[QUOTE]

So in addition to the work you do at RN, how about some very, very careful observation of the real world, and identifying where you make flawed and/or faulty assumptions?

QUOTE]

I do need to take a closer look at the reality vs beliefs in my life. I know on that I definitely look at life thru rose colored glasses and don't see the reality of certain situations. I tend to gloss over things which should get closer attention. My job, my marriage, my children.

As I work on myself, I am taking a harsh look at my relationships to make sure I "see" them as they are, without ignoring the issues I gloss over. My relationships on all levels are improving by being honest with myself.

Thanks for the feedback.

Stevenkd..

If it isn't too personal a question..

Are you working the 12 step program in SAA?
If so.. what step are you on? Which have you achieved? Do you have a sponsor?

Loui

Hi Louie,

I am working a 12-Step in SAA and am currently working on Step Three. I am having difficulty with it, because like all people with addictive tendencies, giving up control is a huge issue with us.

I have a sponsor who is very spiritually grounded and he is an excellent resource for me. We meet usually every two weeks or so to review our mutual progress. He comes from a similar background maritally as I and we are close to the same age, which works well for our mutual growth.

The reality is I am working with Penny, RN and SAA. Sometimes balancing work in all the programs is difficult, but they certainly complement each other well.

i am making good progress in all, but Penny challenged me this week to question my own level of comfort with myself and being truly "alone" in my skin.

Thanks for checking on me.

Steve

quote:

Penny challenged me this week to question my own level of comfort with myself and being truly "alone" in my skin.

Hello Steve,
would you care to share what at this time means to you?

Hi Hypatia,

Penny was challenging me to try to get a feeling for what being alone is. I feel frightened and very uncomfortable when alone. Not al the time, but sometimes I have to leave the house because I need social interaction. Sometimes I plan things with friends or family.. other times I just go out to dinner alone, hoping to meet someone to chat with.

Penny's challenge is that that fear is the crux of my tendency toward addiction. My core hurt of feeling alone, which dates to my first childhood experience of being left at school at 4 years of age and feeling terrified of being without my mother. Those feelings, along with other issues in my young years over time have left me feeling "unlovable" and hence I cannot love myself.

Penny feels that rather than running from that aloneness, I should sit with it, feel it and discover peace with being alone. Much of the reason for my A can be traced to being alone much of the time with my W working overnites 7 on and 7 off. I over time got increasingly anxious about that alone time, which I masked with OL porn and the A. So... Penny feels I need more work in this area, to feel lovable before I can give love.

I hope that gives you more to respond to. Thanks for checking in, all of you are great resources.

Steve

A quick hello Steve to say thank you for the post.

we are have A-mazing thunderstorms right now, again. It's been a summer


I will get back here as soon as this bunch roll by.
my computer would not appreciate a zap
and neither would i

Hypatia

alone

indeed a potentially scary confusing empty idea

and then when it is a reality
when the only sounds are the thoughts in our heads
core hurts can sneak out from the places where they have laid dormant for such a long time

alone
truly alone
leaves to our own resources
to our own responsibility
to our little voices

people do some pretty amazing things in order to quiet the core hurts trying to creep out when we are alone
as you have experienced
there is on line porn
infidelity
seeking out others to fill what seems like quiet but instead is really the core hurts trying to peek thru
filling your life with friends and family

you went out to dinner in hopes of a chance conversation with strangers
others go to bars
some go to movies
some people spend too much time at work
some over extent them selves socially
some people in and out of random relationships seeking that one person who will insure they never be alone again
many people look to alcohol and other substances to dull and quiet the core hurts
and a myriad of other ways to avoid what it really feels like to be alone

many many people have no idea that this is what they are doing
goodness
our society encourages us to live MORE life
fill up our lives
have more friends
be more busy
don't stop live more
do more
with noise from our shiny televisions
with cable hook up
with internet
this cool place to go
that exciting place to play
we see characters on TV shows and in movies whose lives are full and they are sooo happy
the Jones do more and more and more every year
and we try to keep up with them
there is a plethora of products advertised to us to help us be more so we can do more, have enough energy to do more
MORE MORE MORE!!!!


we set our sights and focus so hard on that next human encounter so we do not have to pay attention to the alone

and yet
at the end of the day
after we have dropped in to our beds
exhausted physically and mentally and emotionally from too much
we still have our core hurts
we did not loose them in the crowds like we had hoped

what intrigues me is how many people out there have never really ever been alone
oo
they say they have
gosh
maybe they did not have a date for...... gosh...... a month
or haven't seen their spouse say.... for a week ( as is your case)
maybe they chose to go off on a retreat for... say..... a week but had a group waiting at the other end to refill the alone
never really sat with it
never really listened to it
never explored it
never embraced all it entails
never pushed the alone envelope

cause it is scary
i will be the first to admit that one
i will not pretend anything for the sake of readership or at the chance of being seen as weak or broken
alone IS scary

and that is ok

it is not so much that it is scary or confusing or that is evokes core hurts
or anything else

it is what we do with it and whether or not we can find peace in the alone
whether or not we learn and stretch and grow in the alone that matters

