Hi Everyone.

I'm new to this forum although I have been reading a lot here for months.

I discovered my H LTA almost a year ago. I was devastated; you all know what it feels like.

Anyway 3 weeks after D-day we separated. He started being very nasty to me and I went into N/C mode. This went on from 11/07 until 02/08.

In Feb I heard on the grapevine that he was filing so I had to know from the horse's mouth if this was true. He said no. I asked him how he was etc. I asked him why he stopped contact with our D all he was interested in was telling me how hurtful it was to him that she sent him a message asking him for a small favor that only he could deal with. I reminded him that he told her 2x that he would call her 6 weeks before this and he never but he didn't here this. He just went into a rant about her and our S who he was in contact and that he claims is using him. He asked me what I had been doing with myself and I said this and that I didn't contemplate any questions about me so I think I made a mess of that one. I told him to take care and hung up.

The next contact I had with him after that was late Mar I called him to tell him our dog had died talked about dog for 5mins then I said to him that was all I called for goodbye but he kept me on the phone asking how I was. He said he was having a rough time but wouldn't say more than this I later found out he had a fallen out with OW at this point he had been living with her for 5 mos. I was elated that he was away from her but 4 days later he was with her again. I had a moment of weakness and called him as soon as I heard he was back with her and declared my undying love for him STUPID WOMAN what was I thinking? The next couple of weeks he started coming around this went on for a few weeks he took me out for the day for my birthday he came round for diner another night (I had hidden agenda for this event, later) he took our D out a couple of times until I asked him what all this meant, he tells me he wants friendship as he thinks if we're friends it will be better for the kids. I tell him no that would only be better for him sorry no can do. To painful.

No more contact until end June, we had burst pipe at home I called him his work involves home improvements, he started shouting at me and I hung up. N/C since.

In June I discover there has been more OW. Also LT within my marriage and within his R with the one he now lives with although I don't know if they are still going on one of them is calling me (nuisance calls).

Is he a WH, MLCer or what?

I feel like I've done most things right to help save my marriage but nothing seems to be working and I am now about to give up. I guess I need to hear some encouragement as apposed to get rid of him and get on with it.

Any advice at this stage would be appreciated I'm desperate.
Feel free to ask any questions to make my situation more understandable.

Hi mash,

Sorry you're here, but welcome.

Weekends are a very slow....so please don't get discouraged. Could you please fill in some more details? How old are the two of you. How long have you been married? How old are the children? Has H followed through with the divorce? Is he providing financial support?

You also mentioned doing most things right to help save your marriage....could you talk about what sort of things you've been trying?

He's definitely a wayward husband and that may be complicated by all sorts of things like midlife crisis or any number of other things.

This is a very compassionate forum, so you are unlikely to get advice to just "get rid of him"....however realizing that you can't control what he does, will help you learn to focus on those things that are within your power.

What are you doing for you? I'm sure this has been a terrible year....are you taking care of yourself?

(((((((((((((mash)))))))))))))

Hi Star*fish

Both of us 44, Kids S22 D18.
H not done anything about D. Athough I asked him if he wanted one he answered with "do you if you do I'll give you one". He is giving me some M but not enough. He seems to forget about debts that we have, although I am paying towards these, this will come into account in the settelment, if all of this goes that far.

For me I have been re-designing my garden and doing the work myself. I have re-decorated our home, I have joined a gym I have been attending church services and counceling with priest and I've been having diner parties with family and friends.

For my marriage I mean I haven't been doing all the destructive things that people do I've kept my dignity through this whole process gave him his space to let him sort out his head, b/c he says his head is messed up. I haven't begged or put any preasure on him. Maybe I need a new approach.

I read in the LTA section think it was John someone said that everytime his W got in touch with him it just made him stay away longer so I try not to do anything that would make him stay away.

I have sent him a couple of letters from my lawyer asking him to start negotiation to split our assets but no responce. When he was around in Apr I asked him what he wanted from the marriage (assets) he said he wanted nothing I asked him to put that in writing but he did not this was the hidden agenda for the diner invitation I gave him I needed to see if he was serious about not wanting anything as I have asked him lots about this so now I know he isn,t walking away empty handed I can't fathem why he is dragging his heels. Oh and he did tell me at one point in Apr that he hated his life now and he missed the life he had but his actions say the opposite.
We live in a small area where everyone knows each other I havn't discussed anything with any of our friends.

Thanks for hugs star*fish I need them.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mash,

Good Morning Mash
an welcome to SYMC


I am terribly sorry for the circumstances that found you at this place in your life.
I am glad that you did find SYMC
It is a good and peaceful place where you will find many people like yourself along similar paths, at various legs of their life's journey as they work thru, learn and grow. We all hope that you and your husband take the knowledge you find here and transform it into the inner wisdom and strength to build a stronger and more balanced marriage despite any infidelity or bumps along the road in your marriage.

