My H and I are about to embark on quite a journey.
We are about to start MC on march 1.

I have done both MC as well as IC, my H has never done either. I have not done IC since I married my H.

Has anyone else here done MC w/ a serial cheater?

I need support and help.
xo
H

me-42 yr o
H (WS)-46 yr o
met-feb 2001
M 06-23-01
BabyLuv born 01-24-02

absolute affairs (EA and/or PA) to date-3
two of these are reoccurring for the past three years, one of which is w/ X-W

susupected other affiars- 2

I may have been one of the OW, the one that got pregnant.

[This message was edited by *hypatia on Sun March 07 2004 at 11:12 AM.]

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[This message was edited by *hypatia on Tue March 23 2004 at 06:25 AM.]

It has been a tough last couple of days.
I am so confused.
The person that my H presented to the MC was squeaky clean. He did a very good job "expressing him self" to the MC.
Imagine that.
He attempted to illustrate a jealous, paranoid, wounded by the past wife.
I tried very hard to present the facts and only the facts. I think that I did well. Of course, there were a few slip-ups, but I apologized and reworded.
The MC did, at the beginning of the session, say that any and all "affairs" had to stop immediately. I asked her to define " affair" and she did incorperate what we call EAs.
my H said that "when you put it that way....."
Unfortunately, during the closing of the session, the MC said to me that unless I found concrete proff like a hotel bill...... Silly woman, doesn't she realize that not all affairs involve a hotel room? And to have left that closing thought of affairs in my H's mind, instead of perhaps "as I said all EAs must stop immediately". I feel that the statement of Hotel receipts will stick more than the impact of an EA on a marraige w/ my H. Concluding statements are often remembered more than opening ones.

So, she did suggest that we "hear" one another better using the statement " I hear that you are anxious/afraid/ angry/etc. What can I do to help you feel more .......?"

I did bring up the cell phone bill when she said concrete evidence/ Hotel receipt. Of course my H can not remember ever having made the call to OW-b at 8:11 pm on Feb 13 while we were out to dinner. I do not know if he truly can not remember or......
He was taken aback that I had looked at the cell phone bills. He was even more taken aback when I asked why he had shredded the receipt from shopping for V-day. He rarely shreds receipts, they typically get wabbed up and tossed on his bureau or into his top drawer. If they are shredded eventually, it is typically months later. I did not have an opportunity to point this out as the session was over and the beloved red herrings started to fly.

The MC suggested that we each keep a journnal as a means of sorting and venting. Also, use the journal to write down anything we want to cover in our next session. She asked that we do not bring up anything w/ one another until the next session.
I personally have several loss ends that were touched upon, misrepresented etc that I feel need to be revisited.

Oh, the MC did suggest that I need to simply trust my H.
right
I told her that I have attempted that many times only to have that trust shot down repeatedly.

I am so confused and very sad.
I know that this will not happen over night.

Ask me questions, I am muddled.

me-42 yr o
H (WS)-46 yr o
met-feb 2001
M 06-23-01
BabyLuv born 01-24-02

absolute affairs (EA and/or PA) to date-3
two of these are reoccurring for the past three years, one of which is w/ X-W

susupected other affiars- 2

I may have been one of the OW, the one that got pregnant.

Hyp

Do you share the same MC as well as the same IC?
If not are they in the same practice so they could consult with each other?

You need to be able to express your concerns and views on what you think your husband is like without him being right there to protest it.

For that matter he should have the same chance.

Something sticks out one what you posted. While the percentage of adults who are actually NPD (Narcissist Personality Disorder) is relatively low.....your post indicates he has many of the traits.

http://dslweb.nwnexus.com/jmashmun/npd/dsm-iv.html#npd

Read the link and see what you think.....keep in mind he must routinely and significantly display at least 5 of the listed traits to meet the clinical criteria of NPD listed in the DSM-IV.

I think that you should schedule a individual session with the MC.

This is why Penny talks to each spouse individually and then gets together at the end for a synopsis of homework.

____________________________
met 6-2-99, engaged 6-2-00, married 6-2-01, H moves out 3-26-02, H moves home 5-27-02, Recovered

The significant problems we face can not be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them. - Albert Einstein

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get a different result. Persistence is great, but you must persist with something that works.

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. - Albert Einstein

It isn't what is done to us that defines us, it is how we respond to it. - Takola

Good Morning Stunned,
Well, I was FINALLY brave enough to read the article you posted.

