Alright darlin' I would love to walk you through the HEALS process but I can see that it's really not all that workable here. For it to be felt it needs more concentration and focus than we can do in this space.

I can tell you, though, that the anger is not about what the country or the employers, or the government are doing. It is about you attempting to hide from your feelings of inadequacy or guilt or unlovableness. It seems much easier to blame our icky stuff on the outside things going on around us. The problem is that when we do that we have no way to improve or heal - because the only one we can affect is ourselves. And so. We stay stuck in being angry and with buried hurts eating at our souls. When we can get quiet and truly feel the hurt then we can work on healing.

Love ya

P

Have a good dinner, Nyneve! I'll check back later.

quote:

Originally posted by Penny_SYMC:
Alright darlin' I would love to walk you through the HEALS process but I can see that it's really not all that workable here. For it to be felt it needs more concentration and focus than we can do in this space.

I can tell you, though, that the anger is not about what the country or the employers, or the government are doing. It is about you attempting to hide from your feelings of inadequacy or guilt or unlovableness. It seems much easier to blame our icky stuff on the outside things going on around us. The problem is that when we do that we have no way to improve or heal - because the only one we can affect is ourselves. And so. We stay stuck in being angry and with buried hurts eating at our souls. When we can get quiet and truly feel the hurt then we can work on healing.

Love ya

P

Well, bummer, bummer, bummer. I'm disappointed. I'd hoped for some exercises of some kind.

The second paragraph... sigh... . Are you saying that I can't just be angry at some things that are external? Are you saying that, for example, the gov't not allowing my son to come into the country is about MY hurts?

To take it deeper, when I was molested, is my anger at the molester about ME, or about HER? I can understand my core value being attacked and my core hurts being triggered by it, but ultimately, SHE HURT ME. Isn't that enough on its own?

Am I seriously this confused?

Oh, and Penny, I love you, too!

Are you ok with continuing with this tonight?

Can you take good care of yourself tonight? Is your counselor (or another capable support person) available by phone if you need it?

I've read through this all... more or less anyway. You're very brave right now Nyneve. Looking internally has been THE hardest part of this journey for me. I posted the following on your "deep thinker" thread....

quote:

I've avoided that anger for so long that I've had to do this in baby steps.

First I had to accept that it's okay for me to be angry. Last night I even told my H I was angry w/ him b/c he was later getting here than he said he would be.

Then I had to let myself BE angry. I had to know what it felt like. I had to recognize the psychological and physicality of anger. I didn't know how I felt when I was angry. I didn't know what to do with it, I had to play it by ear.

Once I could let myself feel the anger, I had to decide what to do with it. What's worked for me is to first let myself be angry. If I need to cry, I cry. If I need to stomp around the house, I stomp. If I need to scream (usually into a pillow), I scream. If I need to vent to someone... ahhh there's the tricky part.

Everything else was done with me in solitary. Could I let someone else know I was angry... even if it wasn't at them? What would they think of me harboring these mean/bad/negative emotions???!!! Well, come to find out, everyone gets mad. Other people are gonna "get" your anger. Huh...imagine that.

So the next step after talking about my anger with someone neutral was confronting someone I was angry with. How to do that. Luckily by the time I got to this step I had found this SYMC.

It's still very hard for me to speak up with my emotions-- like you any emotion was scary. Didn't matter if it was happy or sad-- it was still a negative thing to show it "too much."

Like I said, that all happened in babysteps. It didn't happen in that specific order or all in one sitting. It took a few months of stops and starts and failed attempts. I'm finally to a point now I can honestly say I'm not afraid of my anger anymore. And that's been wonderfully freeing in almost every other emotion as well.

There is still that little voice in the back of my head that says, "It's bad to be angry." But i've learned what I need to do to quiet that voice and take care of me. And that's what it boils down to--- ya gotta find your "thing" that gives you value. You can call it a mantra, it can be a routine to find your peaceful spot... try it all, find what works for you.

I wish I could be more specific, but it's such a personal journey there isn't a step by step do-this and you'll be healed plan. Sure would be nice if there were though!!!!

Anger's natural purpose is to protect our loved ones from immediate harm. Like neighboring cannibals or saber tooth tigers.

