Okay.. I'm going to guess this is the only place where I should be posting these sorts of things. Correct me if I should put it somewhere else?!

For those of you who know and those who don't...a little history.

I was married for 22 yrs to a man who basically was a good man, a good provider and I did love him. He also was verbally/mentally abusive much of the time and after many years I slid into a deep depression, had an affair, tried to work on the marriage, but I guess I didn't have the tools, he didn't have the wherewithal to understand his behaviors and it eventually fell apart. I have 3 kids who were 14,12 & 10 at the time of my divorce.

About a year later I was involved in a long term relationship with a man I knew since I was 16, lost touch with and then he showed up in my world. The sorta shoulda, woulda, coulda guy that when he did come back I didn't see anything of the reality of who he is now, but who he was then and what I wanted him to be. That blindness led me down the path of living with a binge addict (mostly cocaine, pcp but would substitute alchohol in a pinch). It was 3 yrs of ignorance and bliss till that illusion came crashing down into the reality of living in chaos and hell took over. He had at least 1 ONS that I know of, could have had more I don't, I spent a year and a half on this board learning, fighting, hysterical and finally accepting the situation. I tried to work it out, I tried to make him see that he was self destructing as well as killing the relationship with his behaviors. I worked on me as much as I could, worried that my kids would be harmed or effected negatively, that I would be harmed negatively and finally walked away. I still hope one day he will hit bottom and change, but if that happens I'd rather not know. I'd rather that he finally find peace within himself and his life. If he ends up dying from his addictions, I'd rather not know that as well.

Now.. my kids are older one is married, the other a senior in high school and the youngest a sophomore. They are happy that I am out of the last relationship and okay with the divorce. They accept their father for who he is and though they don't like it and it has caused them much anger and heartache dealing with him, they still love him amazingly enough. At this point they want to see me with someone who is loving, accepting, giving, considerate and thoughtful. They are harsh judges I will admit, but when they decide to trust, they will be your biggest fan.

Since Joe (1Niceguy) and I met on this site we have supported each other through the worst of times and been happy for each other when we reached individual milestones. We did not ever cross the line of friendship while we were involved in our relationships that brought us here and were well past any reconciliation possibilities when we started conversing privately. What was built was a foundation of trust, friendship and understanding through that. What happened to our relationship was a complete surprise to both of us when we finally were open to acknowledging it's possibility.

So thank you to all here who have helped us on our respective journey as individuals and as a couple and continually help us through some difficult parts as well as rejoiced in the happiness we share. I hope that as we grow we will remain a part of the village and continue to use it's resources as well as give back whatever we are able to.

It is scary to me sometimes how intensely I feel for this man. It is still surprising to me when he comes through in ways that no one ever has...I've lived with a shoe waiting to drop for so many years that it's a constant wonder and joy that he does. There is so much work sometimes I feel I have to do in me to be the best I can...and I really want to be all he could dream for himself and we can can be for each other. Is that just the new romantic thing? or is that really possible, finally at this stage of my life!!? Jeesh, talk about slow learner here...

Part of me wants to walk slow and steady and the rest of me wants to rush into his arms and never leave. Part of me wishes I could have found this in my marriage and all of me knows we never had this intensity ever. We had love, don't get me wrong, but not this level of integrity, trust and groundedness, ever. I guess that is all at once comforting and frightening. We both know what we want, we both feel we're deserving of it, but I do know we are both still very wary of it too.

So Joe let me say I love you. I will work to be the best me I can. Both for me, for you and for us.

Loui

This message has been edited. Last edited by: LouiEJ*SYMC,

WONDERFUL!!!!

Best of everything to you Loui and Joe!

May your journey together be a wonderfilled one

xo
K

I'm fighting my initial inclination to just post 'Ditto' and leave it at that.

My background for those who don't know... I was married for 26 years, after dating for 8, starting in High School. I have 2 kids, DS20 in college and DD18 finishing HS. They both live with me, DS when he's not at school 80 miles away. I loved my wife and my family, and was content being married, but always hoping that we could redefine our relationship after the kids were grown. We had our ups and downs over the years and had drifted in different directions it seems, but I still loved her, and thought the feeling was mutual. Two years ago, I came home from work one evening to find her at the door with her coat on, and just being told "I'm moving out". This had been a constant threat from her over the previous couple of years, so I just said that I would like to talk about why and let her go. Over the next couple of weeks, my world fell apart when I found out that she had been having an A with my closest friend for the past 2 years, he had rented an apartment for her and was paying for her to D me. I found all this out and was served divorce papers within 20 minutes and attempted suicide shortly afterwards. She found me in the garage with the car running about 2 hours later. I think it was divine intervention, as I had locked all the doors, including the overhead garage doors, and neither of us had every carried a key to the house, but she just happened to have one that day. Several weeks after I was released from the hospital, I made the decision to fight for my marriage, and that's when I found SYMC. We sort of 'dated' for 5 or 6 weeks and she agreed that we could meet with a T for marriage counseling. When we got to the T (one that she had be seeing for IC), she first met with him alone and then I was called in. He proceeded to tell me that she had no intention of continuing the marriage, she was only being nice so that I wouldn't hate her. I had a preminition that it would go that way, and pulled the no contact letter out of my pocket and gave it to her there. We have had minimal contact since then and the D was final 6 month later. DS would have no contact with her for over a year, and now will only meet with her on neutral turf, without OM present. DD lived with me until after the D, then moved in with XW/OM when I was moving, and without discussing it with me. Eight months later, DD called and asked to move back with me, and has been here since.

