quote:

Maybe thats what I need to do?

I think that you are putting the cart before the horse. You haven't gotten to the point of protecting yourself in the short-term, yet.

You can't hurry the process, I'm afraid. You can try, but you will do the .

Instead, talk about you and now. What will make you safe right now? Why do you avoid the "you" and "now"?

what will make me safe now:

1. SO does not move back
2. I do my own recovery work
3. If we stay in contact he needs to get his own apt & take over his finances completely
4. If we stay in contact I need to make sure I am no where near him (or him me/kids) if he is high

Those are the ones I can think of now

EJLH

quote:

1. SO does not move back
2. I do my own recovery work
3. If we stay in contact he needs to get his own apt & take over his finances completely
4. If we stay in contact I need to make sure I am no where near him (or him me/kids) if he is high

I think if you could state them all in terms of what you will/won't do, what you can control, it would be better. The first two you have control of. Is there a way to state #1 in terms of what you'll do, not what he won't do?

As for, number 3: does it really matter where he lives? Isn't it really more about whether you're willing to continue to help him financially or not? Maybe you could reword it to say what you are willing to do/not do.

Number 4 seems to be an on-going issue over which you have minimal control. He hasn't complied in the past. If, as he says, he hasn't been high around you since he moved out and is able to continue, are you willing to let go of what he does when he's not with you? What will you do when he doesn't call because he's high, but you don't know why he's not calling? What will you do if you're with him or talking to him and you believe he's high? How can you reword this to say what you will do? I don't mean ultimatums if he doesn't call or you think he's high, because, judging by the past, this is what will occur. What will you do for yourself at these times? Not what are you going to tell him you'll do, what are you going to do to protect yourself and your girls?

quote:

If we stay in contact he needs to get his own apt & take over his finances completely

Ok, so what are the benefits of staying in contact? What are the risks? What are the benefits of no contact? What are the risks?

I agree about stating your list in the FIRST PERSON.

1. SO does not move back

1. I do not live with SO until he has proactively completed ___________, ____________, and _______________, AND it can be verified by _________________ and ____________.

2. I do my own recovery work

2. I work on loving and healing myself.

3. If we stay in contact he needs to get his own apt & take over his finances completely

3. I will not contribute financially while he is dependent upon and feeding his addiction.

4. If we stay in contact I need to make sure I am no where near him (or him me/kids) if he is high

4. I will notify the proper authorities if he is around the kids when he is under the influence of drugs.

Above are my examples. Now, you try it. Empower YOURSELF.

quote:

does it really matter where he lives?

Yeah, it matters. If he moves someplace where he has a couple of addicts as his roommates and/or neighbors - it matters.

From earlier:

quote:

Please look at the revised list. I have to give him something...I can't just not give him anything. I won't have the strength.

quote:

the ultimatum he was giving me about making up my mind by monday

Do you still feel like you have to make a decision by Monday?

Have you been pressured to make decisions like this before?

If so, what were the circumstances then? What happened afterward?

quote:

I can't just not give him anything. I won't have the strength.

Read this second sentence. This is where you should focus. Why?

Start with -

Question 1: "Why won't I have the strength?"

Then, start with this one:

quote:

the ultimatum he was giving me about making up my mind by monday

Why are you absorbing this into your own deadline?

Tak.. your last post.. just made me snort.. because it's soooooo TAK...

The fact is he has his contacts all over the area..given what he does for a living (drives a lincoln town car). It doesn't matter where he lives per se, if he wants 'em, he knows where to get 'em.

I do not live with SO until he has proactively completed ___________, ____________, and _______________, AND it can be verified by _________________ and ____________.
AA, NA.. I don't know if I can verify by anyone that he's gone, going. He does not have insurance or the funds for an in patient rehab, nor will he go...at least while he's in contact with me..thats been made perfectly clear.

2. I do my own recovery work

2. I work on loving and healing myself.

3. If we stay in contact he needs to get his own apt & take over his finances completely

3. I will not contribute financially while he is dependent upon and feeding his addiction.

I can do these...that is one of the things I've been working with him to get this handled.