Anger's chemical properties are such that you get a burst of energy. Energy to either stand and fight the neighboring cannibals or to run like heck from the tiger. Cuz really - there's not a lot of point to having a conversation with the tiger about his core hurts and feelings of inadequacy about feeding his family!

The problem comes in when we use that chemical energy burst as a way to hide from our feelings of inner hurt - powerlessness, inadequacy, unlovableness.....

So - I had something similar with my son recently. A person of authority did something horribly unethical to further his needs. He lied to me about a situation with my son that ended up with my son being in a not so great place. But the worst part of it was that because I had contact with this person and I told my son it was safe he was only there because he trusted me.

It's not the same as the situation with your son - but the underlying emotional elements are the same. I'm wondering if, when the gov't said your son was not welcome in Canada, your anger wasn't a way to cover your own pain coming from guilt, shame, unlovability - because your actions put your son in a position to be refused. See what I mean? Yes it seems right to be angry when our children are somehow harmed - as both our sons were. And yet - the anger is a way to not have to feel our own sense of failure as a parent. After all - good parents don't tell their kids something is safe when it's not. Good parents don't move away to a different country where their children will not be welcome. Only really bad uncaring parents do things like that. Parents that end up on Jerry Springer......

I too was molested. As a child most likely ritually although I have no cognizant memories only symptoms and body memories. And later as a high school student by a teacher.

The first anger is one of self survival - the need to fight or to run. That goes back to the natural purpose of anger. However, anger that lingers is about us. It's a way to not feel vulnerable, dirty, unworthy, empty, unlovable, lost. It's a way to keep from looking at the dark space that lives, oh so quietly, behind the anger. The space that feels as if it will suck us in and destroy us.

P

How are you doing, Nyneve?

Hi, and LB,, don't worry, I'm okay.

I told my H all about this thread and invited him to read it. He will, later.

I feel less hot, less frazzled, and less afraid.

jasens, Yes, I remember your post on my deep-thinking thread. I remember it mostly because we talked about baby steps. I think I jumped right into giant steps, huh?

Penny, I understand what you're saying about the core message I hear in my soul about being a bad parent. Yes, that makes sense.

Hmmm... I think the number 1 feeling I have with regard to moving away from my family is that I let my kids down.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating:

I seriously, sincerely thought I handled it well (at the time).

My daughters had both graduated high school and my son had just begun a program of home schooling specific to his special needs. He was a 16 year old male and I thought he should be with his father. Also, although I never thought I'd have to sign a contract stating so, I knew for awhile at least, my son would not have the help he needed to graduate high school in Canada.

I didn't leave my kids with a hobo on the corner, I left them with their FATHER.

We had several counseling sessions (the kids and me - their father wouldn't participate). I was given their expressed "blessing" (I feel sick writing that now - of course they were being brave and wanted me to be happy).

My H has often said that I am not blaming the right person for what happened with my kids after I left. I loathe blaming my ex because he was devistated when I left and barely functioned at all for two years. He dropped the ball on our son's therapies and put our daughter's in the position of a kind of "surrogate wife and mother". Nobody told me what was happening until much later. Years later, regarding some situations.

My first H and I were married young. I felt mature at thier age(s) and thought my daughter's (especially) were like me and could handle adult responsibilities.

Well, I was wrong. I see that now. Yes, I've apologized, made amends in every conceivable way possible. Thankfully, I have maintained a loving and beautiful relationship with my kids and a friendly (though awkward, at times) relationship with my ex. Nobody is blaming anybody - well, except me blaming me.

I remember a poster on MB who constantly seemed to be in my face to tell me what a horrible mother I was for leaving my children. Once, there was a 20 page thread of people going back and forth - for or against me. It was awful. So much drama.

I have to tell you that today, writing this stuff all out, has shown me something. I have said that I did the best I could with what was in me at the time... today, I finally believe it. I really did.

I just miss my kids. I miss them so much and my arms ache for hugs from them. I miss them... that's all.

I can't remember if there were other specific questions. I'll go back through later and see, perhaps tomorrow. I am feeling fine right now, and I'm safe. I have my therapist at the touch of the phone, if necessary, and my H is here. I'm not suicidal in any way (plus, I have too much to live for). Please don't worry.

I wasn't worried. I was interested.

