Where do I start then? I want to save our marriage but I don't know what to do.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
One day at a time.

Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible.



Me: 24
Him: 25
Married: May 31,2003
Separated: March 1,2004

http://groups.msn.com/OurWeddingPhotos/presentingmrandmrsmatthewharris.msnw

Start by reading this.

Infidelity Overview

____________________________
met 6-2-99, engaged 6-2-00, married 6-2-01, H moves out 3-26-02, H moves home 5-27-02, Recovered

The significant problems we face can not be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them. - Albert Einstein

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get a different result. Persistence is great, but you must persist with something that works.

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. - Albert Einstein

It isn't what is done to us that defines us, it is how we respond to it. - Takola

I was pretty much "drop kicked" into the protection phase....never really had a chance for the Intervention phase. So does this mean I start from the protection phase or can I start the intervention phase?

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
One day at a time.

Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible.



Me: 24
Him: 25
Married: May 31,2003
Separated: March 1,2004

http://groups.msn.com/OurWeddingPhotos/presentingmrandmrsmatthewharris.msnw

You aren't in Protection Phase. Protection Phase is characterized by no contact between the spouses. There is a letter (format letter, btw) sent to your spouse that explains what you are doing and why.

Yes, you need to do an Intervention Phase.

____________________________
met 6-2-99, engaged 6-2-00, married 6-2-01, H moves out 3-26-02, H moves home 5-27-02, Recovered

The significant problems we face can not be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them. - Albert Einstein

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get a different result. Persistence is great, but you must persist with something that works.

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. - Albert Einstein

It isn't what is done to us that defines us, it is how we respond to it. - Takola

I'm sorry I misunderstood but I read it again and now I understand.

This letter that is sent.....is this the one that is put under "Confronting" or is it a different letter? Because I've done that..comfronted him about the emails and asked him to end contact with her and he said no, that she is his friend. This was back when I first saw the emails not right now.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
One day at a time.

Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible.



Me: 24
Him: 25
Married: May 31,2003
Separated: March 1,2004

http://groups.msn.com/OurWeddingPhotos/presentingmrandmrsmatthewharris.msnw

This is a different letter. The confronting and exposing letters are sent prior to going to Protection Phase. The Protection Phase letter is sent the day you go into that phase.

____________________________
met 6-2-99, engaged 6-2-00, married 6-2-01, H moves out 3-26-02, H moves home 5-27-02, Recovered

The significant problems we face can not be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them. - Albert Einstein

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get a different result. Persistence is great, but you must persist with something that works.

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. - Albert Einstein

It isn't what is done to us that defines us, it is how we respond to it. - Takola

Ok I want to do this...I want to save this marriage. I am will to do anything and everything I can to save our marriage.

One question: Is this the right thing to do if he doesn't consiter what he's doing an affair? Right now I see this as an emotional affair (not sure if it really has been anything more)

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
One day at a time.

Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible.



Me: 24
Him: 25
Married: May 31,2003
Separated: March 1,2004

http://groups.msn.com/OurWeddingPhotos/presentingmrandmrsmatthewharris.msnw

The plan to address an EA is the same as the plan to address a PA. Neither is less harmful than the other to your marriage.

Ok, I just want you to know that I'm not normally known for being nice, although I do want to help. I say this because my next comment is going to be a blow.

If he's moved you out of the state due to an affair, it is because he wanted to make room for him to continue the affair. He can now do whatever he wants in your home and that won't matter. That is not indicitive of an affair staying an EA rather than a PA.

Now can I get you a tissue?

____________________________
met 6-2-99, engaged 6-2-00, married 6-2-01, H moves out 3-26-02, H moves home 5-27-02, Recovered

The significant problems we face can not be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them. - Albert Einstein

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get a different result. Persistence is great, but you must persist with something that works.

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. - Albert Einstein

It isn't what is done to us that defines us, it is how we respond to it. - Takola

Its ok....that thought has been in the back of my mind this whole time.

My main goal right now is to better myself...make myself more attrative to him by being the type of person he would want to be (and stay) with. I have the strenth to handle this and handle anything that comes my way.
Thank you {{{HUGS}}}

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
One day at a time.

Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible.



Me: 24
Him: 25
Married: May 31,2003
Separated: March 1,2004

http://groups.msn.com/OurWeddingPhotos/presentingmrandmrsmatthewharris.msnw

Ok *whew*. That wasn't so bad. I've had people refuse to talk to me after saying things like that.

There are a few things that you do in intervention phase. They should be done as simultaneously as possible. I'm quoting Penny here, but really, there's no way to paraphrase that.

1.) Address the issues in the marriage. This part includes eliminating Harmful Habits and meeting the other's needs. I have seen meeting intimacy needs backfire. I suggest just meeting those that lead to attachment.

Do you have any idea of what your husband's needs are? Any idea of what your harmful habits are?

A good way to start on this is to think about anything he may have asked for, nagged for, or yelled about.

2.) Confronting him about the affair with what you know, how you know it, and how it makes you feel. You ask him to discontinue the relationship and commit to your marriage.

