Hello,
I am new here but have been reading posts for some time, and am encouraged by the depth of thought that posters put into their responses.

My situation is that H 'fell in love' and moved out to live with OW nearly 2 years ago. Theirs was an emotional affair and did not become physical until he left (honest - I know that is quite unusual). He has almost no contact with me though he just e mailed to say that he has started divorce proceedings based on 2 years separation (this is UK law), which I have said I will agree to.

My questions are firstly, after a long and mostly happy relationship, what drives a spouse to totally withdraw? Is it that all his needs are met by OW and so there is no room for me? Is he feeling guilty for the hurt he has put me through? (He has expressed his sorrow and mentioned guilt) Or is it a combination of the above? Actually as I wrote that, I knew that the first of these is true, still any imput might help clear my thinking.

Secondly, in order to recover from an affair there needs to be no contact with the AP. But surely when my H has no contact with me, he is recovering from the marriage?

For your information, we were married 28 years before he left. We had 3 children but one died in an accident 5 years before and I feel that some of what happened with H was that he was escaping from the pain at home. Our 2 remaining (adult) children live with me (both students) and H has moved away to start a new life with OW who is his long-term business partner and friend.

Good to have found this site - it is helping keep me sane,
Jules

Hi Jules
I have nothing to offer re your situation, but I just thought I'd say hello and welcome and sorry for what's brought you here. Boards are quiet on the weekend, so you should be getting some responses soon.
For the record, re: your questions, I was actually thinking the second was more likely to be true. Initially the OW chemicals would have flooded his brain and squeezed you out, but over time there's probably a lot of sorrow and guilt involved too - you are a reminder of a really crappy thing he did in his life. Does he know that you would have him back? He possibly/probably thinks you hate him.
Hang in there
Mags

I forgot to say - condolences over your child. I don't even know what else to say about something so sad. And yes, I personally believe that that sort of pain can lead to some maladaptive forms of escape.

Hi Mags
Thanks for the reply. As for where he knows whether I would have him back - I think he might as the last time I saw him we went through the house contents and as we were burning some old letters I said 'Are you sure you made the right decision?', to which he replied 'you wouldn't want me now - I'm not very good company'. I just whispered that I would.

What he said sort of gave me hope that things weren't brilliant but I have seen pictures of them together since and they looked very happy. Plus the ball was in his court for divorce (I couldn't do it) and he has started proceedings. :-(

He knows that I don't hate him but I hate what he has done.

I have another question. Penny wrote somewhere that it makes a difference if the WH moves away and cuts himself off from his former friends. What difference does this make?

So glad this site exsists
Jules

Hi Jules and welcome. Really sorry you are dealing with all this.

How are your children interacting with him and the OW?

P

Hi Penny and Mags,

Mags - have just read through your thread and realise what you are dealing with yourself. Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to me!

Penny - since he left, he has seen the kids (S 25, D 19) every few months and take them out for a meal. S is great support for me and is very open to contact with his dad. He has never had a relationship with OW who we have known for years and is unlikely to start now (she doesn't like kids!). OW did have a friendship with D who she said reminded her of herself. D now feels VERY betrayed by OW as well as her dad, and wants nothing to do with her. She sees her dad reluctantly and is always upset. I have said to her that he loves her and encouraged her to see him. I think that their relationship will eventually improve but I don't think she will recover. She links the pain to losing her brother and it goes deep.

Jules

Hi

Feeling really sad today as I feel like there is no chance that he will get over his relationship and return home - soon won't be a home to return to as I have to sell the house. I made a connection last night that leads me to think that DD has spent some quality time with OW (they both posted very similiar ie arty photos of a day out H, OW and the kids had together while I was away). I don't mind that they got on as I don't want my D to be so hurt and angry, but I do feel left out and I fear that if the kids accept the relationship, it means there is no chance of a reconsilliation.

Would value any thoughts - is it time to just give up all hope?
Jules

Oh poor Jules
The board seems really quiet so I'm writing to say I'm here, even though I don't have any answers/advice to offer!
What a sad feeling - it would feel rotten to feel left out like that. But you are their mum and will always be irreplaceable, just try to remember that. Just because there's a father, a woman, and your kids - doesn't make them the new family unit, even if it does paint an awful postcard-like image. But images are rarely reality - same goes for those pics you saw of them where 'they looked happy' - not many people frown for the camera so don't put too much on it.

In terms of giving up hope - I don't have enough experience to say. However, I've never actually heard them tell anybody on this board to give up hope. But they do tend to focus on what strategies to use with your H (which I'll leave alone), and also to work on yourself so that you'll be ok whichever way things go. Are you looking after yourself? What sort of stuff do you like doing? Outside this - what are your hopes for your life?