Nyneve,

Please remember how to connect to the feeling you get when you think about how much your children love you. I've learned that it helps to go there often during this work. Baby steps or giant leaps forward do not matter so long as you go at a pace that is healthy for you. You might stay in the same spot for a day or two - or seven - and then leap forward. I've made leaps that hurt less than baby steps.

It isn't a steady pace or rhythum. It isn't a race. It is about moving towards a goal. Sometimes, it will feel like you've taken a few steps back. As I said to J, as long as the trendline is generally towards the goal, I'm ok with it.

Just so you know, I'm here reading.

I think it's really interesting to see how your posts have changed over the course of today, Nyn. From flaming white rage and fury about not being able to find work through the shaking and horror and nausea of "I'm not good enough" to the profound sadness and guilt of "I didn't do right by my kids."

In some pretty serious ways, you've actually done the first two or three steps of HEALS. You've felt the rage, then the underlying core hurts. You've named them, with P's help.

Now, the next part is to get in touch with the core values. That's the part where you meditate on

Comforting children
The faces of the people you love
Your community (Hi! I'm part of your community!)
Beauty in nature
Beauty in man
Your works of compassion
What's most important about you
Your connection to a higher power

So.... how about running through those for us? Talk about each of those things in this context, or in any context. I know many of the things that give you joy, because I've read your stuff for a good while now. I'm interested in what catches your attention today. I'd like to know, please!

quote:

I have to tell you that today, writing this stuff all out, has shown me something. I have said that I did the best I could with what was in me at the time... today, I finally believe it. I really did.

Yes, you really did. Now, have you forgiven yourself? I learned the hard way, a long time ago, that admitting you did the best you could and forgiving yourself for being human aren't the same thing. Maybe "forgiving" isn't the right word, but I hope you know what I mean. Maybe reconciling or accepting are better terms.

This will be my last post today. My H did read the thread and it prompted some good discussion.

He's watching Wayne's World right now... and um... while I have an appreciation for Steven Tyler, shirtless, singing "Dude Looks Like A Lady"... I'm not a huge Garth and Wayne fan... although I do like Heather Locklear <no schwing for me, it's just that I think she's pretty> .

quote:

Originally posted by Just J_SYMC:
Now, the next part is to get in touch with the core values. That's the part where you meditate on

Comforting children
The faces of the people you love
Your community (Hi! I'm part of your community!)
Beauty in nature
Beauty in man
Your works of compassion
What's most important about you
Your connection to a higher power

So.... how about running through those for us? Talk about each of those things in this context, or in any context. I know many of the things that give you joy, because I've read your stuff for a good while now. I'm interested in what catches your attention today. I'd like to know, please!

Comforting children~ I talked to my oldest daughter twice today. She's having a problem that only Mom can help her solve. Bliss.

The faces of the people you love~ In the novel I'm writing, there is a character that reminds me of me (they say to write what you know! lol)... and she talks about the pictures on her wall and on her dresser... she describes faces... and I could see the faces of my family as I wrote, and it felt nice.

Your community (Hi! I'm part of your community!)~ Hi community, how ya doin'? I came here today and checked on Tak's thread, and as you very well know (since it was in response to something you said) it was time to bring up my own issue instead of muck up Tak's thread with my issue. I thought about it for awhile and realized it was time to talk about my anger. I could have gone to my deep-thinking thread, but this felt different, new. So, here I am and here you are. Thank you community. I feel pretty special right now.

Beauty in nature~ Tess (our dear feline) has a perch by the window. Really, it's plastic storage containers covered with carpet, but it's her perch to see the outside world. I leaned out and watched as the wind whipped the remaining leaves off the trees. It was seasonably warm today (sweater only, no winter coat needed) and the sun was shining when it wasn't drizzling. The streets are covered with leaves and puddles. It's gorgeous.

Beauty in man~ I had three people write to me personally to see if I was okay today. I suppose this could go into "community" but it's like they individually wanted to make sure I was okay.

Right now, I am looking at my H on the couch, our Tess behind him on the ledge with her 'arm' hanging down. He is stroking her fur and they both look so content. Beauty in man. My man.

Your works of compassion~ Today, I'm afraid I wasn't very compassionate. I got myself my grandmother's afghan and wrapped it around me? Does self-compassion qualify? I made my H's lunch for tomorrow... let's see... what else? Nothin'... but a couple of things there.