I am glad that you have been reading here. There is a wealth of information from many perspectives, from the betrayed spouse to the wandering spouse as well as some whose marriages have been touched by other issues. Each perspective as important and valuable as the next.

I have read thru what you have posted and have a few questions
first acronyms
i see a few i am not familiar with
would you please help me with
LTA
LT
MLC

thank you Mash
and more hugs


I am here thru the weekend
checking in periodically
hang in there

the villagers at SYMC are here with you and for you

xo
Hypatia

hypatia,

Good morning chere!

LT=long term
LTA=long term affair
MLC=midlife crisis

STAR*****!!!!!
Hey Honey!!


thank you dear

the clarifications will help me to read this thread

being blond IS an acquired skill, lol
and i am still working on it
a life long learning process

mash,

quote:

Both of us 44, Kids S22 D18.

Are your children living at home? What do they know about the affairs?

quote:

H not done anything about D. Athough I asked him if he wanted one he answered with "do you if you do I'll give you one".

Hmmm.....that's interesting. In reading through the contact you guys have had....it sounds like it's only happened when there's a crisis of some kind. NC works best when there really is no contact....and if the only contact ends up being negative....that can hurt more than it helps. Seems to me, you're going to have to decide which strategy you're going to use. If you guys end up in an argument every time there's contact....that isn't going to encourage reconciliation.

What did you do BEFORE no contact? How was no contact accomplished? There's a big difference between kicking someone out of the house, and ending contact to protect the love you have left for him. So could you talk a little bit about the state of your marriage before d-day....and what happened right after d-day?

quote:

He is giving me some M but not enough. He seems to forget about debts that we have, although I am paying towards these, this will come into account in the settelment, if all of this goes that far.

It sounds like you've gotten some legal advice. Are you moving forward with a divorce?

quote:

For me I have been re-designing my garden and doing the work myself. I have re-decorated our home, I have joined a gym I have been attending church services and counceling with priest and I've been having diner parties with family and friends.

This sounds fantastic.....good for you!

quote:

For my marriage I mean I haven't been doing all the destructive things that people do I've kept my dignity through this whole process gave him his space to let him sort out his head, b/c he says his head is messed up. I haven't begged or put any preasure on him. Maybe I need a new approach.

When I hear that word "space" I want to scream. It's part of the wayward dictionary....and it usually means "secrecy and time away from you to conduct an affair". There's nothing wrong with being dignified and calm.....so you get kudos from me on that. "Pressure" however, is not necessarily a bad thing.

quote:

I read in the LTA section think it was John someone said that everytime his W got in touch with him it just made him stay away longer so I try not to do anything that would make him stay away.

What if getting in touch with him (breaking contact) is the "thing" that keeps him away? (instead of what happens during contact) No contact has a real purpose, and that purpose is undermined by breaking it.

quote:

I have sent him a couple of letters from my lawyer asking him to start negotiation to split our assets but no responce. When he was around in Apr I asked him what he wanted from the marriage (assets) he said he wanted nothing I asked him to put that in writing but he did not this was the hidden agenda for the diner invitation I gave him I needed to see if he was serious about not wanting anything as I have asked him lots about this so now I know he isn,t walking away empty handed I can't fathem why he is dragging his heels. Oh and he did tell me at one point in Apr that he hated his life now and he missed the life he had but his actions say the opposite.

You seem confused about what you want to accomplish. If you want a divorce, then your actions make sense....but if you don't....then you may want to regroup and figure out how to send a clear message.

quote:

We live in a small area where everyone knows each other I havn't discussed anything with any of our friends.

So what do your friends think is going on?

mash....don't let all of these questions make you feel as though you're getting the third degree....it's just important to fill in all the details.

((((((((((((mash))))))))))))))

Star*fish

S has his own place with G/F and child 2, D lives at home with me. D was there at discovery so they know everything.

M has been pretty much like everyone else's with the usual ups & downs.
Around 5 years ago my niece 27 died (brain tumor). 6 months later my brother died of heart failure (massive blow as he was my rock) 1 week later my father died of heart failure brought on by my brothers death, 4 years ago we discover my brothers G/F stole his insurance this meant his kids, who, where his whole world, ended up with nothing (court attendances, PI involved etc to get some of the money back). The following year my sis has massive stroke leaving her housebound so there was a lot of trips away for me to tend to some of her needs.