and Steve
just because you are alone
does NOT mean you or anyone else is unlovable, or unworthy, or incapable of love or any thing else

it simply means you are alone

right now
i am alone
no end in sight
and working on not worrying about it
i hear the hum of the refrigerator
the lingering rain drops from the storm that has past
the tickety tick tickety of my fingers on the key board as i type
and that is ok
so i listen deeper
there is the clock in the kitchen
softly whispering the passing of time
a click in the refrigerator as the thermostat turns off the fan
a passing car bout 1/4 mile away
and the rain drops
and i feel
reach deep inside
call out the core hurts
say hello
ask how they are doing
invite them to come and play
come out come out from where ever you are
and explore
and smile
cause they are just core hurts
and they made who i am today
and i like me


and no
i would prefer not to be alone
this is not what i envisioned my life to be

and yet
i have inner peace

yah
i may cry my self to sleep again tonight
or not
but i will not beat myself up for it in the morning
and i will not lie or pretend it did not happen just so i can look all brave and strong and big
and knowing and more enlightened and........
pfffft
that would be poppyc@ck

and Steve
something interesting i learned during my last marriage
i personally felt more lonely when i was married then now when i am actually alone

i personally would prefer to be alone than feel lonely in a pair or group ever again


hugs to you and hang in there
Hypatia

ooo a PS for you
my signature line
how does that go

To me, it sounds like your wife needs to get into a Co-Addicts group of her own like My husband is in. The spouse of the sexually addicted is most often a co-addict co-dependent with addictions of their own. My husband and I both went to this workshop called Bethesda, the one for the sexually addicted I went to (yeah a woman with the problem...NOT proud of that but it is what it is) and my husband went to the co-addicts group. It's expensive (like $1500 for the 4 day therapy) but it truly was comparable to a years worth of therapy in 4 compact days so well worth the expense and they are VERY flexible on payment plans. They talk about how "Our pickers are broken" meaning, that WE ALL pick the people we marry and that usually means that if WE are unhealthy the people that chose US as spouses are most likely unhealthy too. Spouses of Sex Addicts actually almost have a rougher time in recovery because the presenting problem didn't lie with THEIR behavior. My husband is really working on his co-dependency. Can't say we have arrived but I'm hear to say that if he wasn't working on his own stuff, I'd really be in a very dark place. I don't blame HIM for what I did but His unhealth did lend to MY deciding to have an affair. He actually has been able to see that BECAUSE of Bethesda. Anyway, wwww.bethesdaworkshops.org is the web site and it is a 12 step Sexual Addictions Therapy Workshop. Very intense and VERY revealing. A great start to anyone's healing and recovery program.

Dear EM,

Thanks for the posting. I am very frustrated with the lack of movement towrads a reconciliation. I don't know how much you read of my story, but I have been actively in recovery for quite a while... we are never cured, but I am learning to live with myself and working on my failings.

My W on the other hand, I cannot figure out. Penny seems to think that my W is coming around.. Yeah she calls me once in a while, but I call my parents and kids more than she calls me. Is that progress? I don't think so.. I don't think that I am that toxic.. or am I? I just think we need an INTENSE heart to heart weekend WITH a counselor to work this out... I care very deeply for my W... I love her.. I accpet her beauty and her flaws, and I believe our differences and our hurts can be worked through and managed in a much more caring fashion than in the past.

My W needs some US Marine COURAGE to step to the plate... Am I wrong?

An update,

My W has perhaps broken thru her pain and has recognized that she has actively excluded me from her life and emotions. Penny sees this as the break-thru we needed to begin to do some real healing as a couple.

I have been assigned a weekend getaway in the woods to get in touch with my deepest self. This should be a very moving and life defining weekend for me. I have never been away from the realities of modern life for an extended time ALONE. It sounds rather intimidating, but I am keeping an open mind.

After my sojourn we will perhaps begin couples work. It has been 8 months of waiting (which I am not good at)... Patience is one of my character defects. The fruits of the waiting, the learning and teachings of Penny and all of you here at SYMC will hopefully begin to ripen soon.

Bye for now... feel free to comment.

The well is my home and I feel comfortable in it... The top is not far away.

A weekend getaway? By yourself? With NO ONE else????

Good Lord, it sounds like heaven. (Err, as long as I can take mosquito repellant, that is...)

Then again, I know myself well enough to know that I spend time by myself sort of wastefully. I nap. And putter. And play on the computer. And read. It's delightfully restful, but I come out of it thinking I could have spent the time better.

quote:

I have been assigned a weekend getaway in the woods to get in touch with my deepest self.

oooo the envy Stevenkd
how i would love such a weekend

I trust you will have a wonderfilled weekend

Penny & Hypatia,

You both know we me too well to think that this is the weekend of my dreams. I hope to have the solitude I need next weekend to get a handle on my true self, to experience physical loneliness and tie that to emotional loneliness.

My quest is to determine if I am so unlovable that I cannot stand to be alone with my thoughts. I think not.... but we shall see. I hope that my journaling and sitting on a rock watching the St. Croix flow by will give me a perspective which I cannot gain in my usual environment.