Now, whatever your evidence, keep in mind he will likely tell you that you are crazy, paranoid, that they are just friends, or some other explanation that basically means he's denying there is a problem and doesn't intend upon addressing it.

That's ok. WPs seem to follow the same script (I swear they download it of the internet or something, but I haven't located it as yet ). One lady confronted because her WH had spent the night at OW's house. He said that he and OW were just friends, that they slept in the same bed but didn't have sex, and that there was no problem.

3.) Confronting OW. Oh, yes, you should do it. There is a form to this letter too. It doesn't make judgments or call names, it simply tells her that you know, that the affair is hurting your marriage, that you love your H and are committed to your marriage, and asks her to discontinue the relationship.

If she says "sure" and really follows through, that'd be great. Let me know if she does so I can fall on the floor in a dead faint.

What is likely to happen is that you will get a disrespectful, jeering, mean response. That's ok. You've just introduced conflict/reality into the fantasy relationship, and that is mostly the point.

3.) Expose the affair to family and friends - INCLUDING HIS. Penny said something the other night that I really agree with. Think of the top 3 people he would not want to know about the affair. Tell them first.

There is a form to the exposure letter, too. It isn't blaming or judgmental, and it asks for the person's help in restoring your marriage.

Yeah, you might hear a lot of "How could you hurt your H this way by making these accusations?"

Again, part of the point is to introduce the fantasy relationship to conflict and reality. People may say they don't believe you, but they will scrutinize harder.

Got guts? This takes it.

____________________________
met 6-2-99, engaged 6-2-00, married 6-2-01, H moves out 3-26-02, H moves home 5-27-02, Recovered

The significant problems we face can not be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them. - Albert Einstein

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get a different result. Persistence is great, but you must persist with something that works.

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. - Albert Einstein

It isn't what is done to us that defines us, it is how we respond to it. - Takola

Oh, and you expose to her H, SO, and/or family, if you can find out who they are.

____________________________
met 6-2-99, engaged 6-2-00, married 6-2-01, H moves out 3-26-02, H moves home 5-27-02, Recovered

The significant problems we face can not be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them. - Albert Einstein

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get a different result. Persistence is great, but you must persist with something that works.

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. - Albert Einstein

It isn't what is done to us that defines us, it is how we respond to it. - Takola

OMG!!! I just found out that she (OW)is married but....its to a guy in Vietnam and she did it for the money! They have to stay married for 3 years. Is it just me or does anyone else see something wrong with this?

Good news!!! Last night my husband and I talked and he told me he hopes we can work this out. We both agreed to work on ourselves first. We talked for an hour! No fighting! It felt so good just to talk to him I started crying. my eyes start to tear up even now thinking about it

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
One day at a time.

Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible.



Me: 24
Him: 25
Married: May 31,2003
Separated: March 1,2004

http://groups.msn.com/OurWeddingPhotos/presentingmrandmrsmatthewharris.msnw

[This message was edited by Sandmans Angel on Fri March 19 2004 at 04:48 PM.]

I'm glad you were able to have a pleasant conversation with him. This is important to be able to do.

Remember that the road to marital recovery isn't a straight, perfect road. There are curves, bumps, and times when you seem to be going backwards.

About this OW's H...how did you find this information out?

____________________________
met 6-2-99, engaged 6-2-00, married 6-2-01, H moves out 3-26-02, H moves home 5-27-02, Recovered

The significant problems we face can not be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them. - Albert Einstein

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get a different result. Persistence is great, but you must persist with something that works.

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. - Albert Einstein

It isn't what is done to us that defines us, it is how we respond to it. - Takola

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sandmans Angel:


My main goal right now is to better myself...make myself more attrative to him by being the type of person he would want to be (and stay) with. I have the strenth to handle this and handle anything that comes my way.
Thank you {{{HUGS}}}

Hey Hunny Doll,
How are you today?
I think of you alot and you are most definately in my heart and prayers.

Darlin',
You are right to want to better yourself.
BUT,
The one that you should be bettering yourself for is YOU.
I HAD been trying to be someone that HE (guys from various relationships and my present marraige) would want to be w/ for a very long time.
That can not be done, not with out loosing sight of yourslef and becoming a doormat. People wipe their feet on doormats, Darlin'. and they are certainly NOT looking down and concidering the doormat when they do. They simply want to get the guck off the bottom of their feet.

I have also been in relationships when I totally loved me. My most fulfilling relationships involved me being me for me.
Oh sure, they did not work out for various reasons, but, oh my.

Angel, You are a very smart woman, you can do this and you do have the strength.
Should you feel, from time to time, that you do not have the strength, we are all here for you and with you.
Hang in there Hunny

xo
K

me-42 yr o
H (WS)-46 yr o
met-feb 2001
M 06-23-01
BabyLuv born 01-24-02

absolute affairs (EA and/or PA) to date-3
two of these are reoccurring for the past three years, one of which is w/ X-W

susupected other affiars- 2

I may have been one of the OW, the one that got pregnant.

*hypatia,

Thank you so much....sorry I haven't been on its kinda hard to get the computer from my dad. I so badly want to go home I haven't talked to my H for 2 days now and I feel like I'm going though withdrawls I miss him so much.

