault in this is that the conversation probably went on far longer than it should have. Most of what I tried to tell him about my feelings (which were carefully worded and not once did I raise my voice with him, not even once... no attitude at all... I've gotten REALLY good at eliminating that...) he met most of my concerns with "yeah, whatever" or eye rolls (literally). I tried to ask him questions, get him involved, ask him what bothered him in terms of communication, but he literally rolled away from me and refused to talk. I felt like I was dealing with a 4 year old...

He said that he did care about my feelings (although his actions when I was visbly upset last night said otherwise), and I told him that I gave him the benefit of the doubt, that I did believe him, but it was a mis-communication between us that we frequently have. And that I'd appreciate it if he could try to see things from my POV. He said my POV wasn't valid and that he couldn't do that. I explicitly laid out what exactly it is that makes me feel like he's considering my feelings, and he said that he didn't feel like needed to do that because "it wouldn't matter to him". I tried telling him, but it matters TO ME.

So, finally after beating my head against a wall and getting NOWHERE for an hour at least with all of this... I tried to explain to him that I wanted to work through our problems together, try to find a common middle ground, so that we were both happy (POJA, without really using the term). He said he "couldn't do that right now" (meaning, until he decides if he wants the M or not... again... back to that...) I turned off the light and we went to sleep.

Now, this is where we get to what bothers me immensely about all of this.

This morning, we get up, and HE goes down stairs and start taking care of the dog and the lunches and everything (he never does this EXCEPT when he's in one of his "I need to make up for being a Jerk" moods). He wasn't overly nice this morning, but was cordial and tried to make conversation. He emailed me when he got into the office and said that he hoped I had a good day, and that he hoped I found a close parking spot today (I work in a urban area and it is hard to find reasonably priced parking close by if you get in late, which I did this morning).

It is frustrating, because I know when I get home tonight, he'll behave as if nothing happened.

And I have two choices:

I can bring back up the way he treated me last night, and make it clear that it is unacceptable (which I do believe is true).

-or-

I can let it go... again. This is what I usually do, because I've found, if I try to bring it up again, even using every tool that I have in my tool box from the Harley's and other IC... he goes right back into his moods and its like talking to a 4 year old again with the eye rolls and the complete and total invalidation of anything I say. And the anger and yelling again. Its his way-- or no way at all.

I'm tired of "letting all this go" and him "getting away" with treating me this way.... it is unacceptable. BUT... we all know boundaries have to have consequences for crossing them. And that's where I struggle. What the heck is the consequence for invalidating my feelings and treating me like crap?

Where do I go from here? Where is the yellow brick road??

I feel like if I "detach" from this... well then, he wins. Again. He treats me like crap, overreacts, invaldiates my feelings... and yet, everything goes back to normal the next day.

But if we try to talk, this just gets dragged out for yet ANOTHER day.

What the heck do I do??

Help... hopefully soon, before I go home from work... !!

Hopefully this all made sense...

To be fair Bunny.. I'm not a psychologist or counselor, so I'm just coming from experience.

What would happen ... internally to you...without guessing or assuming what your H will do or think or say.

What would happen internally to you if you went home and YOU decided that you are in a good mood and that YOU wanted to have a good evening...despite of how your H may have behaved last night or might behave tonight.

it could be as tired as you are of bringing things up and getting no satisfaction...I'm thinking thats how tired he is of listening to them and/or talking about them.

What if you were to suggest that even though you feel last nights stuff is unresolved right now.. and even though he's not sure how he feels about the marriage.. that tonight is designated as an 'emotional/upset free zone'. Ask him to sit down with you and together lets decide on something we'd both like to do together this evening. (whether its as simple as watching TV and ordering a pizza or taking a walk together somewhere pretty and then a quiet dinner somewhere)

Like a date night. and you can include that tonight you'd like suggest as part of the evening that you to go to bed the way you usually do.. naked and snuggly.

See what kind of reaction you get.

Its not putting aside how you feel.. because...

Then tomorrow you can bring up maybe this suggestion. My therapist had suggested this thing for my exH and I at one time... we weren't allowed to talk about all the yukky stuff except for a 1/2 hr every day. I got 15 mins to talk (and he had to sit quietly and listen and not interrupt.. even if he was dying to).. and then he got 15 mins to talk and I could not interrupt, even if I was dying to.

During that time you could bring up the affairs, the emotional needs that aren't being met, the issue of his fence sitting, invalidating your feelings, whatever the yukky stuff between the two of you is. Whatever had you upset that day, Anything that is considered yukky.

All that time is.. is for him to 'listen' to you and you to 'listen' to him. There might not be any resolve to the issues brought up. But they are spoken about and heard...