Mags you are a hero!

As I say I've read your thread and hope with all my heart that things work out for you and your babe.

Not sure what working on myself means! I qualified as a teacher just before he left, so I have been supporting myself and the kids. I am coming to the end of the school holidays and the kids and most of my friends are away so I've had a bit of time to wallow. (I am about to go into my new nursery class and do some more prep there). I go out with friends or on my own and I am keeping myself busy.

My hopes for life are financial stability for me and the kids, to have a happy home and to be good at my job, to have an enjoyable social life. I miss so much having someone to share things with. I do feel that I will be OK if he doesn't come back - I know that I am a strong enough person. And I will certainly not be a sad or angry person. I just miss him.

Big thanks for being there Mags,
Jules

HELP!

The divorce papers are here and I have just signed them, but I feel bad signing the bit that says that the marriage has 'irretrievably' broken down. I am still prepared to try to make it work, but I can't if he won't. I have left him a message to ask him to speak to me before I return papers. It is humiliating but I will ask him to really think if there is a chance our marrage can be salvaged. I know what his answer will be, but I must ask or I won't have done everything I can.

Any advice?
Jules

quote:

Any advice?

If you don't want a divorce don't sign the papers.

P

My advice is to rethink WHO you are asking as to whether you should try and save your marriage. Instead of asking your wayward husband, who is in pretty deep in an affair - ask yourself whether you are ready to dissolve.

It doesn't sound like you are ready.

And until YOU are ready, there is no reason to turn over the decision completely to your H. You get a vote in this.

Instead....spend some time with three people who you really respect. People with a lot of integrity....people who are older perhaps with wisdom.

Those are excellent people to chat with about doing what's best for you. Not your H.

I'm sorry you're going through this. It's hard. But don't make decisions unless you are in a good place emotionally, healthy, and have been through lots of work on yourself.
GS

quote:

Not sure what working on myself means!

Sorry, I missed this earlier!

Counseling, meditation, classes on compassion, career investment, time with just getting in touch with what you picture your life being.

We all have different answers I think.
GS

hi

I was just composing a reply when he phoned. We talked, he said that we had a good marriage but that was the past and that there is no future for us. I spoke to him about new love versus established love, and he seemed to listen and then said he would take the new. I know that they have a lot in common and that they care for each other. Its not what I want, but is there a time when you have to accept the inevitable?

I know that that is defeatist talk, but I am so tired and feel that I can not compete with her. She is my age, not physically attractive but has an excitement about her that appeals to men (has no women friends). She and my husband share an interest in art (they did an MA together) and they are now doing up a house together (he couldn't put up a shelf with me!).

I feel as though I have come here too late. Although I still want my marriage restored, I am not sure that I believe it can be anymore.

Sad and tired and feeling that all hope has gone,
Jules

Start by shredding the divorce papers. Intelligent life takes a stand!!

Thanks for the wishes Jules! Gawd your eyes must be SORE if you've tried reading my thread...!

I'm sad to hear your H said that. It does seem to make it hard that they are long term friends/business partners etc. too because there must be a lot of attachment baggage to compete with over and above the infatuation side.

So sad.

I know it sounds simple - don't sign the papers and you still have your marriage. But do I? He has bought a house with another woman - he wants to be with her not me. Is that a marriage?

It is true, I am not ready to let go, but how do I know whether I am just sitting with my fingers in my ears going 'la, la, la I'm not listening' or whether I am fighting for my marriage? At the moment I feel like a worm wriggling on a hook. I have started talking to friends (my closest friends are away at the moment) and will talk with my kids when they come home from their holiday tonight.

Meanwhile, could people elaborate on what might happen if I just 'shred the divorce papers'? Divorce is not common amongst my close friends and unheard of in my (mainly catholic) family, so I really don't know what to expect.

BTW continued thanks to Mags who is a warm hearted soul. What's the news, Mags?

Jules

Well Jules..

I've never been in your position so I don't know how it "feels"...

But from talking with other people who have and (one of them a very close friend) and from being here on the boards this is what I think. (and its just an opinion so don't hold it as anything more).

What I think J & Penny are talking about when they say shred the papers is that you are taking a stand for what you believe in.

You believe in the institution of marriage. You don't want to end yours. That means that you don't do anything to forward that action.

Now emotionally I am sure that it is so hard on you to be left "hanging" on. OTOH.. if you take the other course you're kinda still hanging on too.. only not in a place of personal power.