Loui and I started on SYMC at about the same time, and posted to each other occassionally. I always appreciated her insight, and enjoyed her quirky sense of humor. Neither of us had the outcome that we had hoped for, but learned and grew as individuals along the way. We started talking on the phone, about the same time we both started dating others. I enjoyed the friendship that developed and the trust we seemed to instincively have with each other. I've since stopped giving dating advise. As difficult as it's been trying to maintain a long distance relationship, it's also a blessing that it's forced us to talk for hours on end about everything under the sun. We communicate at a level that I've never experienced before and that is reassuring to me. I felt that I had never really had an adult relationship before, and the last time I had dated was in high school, so I was pretty insecure about the whole prospect. I have to agree with Loui about the intensity being scary, but in a good way.

I also want to thank all here who have helped me get to this point in my life where I'm willing to risk loving again, and healed enought to accept love in return.
Making a better life, one day at a time!

Loui & niceguy,

I'll quote J, "Cool. Really cool."

We'd be happy to share notes anytime on the long-distance relationship thing! LOL!

HoFS

So you're out of the closet!

Congrats you two!

SB

quote:

So you're out of the closet!

Snort!... don't much like dark, enclosed places so.. YEAH!

Thanks guys. It's almost feels weird to be "happy". I'd forgotten what that was about. So used to the drama, hurt, elation/devestation rollercoaster ride that the slow, steadiness, trusting, thing feels foreign!! I remember my IC once telling me a long time ago if you meet someone and you experience that hot instantaneous attraction burn...run. Run far and run fast. Usually unhealthy, usually disasterous. She said look for the slow burn, the friendship one that comes slow and steady. Thats the healthier kind....

Loui

When HoFS read this to me over the phone last night, he started by saying, "Hey look! It's Loui and 1Niceguy's 'coming out' thread!"

And I did indeed say, "Cool! Really cool."

I'm very happy for you two. And now there are two threads over here where people can be hopelessly romantic about each other. I love that! Sleepy, Snow, Beavis, GS, and other couples, y'all are welcome to do the same.

I'm doing what I do when I read about HoFS and JustJ....smiling and giggling some.

quote:

this point in my life where I'm willing to risk loving again, and healed enought to accept love in return.

That makes me smile.

quote:

What was built was a foundation of trust, friendship and understanding through that.

Another smile part.

quote:

the slow, steadiness, trusting, thing feels foreign!!

and can lead to....

quote:

the slow burn, the friendship one that comes slow and steady. Thats the healthier kind....

Since we don't have a graemlin of one person hugging two people, this will have to do.

Okay.. now here's an interesting thing...

I get jealous...not in the traditional sense of the word though. Joe has female friends that he's developed during his long road to recovery. I trust him implicitely when he's with them. But.. I get sooo jealous that he is out with them and not me. Simply because he CAN'T be out with me and he CAN be out with them. (aside from the fact that any one of these women may like him more than just a friend, but I can't control what anyone thinks or feels). I am wrestling with this and I end up whining at him. I hate that I do this, I hate that I feel this way. I also don't know how to stop myself feeling this way either. I will not ask him to stop associating with them, I have no right and thats not fair. And we both know that if I was there, or he was here this would not even be an issue.

I know where it comes from. Insecurity on my part, low self esteem on my part, all the years exSO never told me where, who or what he was doing, exH who told me when I left him that men will only date me for my money(?) and I'll never find anyone better than him. The weight issue thats not in my body, but in my head and makes me insecure about myself. I know all these things are there in me...

Any suggestions on this?

Loui

oops!

lookk at the post below, i goofed this one

Loui
for what it's worth

Can you say for certain whether you are feeling
envy
or
jealousy?

there is a difference

subtle
yet different

And Joe tells you where he is going and who he s w/? You got a great guy there! I can honestly say that I would have a difficult time w/ this as well. I am so used to secrets and desception.

Thank him for being open and honest, tell him that this is hard for you and hug him.
and then
hug yourself
You deserve it

hugs to you

quote:

Originally posted by LouiEJ*SYMC:
Any suggestions on this?

Loui

HEALS!

HoFS

Hypatia...

quote:

Thank him for being open and honest, tell him that this is hard for you and hug him.

He knows how difficult this is for me, and yeah.. maybe envy is the better word. He tells me all the time he rathers it was me there. And I tell him all the time how much I wish it was me there.