What's most important about you~ Finding inner peace, healing my body and soul, maintaining a loving, healthy relationship with my H, children and extended family and friends. Having honor and integrity in all of my doings.

Your connection to a higher power~ Uh oh. Negligible. I thank God easily for blessings, and ask God for healing, and pray for others...but other than that... it's not meaningful. I miss that.

PS: NO, this is my last post!

Tak, forgiven myself? I hope so. Tonight I feel that I have... I hope it sticks.

So let's back up a little (if you still want to work on/talk about this).

Go back to the place of "underneath the anger at the gov't, what I'm feeling (or felt at the time) was inadequate and unlovable as a parent. Because really good parents don't do things that put their kids in this sort of situation and therefore I must be a really rotten parent."

Feel what that feels like. It's entirely different than anger. Instead of the physical rush of energy that comes with anger (tightening of muscles, tunnel vision, need to move). It feels quieter, darker, and sadder. Muscles go slack, there's a sinking feeling in your stomach..... Feel that. Feel the lost terror of my child is hurting because of what I did.

Sit with that for a full five seconds. That's a really long time to try to hold this feeling without anger or distraction.

Yes - stop reading and do it.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
NOW go to that place of grounding and value.

What it feels like to rescue the child in the desert.

Beauty in nature, beauty created by humans.

Community - how it supports you and how you support it in return.

The people you love.

Compassionate things you have done in the last week.

The most important thing about you.

Connection to Spirit.

Do the same with these - connect and feel them. This is about experiencing connection - not thinking about it. So let the emotions flow through you - feel your heart swell with love. Let your ears dance with the memory of your favorite music. Or your eyes get happy when you recall a piece of Art. Feel how good it is to be part of community. Feel it.

Now look at the issue with the gov't and your son. Did this happen because you are a bad parent or because policies in the gov't are created out of fear and prejudice?

Are you more likely to find ways to be there for your son, and your d's and your entire family when you are connected to self and grounded or when you are devalued and reactive?

Can you feel compassion for the woman who did everything she could to create a safe and happy home for her children even though she might do it differently today? Can see that even though she might have acted from a place of disconnnect she truly truly loves her children and will always come back to working for their best interests?

When you connect to that understanding and compassion for where you were and where you are now - stop for a minute and give some contemplation to one or two small things you can do to make the situation better today. Maybe a phone call or a card to your son. Maybe writing a letter to the paper about your situation - helping others see that changes need to be made. Maybe just doing something really wonderful for you so that you have more love to give your family. Just one or two small things - that's all that's needed for today.



P

quote:

So, here I am and here you are. Thank you community. I feel pretty special right now.

It's nice to smile early in the morning. This made me smile.

Your work yesterday was beautiful, Nyneve. Do you mind if I put you and your work on my HEALS stuff under Beauty Created by Humans?

Good Morning!

LB, you go right ahead. Thanks for asking first... but you really needn't have... what I've done here is public, and it touched you, so you really didn't need my permission.

So, this morning my H and I talked a lot before he went to work.

I've been working on this novel challenge thingy - the challenge is to write 50,000 words by November 30th. More on that later.

Yesterday, because I was here so much, I didn't do my work on the novel during the day, which I had in the previous days, so I worked on it last night and he was feeling a little ignored.

He read this thread, at my request, and understood everything perfectly. Not much was surprising to him... in fact, I can't remember if anything was at all. He knows he struggles and has triggers. He really is a LOT like me, which is good for understanding each other, but bad because we're both so darned sensitive that misunderstandings are frequent (but solved easily). I'm not sure that makes sense, but I know what I mean.

Today, I worked on my novel already. I did my quota for the day. I'm up to 5895 words, yay ME! .

I'm here for a few minutes now, but I have plans this afternoon to go to the library to turn in my books and take some pictures of the squirrels (there are dozens hanging around gathering stuff for the winter and I just happen to have something yummy for them - nuts! - as a bribe to come see me, you know.

Anyway, here I am, now...

quote:

Originally posted by Penny_SYMC:
So let's back up a little (if you still want to work on/talk about this).

I know my work isn't done, not by a long shot.

quote:

Go back to the place of "underneath the anger at the gov't, what I'm feeling (or felt at the time) was inadequate and unlovable as a parent. Because really good parents don't do things that put their kids in this sort of situation and therefore I must be a really rotten parent."

