We have been married for 18 years. Our marriage was often teetering on destruction, but we always seemed to pull it somewhat together.

Last April, we had a horrible argument, with our kids (12 & 8) in the house. It got physical...she kneed me & I hit her back. SHe called the police.

I waited for them to come take me away. They took her, instead, and she spent the night in jail. I was there the next day, when she had to go to court. I pained me to see her, in with those who "belonged" there.

I stayed away most of the day (she was with her friends). I came home later that evening. We talked. I apologized. I told her that I would do anything I could to help her. I had already told the prosecutor and judge that I was not afraid of her, which is why she was released.

Over the next few weeks, we started counseling, and things were a bit better. I went to all of the court & other meetings required of her. I even felt like we might have reached bottom, and things would get even better.

SIDEBAR
Since before we were married, I knew of one of her older friends. "L" had been there for her support, since her alcoholic father was verbally abusive to her through her childhood. L was a nice guy, and one of her sounding boards whenever I was a jacka$$ husband. He'd often tell her when she was wrong, or that I was just being a man...he'd help us through smaller problems.

BACK TO THE NOW
On May 15 of this year, I found an e-mail open on the PC. The words, "we made a life together" caught my eye, so I read further. L had gotten her pregnant (before I had met her), and there was an abortion.

I was livid. I thought I would be sick. I wanted to shake her awake, do all of the expected screaming, and be gone. For some reason, I didn't.

I went for a walk. I thought about all she was going through with the courts (at this time, still far from settled). I knew I couldn't throw this at her then, or she might implode.

We made our way through the court system, finally ending up with her on probation. Now's my time, right?

She started feeling poorly, and was diagnosed with some problems in her uterus. SHe would need surgery to take care of it. One of the effects of the problem was an almost conyinuous period.

So, I still said nothing. We continued our marriage counseling (started after the fight), and continued to get better together.

Two weeks ago, after her surgery, I found some books she'd hidden. Books about recovery from Childhood Sexual Abuse. She was in bad shape, yet, so I said nothing.

Last week, she called me at work, Irate. Had I been in her e-mail??? No. Well, someone accessed a file that's private.

I hadn't been in there, but I imagined what it was about. We talked a little bit, I promised her that I never looked into anything.

After that, I wrote her a letter outlining what I knew. I don't know if I was writing to her, or just for me. In it, I told her that I loved her without conditions, and that my feelings for her were stronger than ever. I meant, and still mean, this.

Tha night, I couldn't sleep. My being awake kept waking her, so I decided to go for it. I gave her the letter. She went to another room to read it. I was sure that we were done.

Instead, she came back and explained what had happened. Her father was horrible to her throughout her childhood. One of his friends had sexually assaulted her. L had been there for her. Their relationship turned sexual, pregnancy, abortion, etc.

They had tried to call each other each anniversary of the abortion, for support, whatever. But this past year, they decided to name & make a memorial for their baby.

All of this was part of her dealing with the abuse & emotions of the abortion.

L became her coach for the recovery process.

Here I am. I'm her husband. She has this other guy (not just any guy, this guy) as her coach through the most imprortant thing she has going on in her life. Every morning, there is a call to him. Several calls throughout the day.

She and I are having a great relationship now. We talk better. Sex has been frequent and great. She smile the other day. A smile I hadn't seen in so many years. It made me cry. She's off for the weekend with my sister, and I miss her terribly. My heart races when the phone rings, hoping it's her.

On the flipside, I'm feeling very jealous. Why not me? Why him? What can I do. Why do I find letters describing their intimate moments in her purse?

I know that the thing for me to do is to give what she wants. Let her heal.

But right now I'm feeling very insecure, or at least massively confused. I need someone to tell me I'm being selfish, Or I'm a fool for letting this go on with L. Or I'm doing the right thing for my wife. Or stop being a crybaby.

Sorry this was so long...it just kept coming.

Hello MSC
and welcome to SYMC
I am sorry for the circumstances that brought you here


I just saw that you have written another post
so
I am going to go and read it to see if there are more pieces to your story that would be of help

hugs to you and you family
Hypatia

Hello MSC!

Welcome to SYMC!

Soo... you know my first thought after reading was two fold... this "friend" you described. Is he a "coach"? or therapist or anything like that? or just a friend.

If he's a "coach", Therapist, etc.. he really shouldn't be working with her because the lines of friendship are too blurred.

If he's coaching her simply because he's a friend (and I say that term loosely because of what you've described)... then he cannot be objective in his work with her.

Also.. would you mind laying out a little bit of your W's state of mind prior to this outburst you describe? Has she been depressed? has she been secretive? Had she been behaving differently than usual?

