I have been married for 28 years, much longer than most of you I have read about. It can happen at any point in a marriage. My husband took a job traveling with his company for two years and hated it. He hated being gone, he had the sole responsibility of his aging mother, he was getting grey hair, all of the Mid-life bull. 14 months ago I started having "female" problems and blamed it on menopause. Hey, thats no piece of cake to go through. Anyway, I work at a lab and finally ran some tests on myself one day and discovered I had a STD. It felt like someone stabbed me in the heart. I trusted him 100%. When I asked him how I got it he denied everything and I was stupid enough to believe him. Finally I "got smart" and confronted him again and got the whole story about a one night stand with a hotel employee. For the first few days our coversations were all cenetered around him, his depression, bad childhood, getting old, etc. When I got past the shock I started thinking, "What about me", I didn't ask for this, or deserve it. I felt raped and dirty because of the STD. We started looking for counseling but the first two only wanted to focus of him and did nothing to help me. Long story short is now he is the husband I always wanted but I can not get the videos out of my head of "them" and can not make love to my husband without seeing them. I was denied the option of confronting her because we don't even know her real name and she no longer works at that hotel. I feel this is the biggest thing holding back my healing. There are so many things I would like to say to her. I have thought about hiring a PD to find her but everyone tells me she is not important, forget her. Only someone who has been through this knows, that is why I'm asking all of you. Please help me keep moving forward in my marriage.

Lanny..

Welcome to SYMC.. though the reasons that brought you here aren't so great

There's a few things I want to say first...

The fact that your H finally gave up the info (though it was thru necessity rather than freedom) is actually a good step towards healing the marriage. Most people involved in a ONS or an A won't freely give up the info without some pushing.. and that you were willing to focus on his issues first speaks greatly about your dedication to him and your marriage.

Next thing.. I have been basically on all ends of affairs and there is no good one.. I can tell ya that. I have been confronted by OM's wife and for me it was one of the most horrible things I've had to endure. But.. this was a pretty long term A, not a ONS.. and she actually said that she'd have rather not known afterwards, though her imagination was running wild and the truth of it was what happened was no where near as graphic as what she'd imagined. And even after talking to her I would believe that those videos that play in your head, would still haunt you. Now you just would have a voice to go along with them.

Have you asked your H the same questions you'd like to ask the OW? You might actually get better answers from him than her because she is not invested in a relationship with him nor does she really care about his relationship with you.

BTW, I was married for 22 yrs and the man I am with (who is a member of this site as well) was married 26 yrs. His exW had an affair and is now living with OM, he was also this member's best friend.. double whammy there.. He is pretty sure that she had more than one affair during their marriage as well...

The truth is, the forgiveness, the healing comes from inside of you. The answers you are seeking should come from your H. And why she did it? Well ONS, by their very nature, are all about entitlement, all about instant gratification and all about selfishness. Your H, fell into that mental/emotional state for whatever reason and was unable to get to that space of self worth and integrity to get himself out. I would guess she was in the same head space. Especially if either of them was compromised by drinking or mental exhaustion.

If your H is doing everything he can to make you feel safe, loved and secure, then this part of the healing is about you working on you. Its about you dealing with the wounds to your self esteem and dealing with your self worth. Have you considered counseling? Penny (our fearless leader is great btw, and does phone sessions).

Let me know how things are going at this point..

Loui

This message has been edited. Last edited by: LouiEJ*SYMC,

I don't know if it's questions I have for her or just to tell her my story and about my life because of "their" actions and her role in it. She said all the right things to feed the male ego and I know she cares squat about him as a person. She got what she wanted, I just want her to know what she has put an innocent wife through and look her in the eye. My H has answered any questions I have asked but I still wonder if I can believe him. After all, he lied about it in the first place. He says it is the only time with her or anyone else, however she called our house on Christmas Eve to confirm his hotel reservation the following week. That sounds pretty fishy to me. I want to ask her if it was the only time so I know if he is still lying about it or telling the truth. If it's the truth, thank God, if it's not, he is outa here. I am to good of a person to live in a marriage without trust. It was very hard for me in the beginning to think he could have sex with a stranger without feelings as I could NEVER do this. But now I realize he is a man with an organ and they all are capable of doing this. What a big disappointment men are in this area. This is why sex is now dirty and selfish to me, because that's what it was with her. Can I stay in a sexless marriage, is that fair to him or me?