I wonder if that might help the situation. That way he doesn't feel that at any moment you are going to bring up stuff he doesn't want to talk about.. and you know that you get to say what you need to with a time limit.

And what you described above..well this sounds like just more of the same you've described earlier. Passive aggressive behavior.

Loui

Thanks for the suggestions, Loui.

The learning I've done with MB has taught me to do exactly what you've described (plan A, as it was called there). I've been doing exactly as you described-- I decide I'm happy, exactly, ask him what he wants to do, etc etc... just like you said.

The problem with this is two fold... I'm not saying that it isn't a valid approach, it is. And it was one worth trying. And honestly, I've been doing EXACTLY what you've said... for at least a solid 6 months now.

OK, so the problem is... first and foremost... this "lets him off the hook" in my eyes. He will most likely go right along with it-- he KNOWS what he pulled last night was jerky, at best. (not the shirt thing, but the breakdown in communication and his refusal to re-engage). I guess I'm tired of that dance. It seems at this point that my going home and being all happy is "endorsing" how he behaved last night, and "settling" for the crumbs he consistently throws me after an incident such as above.

Its encouraging him to CONTINUE the behavior. He can act as jerky as he wants... there's no consequences. When he decides its over, its over. There's no talking about it, there's no resolution. And it doesn't matter if the incident still bothers me... he decided it was over.

And by going along with that... I'm enabling the behaviour anymore, I feel. I've tried, Loui, I honestly have. What you described is where Jennifer from MB had me... for months. It honestly hasn't changed a thing. He still does as he pleases, blows up when things don't go his way, and when he decides its over, its over-- and I better decide at that point it is over too, or he's going to be mad then that "I'm dragging it out".

If I suggest that we do something together-- he'll agree-- but then be very, very difficult about it. Such as: I suggest we go to bed and snuggle naked and watch TV before bed. He'll agree-- in a tone of voice that says he's not that excited about it, but whatever. I ignore that. But then he'll decide he really needs to start the laundry before bed. Needs to check his email. Oh, brush his teeth. And the sink really needs cleaned (funny, none of this stuff mattered to him before). And then cut his toe nails... and before you know it, its 2 hours after I asked him to come to bed... and when he climbs into bed, he's "exhausted" from all the stuff he just "had" to do. He agrees... then sabotages it, and somehow I end up looking like the bad guy, because, I'm bothering him and heck, he cleaned the sink and did all this other stuff for me... what a horrible b!tch I must be...

I guess I feel like at this point, I need to be a tad bit more proactive and stop with the whole letting things go and the whole stepford wife, cheery personality. It hasn't worked. It really hasn't. It enables the behavior from him, and he gets off "scot-free". I'm not going to "punish" him per se, and I have struggled with "consequences"... but I can't continue to "pretend" this behavior is acceptable. Its been going on for over a year now.

I'm not discounting your advice, Loui, I think it is valuable. I'm just saying I've tried this, and it doesn't seem to work in terms of any sort of resolution FOR ME. For the relationship, sure. The relationship goes back to peaceful. BUT-- it is not at all a two way street, and hasn't been for a YEAR! That's a long time. I have consistently sacrificed and I have consistently pushed aside my feelings and "acted" over them, to the point where I have so much resentment built up and feel very taken advantage of and manipulated.

What to do?!

Oh, and in terms of talking...

I've tried that too (also a suggestion of Jennifer).

What does he do? In the middle of my talking, he starts picking at lint on his shirt, playing with his fingernails... fixing the blinds if they are nearby... anything, anything at all to send the message that he really doesn't give two craps about what I'm saying-- without actually SAYING that. He pretends to go along, but again sabotages the entire purpose.

Or he'll get incredibly angry with me over anything that I say... and then that will drag out for days too. I'm not allowed to express anything that makes me upset... he either tells me I deserve it (I created the situation, and I made him the way he is now)...

And then he INSISTS that his anger is "not like a switch" (his words) and that he can't "just turn it off", so once he gets angry, he can't act like a normal human being until it "goes away"-- which is a totally arbitrary thing-- most closely associated with when he needs me to do something or go somewhere with him again. Until then, he'll sulk, snap at me when I say something, withdraw, etc.

So, I'll either get that he'll make it clear that he couldn't care much less what I have to say... or, he'll then "get mad" because of what I expressed, and I'll have to deal with his sullen mood, and general pissy-ness until HE decides that "its over" again-- and once again, nothing gets solved at all. It almost makes things WORSE for me to try to talk to him that way...