I'm curious as to what drove her anger to do that. Oh and btw.. since she is the one who threw the first "punch" per se.. thats why she was the one who was taken away.

It sounds like you are living in a very complex situation here. Multilayered actually.

Loui

Perhaps a view of the thread "Wife's Recovery Coach..." in Abuse Addiction - and Recovery will clarify some things.

Thanks for your interest. I look forward to your input.

Sometimes I feel like an afterthought in her life. She has this "child" with this other guy. This, and the many issues surrounding it, seem to be the primary factors in her life.

I'm tired of wondering, every day, what lie I'm being fed. Either she's being honest with me, or if I'm being strung along, like an obedient puppy. Sometimes I feel like just that...I'm supposed to wag my tail, lick her face, but never poop on the rug. As long as I'm fed, I should be happy.

The problem is, I keep learning more and more bad stuff.

The last thing was just Friday night. Her phone had a text from "Mike". It said, "I want you to leave me alone." Another text was her forwarding it to Lonny, saying, "I guess I got my answer from him."

The first text came from her business line. She texted herself.

Saturday morning, her birthday, she could see that I was upset. After a few attempts to let it go for the day, I blew up. I told her what I saw. I called her a liar.

She said that she didn't know what it was all about. I got her phone to show her. Unfortunately, in the process of arguing, I tossed and broke her phone. So, we could read no messages.

She still maintained that she didn't know what was going on. "Maybe someone was in my phone...I don't know!" I told her that this was bull****. It's not very likely that my 8-year-old accidentally texted her a message from me, then forwarded it to anyone...never mind how unlikely it would be that it is him to whom it was forwarded.

She is lying to him about me, again. I assume that it's to get some sympathy or something...something to keep him helping her. This falls in line with her making up e-mails from her mother. Maybe I should feel good that she treats him like ****, too.

I started in on her about our parents. You see, she used to call my mother the worst names (not to her face...just yelling it at me). She called her a ***** once when my kids could hear. This was after mom had passed away. Neither of my kids knew my mom before her stroke, so this is what they'll remember.

Well, I tore into her, telling her that it took some kind of balls to say anything bad about my mother, considering what her parents turned out to be. I yelled that her mom was not welcome, and that I could strangle her father.

"I can't talk about that!!!" is what I got from her.

For the weekend, we kind of let things settle. We went to a party our kids had been looking forward to. Right now, she's sick. She's had a cold since Sunday. We also had a MONSTER virus infect our computer, so I spent most of Saturday and Sunday clearing that up. She had a major problem with her new business today...an IRS problem, that I helped her get through.

For twenty years, I feel like I've given up a lot for her. I've "taken" more than most men would, as far as accepting so much crap in our relationship. For many years, I kept hearing that I was the reason for our problems...I didn't listen; I didn't care enough; I lied to her; I was the whole problem. It got to the point that I believed it.

I let her scream at me. she got violent on many occasions...not just the day the police were called. She threatened to leave many times. She faked trying to kill herself (locked in the bathroom, claiming to be eating all of the motrin) more than once.

She turned me from the most mild mannered person I knew, into this guy who hit his wife.

All of this **** that I tolerated, because...I don't know why.

I was miserable. I would walk to my car in the morning wondering why I put up with whatever it was that happened that morning.

I do still love her, but question whether I can do it much longer. Since my discovery in May, I feel greater love for her, and am deeply saddened that even that may not be enough to keep us together.

After all of the years of "bad" love, I finally get it right...I can look at her again with absolute adoration in my eyes...I finally love her the way I should have all along, and it may all be for nothing.

I told her Sunday that I do love her...that I do want to stay together. But I said that she has to figure out what she's going to do to keep me, if that's what she wants. She says she does...I guess we'll see.

It'll be interesting to hear what she comes up with regarding the text messages. I have the feeling that I'll be very disappointed. My guess (fear) is that it'll be some sort of "I don't know" situation. As I said, that'll be another lie.

I don't know whether to cut bait now, or to try to find her some real help. I don't know what strength I have left.



This post is excerpted from an e-mail sent to a friend from here. It was sent on Monday. It's now late Tuesday, and she still has yet to explain. Maybe I'll just forget about it, eh?

I know that there are many gaps above, and I'd be happy(?) to fill in for any who can't connect all of the dots.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mcs1056,

Hey there, MCS. It's been a while.

And I guess what I would say is that you're finally coming to some tough realizations.

Who is this man who could become so enraged? Who is this man who could take so much and feel so small? Who indeed.

The power of intimacy in marriage does this, in one way or another, to every human who enters it. It grinds us exceedingly fine indeed, demands more of us than we ever thought possible. And now you face a difficult choice. You cannot control her. You cannot force her to get help.