Your choice is to not end the marriage. Than don't. You take a stand. And I know people who have done it for years ended up divorced anyway.. and I know people who didn't.

The truth is he may feel all those things and say all those things and believe all those things. And to the surface it looks to you to be true.

What about 5 yrs down the road. What about 10. Will he still feel the same way about her.. or will he begin to see that what he felt in your marriage is still there inside of him. Does that mean he won't be happy-er cause he left and is with the OW? or will he be not happy at all. There is no way of knowing that until that time comes.

The affair and why he left has nothing really to do with you. It has all to do with whats going on inside of him.

At this point this is about your decision to stand up for what you believe in. And if you decide that you are done with the fight.. its your decision as well.

No matter what your final decision is, I certainly wouldn't make it easy for him.. that much is for sure.

Loui

You're too kind Jules... unfortunately it's probably more like compulsive poster than warm hearted soul...!
No news from here really. Just limboing away. H has been interstate and comes back tonight. Maybe I should cook him a nice dinner or something? Hmmm...

I was googling UK divorce laws and came across this - I have no idea about accuracy or anything. It was from this site:
http://www.999-life.com/divorce-law-uk.htm

With consent:
"In situations where consent is given by both parties involved, then divorce is granted under the category of 2 years Separation With Consent. This is granted to couples who would like to get divorced amicably and with no one partner blaming the other. This simply involves both partners having to prove that they have lived apart for 2 years and then after that period, one partner will file for divorce under the two year Separation With Consent and the other will provide consent."

Without consent:
"On rare occasions the UK Divorce Law grants divorce to couples without consent from both partners. Divorce under the category of 5 years Separation Without Consent is granted to couples who have lived apart continuously for a period of five years. If the continuous separation of five years can be proven, then consent is not necessary from the other partner. However, it is important that the partner filing for divorce to understand that the court can still refuse to grant the divorce. So, although in most cases the Five year Separation is good grounds for divorce without consent, there have been cases where divorce was not granted when the other partner can prove extreme hardship."

However it sounded like a lot of people get around the consent issue with another category of divorce allowed for 'unreasonable behaviour':

"According to the UK Divorce Law the Unreasonable Behaviour constitutes when one partner behaves in such an "unreasonable" manner that the other partner finds it intolerable. It is for this reason that the most common "grounds" granted for divorce by the courts in England and Wales, is under the category of "Unreasonable Behaviour". It is important to understand that the court is also more lenient towards this category of divorce than any other. This is because its not hard to think of examples of a few behaviour which are intolerable to a partner. But it is important to understand that, as with UK Divorce Law for Adultery, there is a time limit involved for filing for divorce based on this category. If the partners are living together, then the partner wishing to file for divorce would have to do so within six months of the incident of the "intolerable behaviour"."
"If the couples both agree on the grounds for this category, then the courts very rarely try to prevent the divorce from going through. However, if one partner disagrees, then the court would be forced to scrutinize the claims. "

And another note:

"Once again, it is important to emphasis that as with any other "grounds" for divorce, the reason and the category for which divorce is granted by the courts is independent of how the assets are divided between the partners, or, the children's custody. "

Anyway that's just from a website, a family lawyer would probably actually know. Certainly sounds like you can make life a little more inconvenient for him if you choose to!

Hi Mags
thanks for posting whether its cus you're addicted or want to support other folk (I beleive the latter!). I am pretty clear on the UK law. As I don't want to divorce him - he was a good 'un - I only have two options. Either I agree now to a divorce on 2 years separation or leave it for another 3 years when he can get a divorce without my consent.

He declared that the marriage was over when he walked and that he did not plan to marry OW, but now he is changing his mind and I think he will propose to her when the divorce comes through. So if I delay then it gives him more time to change his mind and return to the marriage, and also stops him marrying oW. However, if there is no hope for reconcilliation it means that I am trying to hold on to something that isn't there. Most of the advice I have received (from friends and councelling) urges me to 'let go and move on with my life'. I can do the latter but the former is so much harder.

I have had friends say that if I am not ready to divorce then don't sign, but generally those folk seem to think that I could have a relationship with someone else (if I wanted) while still married. That is not on for me. So it is either be alone waiting for him to come to his senses or divorce me in 3 years time, or give him a divorce and hope that he still comes to his senses, but I would have the option of dating if it feels right.

I know that makes it sound as though I am ambivilent about saving my marriage. I'm not. I am ambivilent about believing that it can be saved. Sadly my closest, wisest friends are away at the moment so I'm using this as a place to air my feelings.

Still very confused!

Lots of luck when he comes home, Mags. Hope you can work things out.
Jules