4. If we stay in contact I need to make sure I am no where near him (or him me/kids) if he is high

4. I will notify the proper authorities if he is around the kids when he is under the influence of drugs.

I can do this too.

Lucky.. I was sure about 2 wks ago that SO was high (he says no)...I had called in the morning and again in the evening and left a message. He didn't call back till evening the next day. I was actually detached from it. I didn't freak, or wonder or get all worked up. I think if he's not in my face I won't get worked up.

Anyway, it's 5:00.. tonight is girls night out with the girls and we're going to the movies. I will be back later on tonight... thanks so much for all the advice. I will think on the rest of everyone's posting as well.

thank you thank you!! I am working at getting better...you guys are helping. It is hard, and it does hurt, and it is scary and I donnnn like it but I won't give up on me...and I won't give in either.

EJLH

quote:

I don't know if I can verify by anyone that he's gone, going.

Ok, now do the shift for me. Shift from a paradigm where YOU have to verify it independently to where HE has the responsibility to provide you evidence. What would that evidence be?

Where he lives still matters. It is the difference between trying to stay sober and smelling what you crave in the hallway as you are walking to your place...or through the heating ducts...the difference between having to go find what you want and having it offered to you by your neighbors.

Trust me, it does matter. It won't matter while he's not honestly trying to stay sober, but it will matter when he is.

El - tough day, huh... Well, everyone else has said it pretty well, I think. It's nothing you haven't heard a thousand times. Nothing you haven't told yourself a million. If anything, and I mean anything, changes for the better, this has got to be about you. When my H said he had fallen in love with the OW, it became evident early on that she was his addiction. Remember how he sounded like he was flying high? It killed me to swallow the bitter pill that I couldn't control him. I couldn't jump up and down screaming and yelling so that he'd realize what a horrible mistake he was making. What I could do was tell him how I loved him, how I hated this, how my heart was broken, how I wished he'd give it time to see if he changed his mind. In the end, all I could do was take care of me. Withdrawal from anything is much harder and more painful in the short term than it is in the long-term. Staying on whatever it is that's unhealthy for you is comforting in the short-term (even if it's in an unhealthy way), but seriously damanging in the long. This is a tough, tough thing to say but I think you will see the truth in it. You can decide to take care of yourself now, or you can decide to take care of yourself later. It's up to you to decide. Love you - me.

Yes darlin, tough day, tough night too.

Did do something fun with the girls last night. If you want to have a great laugh and enjoy a really well done movie go see "Prime"...the shot of the bubbe (old jewish grandmother) banging herself in the head with a frying pan was worth the price of the movie...

Anyway, I have gone over and over in my head the scenarios, the conversation, the reasons, the thoughts, what I need, what I want all night. Amazing I got any sleep at all.

Part of me wants to let him come back..just because. Part of me knows that is doing myself a big injustice and probably him too. Although I'm sure he wouldn't see it that way. I had a conversation with my ex last night (he's a social worker..scary but true.. but he did say something valuable...he said if you go back together without him doing any work on changing himself you can't expect any change from him. And the same goes for you too.) Which I sorta already knew but hate looking at.

What I do know is the ultimatums I've given him about quitting drugs is no better than the one he's given me about making up my mind about letting him come home. And I think I will tell him that.

I think I will tell him that for me it is better if he doesn't live with me...for now. He should get his own apt. That way if he chooses to continue to use it won't be in my face. If he chooses to quit and go into a recovery program it'll help to build the faith & trust I need to let him move back in. It'll give me the time I need to heal and grow. It won't endanger my children. Which is probably the most important issue to me right now. (more so than my recovery is keeping them safe). I would probably suggest a minimum of a year with this arrangement. As for a time amount that he needs to be in recovery before moving in...I think I'll let that one lie until such time as he actually goes into recovery.