The reason I wrote, when you brought up NPD, that that was not wahat I wanted to hear Is because I would so like to hold hope in my heart for our marraige.
I am not ready to think about a situation that seems right now insurmountable.
From reading the article, I have found some renewed hope. I have not read before that there are two types of NPD.
1) brought on during the developemental early years
and
2) a later learned behavioral pattern.

So, today, I am hoping that IF my H is NPD, that it is a behavioral pattern that he has learned in later years as a survival technique.

Is it possible that the trauma of a divorce would bring on such behavioral traits?

oh yes, and Stunned,
Happy cyber-platonic hugs to you.
xo
Hyp

me-42 yr o
H (WS)-46 yr o
met-feb 2001
M 06-23-01
BabyLuv born 01-24-02

absolute affairs (EA and/or PA) to date-3
two of these are reoccurring for the past three years, one of which is w/ X-W

susupected other affiars- 2

I may have been one of the OW, the one that got pregnant.

At the very beginnng of our first session of MC, after reading the history/info packets that both my H and I filled out inorder to do MC, the MC asked whether or not we were both aware of the other's history. We both answered yes. I can only assume that my H had been open and honest w/ his packet. The MC then commented on my "violent" childhood. I acknowledged it, w/ out discomfort as I feel not shame for my past.

Later in the session, my "violent" past ws brought up by the MC as to a reason way I have apparent trust issues in my marriage.
I was offended that my childhood was mentioned as a reason for the turmoil in our marraige and yet my H's childhood/past was not.

Thru out our three year relationship, my H has periodically "used" my past in what seems like an excuse to dismiss his responcibility and my reactions to his behavior. At one point, he did some research into bi-polar disorder, attempting to explain for himself when I was soooo sad and angry. He could simply not understand or respect that the state of our marriage ws causing me great sorrow and stress. He has also attempted to convince himself that I cannot possibly be a good parent because I am the product of rather not-good parenting. These are simply a few examples of what seems to me a shifting of responcibility and dismisssing of responcibility on my huband's part.

Now, I will never claim that I am faultless in the state of our marraige as it stands today. But, to have what feels like to me an unfair amount of negative responcibility put into my lap, well, I feel very ofended and disrespectfully judged.

How do I state in our next MC that I ws offended and began to discount the MC's methods when she pointed out ONLY my childhood and seemingly took little or no concideration of my H's past into account?

Oh yes, I believe that the statement that the MC made to me during the closing of our 1st session, regarding my needing to simply trust my H stems from this. I feel that was a very unfair statement/suggestion on the MC's part.

What to do?

me-42 yr o
H (WS)-46 yr o
met-feb 2001
M 06-23-01
BabyLuv born 01-24-02

absolute affairs (EA and/or PA) to date-3
two of these are reoccurring for the past three years, one of which is w/ X-W

susupected other affiars- 2

I may have been one of the OW, the one that got pregnant.

Almost all people having affairs will display symptoms of NPD. You can't judge based on what they do during the time they are involved with someone else - or obsessing about such. For a personality disorder to accurately diagnosed as such the symptomology needs to have been present over the course of many years and in varied circumstances. Personality disorders are, in my opinion and in that of other experts, diagnosed far too frequently and erroneously.

P

It Takes A Village To Save A Marriage

labeling another person can be all too often an easy means to dismiss one's own behavior in a situation.

I am trying very hard not to pigeon hole my H into any catagories, especailly NPD, becasue as I have sttated before, NPD seems so insurmountable and secondly, Labeling leaves less hope and trust in the future.

Unfortunately, In my quest to better understand and respect where my H is coming from/to better see his perspective, added w/ his VERY private nature, I am left guessing all too often. This is when exploring various personality disorders has atleast shed some light onto personality quirks my H exhibits.
As I do (or at least try to do) w/ all learning in the realm of human nature, I read as many opinions as possible, shift, weed, ponder, dismiss, reread, deny, look at the queston I started w/ to begin w/, reponder, deny, dismiss, etc.

I have NEVER accused my H of having and personality disorder. Especailly to his face. I personally know how badly this hurts and closes one down. Especailly coming from an armchair psychologist/Monday morning quarterback.

If I have a personality disorder, I want a professional to diagnose and help me.
I can only assume the same for my H.

