I'm Kathy. 38 yo mother of 3, wife of 14 years. I married the Marine I fell in love with (those dang uniforms ;-) who until this year I have been faithful to. I was a virgin when we married if you can believe that....which is why we married 5 months after meeting in Vegas!!! What a GREAT time THAT was! Thought we had it all. But this past year has been hell. I am a SAHM and my husband (no longer a Marine...now an Engineer) travels a lot still. I discovered the internet and naive me fell right into several inappropriate online relationships with men, one of which almost cost me my marriage (as I was going to leave my husband for this guy.) After breaking off that online affair I thought I had it all under control. But no. I joined an online community in my city and ended up meeting a few men in RL who I ended up having several sexual encounters with. Yep, once totally faithful wife fell into the trap of infidelity. My husband found out because I just felt so horrible I had to tell him. I'm attending a recovery group right now but honestly, it's just not enough. Tonight my husband and I just had a hard discussion. This time about how certain character traits in each of us seem to be so incompatible. For example: I'm the person who has NO issue sending my over cooked steak back for the rare one I ordered....my husband, on the other hand, is the person who gets embarrassed easily and would eat a raw piece of meat that he ordered well done just to avoid any sort of confrontation or embarrassing "scene" as he would call it. He's a MARINE! I thought he was a fighter. Yeh, give him a gun in a war and he's on his game....but RL....dud. I'm an Italian Aries. He married a VERY passionate "spicy" person. He gets embarrassed by the stupidest things (IMO.) I'm really NOT obnoxious. I just know what I want and I expect good service and when I don't get it I communicate accordingly. We are talking about two polar opposites when it comes to how we deal with other people, be it at a restaraunt or with our neighbor. This is just ONE of the many issues in our marriage. I spend a whole day at home with kids and am dying for conversation during the day. I found that need met online but then it all blew up in my face as I found myself caught up in having all sorts of inappropriate relationships .... I mean I'm lonely here and sorry girls but I want a man to talk to....the one man I am suppose to be able to talk to is NEVER HERE! Even when he is here emotionally he is not.

Dang......I just spewed!

Okay, well that is enough about me for now. I really don't want to ruin my marriage but I also don't want to give up who I am or resign myself to a life of only mothering and loneliness.

Any comments are welcomed. Always needing friends.

You definitely came to the right place for help and ideas. Glad you found this site. Anyway, I can easily see how you would be lonely and needing adult conversation. When your H found out about your "flings", did he realize how lonely you were? I'm wondering if you are now realizing your differences as an excuse for what you did and a reason for a way out of your marriage? Does that make sense? Have you talked about your H getting a job that he doesn't have to travel, or maybe you getting a part time job to get out of the house and have normal relationships with other people? I remember when my kids were little, I couldn't wait for my H to get home from work just to talk to someone taller than 3 feet. Does he get embarassed by your reactions when things are not the way you want or does he accept them as part of the person he loves? I think if you both want this to work, he should definitely be there for you more often. These are just my thoughts but the experts on this site can offer some valuable insight for you. Don't give up,

Hi EI
I just thought I'd post since you might still be online when I post this. The experienced people will write in sometime and actually make some sense.
Welcome!
So I'm just wondering - what does your H say about the issue of his travel and not being around? What options do you guys have around this?
Secondly - what options do you have to get your needs met - for adult company and conversation and things to do apart from mothering - apart from going online? I mean online stuff can be fine - I think this board is great, and a lot of my friends I now talk to online because we're separated by distance (or laziness). But it seems to have dropped you in some bad holes, and I'm not sure it can ever substitute 100% for real life interaction. So what are your options for getting out and doing things that interest you? What interests you? If you didn't feel tied to "mothering and loneliness" - what would you be doing now? What do you love?

My take is that the full time non stop "mothering and loneliness" is what you're looking for an escape from - not your H. And the easiest forms of escape are often with other people - but they aren't all that lasting when it's just to fill a hole. To actually fill the hole without using anybody else takes work - but it lasts longer.

Hey, btw I don't think dissimilarity = incompatibility. They say opposites attract and there's a lot of truth to it - you guys could be totally dissimilar and still 100% complementary. If there's conflicts that are undermining your relationship then that's something to look at - but similarity on it's own is overated. You want a husband not a twin!

Hehe - btw Lanny I wasn't calling you inexperienced - I hadn't refreshed the page when I wrote so I thought nobody had posted!

Thanks for responding to my post!