This was around the time I thought there was something not quite right with H & me. I tried calling him one night and he didn't answer his phone. When he came home I queried this he just said he left his phone in the car. This became a pattern.
A little time passed I asked him to attend an event with me he said he couldn't b/c of work commitments I playfully tell him he is neglecting me so he comes with me then starts lavishing attention on me I wasn't complaining that but it was short lived.
He started becoming a bit distant from me I decided to talk to him about this he says there is no point in fixing problems as any attempt to do so would not last (his words). So I ask him dose he want to separate he says maybe it would be for the best I was surprised at this. We have another property in the neighborhood that was vacant so I tell him I'll move in there but he tells me he'll go, but doesn't.
We, carry on with our daily lives for the next 2 years as if nothing was wrong, still being intimate and loving towards each other but then he starts acting strange towards EVERYTHING. I put this down to his age and that we where about to become grandparents, or it could be his gambling addiction (I thought) I asked if he was losing a lot of money he tells me no but I didn't believe him. Our sex life was changing he was getting more and more distant and short tempered. I wait for him to bring up R talk it doesn't happen.

FF to July 07. H ends up in hospital for a week with leg injury. Home a week and he has to go out of town for work (new) he goes away M-F takes our S with him so not to alarming. Comes home on F about 6pm and has to go out 6.30 pm. M morning H & S are to go away for another M-F only they travel separately as H has to do a few things in our town first hmmm...
H comes home F again he has to go out. I still have no clue at this point. The next day we have BBQ for D's birthday. After everyone leaves we clear up and go to bed. I'd had a few glasses of wine and initiate a romantic night (it had been a while). He was a bit over excited and tells me its b/c it's been awhile since our last encounter. The next night we went to bed I try to initiate the romance again only this time he gets angry with me we get into a huge row I don't know how that happened H ends up sleeping on couch. The next day, D-day.
H comes home from work not looking very happy I hadn't seen him since the argument. I thought I'd wait until after diner to talk I knew D was going to see friends, Diner over and we get an unexpected visitor. H announces that he is going out. Showered and off he went. He came back at about 10.15pm. Plugged his phone in to charge and off he went to bed said nothing to me except a grumpy goodnight. I sat there for about an hour then I went to his phone.
I'd seen him messing around with it earlier. D comes home. I'm still looking at H's phone and then I found it, a pic mess in his sent box of HIM ready for sex, it had been sent while he had been working out of town. D sees it.
I angrily get him out of bed. He gets dressed and comes downstairs fully dressed including shoes and jacket. I stop him from getting out of house. I send D to bed but I later discovered she kept her door open so I know she's heard all of it. H & I up all night talking he tells me almost nothing true. At 7.30 he wants to go to work I tell him no but I need a break I tell him I need to go out for a while he calls me asking please don't do anything stupid as it wouldn't be fair to him.
I come back 2 hours later and we talk some more I ask him how long its been going on if he loves her he tells me maybe it's just lust, I ask him why he say he wasn't getting any attention from me I say sorry but I needed time to heel myself after all the trauma I'd had over the last few years, we talk some more and he was crying a lot. We go to bed about 7pm for some serious need sleep but we have sex (please don't judge I love my H deeply). We get up a few hours later and eat then we go back to bed and just hold each other all night.
H goes to work next day (also workaholic) home late I went to visit with friend to let him talk to D. I come home and want to talk to him he's too tired and we have a fight I leave.

I stay away for a few days until I get news of a death in family, nephew killed by SO. I can't cope I call H. He tells me he wants this break with us I come home anyway. Over the next 2 weeks I find out her name and address. I still don't know how he knows her but I suspect I do, so I tell him her name where she lives and place of work my suspicions correct. He tells me that's his friends G/F. 2 days later I get him up for work, cook him b/fast and kiss him off. I gave him 10mins grace out the door and I went to hers guess what. I call his cell 4x before I get an answer ask him where are you he says at work I tell him I'm parked at her house in front of his car he comes out I tell him I'll see him at home.
Lots of yelling all day I go to bed leaving him on couch by this time I'm totally emotionally exhausted with everything. The next day I come home early I call him asking him to come home he's the boss so he can but he didn't for 3 hours. He's home about 30mins and I ask him to leave. He sleeps in his car for 2 nights (other property still vacant) he goes to live with S for 3 weeks.
While living at S's we speak some he comes round we talk I tell him ILY we can work it out he says he needs time to fix his head he starts getting verbally abusive he doesn't contact D. I decide to go to visit with relatives out of town I tell him he can move back home with D.
I call S & D everyday from out of town I speak with H 4th day of being away b/c D is very upset, he is verbal with me and says b/c I didn't call him. I come home after a few weeks kids need me.
I move into our vacant property and a few weeks later D wants to come live with me she asks me to tell H, he's not happy but says we can exchange homes. I come home and discovered H had OW in my bed while D was living here with him. I called him on this he got angry with me N/C is established, this was 10/07 he stopped calling D also. So actually it wasn't even me that initiated N/C it was him. Oh dear, dose this mean he's done with me, thinking back I've made a real mess of this.
That was the last contact until 02/08.

