quote:

You idiot, you should have known it would be like this. What the hell were you thinking moving to another country in the first place? For crying out loud, you're over 40, fat, and you haven't worked in five years now. Who'd ever hire you now? Everyone said this would be a mistake, why didn't you listen? YOU KNEW it would be a mistake, remember all those doubts, well now you're paying for it.

When you "hear" this, how do you feel about yourself?

Since your anger is at yourself, please disregard the venting phrases I sent to you. (They were a joke to try to make you smile, anyway.)

What are the adjectives you feel about yourself when you hear this?

I know right now you won't take it to your core, just as you knew I wouldn't take your statements about me to my core. I'm going to say them anyway.

You are not an idiot. You are one of the most brilliant, loving, and giving people I have met. You are a BEAUTIFUL person - a living, breathing, priceless work of art. Anyone with any sense would LOVE to hire someone like you - dedicated, giving, competent.

Yes, hold my hand, Tak...

quote:

I'm here, and I'm not going anywhere. I bet I'm not the only one who is going to tell you that.

Let me tell you what I saw, and read in this statement.

First, I see now that you said not the only one... but when I read it, first I thought you said "I bet I'm the only one"... and I paniced (is that spelled right? It doesn't look right)... I got scared, I thought, wait, she's right, she's the only one... where's P, where's star, where's LB... they're already feeling my neediness and clingyness and they've pulled away...

And then I saw the "not"... and I thought... well... ahem... oh... it wouldn't have surprised me if she'd been the only one to stay... um. Oh.

Saying those things about myself... seeing it in writing... makes me feel shame. At the same time, it vindicates and validates me.

Everyone tried to be supportive when I came to Canada, whether they agreed it was the right decision or not. I tried to believe it was right myself, even though a part of me never believed it.

There is a great big coulda-woulda-shoula-umbrella over my head right now.

I've got your hand.

You are not the only one to do this. I used to do it, too. As soon as I would show just a little bit of me...I was SURE everyone had turned tail and ran. I've reloaded my thread hundreds of times wondering if people were going to respond...then concluding that they weren't because they'd figured out that I'm a freak. (all of this, of course, in the space of less than 1/2 an hour)

Hold on tight. It's a bumpy ride, girlfriend.

quote:

are a BEAUTIFUL person - a living, breathing, priceless work of art.

what Tak said...

hang in there chum...the deep breathing exercise will help...awed

I was writing my second response to you as you were writing. Hope you take a peek up there.

quote:

...then concluding that they weren't because they'd figured out that I'm a freak. (all of this, of course, in the space of less than 1/2 an hour)

It took you that long, eh? Yeah, see, this is going through that "why am I afraid to tell you who I am?" territory.

I tell you who I am (the collective you) and you bail because you can't handle it (the info) or me (the person)... same ol' same ol'...



Oddly enough, I'm not especially depressed today. However, I have cut down to two cups of coffee a day for me but I need to go to -0- cups a day (sigh) and one cig a day for me but I need to go to -0- cigs a day... and I have been writing my novel (for this great novel writing challenge thingy I'm doing)... but the dark days are here... sigh... and my son's birthday is this month (his 21st) and I can't be there... and my grandmother's birthday would have been this month (she passed in February) and my 5 year anniversary of being here is this month (and I'm somewhat miserable, as you can see) and and and...

sigh

Nyneve (usually pronounced by me: Ni-NEV),

I don't want to interrupt the work you're doing with Penny, but wanted to offer my support.

Cleaning. I'm not sure cleaning was THE issue, but it sure stirred up a sailor of a demon in me and I would rage through the house. I quit cleaning. I hated that. My husband picked it up.

I tried to discuss it rationally with the family but it wasn't doing any good, and then when I found something severely out of place (usually within 5 seconds of cleaning), I just shut down, rather than rage.

I felt SO disrespected by their lack of care for our home, DH and kids. And guess what? DH got the vast majority of the blame because he's an adult. Yes, I was to blame too, and that came later in the form of depression.

Withdrawing often seems the wrong thing to do, but when you don't have tools other than your head, it's a good way to try to get a bead on things and protect others. While in withdrawal, I worked on how to come out of it without getting hurt again, because that would inevitably happen. DH would think, "Oh, she's cleaning now, now I can stop."

I focused on myself, my needs and my responsibility. I tried to take stock of what DH was doing to help and when he should be absolved of responsibility. I conveyed that I needed him to continue to help clean up, at least until I got more on my feet, and he finally did keep going even though I was pitching in too.

We're seeing the difference.

What did I do with my anger? First, I knew I needed to protect others from it. I felt it, still, and didn't just ignore it, but I tried not to make others feel it. I turned it into a way to get myself out of the situation.