To clarify a bit about my relationship with my husband I'll write a bit about the issue of embarrassment. He gets embarrassed when I am just being me. This issue came up because at a resturant just two nights ago, when the waiter came and asked how our food was, I said "I'm a bit disappointed in the children's entre's." The waited asked what the problem was and I told him. He left the table and soon came the manager to our table - I did not ask for this. I was just expressing a truthful answer to the waiter's question. The manager offered to bring another entre' for our kids. My husband refused it and said "oh no that's okay" because he was embarrassed and thought the manager was talking to loud and making a scene. I said "wait sure we'll take that other entre'" and the manager left and returned with the dish. My husband was SO embarrassed. I think NOTHING was wrong with the situation. I know no one can "make" me feel any certain way. But when you are with the same person 99% of the time you are with another adult, their feedback and response to who I am becomes the only feedback I get and honestly, I think it's understandable that I'd start to feel self conscious and "wrong" for being the way I am because of his difference with me in how we would deal with these sorts of things. This issue has happened since way before we had kids. We waited 6 years to have kids, putting him through college after the Corp. To put it plainly, I desire a man (my husband specifically) to stand by my side in public, not cringe in embarrassment protecting himself rather than uniting with me. We got in a big fight that night about how he thought I shouldn't complain about things because it embarrassed him. I feel like I have to give up who I am to make sure that he isn't embarrassed. When I tell him that I feel this way he replies with "well I feel embarrassed when you complain about things in public." I'm not a quiet person. He is. He tells me he thinks I'm being obnoxious and making myself look like a fool. When he accuses me of that I respond by telling him I think he's weak and cowardly for getting embarrassed over such trivial things. Then when he hears that, the whole conversation turns into him defending himself telling me how offended he is that I'm accusing him of being cowardly and weak. It's like a big snow ball. In the end, it just feels like I should just become more like him and contain the person who I am so that these conflicts don't keep arising in our relationship. But that is what I did for 13 years! I resent him for that. I don't want to give up who I am. I honestly think this issue of me giving up myself for his sake and to keep the peace in our family is a huge part of what led me decide to meet my own needs in what ever way I could. I am NOT looking for an excuse to continue an affair or to start a new one. I don't desire that for my kids. I want this marriage to work. I just don't know how I can be true to me and still have relative peace and contentment in our home life. This isn't just an issue of going out to eat. This issue pops up with neighbors (we've given up property in the past because my husband didn't want conflict!) and with the very serious issue of his role as leader of this family. He's so passive. I don't see him leading. I see him rolling over to avoid conflict. He gets offended and hurt because he wants me to see him as a strong man and leader but I don't see him that way. I see him as a quiet, passive, conflict avoider. I don't trust him to defend my honor or my property. Yet, he wants me to see him in this way. How do I learn to respect my husband as a leader when I only see a wimp?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: EmotionalIsland,

Just wanted to send you a hug and to say that things tend to slow down around here on the weekends, so keep posting and keep reading we will be here.