The reason I went to lawyer was to protect myself against the possibility of D we can still divide assets without D although this would probably be more damaging to our sitch but I just feel stuck and worried about the debts (about 26k + mortgage).

Everyone knows what's going on with us even our D's friend knew OW's name. We come from small community. But I haven't discussed anything with anyone I feel exposed enough.

Star*fish you have given me a new angle thanks for that I really do want to save my M so any advice will be received gratefully.


Hi Hypatia thanks for the warm welcome.

Mash x

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mash,

mash,

It's too late to respond at length, but I'll try to write more in the morning. The one thing I'd like you to know is that you will recieve no judgements from me, and that you're safe to be honest here. You're not the first betrayed spouse to succumb to intimacy as a way to remain close to your wayward spouse. Besides....what happened....is what happened. The answers you're looking for now have to do with where to go from here.

Thanks for the details about d-day and separation. We have a saying around here....that fighting infidelity is "counter-intuitive". Unfortunately, most of us respond to it by making emotional and intuitive decisions that lead us away from reconciliation. We REact instead of act. Our gut helps us to sense when something's wrong....but in this case....it doesn't help us fix it. Instead, in our injured state....we go into fight or flight mode....a very primative protection strategy.

I think you went to NC prematurely. I also think it's the kind of separation that isn't conducive to recovery because it was the result of anger, rather than love. I believe it's the reason you're getting closer and closer to divorce.

Please take the time to read the articles and information on the main site. Before you take any more steps that will lead you down the path of divorce, I really think you need to backtrack and set the real foundation for reconciliation first and see what happens. You can always go to NC if you need to....but hopefully....not until you lay the proper groundwork for a productive separation that has a real purpose and strategy behind it.

hugs to you

mash,

quote:

S has his own place with G/F and child 2, D lives at home with me. D was there at discovery so they know everything.

So many people believe that unless children are young, that divorce doesn't affect them as badly....but it affects adult children. I'm glad they know the truth....and I hope they have a support system to help them cope with the difficulties. Have they been supportive of you....or just angry at dad?

quote:

M has been pretty much like everyone else's with the usual ups & downs.
Around 5 years ago my niece 27 died (brain tumor). 6 months later my brother died of heart failure (massive blow as he was my rock) 1 week later my father died of heart failure brought on by my brothers death, 4 years ago we discover my brothers G/F stole his insurance this meant his kids, who, where his whole world, ended up with nothing (court attendances, PI involved etc to get some of the money back). The following year my sis has massive stroke leaving her housebound so there was a lot of trips away for me to tend to some of her needs.

Oh my gosh mash!!! So many tragedies so close together!!! This must have been so hard on you....and I'm sure that it did put a strain on the marriage. Don't get me wrong....I'm not saying that your state of mind, or time away from home, in ANY way justifies your husband's actions. However, it does help to understand what vulnerabilities were in place at the time.

quote:

This was around the time I thought there was something not quite right with H & me.

It's so sad....but I've seen this dynamic hundreds of times....when a man and wife need each other the most....is when the marriage is sometimes super vulnerable to an affair. My pregnancies were the times my own H chose to go outside of the marriage.

quote:

I tried calling him one night and he didn't answer his phone. When he came home I queried this he just said he left his phone in the car. This became a pattern.

I know that pattern all too well.

quote:

A little time passed I asked him to attend an event with me he said he couldn't b/c of work commitments I playfully tell him he is neglecting me so he comes with me then starts lavishing attention on me I wasn't complaining that but it was short lived.
He started becoming a bit distant from me I decided to talk to him about this he says there is no point in fixing problems as any attempt to do so would not last (his words). So I ask him dose he want to separate he says maybe it would be for the best I was surprised at this. We have another property in the neighborhood that was vacant so I tell him I'll move in there but he tells me he'll go, but doesn't.

Okay....so why did you offer to move out at that time? This is what I mean by counter-intuitive. You may have "sensed" that your H needed "space" to make up his mind....but time apart is not what a troubled marriage needs. Despite the discomfort in the beginning....you need MORE time...not less.

quote:

We, carry on with our daily lives for the next 2 years as if nothing was wrong, still being intimate and loving towards each other but then he starts acting strange towards EVERYTHING. I put this down to his age and that we where about to become grandparents, or it could be his gambling addiction (I thought) I asked if he was losing a lot of money he tells me no but I didn't believe him. Our sex life was changing he was getting more and more distant and short tempered. I wait for him to bring up R talk it doesn't happen.

