Oh Le, I am so very sorry to hear of this tragedy. I wish there were words to comfort you, your daughter, and this young man's family. Bless all their, (and your) friends for being there, and bless you and all who are touched by this.

I will keep you all in my prayers.

Hey Le, I'm very sorry about what happened.

Good Morning Le

How are you and your family doing today?

sending more hugs dearest

xo
Hypatia

I am so thankful for all of you... you don't know how many times I just read this thread for comfort.

There are so many that are going to need continued prayers.

I wish you all could have witnessed the compassion that his parents displayed. They are remarkable people. My d was blessed to have him and them in her life.

I love all ya'll so much.

I wish I could tell ya how we are but honestly I just don't know.

Le

Oh, Le. I don't know what to say. My positive thoughts and prayers go out to your daughter, you, the friends and family, and everyone else affected by this horrible tragedy.

Carol!!!

Hugs to you!!!!

So it's been over a week..... everyone keeps asking how we are and how Kallie is, is the answer I don't know OK because it's as honest as I can get.

She's not really sleeping much and still just seems lost. My goals for the week is to find a grief counselor stop hovering like a crazed woman and figure out how to do this.

You know we've been treating her like she's going to break bc she looks and seems so broken but when do we start trying to be normal? Which by the way is a word you DO NOT use in her presence b/c she will scream at you... "nothing is going to be normal again."

I really could use some input when do I/we start expecting things from her and I mean like picking up after herself, doing her own laundry, this she did before the accident? I hope I don't sound heartless I just don't know when I or if I should start or stop doing things for her. I hope this makes sense.

Le

Poor baby...I know it looks to her like it will never be normal again. It will be different, not the same, but you know, in time, she will heal, just like everyone here has to heal eventually. I'm sure she can't see that now. Heck, I can't even see it now.

I think grief counseling is an EXCELLENT idea Le, as long as she is agreeable and I hope she will be.

I'm thinking of you all every day...

Hey sweety
more hugs


no
you do not sound heartless at all
really

I think it is a great idea to look into grief counseling for your daughter.

and the hovering
that is so hard NOT to do when the ones we love and care about are lost and in pain.
What strategies have you thought about so far?

I suppose as far as the getting back to normal is concerned
you could start this by getting back into YOUR routine
modeling
with compassion
with out saying the word NORMAL


Your daughter's and your family's world did change
forever and always
how you all look at the world as well as the people you love and care for
and most importantly
yourself

the sense of loss may never go away
but
how the loss is dealt with can get more and more manageable with the passage of time

More hugs to you and your family, Le
and
best of luck finding the very best grief counselor

Hyaptia

quote:

What strategies have you thought about so far?

This is where I need help. Life before accident. D was responsible for her own stuff, cell phone bill, she paid rent or cleaned my house for rent (in an effort to teach her some responsibility),cleaning her room, picking up after herself, doing her laundry, taking care of the puppy she had to have.....

Now I clean her room, I pick up after her, we aren't asking her for $$ b/c she hasn't been working, I have done her laundry, picked up behind her.... see where I am going with this..

I don't know if I should be gently getting her back to the routine we knew or taking care of her. The material things are all I can do that I can see results, if that sounds crazy tell me. But we do despatately need routine, maybe not normal but something that is familiar.

As for the hovering thing. I am trying to stay out of her room unless she asked me to come out there and let me tell ya that IS HARD!.

Thanks for the hugs.....

You guys are the best.
Le

what if
you were to use a laundry basket
at the end of the day
pick up her stuff that is laying around
put it in the basket
and set it out side her door

and
what if
you were to back off on the frequency of laundry
over time backing it off more and more
and doing less and less
whittle it back to the most essential/basic/need clothing

what do you think?
would she put on dirty clothes?

Praying for all of you...

As far as gently easing back to a routine... I agree... but not quite yet... keep your eyes open for signs of willingness... or stuckness... still too new, I think.

Bless you and your families, Le.

H,

quote:

would she put on dirty clothes?

Honestly she would probably just go buy something new. That child has more clothes than most department stores and she has expendable cash b/c bless her heart her "rent" isn't much and neither is her cell bill. Some how we pay for all the bells and whistles and she's paying for the monthly basic charge. Not sure quiet how that happened.

I just don't know when is when and when is too soon.... I am going to talk to the counselor too. I have no earthly idea what I am doing here.

Another example is there are kids here constantly til 4-5 am, which is good b/c she can't sleep however she's starting back to work and is going to have to have rest. She's almost 20 is it my place to say to her that they need to go home so she can sleep.

You know she stayed up late and stuff before the accident but when she slept she rested, now not so much.

Am I just trying to hard to control this monster of a thing that has to do it's own thing?

Le

Her world has been rocked upside down.

I think I would sit down and have a gentle talk with her. Tell her that since she will be going back to work, it might be a good idea to try and rest as much as possible. Tell her that sometimes, getting back into a "routine" helps take your mind off of things..Laundry, etc...things that are mundane. I think Spidey says this as well, when we are doing things like that, our mind tends to go to what we are doing and not what we are dwelling on.

If she is having trouble sleeping, maybe a trip to see your family physician is in order.

All those things we put on this site, trying to eat, staying hydrated, taking care of yourself...well this applies to DDK20 as well since we have all said it before, what we've experienced here is probably the closest thing to death there is. Mourning a spouse.

You are being such a loving mother. I know if you could just sit with her, approach her with love and concern, it may be what she needs.

You know, I can't at my age figure out how to stop mourning. I'm sure that baby is blown away. Death to us is something at our age, that most of us have experienced. At her age, well I can only imagine how it feels to realize that someone she dearly loved is gone. Her life is stretching years in front of her...I'm sure that is so hard to comprehend.