Neither my H or the MC know me well enough to know whether or not my "violent" childhood has impacted our marraige to any degree.

So, what to do?

me-42 yr o
H (WS)-46 yr o
met-feb 2001
M 06-23-01
BabyLuv born 01-24-02

absolute affairs (EA and/or PA) to date-3
two of these are reoccurring for the past three years, one of which is w/ X-W

susupected other affiars- 2

I may have been one of the OW, the one that got pregnant.

Takola posted this on another thread about exposing an affair.
If a spouse refuses to bring ANY opposite sex friendship (or same-sex friendship for that matter) under the enthusiastic agreement of the other spouse, that relationship is a detriment to the marriage, is being given a higher priority than the marital relationship, and needs to be exposed and addressed appropriately.

This is how I feel 100%.
But, it seems at this point, that our MC does not feel this way, and my H sure as h*ll doesn't feel this way.
Should I bring up whether or not my H has spoken to OW-1 and OW-2 since our last MC session and ask whether or not he took the MC's suggestion to put them off as he is working on the marraige talking to THEM would not be in the best interest of the marraige? Or do i wait for the MC to bring it up?

I am itching to know, and I feel that I have the right to know.
Right?

me-42 yr o
H (WS)-46 yr o
met-feb 2001
M 06-23-01
BabyLuv born 01-24-02

absolute affairs (EA and/or PA) to date-3
two of these are reoccurring for the past three years, one of which is w/ X-W

susupected other affiars- 2

I may have been one of the OW, the one that got pregnant.

bumpin' up.
any sort of guidance, insight, do not do..., anyhting would be helpful

pretty please

me-42 yr o
H (WS)-46 yr o
met-feb 2001
M 06-23-01
BabyLuv born 01-24-02

absolute affairs (EA and/or PA) to date-3
two of these are reoccurring for the past three years, one of which is w/ X-W

susupected other affiars- 2

I may have been one of the OW, the one that got pregnant.

Well, non-confrontational me, would opt for the wait-n-see approach. Or I might say to the counselor, "Last session you asked how my childhood may affect or effect the current marraige situation. I'd be interested in hearing what my spouse thinks his childhood contributed to our current situation."

This approach allows you to steer and balance the discussion without becoming adversarial. If you try to bring balance and look for insight, and the MC stonewalls you, says his childhood didn't contribute, etc. you'll know what you're dealing with.

I love the "trust" thing. Like "the fun's gone out", trust seems like a knee-jerk response for some family counselors. And building trust is a difficult process that few people really understand.

**************************************
For gnarling sorrow hath less power to bite
The man that mocks at it and sets it light.

The Bard

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Anne:
Well, non-confrontational me, would opt for the wait-n-see approach. Or I might say to the counselor, "Last session you asked how my childhood may affect or effect the current marraige situation. I'd be interested in hearing what my spouse thinks his childhood contributed to our current situation."

ooo I am liking that wording dear Annie.
Mind if I write it down in my take-to-MC-journal?

This approach allows you to steer and balance the discussion without becoming adversarial. If you try to bring balance and look for insight, and the MC stonewalls you, says his childhood didn't contribute, etc. you'll know what you're dealing with.

Let us all hope and pray that there are no stonewalls thrown up by either the MC or my H.

If a stonewall is thrown up, what do I do or say? anything or nothing?

I love the "trust" thing. Like "the fun's gone out", trust seems like a knee-jerk response for some family counselors. And building trust is a difficult process that few people really understand.

I would like to think that the MC at least understands the sometimes difficult nuances of trust and the loss of trust.
Silly me , I have known and have been very happily validated in my belief that trust, especially once stomped all over, must be re-earned and proven worthy. In all honesty, until I began to hang out w/ youz galz, and guyz , I thought i was over the top w/ that thought. I truly thought that I had trust issues. Come to find out, I do a pretty darned good job concidering where I've been .
Yah yah yah, I could stand some improvements, but, hey, I am darned proud of how far I have come.

me-42 yr o
H (WS)-46 yr o
met-feb 2001
M 06-23-01
BabyLuv born 01-24-02

absolute affairs (EA and/or PA) to date-3
two of these are reoccurring for the past three years, one of which is w/ X-W

susupected other affiars- 2

I may have been one of the OW, the one that got pregnant.

quote:

---

---

How do I state in our next MC that I ws offended and began to discount the MC's methods when she pointed out ONLY my childhood and seemingly took little or no concideration of my H's past into account?