Again....intuitively, you wait and hope he'll bring something up. You don't see all these warning signs and redflags and suggest counseling, or confront these issues for two years? Don't feel badly....I'm not criticizing you....because this is what many of us intuitively do....especially if we're uncomfortable with conflict or afraid of what we'll find. It's a very common thing.

quote:

FF to July 07. H ends up in hospital for a week with leg injury. Home a week and he has to go out of town for work (new) he goes away M-F takes our S with him so not to alarming. Comes home on F about 6pm and has to go out 6.30 pm. M morning H & S are to go away for another M-F only they travel separately as H has to do a few things in our town first hmmm...
H comes home F again he has to go out. I still have no clue at this point. The next day we have BBQ for D's birthday. After everyone leaves we clear up and go to bed. I'd had a few glasses of wine and initiate a romantic night (it had been a while). He was a bit over excited and tells me its b/c it's been awhile since our last encounter. The next night we went to bed I try to initiate the romance again only this time he gets angry with me we get into a huge row I don't know how that happened H ends up sleeping on couch. The next day, D-day.

In retrospect, I'm sure you recognize how many redflags you missed. Again....join the club. It's not something anybody wants to believe.

quote:

H comes home from work not looking very happy I hadn't seen him since the argument. I thought I'd wait until after diner to talk I knew D was going to see friends, Diner over and we get an unexpected visitor. H announces that he is going out. Showered and off he went. He came back at about 10.15pm. Plugged his phone in to charge and off he went to bed said nothing to me except a grumpy goodnight. I sat there for about an hour then I went to his phone.
I'd seen him messing around with it earlier. D comes home. I'm still looking at H's phone and then I found it, a pic mess in his sent box of HIM ready for sex, it had been sent while he had been working out of town. D sees it.

:sad:

quote:

I angrily get him out of bed. He gets dressed and comes downstairs fully dressed including shoes and jacket. I stop him from getting out of house. I send D to bed but I later discovered she kept her door open so I know she's heard all of it. H & I up all night talking he tells me almost nothing true. At 7.30 he wants to go to work I tell him no but I need a break I tell him I need to go out for a while he calls me asking please don't do anything stupid as it wouldn't be fair to him.

When I picture this scenario....it seems much more angry and emotionally exhausting than you're fully expressing here, right? Did he have reason to believe you might hurt yourself? I'm so sorry to hear that your daughter witnessed this stuff first hand....it's no wonder she and her dad are having R issues too. Has she gotten any counseling?

quote:

I come back 2 hours later and we talk some more I ask him how long its been going on if he loves her he tells me maybe it's just lust, I ask him why he say he wasn't getting any attention from me I say sorry but I needed time to heel myself after all the trauma I'd had over the last few years, we talk some more and he was crying a lot. We go to bed about 7pm for some serious need sleep but we have sex (please don't judge I love my H deeply). We get up a few hours later and eat then we go back to bed and just hold each other all night.

One of my worries for you in this scenario was for your health....stds...did you get ever get tested? Otherwise I understand the need for intimacy.

quote:

H goes to work next day (also workaholic) home late I went to visit with friend to let him talk to D. I come home and want to talk to him he's too tired and we have a fight I leave.

quote:

I stay away for a few days until I get news of a death in family, nephew killed by SO.

yikes!!! no rest from tragedy!

quote:

I can't cope I call H. He tells me he wants this break with us I come home anyway. Over the next 2 weeks I find out her name and address. I still don't know how he knows her but I suspect I do, so I tell him her name where she lives and place of work my suspicions correct. He tells me that's his friends G/F. 2 days later I get him up for work, cook him b/fast and kiss him off. I gave him 10mins grace out the door and I went to hers guess what. I call his cell 4x before I get an answer ask him where are you he says at work I tell him I'm parked at her house in front of his car he comes out I tell him I'll see him at home.

Lots of yelling all day I go to bed leaving him on couch by this time I'm totally emotionally exhausted with everything. The next day I come home early I call him asking him to come home he's the boss so he can but he didn't for 3 hours. He's home about 30mins and I ask him to leave. He sleeps in his car for 2 nights (other property still vacant) he goes to live with S for 3 weeks.

Okay....almost all d-days involve lots of drama, anger, and threats. It sounds like yours, sadly, was no exception. So up until this point....the raw knee-jerk reactions are passionate, destructive and predictable.

quote:

While living at S's we speak some he comes round we talk I tell him ILY we can work it out he says he needs time to fix his head he starts getting verbally abusive he doesn't contact D. I decide to go to visit with relatives out of town I tell him he can move back home with D.