Thanks LM

My husband knows how lonely I was. He admits to being emotionally absent from our marriage and also emotionally dependent on me. He is in a Co-Addicts group and went to a Therapy workshop for spouses down in TN. I'm going to the same workshop this coming week except mine is for addicts. I don't blame my H for what I did. I think we've been in a co-dependent relationship from the very start. I want to learn to respect him and trust him and be a safe person for him again. I have a filter on my computer to keep me from porn, gaming sites, and other dating sites. That helps. I've been "sober" since Feb 5 2008 when I came clean about the RL sexual encounters. He knew about the internet stuff prior to that (which started March 2007.) I've completely cut myself off from all inappropriate activity or possiblity of engaging in any inappropriate activities. I'm on step 3 in my recovery program but I don't have a sponsor. I think the root of this whole problem is co-dependency. It's medicating emotions that I've historically not dealt with in a healthy way. Pick your medication, sex, porn, alcohol, drugs, gamblings, whatever....My drug just happened to be intense new relationships with other men. So I'm not getting my fix any more (and I don't want to because of the consequences that would bring) but now I'm at the point that I'm really looking at the issues in my marriage and realizing that I have NO IDEA what a healthy marriage looks like and frankly it's scary. What if we realize in the end that we married each other out of unhealthy reasons and come to discover that we really are very incompatible for each other. There really isn't much attraction present in these differences. I've come to totally see my husband as a weak person and I don't trust him as my protector or defender. I want to have a man who IS that for me. How do I neglect that desire? I want a man who is more aggressive than I am (in life and in bed...I'll just be honest here.) Some one told me that sexual addiction is really an intimacy disorder. I couldn't agree more. I feel no deep bond with my husband. We had a lot of fun together. We like camping, hiking, off roading, horse backing, fishing, etc...all those out doorsy type activities but the deep connections just seem to be absent in our marriage. I feel horrible that I think my husband to be a passive, weak person. I've tried to convince myself that his character qualities do have certain strengths (and they do - I mean I don't want a guy who goes around picking fights) but convincing myself and naturally just seeing him that way are two totally separate things. Honestly, he was a stellar Marine. I never imagined I'd see him in the way I see him today. I think I saw in him a fantacy and not the reality of who he was. I saw a man I could "care take" for and rescue from loneliness - and he was good looking so it wasn't difficult to fall right into that relationship. He needed me and being needed what what I needed. Unfortunately, that foundation doesn't make for a lasting marriage. We have to find a new foundation. I'm just not sure we can. I know it must just kill him that he knows I don't see him as a leader in our marriage. Thing is that so much has hurt me to the core in our marrage that has disintegrated my respect and trust that I have to admit that I do hold him responsible for where we are right now to some degree. Again, not for my actions and selfish decisions but for his part in it all. I hope there is hope for us. At the very least I'm glad that I don't have AP to cloud my mind anymore. People have told me that staying together for the kids is not a good reason to stay together. I disagree with that because I know a divorce would kill my kids. I'm from a divorced alcoholic family and I don't want that for my kids. But I also know that we have to find a reason for US to be together outside of the kids welfare. I mean, what happens at the empty nest stage of our lives if we only stay together for the kids? Not a smart plan.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: EmotionalIsland,

LOL, Kathy! Welcome!

Let me tell you -- you're not alone in the assertive/embarrassed-to-death relationship model. I do things on purpose to embarass my h when we go out. (Yes, I'm not only very open I'm truly evil as well ) My favorite example is the time I bought a couple of very lacy girlie items and pulled them out in a full restaurant to show him. With a flourish.

So. This by no means means that your M can't work. In fact .... it's probably a large part of why your marriage will 'work' -- because we're going to define a successful marriage as one where the partners are forced to face their own inner crud and grow from it. We marry people who remind us of those issues day in and day out. David Snarch calls marriage a people growing machine .... I can't remember what Harville Hendrix calls it ... but it's something similar. I see it over and over again with every couple I encounter.

(Aries - Italian huh? Holy cow .... that's quite the combo.)

quote:

I don't trust him to defend my honor or my property. Yet, he wants me to see him in this way. How do I learn to respect my husband as a leader when I only see a wimp?

The ages old question of empowered women. I really believe the whole romance fiction/myth thing about powerful women and macho warriors is just that -- fiction. I think passive men attract powerful or aggressive women to work out their issues around masculinity. And powerful or aggressive women do the same to work out their issues around fear of abandonment or being unlovable.

The real question is ..... are you willing ... do you have the courage to embark on a personal journey of growth and transformation?

P

Penny you sadist! Oh no, you are just like my H! He takes actual JOY in embarassing me in public! We went to London - he's indian origin so looks indian although he's never been there - and we went to Harrods - he walked up to the very posh perfume counter with me in tow.... and asked the lady if she had anything for CURRY SMELL. I was mortified! He was so happy! ARGH!

We can't go to the **** supermarket without him making stupid comments to the checkout chicks or whatever to embarass me. The more success the happier he is...

(sigh)
well at least i know i bring him joy in his life.... even if it's at my own expense!

I'm glad there is some humor in this for some. I never go out of my way to embarass my husband because he gets VERY angry. The tension in the air affects the kids. I'm not out purposefully embarass him. He just gets embarassed by ME being ME! That is what sucks about this. It's not just embarassement either. It's issues with neighbors too. Long story, but reader's digets version...neighbor builds 3 feet on our property, where I had plans to put in an iron fence. I ask the neighbor to move their garden (wooden railroad tyes)3 weeks before I planned to do the work. They agree to but then don't do it and they are gone the weekend I'm going to do the work. So I moved the garden myself. They get home, go gonzo on me telling me to *uck off and all sorts of other explicitives and even get physically threatening of me. My husband runs in the house then later after I come in he vocalizes to me how I shouldn't have moved their garden and is all angry at me for making waves with the neighbors. I was excersizing my boundaries (literally at this time) and I pay hell for it in my marriage. I wanted him to side with me but he just runs away and then basically blames me for a neighbor being ****** off at me. This isn't just a light hearted issue ladies. This is serious marriage breaker stuff I'm talking about. We are two totally different people. I'm a confronter (not mean or rude...just that I will say what needs to be said and do what needs to be done) and he is a person who avoids conflict at ALL costs, even his own and my own now that I am married to him. I'm sick of this *hit. If another man is screaming at a woman and basically getting in her face in a threatening way, wouldn't you expect a 6'3" Marine to step in and take care of business defending his wife????? Well I DO!

quote:

I never go out of my way to embarass my husband because he gets VERY angry. The tension in the air affects the kids. I'm not out purposefully embarass him. He just gets embarassed by ME being ME!