Well kudos for the MC having you do history packets with your issues in advance......after that I sort of soured on her repeated past and needing to simply trust.

Most MC are well aware that trust is something that has to be restored not simply rebooted.

Secondly your past other than how it pertains to how he feels about it and how it affects your interaction with him should be discussed seperately.

There is significance with your past and forgiveness. BUT the MC should have you in IC to explore forgiveness issues and past childhood abuse.

HOWEVER the big had more than one affair elephant sitting next to your husband should have been taken into account first.

Plus in my don't have a degree for two more years but did stay at a Holiday Inn Express self....it should not have been introduced in front of your husband. He might use it as a crutch to minimize his accountability in regards to his multiple affairs.

Now let me point out a few things.

Don't take this wrong or as being judgemental cause that is not what is happening. Could you have been overly sensitive....hear me out before throwing cyber rotten tomatoes at my profile.

In a first session you are going to have a ton of different emotions. You will anxious meeting for the first time, worried about what your husband will say, what you will say, what will the MC think about all of this, will have to make concessions or accept some fault and so on.

Its possible that the exchange was not as one sided as you thought because of all these intense emotions. That perhaps you were so on edge so eager to have the MC side with you or support your view that any less than positive was internalized and percieved as a negative.

Just playing devils advocate for a moment.

As far as telling your MC what you felt I would without hesitation. One that is what they are paid for. Two it could have been a misunderstanding that can easily be explained.

Make a list of your concerns with the marriage, and make a list of your concerns about your sessions, and bring them up respectfully, but confidently.

____________________________
met 6-2-99, engaged 6-2-00, married 6-2-01, H moves out 3-26-02, H moves home 5-27-02, Recovered

The significant problems we face can not be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them. - Albert Einstein

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get a different result. Persistence is great, but you must persist with something that works.

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. - Albert Einstein

It isn't what is done to us that defines us, it is how we respond to it. - Takola

gotcha!
thanx

me-42 yr o
H (WS)-46 yr o
met-feb 2001
M 06-23-01
BabyLuv born 01-24-02

absolute affairs (EA and/or PA) to date-3
two of these are reoccurring for the past three years, one of which is w/ X-W

susupected other affiars- 2

I may have been one of the OW, the one that got pregnant.

And then BabyLuv was up from 11pm until 5:10 am, soooo sick.
He has just settles down and resting comfortably.
My mother is still going to watch him while my H and I go to MC.
I am hoping that I will be able to review all that I have wrttine during the past week before we go.
I am also hoping for a nap.

me-42 yr o
H (WS)-46 yr o
met-feb 2001
M 06-23-01
BabyLuv born 01-24-02

absolute affairs (EA and/or PA) to date-3
two of these are reoccurring for the past three years, one of which is w/ X-W

susupected other affiars- 2

I may have been one of the OW, the one that got pregnant.

well, I am off, w/ two hours sleep and a very sick baby boy to worry about.

Gosh a hug would feel soooo good right now.

me-42 yr o
H (WS)-46 yr o
met-feb 2001
M 06-23-01
BabyLuv born 01-24-02

absolute affairs (EA and/or PA) to date-3
two of these are reoccurring for the past three years, one of which is w/ X-W

susupected other affiars- 2

I may have been one of the OW, the one that got pregnant.

Consider yourself hugged!

{{{Hypatia}}}

____________________________
met 6-2-99, engaged 6-2-00, married 6-2-01, H moves out 3-26-02, H moves home 5-27-02, Recovered

The significant problems we face can not be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them. - Albert Einstein

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get a different result. Persistence is great, but you must persist with something that works.

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. - Albert Einstein

It isn't what is done to us that defines us, it is how we respond to it. - Takola

quote:

---

Originally posted by stunned-dad:
Consider yourself hugged!

---

cyber platonic, of course
back atcha! Stunned

me-42 yr o
H (WS)-46 yr o
met-feb 2001
M 06-23-01
BabyLuv born 01-24-02

absolute affairs (EA and/or PA) to date-3
two of these are reoccurring for the past three years, one of which is w/ X-W

susupected other affiars- 2

I may have been one of the OW, the one that got pregnant.

[This message was edited by *hypatia on Wed March 10 2004 at 08:39 AM.]