Hi Lanny - and welcome.

Along with all the good stuff LouiE shared I wanted to give you some thoughts on the flashbacks. They are symptomatic of post traumatic stress disorder 9ptsd). You may or may not have a full blown case of ptsd but many, if not most, BP's experience multiple symptoms.

Some things you can try:

If you are not on meds you might want to consider it. Even short term anti-depressants can help stabilize your mood so you can get calm, grounded, and centered again.

Consider looking for a therapist who specializes in trauma and stress. I know from experience and from the stories I hear from friends and clients that it can be really difficult to find one who meets your needs ... if you're interested in this I can give you some more pointers.

About the movies in your head. A good friend shared this tactic with me and it seems to work well for lots of people.

1. Freeze the images. See the pictures as still rather than moving.

2. Turn the images (now frozen) to black and white.

3. Shrink the images to thumbnail size.

As you do these things they become less powerful and less able to intrude into the present.

And finally, if you are not in some sort of couple's work it might be very helpful. I have some articles on finding a good professional and I would be very happy to work with you.

Warmly,

P

We finally found a good counselor that help a lot. I am on Medication and it was a huge help with my moods and hysteria but would like to get off it soon. I don't like the side effects. One early therapist suggested the rubber band on my writst to snap whenever the video's started, well all that did was remind me why I had a rubber band on my wrist, I got the opposite effect so stopped. I really appreciate the suggestions to stop the images and will give it a try. I keep thinking I should be better after this amount of time. I know I am better but tired of all the thinking, you can't even watch TV without a reminder of what infidelity causes and brings the emotions to the surface.

Heh - sorry about the rubber band reminder.

In addition to M therapy you might want to think about someone who understands trauma and stress. There are really good techniques that can help you deal with the anxiety and the flashbacks. If you decide to do this you'll probably have to do some searching (therapist, your city, PTSD, depression is a good start) and calling. Be sure to ask if they've done any work with trauma and infidelity or if they are willing to explore that with you.

P

Well, I'm still here and trying to move forward in the healing process. I mentioned in another thread today about not geing able to get the OW out of my head and am still obsessed about finding her. I have been able to move on in so many other aspects except that one. How does a person go about hiring a PI to find her or do I just go on driving myself crazy and let it go? Our marriage is in a better place than it has ever been but I feel like we are slipping back in to that old routine. Mostly me, not him. He still wants so much attention and affection from me that I am growing weary of giving sometimes. After 28 years of marriage I am at a different place than he is. I want a companion and comfort of just being in the same room together and not feel like we have to have constant communication or touching or hugging. These things are more important to him now to reassure him that I still love him and want him. Well, I feel that if I didn't I would have left him back when all this happened and that should be enough for him. Now I'm afraid if I don't play the "doting wife" he needs, he will once again find that "feeling" with the next person that comes along and gives it like before. He says he will NEVER again be that helpless but I find it hard to believe because I don't know how much longer I can give him the quota of hugs and kisses he needs. Sometimes it feel good, other times it's like a job that I have to do. He doesn't force them but when after so much time goes by, he gets that puppy dog look and so that's my que he needs something. I'm talking several times a day on some days. I guess in a way I want our old relationship back but at what cost? I am very good at entertaining myself but he seems to need me to fill that for him. Our sex life is still pretty slow because I only do it for him, not for me most of the time. You know, the images still come to mind of "them". I guess at this point in my life I want a companion, not a lover, but men don't seem to be able to be happy with that even though he says he is. I'm just having a bad day, woke up with it on my mind because I know it has been a while since we had sex and I'm going to have to give in soon. It makes me feel guilty, not a good thing to feel. I'm confused. I really like being with him, he is retired and I only work 2 days a week so we do spend a lot of time together which is good. I can't imagine my life with anyone else but not sure I want anyone to be responsible for their happiness. What's your thoughts, am I normal????????