And if I ask him to talk... I get this reply:

"There's nothing to talk about"

-or-

"I have nothing to say"

I'm really at wits end with him. It seems that all "conventional" tactics have failed miserably or despite my best intentions... have been sabotaged. I just don't know what to do anymore. I feel like I've become a doormat to his whims. I really am at wits end with him-- I just don't understand how he can be so COLD... but yet when its convenient for him, he can be such a sweet person.

As an example, about a month ago, he had surgery. I took the rest of the week off of work to take care of him. Made him homemade chicken noodle soup, held his hand at 3 am while he was soaking in a hot bath because he couldn't get to sleep 'cause he was in too much pain, waited on him hand and foot. He deserved it-- he had surgery! And he was very grateful, very affectionate for that week. VERY. Even said to me "I know I haven't been fair to you all the time" and was telling me what a great wife I was, how beautiful I was, etc... bought me flowers the one day when he felt good enough to go to the grocery store.. and a thank you card... whole nine yards!! It was great! He said that he thought the entire experience was good for us, as a couple... I was really optimistic... it felt like I was walking on clouds... I made sure that I told him, over and over again, how much I loved the affection, etc etc (Jennifer suggested I make it very clear to him the things I like/appreciate...).

Within ONE WEEK of him actually being up and about again... all of that behavior DISAPPEARED. Gone. And I was all gung-ho, energized from the apparent turn around... and then he just started the nit-picking and selfish behaviors again... And then I just felt USED. How else are you supposed to feel?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bunny,

Hey bunny - seems to me what you're dealing with is verbal/emotional abuse. There is nothing (NOTHING) you can do to make him behave differently. You can certainly set boundaries and limits on what you will and will not allow in your life, though. Have you looked at the compassion info here? Compassion is the antidote, the only antidote, actually, to abuse. It is the skill necessary for someone to stop abusing others and it's your most important skill for not allowing it any longer.

I think I'll be offering the compassion/abuse class again this winter. It's been more than a year since we did that. I'll post info on the boards when I have dates and other info about it.

In the mean time .... what books did you get? Was Stosny's "You Don't Have to Take It Anymore" one of them?

Hugs to you ..

P

Penny,

Thanks for replying

I have been thinking about this in the Harley boundaries/consequences way...

I know my boundaries... although somehow he has a way of making me doubt whether or not they have been crossed... he has a way of turning things back on me and doubting whether or not I really was the unreasonable one...

Where I struggle is with consequences. With a child, its easy. You're grounded... no TV... take away a toy... etc etc...

What do you do with an ADULT?

I can't very well take away his TV!

I guess the only thing I can see as a consequence is "leaving"... but I don't know that I'm honestly ready for that yet. That seems like using a nuclear bomb to break up a school yard fight, ya know? Eventually, ya, it will probably come to that... but you can't just pack your bags and threaten to leave every time someone crosses a boundary... so, what do you do? I can play the whole "silent treatment" game-- go about my business until he decides to stop behaving that way... but that seems to be a bit childish too... me behaving like him.... and still, it goes back to I go about my business and once he decides its over, then its over.

He's got ALL of the control, and he knows it and likes it. I don't want control, but I don't want to BE CONTROLLED either.

So... what do you do? I have to do this with ACTIONS with him, not words. Words get twisted and used back against me.

I have Stonsy's book on order at B&N. They are supposed to call me when it comes in. H is very much opposed to me reading/learning/even posting on sites like this too. He thinks they are all "pyschobabble" and totally invalid. I'll probably have to keep it from him, or he'll flip a lid over that too...

So frustrating...

And I'll put my BANK ACCOUNT on the fact that he acts all fine, doesn't say a WORD about last night (I don't even REMEMBER the last time he apologized for ANYTHING anymore... everything is my fault)...

Tonight we are supposed to meet his cousin at a local bar to watch the hockey game and have a celebratory drink with him as he passed an important professional exam. I put money on the fact that hubby acts like absolutely nothing is wrong, and is the sweet, model hubby in front of everyone else.

Everyone thinks I'm crazy because he's this model husband when there's other people around (so he's perfectly capable of it). Hence my dreams the other night, and feeling betrayed when my friend chimed that it was my fault...

I guess I just feel very alone... he's manipulated this entire situation... I've let him... its my fault too... I just don't know how to fix it now. I was trying hard, trying the plan A way-- the "happy cheery, nothing is wrong, I forgive you, everything is OK and what you do doesn't bother me" way.

I understand that for the situation to change... I HAVE TO CHANGE my behavior. I know that. I just don't know WHAT to change it to.

Penny, I've read the articles, but I need to re-read and take a few hours and mull this weekend about them and how to apply them to my life best. I feel like they are one of the things that really need to set in, really digest. I have a superficial grasp right now, but that's all.