HoF's.. So much easier said than done... I don't get angry at other people usually. I get angry at me. I forgive other people easier than I forgive me. Heals is much harder when it's for yourself than for someone else.

Loui

So met with my IC today and we talked about this issue a little. Her opinion was basically that it is a non issue between me and Joe. My insecurity and/or low self esteem issue aside...

If we look at this as a "relationship" issue the differences between my previous ones and this one shows that he has gained my trust and he won't take up on any offers even if one of the people he's with have feelings that border on more than just friends. She said my being upset about it is because I might feel someone is breaking the unwritten girls rule, you don't move in on someone else's guy. She said conversly if any other woman had feelings for Joe she would consider me the interloper who swooped in an took him before she might have been successful in doing so herself. She said it's okay to face that you are upset that any of those women are there and you're not. She said look at it this way, they get to dance with him for a short while more, you'll get to for a longtime thereafter.

As for my issues of self esteem and such, she said knowing me as she does, I am a "reactive" human being. I am not a leader. Which is very true... In the past I've reacted to both exH and exSO's personality/behaviors. The abuse, controlling/manipulations do wear away at self esteem and it takes awhile till the current relationship helps to build the self esteem as well as our own work at boundary keeping and communication skills.

So whaddya think of that?

Loui

I think it's funny to think of you as an interloper.

I don't see any interlopers at all in the situation. I see it like this....

Joe's dancing partners and friends have had opportunity and time for him to get to know them--in person, and with opportunity for all the "extras" that are available in person. You have had opportunity and time for him to get to know you--not in person, and without the opportunity for all the "extras" that were available to the others.

And you got his heart, Loui.

I don't think the problem is with you having Joe's heart. I think the problem might be due to the fact that he has yours. Scary? Yes, I imagine so. But you know Joe, and you know that you can trust him to be open and honest and caring each step of the way. You know that he's not just 1niceguy--he's a good guy too.

Hum. Dancing. The kind where you are in physical contact? The kind where you're out doing recreational things with a member of the opposite sex? The kind where there's alcohol available and imbibed? The kind where there's laughter and fun and affection?

Yoooooohoooooooo!!!!!

Of -course- you're getting jealous!! Jealousy is a completely natural response to a set of stimuli that your instincts tell you is a threat to the stability of your relationship with your spouse.

You can trust him all day and all night and that'll still make you jealous. Jealousy is the "Back off he's NOT AVAILABLE" emotion. It's not about trust.... and let me tell you this, too.

It's an excellent indicator.

NOT of whether someone is trustworthy or not -- that's a different set of instincts. No, it's an excellent indicator of the risks associated with a situation. And in this case, I think your jealousy is doing an excellent job of raising red flags all over the map.

So how's about you listen to it and talk to Joe about the real risks, rather than thinking there's something wrong with you?

Just as an idea.

quote:

Heals is much harder when it's for yourself than for someone else.

Heh. Yesssssss, and that makes it less worth doing why, exactly? (Sorry, channeling Penny there for a minute. I'm usually much more, uhm, nice. )

I'm far too tired to say anything intelligent.

But really - all I need to say is -


*Yeah, what J said.*

P

I might be too far behind the times....

Loui, did you and Joe go "exculsive"?

If yes, then I agree wholeheartedly with JustJ and Penny.

If no, how does dating without being exclusive affect you? Does it interfere with the growth and development of the relationship for you?

Loui, in your dating history, how long does it typically take for the dating part before you commit to being exclusive?

Okay..

LB - Yes, Joe and I are exclusive...I guess that it was official over New Years...though we sorta slid into it along with the fact that neither of us want to date anyone else.

My dating history being as irratic as it was when I was younger and weird after my D... I would say anywhere's from 2-6 months before committing to being exclusive.

J... as you well know in dealing w/long distance relationships there are concessions and there are boundaries. I told Joe I was fine with him going dancing w/other women. As long as HE was sure he wasn't going to overstep the boundary of friendship with any of them, regardless of what their intentions/hopes might be. He is the one that is responsible to me, not them. Is the behavior high risk? yes it is, but I guess that also depends on the person engaging in them. If it was exSO I'd be throwing huge hissyfits because his boundaries were never solidly kept and he consistantly engaged in high risk behaviors/putting himself into situations where they could happen. Joe, so far has kept to whatever requests I have made to make it less scary for me.

I will not ask him to stop doing something he enjoys. I will not ask him to stop associating with other women who he has made perfectly clear are just friends...even if it's one sided (on his end). If he was living here and he continued in that behavior, well then I might have different issues involved.

Am I jealous and envious, hell yes! But I also know perfectly well it is because of my insecurities about me. It is about my past and my ghosts. It is about my wants. That is why it is so hard to deal with. Joe and I have talked about the real risks, plenty. I have talked about knowing that the possibility and probability exists that someone he is out with likes him more than just a friend. And he and I have the agreement that I can call him during the evening and he calls me when he gets home...always. No matter how late.

Other than his living closer I really don't know how to resolve this within me. Other than heals and that sort of thing anyway...

Loui