Discussing his economic independence from me and being responsible to his work are just side issues if they come up we'll talk. If not then fine. The same about whether he and I want to still "date". I would like to, but if he feels hurt or angry over the decision, it might outweigh whatever feelings of generosity towards my needs. And thats fine too.

How does that sound oh wise friends of mine..

EJLH

quote:

How does that sound oh wise friends of mine..

Sounds to me like you are still running from focusing on yourself.

OK darlin' - another question for you to ask yourself. Why are you holding back on stating all your needs (keeping in mind that they need to be in the first person as others have mentioned) (i.e., finances, completely drug free, respecting your needs, communicating, etc., etc., etc.). If you're going to do this, don't cut yourself short. The fact is, you deserve all of the above, and more. After all, it's no more than you've been asked to give. Hugs, me.

You sound better today!

quote:

I think I will tell him that for me it is better if he doesn't live with me...for now. He should get his own apt. That way if he chooses to continue to use it won't be in my face. If he chooses to quit and go into a recovery program it'll help to build the faith & trust I need to let him move back in. It'll give me the time I need to heal and grow. It won't endanger my children. Which is probably the most important issue to me right now. (more so than my recovery is keeping them safe). I would probably suggest a minimum of a year with this arrangement. As for a time amount that he needs to be in recovery before moving in...I think I'll let that one lie until such time as he actually goes into recovery.

The parts that I bolded are what I think is necessary to tell SO. I would definitely advise against talking about any kind of time limits--for either of you.

quote:

It won't endanger my children. Which is probably the most important issue to me right now.

Then it should probably be the first point you make when talking about him living with you or not.

Stick to what you need, and what you will do. Leave what he needs and what he will do up to him--don't direct him.

You're doing well, EJLH

I should probably have written it this way...

1. SO, for me it is better if you don't live with me...for now, because

2. It won't endanger my children. Which is probably the most important issue to me right now.

3. It'll give me the time I need to heal and grow.

Possibly adding....

4. Part of my healing and growing includes being financially independent of you and giving up responsibility to your work.

5. I would like to continue to date while I am doing this.

LB.. thank you for the help in clarifying things...BWA you too. I'm not very good at focusing..especially on me.

So let's see..

1. SO, for me it is better if you don't live with me...for now, because

2. It won't endanger my children. Which is probably the most important issue to me right now.

3. It'll give me the time I need to heal and grow.

4. Part of my healing and growing includes being financially independent of you and giving up responsibility to your work.

5. I would like to continue to date while I am doing this.

Is there anything else that would make it as much about my needs? and not be about him?

BWA, you know SO pretty much as well as I do...the one thing I've found is if I tell him too much at one time he shuts down and starts the victim yeah, I'm a jerk talk. I'd rather keep it to the most important things at the moment. Talking about what I need from him in regards to respecting my needs (other than the ones stated) and communicating better are only worth talking about if we do decide to still date. Now, on the other hand, if the discussion actually goes well and he seems fine with all we've discussed I believe there will be further time to talk about those issues. I already know the uphill battle when it comes to his communication issues...and if the other things can be addressed in a manner that works for me, I can tackle that at a later time. I keep remembering what LB told me... KISS..keep it simple sweetie... I'm just trying to do that and protect myself along the way.

EJLH

quote:

Is there anything else that would make it as much about my needs? and not be about him?

Good call!!!

How does it look if #1 is changed to....

1. SO, I cannot allow you to live with me....for now, because


Can you tweak the rest of it so that it is apparent that it is about you?

okay... here goes

SO, I cannot allow you to live with me....for now, because

I will not endanger my children. Which is probably the most important issue to me right now.

It will give me the time I need to heal and grow.

For my wellbeing I need to be financially independent of you and give up responsibility to your work.

I would like to continue to date while I am doing this.

How's that??

EJLH

I think it's great!!!! But remember who you asked....and get a second opinion!

haha.. now that made me laugh..

like I don't value YOUR opinion alot!!
Okay.. please anyone else's opinion is also valued!!

EJLH