All you can do is face your own demons, grow from that reckoning, and become aware of what you want and must have in a marriage. It is unbelievably difficult. If you decide not to, then the inevitable forces of married life will turn the crank even tighter no matter how hard you try to ignore all the things going on around you. At some point, the pressure will get turned up so high that you'll either flee or grow. I don't know which one you'll do yet. Do you?

Well, it's been three days, and she's said nothing about text messages. I'm going out of town for work starting Friday, and I'm betting she'll say nothing before then.

I'm going to let it ride while I'm gone, and see if she addresses it before I get back. If she doesn't, I'll figure something out while I'm away. But the homecoming will involve some sort of confrontation.

Last night/this morning, she got upset that I wasn't cuddling properly in bed, got up, mad, and went to the couch. In the past, I might have followed her, trying to make it better. Not this time. About two hours later, she comes back in, crying. It seems she had a nightmare about a tornado, and being unable to find our son.

I held her a bit, and told her that everyone was alright. I even went to check on the kids, but just couldn't provide much sympathy. I couldn't shake feeling like this was just another load of crap she made up to get sympathy.

I wonder now, how much of what she says she's going through is real? Is everything she says about being abused a lie? Is this why she wasn't afraid to have our kids with her dad? Is she building a pity party for herself, so that everyone will keep telling her how they love her?

It's like she feels that, if she's sick enough, or if she's afraid enough, or just plain pitiful enough, I'll come to her rescue and forget about anything bad. I've probably fed this, through years of kissing her ***, and it's a bit difficult for me to be a pr***, but I feel like I'm doing what I need to do, at least for now.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mcs1056,

I realized this morning that tomorrow is the anniversary date of her ab. I trying to give a bit here, because I know it will be a difficult day for her, with it being the first since she started her therapy for it.+

I told her that I remembered, and that I understood some of what it means to her. I told her that I was here, if she needed me, but I know she'll call him. I'm sure they'll have a few "moments."

All of this is probably playing into her being sick for the past week. Last year, she blamed it on depression over turning 40, and I didn't know any better at that time.

I don't know what to say but I just wanted to wish you well. What a hard thing to be dealing with so much hidden that you can't even tell what is real and what isn't. Would be like walking on quicksand. All the best.

Hi MCS. How's it going? Are you back from your work trip now? Hope things are better.

By the way, I don't recall what sort of therapy your wife is in. Can you remind me?

Well, I'm back, and I guess it's going OK.

She explained the text messages as something from the past that was brought up again. "If I could see the messages, I might be able to tell you exactly." It's a bit of crap, but I don't know what to do about it. We live near Detroit, so we're familiar with being able to get text messages from the carrier (ever heard of Kwame Kilpatrick?), but I don't know if it's worth it.

She's working on issues related to childhood sexual abuse. As posted elsewhere, there are strong indicators that the abuser was her father. D has denied this, but has gotten closer to saying it's him, lately.

This brings me to this past weekend...

During Sunday dinner, my daughter (12) started arguing with me about her homework. It started getting ugly (her saying that her inability to finish was my fault, and that I was being "stupid." She then stormed off and, after I told her not to, slammed her bedroom door, with the comment, "Just because you said not to!"

D's father, who had stayed for dinner, started telling me that I needed to calm down. "You don't want to do anything you'll regret later."

I just about leaped across the table and punched him. What I really did was excuse myself, and went out for a walk in the rain. When I returned, her dad was gone, and D came to me. She asked if I was OK, and what, exactly, was bothering me.

I told her what I'd felt like doing.

She gave me a hug, and said that she was sorry...that she was trying to work out that very issue herself. We talked about it a bit last night. It was a good night, forgetting the bits with the 12 yr old.

I wrote this somewhere else a while ago, and thought I'd paste it here...

I hold on to the knowledge that I love my wife, and that she loves me. No relationship is perfect, and trying to make ours so can only lead to failure.

I accept all that brought her to me.

quote:

...working on issues...

Hi MCS! That wasn't actually what I meant. (Serves me right for trying to type when I'm that sleepy...) I was more wondering what kind of approach her therapist is taking, what sort of therapist she has, stuff like that.

Anyway, I'm really glad you and your wife are able to talk about things like the interaction with your wife's dad. It's lot better than just dealing with it by yourself, eh?

Details of her therapy are unknown to me. She has some therapist with whom she's working through this.
What kind of therapist? I don't know.
What type of therapy? I don't know.
How often does she see him/her? I don't know.
Where are they in the process? I don't know.
What role does her ab dad play in her therapy? Some, but I don't really know.