Here is his "fight" and your "flight" responses kicking in. They both serve a primitive form of "protection", but you can see that they don't protect the marriage....thats the counter-intuitive part where you begin to understand that protecting the marriage often means facing your own fears, but in a state of mind where you're capable of logical and compassionate thought. Again, when you're a wounded animal though....it's hard to see straight.

quote:

I call S & D everyday from out of town I speak with H 4th day of being away b/c D is very upset, he is verbal with me and says b/c I didn't call him. I come home after a few weeks kids need me.
I move into our vacant property and a few weeks later D wants to come live with me she asks me to tell H, he's not happy but says we can exchange homes.

Now this is where things seem to really go awry as far as potential for recovery. However, since I wasn't there for the verbal abuse....you may have had no choice....I just don't know. Without real knowledge of how bad it was, I'm only commenting on the fact that this is a pivotal point where you can't fight for your marriage or your husband without being with him....AND....you two leave each other with such bad feelings, that separation only continues the pain.

quote:

I come home and discovered H had OW in my bed while D was living here with him. I called him on this he got angry with me N/C is established, this was 10/07 he stopped calling D also. So actually it wasn't even me that initiated N/C it was him. Oh dear, dose this mean he's done with me, thinking back I've made a real mess of this.

Whoever is responsible for the no contact idea....it was done in anger. That isn't how I define (protection phase) no contact (as it relates to marital recovery)....because ending contact for the purpose of protecting the marriage is not a threat or ultimatum. It's not fear driven....it' not vengeful....or punitive. It's not for the purpose of making him miss you, or to make him change, beg or follow. It isn't done in haste. It IS part of bigger plan. What you describe (in this context) is withdrawal....and withdrawal helps to create more withdrawal, misunderstanding, anger, confusion.

quote:

That was the last contact until 02/08.

The reason I went to lawyer was to protect myself against the possibility of D we can still divide assets without D although this would probably be more damaging to our sitch but I just feel stuck and worried about the debts (about 26k + mortgage).

I understand this fear....and only you can decide whether your situation is dire enough financially, that you don't have the time or energy to attempt a different plan. But if you do....there are people (and I recommend Penny) who are willing to help you lay a good foundation that will benefit you, no matter what option you choose.

quote:

Everyone knows what's going on with us even our D's friend knew OW's name. We come from small community. But I haven't discussed anything with anyone I feel exposed enough.

Ah....here's another of those counter-intuitive moments. YOU feel exposed? What did you do? Yes, it exposes your pain and nobody wants to feel the pity of others....but pity is sometimes a small price to pay to put pressure on the affair. One of the things needed for affairs to thrive is secrecy. If each of us had to face the people we know and love each time we chose badly....we'd all make much better choices. Exposure creates accountability....and accountability creates growth and conscience. You already feel vulnerable and hurt....I get that....but when you consider that the thing really benefitting from your fear....is the affair....then you might want to reconsider that tack. Make a promise to yourself to be honest and truthful when asked about this situation. You can still be dignified without protecting your husband and his mistress from censure. The ramifications of what they are doing is what will help them see the ugliness of it. Who do you know that has influence on your husband? Someone he respects who also supports the marriage? Think about asking that person to help you.

quote:

Star*fish you have given me a new angle thanks for that I really do want to save my M so any advice will be received gratefully.

Here's something else to consider. Before this is over....you may need to go to protection phase/no contact....especially if he becomes abusive. However, I'd like to see you resume contact and first lay the foundation for your husband to see the marriage as an attractive alternative to the ugly life he is leading now. Talk to your children and before you end contact again....show him for a short time....what it might be like to be a family once again. Ask him to go to counseling with you. Tell him that you're not ready to divorce. If he rejects these overatures and is abusive, you can always go back to no contact....but this time....with purpose and without anger so that the time you spend apart also has purpose.

Again, I recommend that you get help with a good pro-marriage counselor like Penny to devise such a plan.

I remember when I first found a marriage forum and people couldn't believe I still wanted my husband back. But when I decided to try to recover my marriage, I thought "I have today, tommorow and every day to end my marriage. I only have a small window to try and save it. I think I'll try that FIRST."

(((((((((mash))))))))))

blessings to you!!

No matter what....you're going to be okay, chere.

*editted for typos and grammar

This message has been edited. Last edited by: star*fish,

Star*Fish

Thank you for the time and effort you have given me I really appreciate it you have given me a new insight. I need a little time to think about everything you have said and I will post again later.

Thanks again Mash xo

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mash,

Star*fish

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you.