Can I talk about anger from a scientific perspective? There are two types of useful energy: potential energy (E of position) and kinetic (E of motion). Some energy can be lost to the environment and not used at all. Let's say that anger is energy.

When you're maddernhelen, you have a lot of potential energy. When you rage/vent, you're losing a lot of that energy to the environment. When you feel the energy and confess it, you're venting it off only a small amount at a time--like a boiling pot so as to prevent an explosion.

When you decide what to do with it, you convert that potential energy to kinetic energy, and are able to use the build up of pressure in a constructive way.



Regina

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Regina,

Hey awed ,

You know, what Tak wrote and you quoted is lovely, and I thank you.

If I step outside of myself and look, I can believe that I am those things. Sometimes, if I look into my eyes, I see kindness and goodness there... I am not a bad person, I can see that there.

But usually, I don't bother... usually, I stop long before I get to my eyes (which are the only feature of my body that I really do love. They are my grandmother's warm brown eyes and I see her there, as well).

I feel dizzy right now. I'm afraid.

quote:

are a BEAUTIFUL person - a living, breathing, priceless work of art.

Absolutely! And Tak too.

Regina

I'm here too, Nyneve. I can relate to what you and Tak are saying. I think a lot of people can.

I don't know if this will help, but with anger there is fear. You can have fear without anger, but you can't have anger without some kind of fear. When you feel anger, try to identify what the specific fear is. That is scary in itself, isn't it?

quote:

Saying those things about myself... seeing it in writing... makes me feel shame. At the same time, it vindicates and validates me.

Everyone tried to be supportive when I came to Canada, whether they agreed it was the right decision or not. I tried to believe it was right myself, even though a part of me never believed it.

There is a great big coulda-woulda-shoula-umbrella over my head right now.

Now, where do you think the shame comes from? Why do you think the shame emerges? Are you shamed at expressing yourself? Shamed at feeling that? Shamed because you believe you made mistakes?

Why the shame?

Hi Regina,

Thank you for the support.

The problem for me (at this time) is not my fear of rage. I know what that does and have no desire to go there.

I'm so over-protective of my H it's ridiculous. My mother has said it and my therapist has said it. I have a hard time saying anything negative (or even suggesting negativity) because he's so tender-hearted and damaged himself. So, I usually just don't 'go there'... occasionally, I do... always with dubious results, if not devistating.

And I'm not even raging, I'm just talking about my feelings.

I believe he can handle it because he says he can, and then he can't. Again, the desire is there for him, but he has his own issues and goes to his yucky-place and then we've got a muddy, mucky, icky mess to clean up.

I'm just tired and it felt easier to shove it all back in the bag, I guess.

Now I can't. It's overflowing.

quote:

I feel dizzy right now. I'm afraid.

Sometimes it helps me to wrap in a blanket and/or hold a pillow when doing this kind of stuff.

What are you afraid of--right this second?

quote:

You know, what Tak wrote and you quoted is lovely, and I thank you.

I typed it in. It came to mind to describe you. I didn't pen the phrase, though. That would be Steven Curtis Chapman. (And SYMC stops and gasps in collective shock that I'd be able to quote him.)

quote:

I tell you who I am (the collective you) and you bail because you can't handle it (the info) or me (the person)... same ol' same ol'...

Ah, the whole "A Few Good Men" philosophy. "You can't handle the truth." You'd be surprised at what I can handle.

Can you handle the truth, Nyneve? Here's some truth, but you have to interpret "god" within your own belief system. I try to tolerate the "he," because I do not believe Deity has any particular need or use for genitals.


Fingerprints of God

"I can see the tears filling your eyes
And I know where they're coming from
They're coming from a heart that's broken in two
By what you don't see
The person in the mirror
Doesn't look like the magazine
Oh but when I look at you it's clear to me that

I can see the fingerprints of god
When I look at you
I can see the fingerprints of god
And I know it's true
You're a masterpiece
That all creation quietly applauds
And you're covered with the fingerprints of god

Never has there been and never again
Will there be another you
Fashioned by god's hand
And perfectly planned
To be just who you are
And what he's been creating
Since the first beat of your heart
Is a living breathing priceless work of art and

Just look at you
You're a wonder in the making
Oh and god's not through no
In fact he's just getting started"

- Stephen Curtis Chapman

This message has been edited. Last edited by: *Antigone Rising*,

quote:

Originally posted by *Tak* SYMC:
Now, where do you think the shame comes from? Why do you think the shame emerges? Are you shamed at expressing yourself? Shamed at feeling that? Shamed because you believe you made mistakes?

