I cant believe I feel like I have been struck by lightening again....

Lately when I ask questions or want to discuss the affair he clams up and gives me attitude. We have talked about that and he dances around it. Essentially when I want to ask questions I get the eyeroll and the oh we are back on that attitude. So this week I brought it up in counseling and he said that he doesnt like to discuss it because it was a horrible time in his life and he has locked it away in the back of his brain and doesnt want to discuss it. Must be nice to be able to do that.

So tonight the conversation started innocently enough, we were talking about pictures and he mentioned a few of me that he has at work. I asked him if he has always had those there and he said yes they have been there our whole marriage. I then proceeded to say to him I wasnt asking to badger but I simply couldnt understand how a person was able to look at their family and spouse and then pick up the phone and call AP?? He said he didnt think of it, he was wrapped up in himself, and what he wanted. I asked him how is it possible to just switch it off like that and if he could do it then how does a person know it wont happen again?? He said that it was all a sham before (I thought he was talking about our mariage) and that he knows what he has now is real. I asked him what was a sham and he said everything the whole entire thing (still think he is talking about our marriage). I asked him if he felt our marriage up until dday was a sham where does that put us now?? He said he wasnt talking about us, he meant his A was sham/fantasy not real and he realizes that now. So I ask him if he realizes now that it was a sham what did he think it was while it was going on?? He says fun/interesting...to which I ask at what point does a person get to where they can think that an A while married with family is fun??? He said maybe he was choosing the wrong words...ummm exciting/different was his new words...I am still not understanding but dont want to badger so I let it go...

Then he says he realizes that it was a sham and not real and that she was a user/s**t (and a couple more expletives) I asked him since he feels that way now how did he feel about her during and he said he liked her then, I then asked him if he ever felt that he loved her during the A and he said no he never felt that he loved her. Here is where it starts to trail off...me getting kids to bed and him getting ready for work, but essentially I see the attitude coming out at this point.

So fast forward a little while later we are outside and he is getting ready to leave for work and I said I have one more question I need to ask and he rolled his eyes and started with the attitude immediately and I said straight out to him that I could do without the attitude I have questions and I feel I deserve answers. He said yeah but it makes me uncomfortable and I am supposed to say that.

Ok so I take point noted and I say to him well because it makes you uncomfortable doesnt mean I dont deserve answers and he still is giving way big attitude but agrees to answer and tells me "You make me have attitude, answering those questions makes me uncomfortable....."

Ummm when exactly did this become about him again??? What do I do with this now??? Did I make a mistake thinking a selfish person could ever not be???? Or Will this always and forever be a battle about everything being about him???

Have I made a huge mistake???

Hi Lost
I'm not writing because I have anything to say - I'll wait for the experts to pop in for that! But I thought I'd write and just say hi in case the boards are quiet on the weekend.
I'm so sorry it's going badly. I think his reaction is just trying to escape from deep guilt - talking a lot about something you know you've done wrong is REALLY uncomfortable and the natural (I'm not saying right) response to discomfort is to avoid it. I don't know if it helps to keep that in mind - I don't think he's avoiding it because he doesn't think it's important, I think he just feels terrible and is trying to avoid poking at those feelings. But it's sad because you are the one who ends up paying for that avoidance, which isn't fair, because you are the one who has already been hurt.
Keep in mind he may also feel it's going in circles. He's said what he had with her wasn't real, he's called her names and said everything he can think of to make you feel better. He may feel like although you say you want answers, the answers are never good enough either, and he doesn't know what will be - so once again he tries to run away from it. Once again not like that's a great response as it just hurts you more.

Can I ask you - how many of your questions actually have an answer? How many are really seeking understanding? And how many are actually accusations where nothing he can say will 'answer' them? I ask because of stuff like this one...

quote:

to which I ask at what point does a person get to where they can think that an A while married with family is fun???

Is there anything he could reply to that that would make you feel better? Is it really a question at all?
I know you are trying to make logical sense of a lot of stuff that doesn't make logical sense, because that way it's like we can find a way to guarantee it won't happen again. And you are using logic to pose questions to him of a situation that you know isn't logical. Like asking a smoker "what point does a person get to where inhaling carcinogenic substances that are known to cause cancer is fun?" It's a totally logical question.... but addictions aren't logical so there is no answer to that that would shed light on it. Which probably makes him feel cornered, and like any scared animal cornered he runs or fights.

Anyway that's just my two cents so you've got something to read till the pro's get here! Hope it doesn't sound like I'm defending him - in the perfect world after doing something like that he would be endlessly patient and sensitive to your pain, and listen to questions and accusations that can't be answered until you had no more. But we're all weak humans - some more so than others - and the ones of us who've fallen into this pit unarguably so. I think one thing that might help is figuring out, out of the things you want to ask him, which ones you actually want to know that HAVE an answer (like "did you do this, did you feel this"), and which ones are actually an accusation - which is really another language for a cry for help - a scream to him to somehow magically make it all better - even though you don't know how he could do that - and neither does he. Given the situation accusations are understandable - but don't expect him to be able to give you an answer to those that will make things ok.

Ack ack I don't know if this has come out right - anyway look after yourself and be kind to yourself.

Thank you so much for your response. I really appreciate knowing there are people out there who understand what I am feeling.

I never make accusations anymore and I do try to keep my questions to ones that can be answered like did you at any point during it feel like you loved her, however, the question you quoted was maybe posed wrong. I didnt mean it to be an open ended opinion in what was a calm rational conversation. I guess what I was basically asking was (in not so many words) did you feel any guilt about having this "fun" knowing you had a wife and children at home? Was this "fun" meant to be at my expense? Was this "fun" something you were lacking in our relationship and you were trying to recreate? I was trying to understand his choice of words, as well as understand how knowing that you are betraying the one person in life who chose to love you could it be any fun at all.