"So many people believe that unless children are young, that divorce doesn't affect them as badly....but it affects adult children. I'm glad they know the truth....and I hope they have a support system to help them cope with the difficulties. Have they been supportive of you....or just angry at dad? "
They have been giving me a lot of support but are also angry at dad. S works with dad at w/e's but they haven't discussed OW or dads sitch at all. H pops into his place during week so see our grandchild, but only for 10mins here and there. D is very anger with dad because he is making no effort at all with her. She won't talk her feelings to me she has a friend in a similar position.

"Okay....so why did you offer to move out at that time? This is what I mean by counter-intuitive. You may have "sensed" that your H needed "space" to make up his mind....but time apart is not what a troubled marriage needs. Despite the discomfort in the beginning....you need MORE time...not less."
I realize this now but at the time I didn't know he was in the throws of an A.. And I didn't think it would come to this anyway as we've had this talk before.. I just thought it was his age its very hard trying to get him to open up

Again....intuitively, you wait and hope he'll bring something up....you don't see all these warning signs and redflags and suggest counseling, or confront these issues for two years? Don't feel badly....I'm not criticizing you....because this is what many of us intuitively do....especially if we're uncomfortable with conflict or afraid of what we'll find. It's a very common thing.

Yes, every time something need to be discussed it was always me that brought it up I just needed him to do it this time.

In retrospect, I'm sure recognize how many redflags you missed. Again....join the club. It's not something anybody wants to believe.
I know I feel like such an idiot.

When I picture this scenario....it seems much more angry and emotionally exhausting than you're fully expressing here, right?

Not really Star thinking back I am surprised at how I handled it.

Did he have reason to believe you might hurt yourself?
No not at all afterwards I thought he was trying to put ideas into my head I just told him not to flatter himself.

One of my worries for you in this scenario was for your health....stds...did you get ever get tested? Otherwise I understand the need for intimacy.
I got myself checked I'm ok thanks for concern.

Now this is where things seem to really go awry as far as potential for recovery. However, since I wasn't on there for the verbal abuse....you may have had no choice....I just don't know. Without real knowledge of how bad it was, I'm only commenting on the fact that this is a pivotal point where you can't fight for your marriage or your husband without being with him....AND....you two leave each other with such bad feelings that separation only continues the pain.

The verbal abuse I was getting from him was very hurtful and it was making me hate him. Looking back I think it was more to do with his guilt.

What you describe (in this context) is withdrawal....and withdrawal helps to create more withdrawal, misunderstanding, anger, confusion.

I wish I had found you sooner Star I've been doing more damage than good. The debts that we have can be held down by me for the time being.
Exposure to all of this made me hide myself away shopping at night so I wouldn't run into anyone etc...

Who do you know that has influence on your husband? Someone he respects who also supports the marriage? Think about asking that person to help you.
Here's something else to consider. Before this is over....you may need to go to no contact....especially if he become abusive. However, I'd like to see you resume contact and first lay the foundation for your husband to see the marriage as an attractive alternative to the ugly life he is leading now. Talk to your children and before you end contact again....show him for a short time....what it might be like to be a family once again. Ask him to go to counseling with you. Tell him that you're not ready to divorce. If he rejects these overatures and is abusive, you can always go back to no contact....but this time....with purpose and without anger so that the time you spend apart also has purpose.
Again, I recommend that you get help with a good pro-marriage counselor like Penny to devise such a plan.
I remember when I first found a marriage forum and people couldn't believe I still wanted my husband back. But when I decided to try to recovery my marriage I thought "I have today, tommorow and every day to end my marriage. I only have a small window to try and save it. I think I'll try that FIRST."

Star this has been great advice you have given me and you have opened my eyes and given me hope thank you so much.
I would love to hire Penny but b/c of my strong accent I'm afraid things may get lost in translation. Is there any other way to communicate with her?

Star I have just found out that H has contacted a real estate down south I don't know what this means. I feel I'm going into panic mode. What is going on with him? I don't understand all the things he has been doing since all this began.

Take care Mash

Hi mash,

quote:

Star this has been great advice you have given me and you have opened my eyes and given me hope thank you so much.
I would love to hire Penny but b/c of my strong accent I'm afraid things may get lost in translation. Is there any other way to communicate with her?

Well, I have a pretty strong accent too....so she's pretty good at accents. But she may have some other alternatives. Why don't you start a thread addressed to her and ask....she answers requests here on the forum.

quote:

Star I have just found out that H has contacted a real estate down south I don't know what this means. I feel I'm going into panic mode. What is going on with him? I don't understand all the things he has been doing since all this began.

It sounds to me like you are super involved in checking up on him. That may not be healthy for you right now. You can't control what he does, and without all the information.....sometimes this does more harm than good. It's already sending you in a panic.

