Rather than jack my own thread (can I do that? )...I started this separate, but related, discussion.

On my thread, Regina says:

quote:

because messages of inadequacy are substantially more powerful than messages of affirmation. (I could liken it to electrons and protons. Electrons have greater charge to mass ratio.)

Let's talk about this for a minute, shall we? Why is this?

This is true, by the way. I volunteered for six years on a psychiatric ward. I met many people who couldn't remember their full names, but they remembered precisely all the bad messages they'd received.

One older black man couldn't tell you how old he was, who his mother was, or where he lived. But he could tell you that he was just, "Poor ol' Misser [FIRST NAME], who shouldn't be asking you to do anything for me, Missy [Takola]." H's grandmother cannot remember much at all or find the right words most of the time, and after her collapse, the first words she could say were those words we term "curse" words.

Many people [scientists and psychologists] say this information is stored in another part of the brain. I haven't read up on this enough to know if it is true or not.

What do you think?

Tak,

I think that if we pay enough attention to our thinking as it happens, we will "feel" how things are located in the brain.

I swear I do it all the time. Like I said on the HSP thread by Nyneve, some noises are so loud at times that I can feel it streak through my brain to the auditory center--and it HURTS.

People who have strokes can predict them just before onset. My grandfather did. He said, "I think something's happening in my brain."

Things in the brain affect our whole bodies (I know, ), especially something wrong, something foreign to our systems.

There are chemical pathways--I do not mean channels; I mean a certain way molecules bump into each other to bring about certain responses. Sometimes one molecule or atom can be substituted for another, but different atoms can affect the same molecule differently. I think that when this happens, we can feel it and it certainly affects every aspect of our being.

So, taking this idea, let's see what we get out of negative messages. (Durn, I'm going to have to dust off "Why We Love" .)

When we experience strife, we release chemicals like adrenaline and dopamine, and serotonin is reduced. These are powerful. Sometimes they produce anger; and these can be addictive, and are associated with those who are drug addicts.

Serotonin is addictive too. But its lack is associated with depression. Also, the increase in adrenaline and dopamine are associated with--depression. Depression is an addictive state of mind.

What we need is a balance of these chemicals. But we like them and so we return to the negativity that caused them.

Just one idea...

Regina

Hey, my deep-thinkin' sista,

I don't know about the phsiology of the whole thing, but what I do know is that if nine people tell me I'm wonderful and one person says I s&ck, I will hold on and take into my heart the one bad comment. I know that this is because they are only mirroring what I believe about myself.

Do you think it's the same reasoning?

Nyneve -

I've noticed that most of the time now I'm inclined to be more compasionate with the 'unflattering' types. I'll even reserve judgement and perhaps invest a bit more in trying to go the last mile with that person.

In trying to evaluate the difference I'd have to say that my defenses are not reflexive as they once were. This calm/grace has generally been a big plus. It's a lot easier to ask little one's to do as I do.

All the best,
SB

quote:

Originally posted by SeekingBetter:
In trying to evaluate the difference I'd have to say that my defenses are not reflexive as they once were. This calm/grace has generally been a big plus. It's a lot easier to ask little one's to do as I do.

Reflexive, eh? That makes sense. So, you're saying that in the past you would AUTOMATICALLY think something when a negative comment was made, and now you... stop?... re-frame?... and certainly I hear that you show compassion to the person saying it.

This grace (and I looooooove the word "grace" ) is self-healing and outward-healing, isn't it?

I'm pondering on the concept of reflexive. It really resonates with me. Thank you for your comments... interesting...

I need to get my audio books back out!!

Brian Tracy, on either the Psychology of Achievement or the Science of Self Confidence talks about negative messages. For some reason, and I don't remember his explanation in its entirety, negative messages are accepted by the brain easier than positive messages. Something about how our subconscious processes messages and negative messages often has more emotion/feeling connected to the words. He talks a lot about positive self talk, and that when making the positive statements you must make sure that they are said with feeling, so that the subconscious takes it as truth and over rides the negative messages that are being stored.

This made sense to me, since the negative messages tossed at us by verbal abusers is usually heard when they are in a high emotional state, our brain accepts those messages as truth.

quote:

I will hold on and take into my heart the one bad comment. I know that this is because they are only mirroring what I believe about myself.

I think that this is very true. Part of the impact of the negative statements comes from a reinforcement of core hurts.

I also think that we have a biochemical/physiological reason, too. I don't think one is easily separated from the other.

quote:

Something about how our subconscious processes messages and negative messages often has more emotion/feeling connected to the words.

Wow. This is almost exactly what I heard, but I cannot recall the source.

This makes a lot of sense. The subconcious works more with abstract ideas than with words. Words are just symbols we use to convey ideas to one another. Any emotion that empowers the words will only make the symbology and, therefore, the message, stronger.

quote:

Many people [scientists and psychologists] say this information is stored in another part of the brain. I haven't read up on this enough to know if it is true or not.

It is true that different sorts of emotions are stored in different places in the brain. But the reason one sort seems stronger than another or why we remember it more clearly is more complex than whether the emotion in question is negative or positive. It has to do with how connected we are to ourselves and how skilled we are at regulating our emotions. And it has to do with where are mind is at the time we are recalling things of the past.

For someone who is experiencing something pleasant in the present it is quite easy to recall pleasant experiences from the past - because his/her mind is in the domain of positive emotions.