So off I will go ... in search of the Holy Grail? I hope to have some spiritual enlightment during this time away.

Should you not hear from me, I will be camping at Wild River State Park.

Bye for now,
Steve

quote:

You both know we me too well to think that this is the weekend of my dreams.

well
Steven
yah see
I actually enjoy alone time
especially deeply immersed in nature
ooooo
sounds like heaven on earth to me
I am hoping that next summer i can take a week all to me while my dear little Xman is with is father for 6 weeks
looking back
that would have been the best thing for me this past 6 weeks visit
but
oh well
hind sight is 20/20

quote:

Should you not hear from me, I will be camping at Wild River State Park.

ENVY!!!!
aaaaah
you can do it Steven
it may take practice
the slowing down
the looking at the world thru new eyes
and listening with new ears
be patient with your self
and patient with nature
you may find that you rather enjoy it
or at least find peace in it

now here is a question for you Mr Stevenkd, before i FINALLY head off to bed

>>>>>>>aaaaaw - the little sleepy guy greamlin is gone <<<<<<<<







ok
all better


can you
in your own words define
ALONE
and
LONELY

and
in my opinion there are different ALONE's and LONELY's

can you tell me what they may be?


ok
I have had to spell check this far too many times
i must get me off to bed
the sun and the son rise early

Okay here we go.

Alone... an emotional state where I perceive only my environment around me and my response to it. I focus on clearing my thoughts, focusing on my breathing, stop the self talk and listen. I do this regularly as my HEALS exercise. It is easier to attain in relative quiet, but I can block things out even at work for short times.

Another alone. Being in a large group place and feeling unnoticed. Physically alone.

Lonely... much tougher. Lonely for me is not having another person to keep my inner child company. That person does not have to be my Wife. It can be any other human. What I crave to break the feeling of lonely is the emotional connection with someone else. Women are much better at this than men, hence my desire to befriend women (which ultimately leads me astray). I have developed several close relationships with men through this healing process (my sponsor particularly) and another casual acquaintance I met at a coffee shop with whom I talked for over 3 hours and have not seen him since. These relationships give me peace, knowing I am lovable and a deeply caring person.

Lonely... Isolated by fear of interaction. In the presence of others but unable to connect on any level. I have been here often in my life. I have improved dramatically over the past few months, but struggle at times. Doing HEALS helps me reconnect at those times to bring me out of my shell to offer of myself rather than expecting connection from others.

I must tell you that I made the stupid mistake of starting a profile on TRUE (a dating service) I realized it was not in my best interest and backed out of the program. It still created a profile for me which my wife discovered. Trauma to her again. This was my lonely side. The backing out was my value driven side but it caused damage nevertheless.

Please respond back to me again. I am learning as we go... you are an inspiration.

Bye the way.... I fell into the water at the bottom of the well

Steve

quote:

I must tell you that I made the stupid mistake of starting a profile on TRUE (a dating service) I realized it was not in my best interest and backed out of the program. It still created a profile for me which my wife discovered. Trauma to her again. This was my lonely side. The backing out was my value driven side but it caused damage nevertheless.

Please respond back to me again. I am learning as we go... you are an inspiration.

Bye the way.... I fell into the water at the bottom of the well

oooo shoot

well
Stevenkd
ummm............
that seems to me to have also been the impatient side of you acting out

what do you think?

Stevenkd
hugs to you as well as to your wife

hang in there
it will all work out for the best
how ever that may be
but it will

i will write more tomorrow
got me a head ache thisssssssss big
owie
my thinker is all thunk out

the hugger still works

and please Stevenkd
try to be gentle on yourself


patience young grasshopper

Good morning Hypatia,

Thanks for checking in last nite. I am fine this morning. My perspective on what occurred is much different than my W.

I was supposed to be spending last evening at the fair with my wife, but she found my history and went home. I leave my computer open for her to check history. Is that a good thing? It is honesty in a fashion.

I wish that we would talk about this. Healing is not a straight line. There will be bumps... I would like her to deal with them as that.. an opportunity to discuss boundaries, hurts and values.

Today I will be working all day... a good diversion.

I proposed to Penny that 3 of us (P,W and me) get together to forge a new beginning by means of a face to face meeting.

I have been so long in healing and wish for a significant breakthru... a chance to really begin reconciliation. I just don't see it coming. Loneliness?????

I will check in later here. Maybe you can tell me about your own dealings with lonely.

Steve

Check in time,

I have perhaps ruined any chance of reconciliation with my wife. Just when she started to turn the corner, I screwed up... I have been so focused on wanting us to start joint counseling, I have neglected me...

My wife may never see this since she does not post here anymore (not since March). I wish it had been different.. I wish she had sought more help to bring us closer. It was maybe never meant to be... I cannot express in words the sorrow I feel... It's like I am back to the first days here at SYMC.

In many ways, I am a much stronger person than I was in November thanks in large part to all of you, but I miss the connection with someone who has been so intregral a part of my being for the last 13+ years.

We may not be over yet, I dearly hope not.

From the bottom of a well wading
Steve

Oh Steven. I'm so sorry. I hope it's not over.