Hi Everyone

I'm about to try to re-establish contact with my H, I have no idea what to say to him. The OPPERTUNITY is going to be in 1 hours time I don't know when I will get the chance to speak to him again so I have to take this chance I am in a good frame of mind at the moment I am calm and am strong enough not to let anything ruin my chances of staying in contact with him for now. Please help me by giving me ideas of how to handle this situation.

How did it go Mash?

hugs to you
Hypatia

Oh Hypatia it was great and I feel totally elated. If it hadn't been for Star*fish and SYMC I would never have went near him.

I made out it was a chance meeting I had help from DS as to where H was going to be etc.

I told him I wanted to save our marriage and told him there was a way back for him. I also told him if this was something that he wouldn't consider then I would respect his wish. I asked him if he was happy doing whatever it was he was doing he said he wasn't happy at all.

I went on to tell him somethings that had been going on with our family all the good things I spoke about our grandchild and I laughed when telling him all the funny things. I haven't laughed like that for a long time. It felt good. But I could see the sadness in his face and he expressed this with tears although he tried to hide his tears I saw them.

I didn't stay too long I said I had somewhere to go and we went to the door and we kissed not a full blown smootch or anything just a kiss and hug although he hugged me so tight and it stirred up all the old feelings I had for him that I thought where gone but I was so pleased to still be having these feelings for him. We have made arangements to meet up again in a few days.

I feel so good tonight.

Hugs back to you.

I am so happy for you Mash
that is such wonderfilled news you shared with us

keep up the great work
and keep up your courage

xo
H

Hey Everyone

Just thought I'd up date on the latest.

Last Sunday when I saw my H we agreed to see each other in a few days, well when Wednesday came I was feeling really down so I didn't go near him (its gonna have to be me that re-connects us he ain't gonna do a thing and thats ok for now). Wednesday into Thursday was aniversary of D-Day I was at an all time low and didn't want to spoil what we had from Sunday.

Thursday evening I called him he didn't answer I left a message on his VM, he didn't answer.

I sat and thought about everything from Sunday and was beginning to think I had imagined all the tears he cried, all the appologies he gave me, the kisses and the hugs. Then I started to soften again I mean I KNEW he would have been with HER I can't expect miricles YET.

So this morning I made the call again he answered straight away. I told him there was someone at the door yesterday and gave him the persons phone number so he could call them then I asked how are you he said he's had a bad week and tells me he is taking AD's I nearly fell off my chair. This big strong macho man reduced to this I felt so sorry for him. I heard all the drilling and hammering in the background so I told him I would let him get back to work but before I went I asked him did he want to do something this W/E he says yes not the usual response of I DON'T KNOW so I say goodbye and he says he'll call me. So heres hoping.

DS was with me when I made the call to H last night so he called tonight to ask if his dad called back last night I said no but that I had spoke to him this morning so he was ok with that. Here is a little delema DS has had a real hard time with all of this and is angry at H although I have encouraged him to stick with H as he is still his dad and I thought it would be better for the sitch no matter what happens this was very hard for me but I was thinking LT try to minimise the damage H was doing to our family I have tried to keep H and DD together but H kept messing it up and I know he is hurting big time b/c of this I have to put that on the shelf for now.

Sorry got side-tracked there, the dilema is I've been completely honest and up front with kids filling them in with everything they ask about the sitch am I giving them too much information should I hold back a little please advise.

Mash.

Good Morning Mash

quote:

the dilema is I've been completely honest and up front with kids filling them in with everything they ask about the sitch am I giving them too much information should I hold back a little please advise.

well that is a dilemma
Your children are older
almost real adults
ready to go out on their own and find their own way
and hopefully we as their parents have taught them enough. modeled well enough so they do not repeat our mistakes

Mash, only you know how much TRUTH your children can handle
as long as you are not dumping your emotional garbage on them
as long as you are not sharing sordid details
as long as you are not sharing information in order to win them over to your side
the only side they should be asked to take (if at all) is that of the entire family and the marriage
as long as you are there for them and with them for their confusion.fear.anger
teaching them to work thru it
action
not reaction

and keep in mind the need to know policy

quote:

as long as you are there for them and with them for their confusion.fear.anger
teaching them to work thru it

As parents, this is our biggest job. Not just participating in the days event, but helping them translate it.

I don't know how much it too much information - the key to a child's stability is really how you interpret these events for them. Has your H been demonized?

Children (no matter what age) always teach me something. I used to think it was supposed to be the other way around usually. When I've acted in my children's best interest....I come away a better person.

It's all so hard...isn't it? Such a responsibility your H has placed on you.
GS