Conversely, for someone who is in the sway of an afflictive emotion (hatred, anger, fear, anxiety, resentment, blame, etc) it will be very difficult to recall pleasant experiences from the past.

The mind can only be in one domain at a time. We, especially the 2nd year SoC students,know this from our discussions about being in love. When we're in love we can't imagine that we would ever not be so (I've found my soulmate!). But when the chemicals wear off and we're not in the throes of romantic obsession it's pretty hard to remember what it was like when we were - or for some to even remember that it ever existed. Same thing with other emotions.

It gets more complex when we examine the cultural paradigm in which we live. The idea of emotional regulation - addressing our inner hurts and healing them rather than blaming others for our discomfort - is mostly unheard of. We live in a world of blame.

Inner hurts + blame = resenment. For the most of us resentment is a chronic state. Although we have moments of connection to self, they are tenuous at best. Most of us lose the connection when we become stressed - i.e. when we are reminded that we sometimes feel inadequate or unworthy. And, when we lose our connection to self we are likely to blame. And so, the cycle of living in afflictive emotions continues.

This being the case - it is only natural that most of us recall more easily hurtful experiences of the past. It's where our focus is most of the time - it is the domain catching and holding our awareness and attention.

However - it is quite possible to change this dynamic. We do so by learning how to feel our inner hurts (not the same as feeling the anger and resentment we use to hide from them) and to heal those hurts by becoming skilled at the art of compassion. When we do that our awareness and focus will be within the domain of peace, calm, contentment, and joy.

P

(Assuming my best P voice),

Ok, so how do we put this all together? I don't think that any ONE of these is the sole cause. I think it is more an interplay of message, intensity, emotion, where we are at emotionally, our core hurts, and our storage and retrieval methods.

How do we make sense of this?

quote:

How do we make sense of this?

I don't know that we do. I think we experience it. SYMC is a brainiac group. We know it and for the most part we're proud of it. Just look at the threads from the past 6 months or year. We like nothing better than to take a complex thought apart and put it back together again - discussing it from every angle possible until we've completely dissected it.

That's really cool - there are few things in life that I like more.

But.

This work of healing is not something we do intellectually. It is not something we can read and talk about and understand and the voila! we are healed. It is a journey of experience.

It's a difficult concept in our go-to-school-get-letters-after-your-name-and-that-means-you're-qualified world. The work of healing, of transformation, is not like that. It's a journey often without words and most often inexpressible. It must be experienced.

The steps are small and the path is winding - think labyrinth. Every time I walk my labyrinth here I get to a point where I'm quite certain I must have stepped over a path and am now going backwards because I seem to be getting nowhere. And yet - one step after another - eventually I find the path takes me exactly where I need to be.

Do the Finding Your Heart meditation. More than just reading or listening - actually enter into it. See it. Feel it. Be with it. And then draw or journal about it. Make a collage - a very powerful tool for tapping the nonverbal.

Hold those feelings. Grow them. Touch that place of connection to self every hour you are awake for at least a week.

P

Dang, P.

So you're saying the same thing my therapist has been saying, the same thing YOU'VE been saying for awhile, the same thing that I thought I was doing but wasn't...

FEEL IT.

Dunt wanna. nope. Jus' dunt wanna.

Thought I did. I don't.

(PS: We'll be able to put ourselves back together if 'feeling it' breaks us, won't we?)

Mmmmm..... how much energy do you think it takes to avoid those feelings? Do you know that's what the anger is all about? Anger is only a way to not feel the pain that lies beneath. It's a very energetically expensive way to hide.

P

quote:

Dunt wanna. nope. Jus' dunt wanna.

Thought I did. I don't.

(PS: We'll be able to put ourselves back together if 'feeling it' breaks us, won't we?)

It won't break us if we go at the pace that is best for us, Nyneve. Stretching ourselves is different than forcing ourselves. Self-care becomes even more important during times of stretching.

It is important that we know the difference between dealing with things in a way that self-perpetuates the abuse and doing things in a way that, in itself, is healing.

I think it's more about the process than the goal.

You know what I was going to say? I was going to say that I know all that - whatever *that* is... because as you so wisely pointed out, P, we're a brainiac group and we know things cognitively. So, I know it's about anger, although you know I don't look or sound or appear in any way angry to the real world. The minute it rears its head - SLAM. BANG. BUH-BYE.

I think my mask might have shifted a bit. It's now the double-door mask. You know, like on Get Smart. Dum-da-dum SLAM dum-da-dum SLAM...

And yes, LB, totally agree that self-care is especially important during these stretching times.

The thing is, I hate process. And I love it. But mostly, I hate it when it's happening to me. For me, I want instant results. For you, I want to hold your hand and go down the path through the process. I'm a researcher, at heart, unless it's about me. Then I'm not.

Bleh... I'm even confusing myself, kinda/sorta.

quote:

But mostly, I hate it when it's happening to me. For me, I want instant results. For you, I want to hold your hand and go down the path through the process.

That's interesting. I think it's worth taking a closer look at.

Yeah, well... this thread isn't about me, it's about Tak. Don't look at the lady behind the curtain... nothing to see here folks.

Sure you wouldn't rather hum the Get Smart theme with me?

I didn't say to do it here. Nice try though

Besides, I just thought it was interesting. My mind's been rolling it around. I think it's worth looking at, but I don't know that it is. You know. If you start a thread, I'll be there. If you don't start a thread, I will trust that you don't need to look at it (now).