Yes totally normal! But I have no advice to give on that side of it (H's needing attention) because it's not something I have any experience of.
However I was reading on another thread what you said about finding OM and wanting her to know. I think the usual line here is not to do so. But it struck a chord with me because that's how I felt when H had his 'thing'. He didn't have an affair, and we weren't married then - no physical contact - more a flirtation - a family endorsed marriage potential flirtation (so I did hit the roof!) - so I don't know how well my experience generalises.
I wrote to the OW. I was pretty unsatisfied with the response, I think it takes an extremely self aware and self controlled person to apologise rather than defend their actions or counter attack - and she wasn't one of those. So I'm not sure it left me feeling any better. It made me extremely angry. But it certainly did, at that time, feel like something I had to do. And I'm not sure if I'd have moved on without it. I'm not sure I totally moved on then though.
A few years later I actually had the opportunity to 'discuss' with her. Long story. But she ended up marrying one of my H's best friends and his family were involved in the wedding and stuff and H was supposed to be too - as you can imagine I was pretty sore - so they managed to arrange a 'meeting' for us to 'have it out'. Well she still denied all responsibility of course and I was unimpressed, unsatisfied. But that said, somehow I did eventually move on from it. At first seeing her was very offensive to me - it makes any images realer. But in the end it also allowed me to see her as human, lonely, a little bit desperate and sad (ok maybe I want to believe that bit because it helps!), and that actually helped me to deal with it. 2 years ago we even stayed with the both of them (still not happy about that! but it was manageable - 5 years before that it would have led to me ripping either hers or H's eyeballs out...)
So anyway, I still have no idea whether you should find her, whether it would help you or make things worse, whether it helped me (I don't think it made things worse). I just thought I'd share my experience in case it's of any use.

Lanny...

This issues you mention are about your H but more importantly they are very much about what you are feeling. Did you ever feel this way before the A?

I wonder if by giving "in" as you call it you are enabling your H to continue in a behavior that is unhealthy to both of you. My exH and I were married 20 some odd years when we started doing things to change our behaviors.

Are you in MC together? or IC?

I know this is a rediculous suggestion and if you are in MC I'd like you to run it by your T... but maybe you guys.. for now... can actually "schedule" how many times per day you hug each other.. or make love... Like making it a "date" in your head rather than a chore.

Lets say you sit down and tell him that sometimes you feel put upon by him and his need for reassurance from you. That you want to feel like he's a companion. And maybe he tells you that he's confident that he'll never stray again, but he does need the physical and emotional support more than you do.

So maybe getting creative with how and when you will hug each other... how and when you will make love.. how and when you'll go out on a "date".. Maybe each week you can switch on and off.. One week you come up with something to do on date night.. or hug hour and visa versa.

Maybe set up a "talk time".. my exH and I did this.. 10 mins apiece per day, each one talking while the other sits quietly.. no interrupting for any reason, no matter what is said. (if they do.. the 10 minutes starts all over).. and then visa versa. This helps build good listening skills.

You know put a positive spin on this rather than a negative. If you both plan this together it might be more of a joint effort rather than individually moving more and more into opposing corners of pain.

Loui

OK, I just read my last post and nothing has changed since then. I feel like I am at a stand still in our marriage. I told him today that I feel like I can not give him all the attention he needs without feelings of resentment and guilt so if he needs these things in order to be happy he has my permission to leave the marriage and I was OK with that. How awful is that? For the first year after D-Day, I still has a pretty normal sex life with him but in the last 4 months I have absolutely no desire. Not sure if that is normal or my age, menopause you know? Whenever I think about having sex is kinda disgusts me and seems dirty. Maybe this is a delayed reaction? All I know is that the only think I want is a best friend and companion and if he needs more than that, he needs to leave and find it somewhere else. He says he is happy with this but the "puppy" eyes are still there and makes me feel so guilty to be so cold.

Any thoughts? Oh, and I still want to find the OW and I still see them together most of the time when we do have sex. Not as grafic though.

Hmmmmmm. Hmmmmmm. It may be that the affair is a background driver, absolutely. But I really wonder what's in your day-to-day life that's affecting things, too. Does all sex seem disgusting, or only sex with him?