Right.

quote:

Feel what that feels like.

It feels s****y. (Fill the **'s in with whatever fits)

quote:

It's entirely different than anger. Instead of the physical rush of energy that comes with anger (tightening of muscles, tunnel vision, need to move). It feels quieter, darker, and sadder. Muscles go slack, there's a sinking feeling in your stomach..... Feel that. Feel the lost terror of my child is hurting because of what I did.

Yes.

quote:

Sit with that for a full five seconds. That's a really long time to try to hold this feeling without anger or distraction.

Okay, I did it.

quote:

NOW go to that place of grounding and value.

What it feels like to rescue the child in the desert.

EMPOWERING, NURTURING AND RIGHT.

Beauty in nature, beauty created by humans.

SUNSHINE AND COOL BREEZES AND BEING AT ONE WITH IT ALL.

Community - how it supports you and how you support it in return.

I'M HERE, YOU'RE HERE, WE'RE ALL HERE, WHERE WE BELONG AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME.

The people you love.

First word that came to mind: EVERYONE. Is that the right answer? (Kidding! )

Compassionate things you have done in the last week.

WRITTEN TO PEOPLE HERE, ON EMAIL.
TALKED ON THE PHONE WITH MY KIDS, MY SISTER AND MY MOTHER.
HELD MY HUSBAND
HELD MY CAT
HELD MYSELF

The most important thing about you.

I AM WORTHY OF HEALING

Connection to Spirit.

IT (HE, SHE) IS EVERYWHERE

quote:

Now look at the issue with the gov't and your son. Did this happen because you are a bad parent or because policies in the gov't are created out of fear and prejudice?

The latter.

quote:

Are you more likely to find ways to be there for your son, and your d's and your entire family when you are connected to self and grounded or when you are devalued and reactive?

I can focus better on them when I'm not focused on outside forces.

quote:

Can you feel compassion for the woman who did everything she could to create a safe and happy home for her children even though she might do it differently today? Can see that even though she might have acted from a place of disconnnect she truly truly loves her children and will always come back to working for their best interests?

Very, very true. I love them with my entire being.

quote:

When you connect to that understanding and compassion for where you were and where you are now - stop for a minute and give some contemplation to one or two small things you can do to make the situation better today. Maybe a phone call or a card to your son. Maybe writing a letter to the paper about your situation - helping others see that changes need to be made. Maybe just doing something really wonderful for you so that you have more love to give your family. Just one or two small things - that's all that's needed for today.

Seriously, I've been doing these things already. Every once in awhile I am able to pull myself up and DO... in spite of how I'm feeling... so I've done...

But this does spark a desire to try again with the newspapers... honestly, I sent my story out about three years ago, and again a few months ago. No bites. I think I'll revisit the article and see what can be tweeked to get it out there... thanks!

back atcha, P.

My 24 year old daughter just called to thank me for yesterday. Remember I said she called? Well, she called the one time and then when I called back last night to talk to her brother, he wasn't in, but she sounded miserable so we talked some more...

I bet I spent two hours with her on the phone yesterday, which is unheard of since she hates the phone...

But she called today to thank me. She said she took my advice about her problem and that it was the right thing to do. She sounded SO much better.

I was Mom yesterday, as I am today, and my daughter loves and respects me.

My kids are always wonderful... and loving... but to be told thank you, for being her mother... priceless.

quote:

Tak, forgiven myself? I hope so. Tonight I feel that I have... I hope it sticks.

This is how it's worked for me, Nyne.

I forgive myself. That huge burden is removed from my chest and I can breathe now. Whew!

But then, life creeps back in and I do something and every bad thing I've done along that line comes flooding back to my memory.

I have to remind myself that I've already forgiven myself for the past and that it is gone--that wrongdoing/failure/etc. This new stuff is NEW, and it's different from before. Maybe it wasn't quite as bad or I didn't have as much information. There's something about it that caused the failure and not just me. And even if it was "all my fault" it doesn't add to the old pile because it's all been hauled off.

Now the pile is smaller and I need to forgive myself for the new failure. Easier than last time, right?

When phantom garbage heaps trigger your smell response, remember it's not real and smell the flowers instead. Hehe. I hope that makes sense.

Just remember that forgiveness can't be revoked.

Regina