Why the shame?

The shame comes from my mother constantly telling me that I was too talkative and should learn to keep my mouth shut.

She'd say, "Don't you have any pride?"

And then there's the shame of what's to come... the part where I tell you that I never should have come here, that it was a mistake and now I'm stuck here. Trapped.

I love my H sooooooooooooooooooooo much. He is such a loving and dear man. He didn't ask for me to be like this and didn't expect it. I was happy at the beginning. We had all those crazy chemicals that P writes about floating around. We had my retirement money (long gone) and he had a good job. I believed I would be seeing my kids many times a year, that I'd immigrate quickly and easily (pre-9/11), and I'd be a good step-mum to his kids.

None of that has happened.

I've been blessed to see my kids fairly frequently (and we talk all the time) but to be fair, my ex-H has bought me more airline tickets than I've bought myself.

9/11 happened and my immigration came to a stand-still.

My H's divorce agreement looked fine on paper but was (and is) a nightmare to maintain. I won't even go there right now - far too painful. He's bankrupt. We're broke. It's very bad. We hardly ever see his kids and they are damaged in ways I can't explain here (they are now 17 and 14)... we've forged a friendship of sorts, but nothing more.

I think I need to sit back and think a bit here... I seriously am shaking inside.

The problem for me (at this time) is not my fear of rage. I know what that does and have no desire to go there.

That's exactly what kept me in withdrawal for a while. I didn't want to rage, so I shut down. I didn't want to hurt the people around me with my anger.

I'm so over-protective of my H it's ridiculous. My mother has said it and my therapist has said it. I have a hard time saying anything negative (or even suggesting negativity) because he's so tender-hearted and damaged himself. So, I usually just don't 'go there'... occasionally, I do... always with dubious results, if not devistating.

I can understand that, to an extent. You're protecting him at the expense of yourself.

While I say that anger wouldn't do you any good, you might make headway to express your feelings to him and give him time to absorb it. Just a tiny bit at a time.

This is one of the hardest things to do, though.

And I'm not even raging, I'm just talking about my feelings.

Oh boy...I do know what you mean. My husband doesn't need to be handled with kid gloves, but there are times when I express myself with I-feel statements and he is blown over. I've taken to qualifying my qualifiers qualifiers--but I do express myself.

I believe he can handle it because he says he can, and then he can't. Again, the desire is there for him, but he has his own issues and goes to his yucky-place and then we've got a muddy, mucky, icky mess to clean up.

This was another reason I withdrew, but I guess I tried to find the fewest icky messy spots to navigate and found some way to let off my anger so that it accomplished the tasks I needed and wanted.

Keep going, Nyneve. I think your desire seems so great that you're going to find the right course for yourself and your marriage.

Regina

quote:

I think I need to sit back and think a bit here... I seriously am shaking inside.

Wrap up, Nyneve. Wrap the blanket tighter and tighter until it feels good.

Don't think. Relax your mind. When's another time that you felt what you're feeling now?

quote:

And then there's the shame of what's to come... the part where I tell you that I never should have come here, that it was a mistake and now I'm stuck here. Trapped.

I shouldn't have married my husband either. I had sex with him against my better judgment and got pregnant. I wasn't done with college and had no money.

It's been AWFUL.

Do you still like me? I still like and respect you, Nyn. I still like myself (more now than ever). Do you think you can find the you you "used to" be, and be her again? I think you can, even if you don't like this angry side of yourself.

Regina

quote:

The shame comes from my mother constantly telling me that I was too talkative and should learn to keep my mouth shut.

Oh! Oh! Oh! Me, too! Not my mother, my mother figure - my aunt. I got into BIG trouble one time for telling someone that my mother had died. When she asked why, I told her. BIG BIG BIG trouble.

This comes from their fear, Nyneve. This comes from their mask. This comes from them projecting onto you the need to maintain that mask. This comes from them instructing us to maintain the facade...just as I was rewarded for hiding my uncle's actions, while I was punished for lying (what a confusing message, huh?)...

To what degree do you believe this about yourself? What part of you fears that it is true? What part of you tries to reject it?

I'm not scared yet, and I still have your hand. J has my hand and can reel us both in, if need be.

quote:

I think I need to sit back and think a bit here... I seriously am shaking inside.

I know that feeling. I took smoke breaks, but that's because I'm at work.

How about a big, fluffy blanket? Some hot, soothing tea? What's your favorite kind of tea? Mine is what I call "Bear Tea" - Celestial Seasons Sleepy Time, but I also really love "Lion Tea" - Celestial Seasons Madagascar Red. What kind of books do you like? Music?

How do you self-soothe?