Or is it about being able to finally have some control over things? When you say, "...if he needs more than that, he needs to leave and find it somewhere else..." that almost sounds like you're trying to drive him out of the marriage rather than having to face whatever's causing you this painful disconnection from the part of you that's sexual.

If it's the latter, well, driving him away isn't going to make the things inside you go away. Isn't that just the most annoying thing ever?

It's the act of sex, not just him. When I think about doing it I have to convince myself to carry through with it. Once we get to a certain point, I'm OK and enjoy it. So, ya, it is all in my mind. I think I am wondering if this is as good as I'm gonna get? It's been almost 2 years and I'm getting tired of working so hard at this and need a break. I'm happy with the way things are now other than intimacy. The control thing may be true but I have never been controling, just independent. I do NOT like being responsible for his happiness. When I asked him yesterday about what makes him happy, every answer revolved around me. That's a lot of pressure. I know he is very insecure and still needs a lot of reassurance from me which I do give him. I tell him the things I love about him and how he makes me feel loved. Part of it may be this new husband I have in him that I wish I would have had for 28 years. Now that I have it, I am uncomfortable with all the attention because I got used to living without it. I almost feel like he worships me and that is hard to live up to with all the expectations of being worshiped. I really do think part of it is my age also. As women get older, we do become more independent because we don't have the kids around to take care of and can start doing things we want instead of have to.

I think these last few days have just been bad ones for me. I woke up two days ago crying and everything just came back to me. Not just the A but other things that happened to me at the same time that did. Like quitting my job of 20 years, and my cat died, blah, blah, blah. I was just letting myself have a little pitty party for a while but pulling myself out of it now. You can only push things out of your mind for so long and then you just have to let them come, deal with them again, and then move on. Does that make sense?
I'm just wondering if the sex thing will ever come back? He doesn't push it but doesn't do anything to encourage it either. Has put the ball in my court which is good and bad. He is out of town hunting with his friends all this week and boy am I going to take advantage of my "alone" time. I know I will be glad to see him on Friday so all is well.

quote:

You can only push things out of your mind for so long and then you just have to let them come, deal with them again, and then move on. Does that make sense?

Absolutely! I actually find that things are worse when I push them away and that it's "easier" (though never actually easy) if I surrender to the pain and face it right away. Errr, assuming that I'm not sitting in a meeting or something, that is!!

It seems to me that some of what you're talking about is that you're shouldering too much responsibility. If you, exactly as you are as a human being, facilitate his happiness, that's wonderful! Steven Stosny and Pat Love wrote a book recently (can't recall the title) and one of the most interesting elements, for me, was the fact that women take their satisfaction from many facets of their interactions with many many people. Men, on the other hand, seem to define themselves much more by how the really important women in their lives react to them. In other words, "If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy" is really true.

So if he works hard to help you be happy, well, I can see how that would be a tremendous lot of extra work for you to meet that new, higher standard of care and commitment and all that stuff. Which is not to say it's -bad-, just that it's quite a bit of work!

Oh, and if you have to work to get your mind on sex in a way that it's enjoyable, well.... I almost want to welcome you to how many women have lived for most of their lives. Rather than do that, though, I think I would suggest that you both focus on the environment surrounding sex. Is there romance, or has foreplay become "ok, dishes are done, let's get going!" Heck, dishes -can- be exciting. But only if there's a solid emotional connection. Men get that more from being in the same space together. Women get it more from talking and touching and feeling like their men have built a "nest" for 'em.

So... how about candles at dinner tonight? And the nicer dishes? And a walk around the neighborhood afterward?

Thank you, I am feeling more normal now after reading your insight. I never thought about it but it's true that women can have relationships with several people who all bring some sort of happiness to them. Men just don't seem to be able to do this as well. I have always encouraged him to do more things with his friends. When we had this conversation two days ago about happiness, I then asked him to name some things that didn't involve me. He was able to think of some so I told him he needed to do "them" more often and not rely on me so much and how it makes me feel when he does. So...the communication is there and good.
Your are also right about setting the mood. For our entire marriage, I was always the one who came up with the "exciting" ideas in our sex life. He loved it but never returned the favor. About 3 years ago I quit doing it saying it was his turn to come up with some ideas and he never did. I told him I was bored with the same moves, same place, same time sex life. A year later he had the ONS for his excitement instead of putting the effort into having it with me. Maybe this is still a factor in my head? I guess I'll have to go back to doing all the hard work if I want the thrill back. His idea of romance is acts of kindness, which isn't bad but doesn't get my motor reving if ya know what I mean. Since he will be gone all week, maybe I should come up with a rousing homecoming? I'm smiling already.
It's good to hear I'm "normal" at this stage.