Big hugs to you all.

Le..

I remember after my cousin was killed... he was 18... well it took a year before there was any semblence of normalcy in anyone's lives.

BUT..

that doesn't mean there was enabling either.

Are you going to the grief counselor with your daughter? or is it just her?

I might suggest that you go together that first visit and ask.. in front of your daughter... these things. The same way you put it here.. about what she was doing beforehand, what you are doing now, what she's not doing. And how you feel about it..and see what he suggests.

I would tend to agree with Hypatia right now about changing things. Very small inperceptable steps in order for you change your behavior, rather than trying to get her to change hers.

Stop hovering and going into her room so often.
Stop going in and picking up so often.
Stop doing the laundry so often.

I think the, if you do go in and pick up the laundry, putting the basket near her door is an excellent hint. Whether she takes up on it or not is her choice. And whether she wears dirty clothes is her choice.

If it were me and my daugher.. I probably would tell her that you will continue to pay the cell phone till the end of this month. Then it will go back to the way it was. And I wouldnt' mention it as anything to do with dealing with grief, or cutting her a break. Just that you're letting her know. She might put up a fuss or say something in regards to how she's feeling.. and I would say basically.. I understand what you are going thru and I love you and will help you with that... but this has nothing to do with that.
I'm just letting you know that this is what I'm planning to do at the end of the month.. handing back the responsibility of the phone to you.

and then do it.

As for the kids in the house... well my daughter is almost 20 and I still tell her when the friends have to leave. I probably would say I know you're having difficulty sleeping and all.. but all of you.. friends included need to regain some measure of normal waking and sleeping hrs at this point. Its not healthy for you guys at this point to be up to all hrs of the night and day. How about we cut this back to say 1:00 am?

And yeah.. talk to the physician about that too. He can prescribe something for her to take temporarily to help with that too.

You are all trying for a normalcy that doesn't exist now.. that will have to be recreated and can only be done so with time.

hugs to you all sweetie..

Loui

quote:

You are all trying for a normalcy that doesn't exist now.. that will have to be recreated and can only be done so with time.

I think your right, and I am trying to control it (imagine that) seriously all I want is for her not to hurt and am facing slowly the reality that she's going to hurt and I can't fix it.

This just sucks I don't know how else to say it. Trying to find a counselor has been ridiculous. Found one yesterday I loved them, they seems so open and warm I really thought she would feel comfortable too, they don't take our insurance .

I have made a list of things I can control and things I need to just let go and let be. We'll see how that works out for me.

Le

quote:

they don't take our insurance

well that just about made UGLY words come out of my mouth

how utterly frustrating


ooo and good idea about the list of what you can control and what you cannot

more hugs to you and yours Le

you are an angel M'dear

xo
Hypatia

Le, call up that dr.'s office and ask 2 questions:

1. Can they contact your insurance company to try and get put on their "list"
2. Can they put your family on a payment plan

Loui

Thanks for the hug H sure wish you were closer I could use it today.

Isn't it strange how somedays just suck, the tears won't stop and neither will your mind.

Loui,
The practice is small they don't have the staff to handle insurance and they really can't make payment arrangements either. I am looking into options if I can't find someone I seem to click with as well.

There is a organization here called The Warm Place that is trying to help me so keep your fingers crossed. I think if I can just get this started I'll feel like I have done SOMETHING b/c not much else feels like an accomplishment.

Le

<<<<<Le>>>>> = old school hug...& new school =

I was going to e-mail the following to you this morning but then I thought I'd post it here instead -- you never know who will read what when & find it helpful. And grieving is certainly part of the infidelity process too.

As background: the following are comments made by a well-known writer, who was being interviewed, and spoke about the loss of her beloved partner 7 years earlier. I met this couple in their idyllic island retreat almost 20 years ago. I randomly learned of their deaths this morning while leafing through a magazine – the writer too has now passed – two wonderful people I've known. And here is one of them, talking about experiencing loss and grieving, after I've been thinking about it a lot this week.

So it was with multiple perspectives that I read Jane's thoughts about her intense loss. Here is an excerpt:

quote:

Sometimes I'll write a personal essay because I'm trying to figure out what I think and feel about something. One of the issues for me is dealing with grief. I've tried to write something about that because people talk very conventionally about grief, if they talk at all. They don't deal with the amount of anger about it, they don't deal with the sense of isolation.

I feel as if by now – I'm almost seven years into losing my partner – I'm beginning to get the hang of it. I think for each person it's different, but for someone to be free to say, "I feel so angry to have been left like this," that's not something you say. I remember when my father died I was just outraged. It took me three years to deal with that because I couldn't talk with anybody about it. To try to figure out what it was, finally three years after my father died, I wrote an essay called "I Want to Speak Ill of the Dead". It was the first time that I was really confronting the fact that I was mortal. That was part of it.

(Interviewer: You told a story earlier today about a young child who came up to you, looked you straight in the eyes and said, "Your partner died." I think there's some of that we adults need to get back to, whether it's a six-year-old response or not.)

It's a great relief to have someone acknowledge that this is a huge part of who you are. I can remember for two years after my partner died, I couldn't imagine why anyone came here. There was nobody here. And people would say "I can feel Helen everywhere". I can feel her nowhere. And you know, that's not the polite thing to say. People are thinking they're comforting you. There's just this vast emptiness in your life and you have to learn to deal with that. Everybody does. It's very common. But it's not something we talk about.

And we don't have permission to deal with it.

here's another couple of the cyber versions cause I'm not there for the real thing...<<<<<Le>>>>>

awed