I understand I need to make me better for me but I also want to be a person he will want to stay with. I hope things work out so bad.
Thank you so much for thinking about me and preying for me it means a lot to have you guys here to talk to and support me.

You spell "Hunny" the same way I do I call my H Hunnybear and he calls me Poohbear {{{HUGS}}}

Tak,
I found out about the OW's marriage from someone who she talked to that I know. I didn't know this person was talking to her till the other day. And this person didn't know what was going on with my H and her. Believe me it was a very big shock for both of us.

<3,
Angel

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
One day at a time.

Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible.



Me: 24
Him: 25
Married: May 31,2003
Separated: March 1,2004

http://groups.msn.com/OurWeddingPhotos/presentingmrandmrsmatthewharris.msnw

[This message was edited by Sandmans Angel on Mon March 22 2004 at 01:01 PM.]

SA -
Well if you run out of options, you can come stay with me for awhile in Oceanside, CA, home of the USMC. I live in a real dumpy mobile home, but it is close to the beach and walking distance to many jobs. It is a great place to live, but most jobs don't pay enough to actually live here.

However you can learn to surf and be a beach bum.

[This message was edited by believer on Sun March 21 2004 at 09:32 AM.]

[This message was edited by believer on Sun March 21 2004 at 09:37 AM.]

SA Also if you decide to come - when you talk to WH, tell him you have an opportunity in California. Don't tell him it is to live with an old lady. You can mention a job by the beach, but forget to mention the dumpy trailer.

Right now he has power over you because you have no options, no job, no car. He thinks you are stuck, just waiting around for him. But of course you are not, because you can make all kinds of changes.

Stick with us, we will get you through this.

Thank you believer.....I'll keep your offer in mind. Right now things aren't that bad. I hate living with my parents again. I feel like a kid when I'm here. "don't do that." "did you wash your hands?" "Be home by 10" just like when I was 16. lol it sucks.

Last night I got an email from my H this is what it said.....
"i'll have some money in the mail for you in the next
few days, i'm selling your bike, and the gamecube, 50
for the bike (both tires are flat), and 150 for the
gamecube, so you'll atleast $200 by the end of the
week, they said we get some more money tomorrow, but i
don't know how much, if it's more than 200 i'll send
some extra, K? nothing new here. TTYL."

At first I was pissed! Selling my stuff?! Then I realized he wasn't doing it to get rid of my stuff but to get me some money. But still he should have asked first. We talked and I told him not to sell my bike. I like my bike and it wasn't cheap. Anywho thats whats been going on in my life.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
One day at a time.

Hope sees the invisible, feels the intangible and achieves the impossible.



Me: 24
Him: 25
Married: May 31,2003
Separated: March 1,2004

http://groups.msn.com/OurWeddingPhotos/presentingmrandmrsmatthewharris.msnw

{{{{{{{{{ }}}}}}}}
What are you willing to do for a paying job at this point?

Do your parents live lose enough to people who may need light or heavy cleaning done?
I used to do that, when I was a single parent, did it as the htird or forth job, while I was teaching. It sucked but we could bye groceries and new sneakers.

What about babysitting or checking in on a shut in?

Yard work?

Is there a bus line close to you?

What about car-pooling?

There must be a way for you to make some money so that you can be UNdependant from your husband.

hmmm.....

What about a live-in nanny? It's almost that time of year you know.

Angel must have control over Angel, not your husband. Even when the two of you get back together.

{{{{{{{ }}}}}}}

By the way, I have kinda been where youa re, in my first marriage. I was not allowed to get my drivers licence, taught myslef when I was 28. I was not allowed to get a job, got one after i got my licence, had to share the car and wait for him to watch the kids. I was not allowed to have friends, he scared them all away. I was not allowed to used the BC pill, had I had the choice, I would not have had his children, but they are two very beautiful kids and I am ever grateful for them.

I left him w/ everything I could fit in and around two car seats in a the smallest car you could ever imagine. I had virtually nothing, no place to go, no job, two babies, two car seats and a few meager things.

He was abusive and MC would not have worked. MC was rather archaic compared to today. There was nothing like SYMC or even the theories that are practiced here.

You can make something out of nothing, Angel.
I believe you can, I believe in you.


me-42 yr o
H (WS)-46 yr o
met-feb 2001
M 06-23-01
BabyLuv born 01-24-02

absolute affairs (EA and/or PA) to date-3
two of these are reoccurring for the past three years, one of which is w/ X-W

susupected other affiars- 2

I may have been one of the OW, the one that got pregnant.

I'd be PO'd at him selling your stuff. Not that you should go off on him...but still...he's not supporting you - YOU ARE because it's your stuff.

____________________________
met 6-2-99, engaged 6-2-00, married 6-2-01, H moves out 3-26-02, H moves home 5-27-02, Recovered

The significant problems we face can not be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them. - Albert Einstein

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get a different result. Persistence is great, but you must persist with something that works.

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. - Albert Einstein

It isn't what is done to us that defines us, it is how we respond to it. - Takola