Hmmmmm. You know, here's the thing. If you're bored with your sex life, some of being a grownup is actually talking about that. Not just coming up with and implementing whatever you think is sexy, but having that -very- difficult conversation. You know the one. Here, a (PG, mostly) example.

"Hon, I love you more than peanut butter sandwiches, and back 20 years ago when you weighed 30 pounds less and those flannel boxers were new, I thought they were really, really sexy. But see, the thing is, the moth holes really don't make them more sexy for me. So.... what do you think about going shopping together for a new pair?"

You could also shop together at the local "toy" store. If you can find one that's staffed mostly by women and that has at least half women as clientele, you'll find that they're quite fun to go into. And, of course, toys are wonderful playthings! (E-mail me offline if you want some help finding one in your area.)

And there are even more difficult conversations to have along those same lines. "Hon, you know, I've read about this thing called [insert name of interesting thing to do here]. And. I want to try it."

There are two really important things in these discussions, I think. First, have fun. Real fun. With laughter.

And second, be true to who you really are. If you don't want to do something, then don't do it. If you DO want to do something, then.... say so! And accept that if you're stretching the limits of your husband's comfort zone, sometimes he's going to go... .

Well....I'm still here and still alive but after reading my last few posts, not much has changed. It is coming up on the 2 year anniv. of d-day and I know it will be tough but got through it last year so I will get through it again.

I think what I need to hear is from other BS that is a few years out and see if I am still normal is my recovery at this stage or if it will ever get better? I feel stuck! I don't talk about how I am feeling to anyone because I figure they don't wan't to hear about my pain or anger anymore. Most people feel I am or should be "over" it by now and don't know why I'm not. I read a couple people on hear say they still just can't seem to wrap their head around it and that is still me. I honestly don't think a day has gone by that it has not come in to my thoughts at some point and on different levels. Some days it is fleeting and goes away, other days it lingers. I have really become quite a good actress so no one knows what I am feeling inside. I have considered going back to our MC to see if he can give me some insight at this stage.

The one thing that is still constant is my desire to find the OW and just tell her my story of how her actions effect marriages and families forever. I have had this conversation in my head thousands of times but keep wondering if this is what is holding up my healing? Yes, I know it takes two and what his role was but I still cannot get past finding her. Are there any super sleuths out there that can help me find her? All I know is she lives in the Fairburn, GA area and worked at the Hampton Inn in Jan. of 2007 and her first name is Kathy. I know she got fired from there when I sent the Manager a letter telling what she had done with a guest. I seem to be obsessed with finding her. Is this normal? Most people tell me to let it go but I just can't do it. I think only someone in my shoes understands this obsession. Am I right or wrong? I have thought about what I expect from her. Not much really, just want her to listen to my story and answer a few question to know if it was only once or if he is lying about that. Why did she call our house on Christmas eve the week before he stayed there and did the deed. I know he has stayed there before on his job travels. I guess I still want proof because I really don't believe it was the only time. My son asked me "What if it was more than the one time, what would that change now". Well, it would mean divorce for me to know that he lied, even though he is completely changed and a great husband now. Boy, do I have issues or what? Why can't I let go yet? It's over but I can't wrap my head around the betrayl and lies even if it was 2 years ago.

I guess I'm just venting since I have no one else to talk to who might understand where I'm at mentally. Thanks for listening (or reading). I just have to much going on in my head right now and want to just sit down and have a good cry but I can't because my H is with me almost 24/7 and won't even let me be in a room by myself, he is stitting in here now watching me type but has no idea what I'm writing. It's like having a stalker sometimes. He know I get on this site and knows what it is but thinks I am just trying to help other people get through their pain and doesn't know I'm still in pain also.

Oh, what to do, what to do????