She is healing from childhood sexual abuse. I've seen things of hers that say it was her father. A fact that she denied (to me) vehemently for quite some time. Lately, she' become (seemingly) more willing to admit that it was him, but she hasn't come out and said it, yet.

More details are on the BSA board here, if you're inclined to look. Otherwise, I don't know how far to go in this thread.

Huh. Huh huh huh.

That's.... odd. Usually therapy involves cost, medical insurance, and a diagnosis. I would think that you would at least know the person's name and credentials. Huh. Not quite sure what to do with that.

A) We each have accounts that are just ours...a little cash to spend on things we just want...or other stuff we need. We each know how much the other gets, but no details on spending. So, I've not seen any payment information.

B) There have been no claims filed for her therapy with our carrier. It's the only insurance we have, so I assume she's doing it out-of-pocket.

C) Diagnosis would be one of the easiest things to keep from me. I've never seen one.

THEREFORE...I know very little.

EXCEPT: It appears to be some sort of recovery group thing. I know she connected with one while she was dealing with her past abortion. I'd guess that someone there hooked her up with someone else. I also know that she has her ab dad keeping her on track, for those times she might want to give up. He was around when the bad stuff was happening, and she really didn't want to invlove anyone else (...even me). She says she just couldn't sare the horrid details with anyone.

While I'd really like to be able to help her through this, I do understand that she doesn't want me to know any of the really bad stuff (at least, yet). hrough my reading, I've learned that it's tough enough to deal with these things once, never mind having to share the info again later. There's also the fear (unfounded, in my case) that current loved ones will think less of the abused...like they deserved it somewhow.

I've told her, numerous times, that this would never be the case with me, but I understand her reluctance.

Regarding her being deceptive (outright lying?) with me, I just read where this isn't uncommon with victims. Some can tend to need the continual reinforcement of others caring, and they can go about getting this by making up situations where they are shown sympathy.

I don't like it, and I've told her that she can't use me in that way anymore, but I do see how it can happen.

quote:

I don't like it, and I've told her that she can't use me in that way anymore, but I do see how it can happen.

Telling her is a good start. How do you practice staying grounded enough in yourself to do that without ending up being snarly and frowny and full of resentment and things? And still staying true to your own solid principles?

In a lot of ways, I've grown since discovering about her.

Despite all of my posted insecurities, I really am more confident in myself. I know that I do deserve to be properly loved. I deserve to be in love (different from just loving someone).

I've learned that so many things that I had begun to believe were my fault, weren't, necessarily.

I've learned to be just what you asked...grounded in myself.

The fact that I DO tell her what I'm thinking and feeling (hell, even my being aware of what I feel was a big step!); the fact that I've told her that I can't control what she does, but I can control what I will accept (stolen from someone here, I believe); the fact that, through all of this, I have continued to be a good husband and father; all of these things allow me to uphold my principles.

I've thought a lot, lately, of my father. One thing he told me to never do was to demand respect. He told me that by being honorable I would command respect.

I continue to honor my wife. I continue to honor the vow I made to her. I continue to work at being the example my kids should be seeing. If I can continue like this, I will be upholding my principles.

Yeah, I have frowny days. But, I've told her that, while there WILL be some of them, they will be the exceptions. I can hold my head high (even on the days when I'm just pretending), in part because I am my father's son, but, mostly, because I am me.

And even when you're just pretending, you're practicing and will eventually get there even more of the time than you do now. That's really good. It's hard work, this being yourself in the midst of an intimate relationship with someone else. Really hard work. And worth it.

quote:

One thing he told me to never do was to demand respect. He told me that by being honorable I would command respect.

Wow, I really like that one.
I just wish someone would tell it to my dad

quote:

The fact that I DO tell her what I'm thinking and feeling

OK. Time for a deep breath. Frowny days aplenty.

On Tuesday, she will be travelling to Atlanta. They are going to have their second "remembrance day" (I don't know what else to call it) for their ab. This will be the second, as last year's was part of her work on letting go some of the guilt from having had an ab.

They do it now because his wife (who knows nothing of any of this) goes away with the kids for the week, and it's one year (give or take a few days) since the first. I guess they do something at a church down there, go to a movie and have dinner.

I maintain my game face, but have been very anxious. I trust her to be faithful to me, but am not really the "100% comfortable with it" that I have told her I am.

I hadn't realized that the timing would leave me alone while she's there. The kids will be on spring break next week, and we had arranged for them to stay with my sister for the week. I don't know if this is good, or bad...they won't see me if I do get frowny, but I also lose the nice distraction of having them with me.

I bought a bottle of scotch, and found a new guitar (it's SWEEEEET!) that I'll spend some time with. I'll probably work more than I should, too.

This trip is important to her. I love her, and want her to be able to do it.