Yeahhhhh.... that's a whole different thing entirely. He's not really embarrased by you, you know. He's feeling inadequate - terribly concerned about how others are seeing him (a reflected sense of value based on how he thinks others will see you and then judge him) - and he's desperately trying to soothe his anxiety by attempting to control you. It's a hideous dynamic all around.

The thing you need to understand is that no matter *what* you do you can't make it better. It's not about you -- it's about his terror of being inadequate and that will pop up regardless of any action on your part.

What you can do is learn to get grounded and calm .... able to separate what is your inner stuff from what is his ... and from that place to make your decisions about all aspects of your life based on your values instead of on some level of emotional reactivity.

Check out my thread on Valu-ABLES, Values, Boundaries, and Consequences on this board and my book club thread on the Daily Grind board. We're discussing different aspects of those concepts there.

quote:

My husband runs in the house then later after I come in he vocalizes to me how I shouldn't have moved their garden and is all angry at me for making waves with the neighbors.

Exactly. Can you see the dynamic I outlined in this scenario? (Been there, btw, ask me sometime about the neighbors who killed a quarter mile of trees.)

P

Apologies EI if it sounded like I was taking your issue lightly. I was sort of toying around in my head with how people can have really different embarassment thresholds. And while I'm joking now about the stuff my H does, at the time I'm not thinking it's funny!
My father in law sounds a lot like your H. He would rather be totally screwed by someone than make waves. It's frustrating to see him get walked over because of it.
But equally I guess the light stories kind of suggest that this sort of discrepancy in a marriage doesn't necessarily mean you're incompatible. Just that you both might need to work to find a way to deal with it. It is very upsetting when you don't feel supported by your spouse to outsiders.

No apologies necessary mags. I wasn't offended just pointing out that I was glad some one could find the humor in my pain. I think that is a good thing.

I'm actually doing a lot better. I attended a Sexual Addiction workshop down in TN called Bethesda. It helped me to see what they called "My Egg" which is really the different episodes of trauma that I faced from my earliest memories to my present infidelity. It helped me to see that I need a vision for my life rather than sitting around waiting for my life to happen. It was a VERY difficult 5 days of intensity. As far as recommending the workshop, yeah, I would but with this disclaimer: Don't expect to get any one on one help with your specific therapy needs. The program is VERY rigid and ONLY allows for the program and not any specific issues that individuals might encounter because of all their stuff being brought up to the surface. Personally, I don't think the staff there are adequate to the task when people start puking up all their "egg" stuff because they stir it up but if you are generally an emotionally healthy person and can reason for yourself and think for yourself you will benefit from this workshop. www.bethesdaworkshops.org
It is Christ Centered. Yes, I'm a Christian Adulteror. Shameful I know. Thank God there is GRACE! That's all I can say.

Hey EI - how are you?

The workshop sounds cool. How are things at home now?

P

Thanks for asking. They are doing okay. I have been able to see how differences don't necessarily mean incompatibility and at the same time my husband has been able to see more clearly and admit that he is acting in his own co-dependence/co-addiction when he's more concerned about his reputation and public approval rather than his own wife. So on that front, we are growing but we have a lot of work to do.

As far as my addiction: Well I just watched a movie recently and the actor (I won't mention who for privacy sake :-)) who reminded me HUGELY of my affair partner and now he's been on my mind and my lust and desire has been going crazy for him. I know it's a total dead end, marriage ending choice and frankly I don't want to risk my marriage but yet my attraction and feelings for my xAP (ex affair partner) are still there. I have no contact with him and I have Safe Eyes on my computer. Some days I LOVE Safe Eyes. Other days I curse it. Some one tried to tell me of a work around to Safe Eyes and I told them NOT to tell me!!! But I now wonder all the time HOW. Hopefully I'll never find out. Yes....I have been having to go back over Step One of the Twelve steps DAILY these days. It's tough.

Again, thanks for asking.