I know that I keep being told there is nothing logical about what he did but on the other hand that cannot be used as an excuse to dismiss what he did either. I have a really difficult time with the gray area I am a very black and white person...you love someone you dont hurt them. This was a choice...his choice, not mine. HIS choice has changed the rest of MY life without my knowledge or consent yet I am willing to accept that and keep moving forward. So I really dont think its to much for him to answer questions no matter how many times I ask them even if the answer is simply I dont know (I have accepted that as an answer before).

I guess essentially what I am feeling is that again he is putting his feelings and needs before mine, which he has admittedly done our entire marriage. On the whole if our R is moving forward in a positive direction and answering questions isnt wrecking what we have worked so hard for these past few months then wouldnt answering them be easier than making me think your hiding something??

I feel like he at least owes me that much for altering the rest of my life is to answer questions when I have them. Only 2 people have the answers to my questions and he has been dead set against me contacting the other person who has them. So if he doesnt want to answer them and doesnt want me to ask AP then where do I get answers??

I do try to understand the whole addiction theory (with alcoholic parents, substance addicted siblings, you would think I'd get it) but to me this is a conscious, sober decision to lie to me and if it wasn't that uncomfortable to have unprotected anal sex with a woman from the internet (who was also M and having multiple A with other men at the same time she was with my H)at my mental and physical expense then I feel he doesnt have the right to pull the uncomfortable card on me now because it is convenient for him again. So he gets to do the deed, dump on me then run away and not help me mend...thats not gonna work.

We no longer have any knock down drag out name calling screaming yelling discussions about the A. Just want to be able to discuss if I so choose to without being dismissed like my feelings dont matter.

That really does suck, if he's putting his needs above yours and that's been a constant pattern. I'll let the experts advise as I can't imagine how one would deal with this.
I'm so sorry you are suffering :-(

Certainly no expert here, but that never stops me...

It sounds like what you really want is transparency. You want to know that the affair and the person behind it are gone for good, and not locked away in his mind. Not off in a corner to be savored from time to time. Letting go of all the secrets, sweeping all the corners clean, is the first step in demolishing the lingering allure of the affair-for both of you. This according to Dr. Glass, and I believe it to be true.

The resistance and attitude, if he is genuinely committed to the marriage, may be mollified by creating a safe setting for such discussions. I can't remember if you are in counseling, but perhaps in the C's office, acting as a facilitator/mediator is one option. Penny had recommended to us to set so many hours aside, and take 30 minutes a day to ask questions. Stick to facts about the affair. As mags said, there really are no 'answers' to feelings. "Did you love her?" vs. "Did you say you loved her?"; "Did you discuss me with her?" vs "How could you do this to me?".

You need the answers to questions that matter, questions that demonstrate to you that your marriage can be safe and fulfilling, and that he will protect you. You need to know that no more secrets will fall on you later like a piano out of the sky. He needs to know that every time he turns around he won't be facing another question that puts him on the spot, indefensible and unanswerable as mags said. There should be times for disclosure, and times for working on the now, being in the now with each other. Discuss this with him and see if you both can't agree on some boundaries for such thing. A good counselor should be able to help out too. And don't forget Penny...

quote:

l wait for the experts to pop in for that!

What makes you think you're not an expert? Been there? Done that? Know what it feels like? Know what works and doesn't work for you? Know why?

Seems to that's just as important -- if not more so! -- than having read a book or two .... or seven.

Never think your point of view is not utterly important and valued ..... it is ...... and I am glad you're here.

All of you!

P (who obviously slept waay to long and is feeling a bit feisty!)

Hehe - thanks Penny!
And I second what Gregory said - well put and way more concisely than I ever manage to. His points seem like a great way to encourage honesty and safety at the same time, Lost. And he is one who has managed to travel that crazily hard path of practising it too - creating a safe place even while the emotions are telling you to just run and scream and jump and accuse. I can't even fathom that sort of strength/restraint! But I admire it tremendously...

The "attitude" he gets whenever you bring up a thought or question tells a lot about him. My H would, and still does, cry out of guilt and remorse whenever I want to talk about how I am feeling on any particular day about what he did. I think if he got angry would infuriate me because it would tell me he really doesn't care what I'm feeling, just don't bring him down. Why is he so adamant that you do not talk to the AP? I'm kinda getting in here a little late but that would throw up huge red flags if it were me. When my H had unprotected sex with a ONS, he just had shown her the picture of me and our family in his wallet. I made him take it out and tear it into pieces and throw it out the car window because it didn't mean crap to him. I understand completely what you are saying. I also felt like he played russian roulet with my life becaue he didn't know if she HIV and then he came home and slept with me, I could be dying right now. OK, I know I am suppose to be saying encouraging words now instead of making you feel worse, but I want you to know your thoughts are VALID and IMPORTANT. You have to seperate what that facts are and what you think they are. That was hard at first. The facts are, most women equate sex with love and it is hard to understand that men don't. He is probably telling you the truth when he says he didn't love her or have any true feelings for her. That is a good thing. Seeing your pain is the best way to keep him from doing it again so don't hide that from him. It is a BIG step that you can talk about it now without screaming and name calling so you should feel encouraged about that. I don't know if he will ever be able to answer all your questions because I honestly don't think they have the answers. What they did was so selfish and spontaneous they really didn't think it through before they acted on it so they don't have the answers we are needing. That is also one of those facts thats hard to accept but true. I am over a year into this and things do get better with time. We all wish we had that delete key but m my best source of healing has been his willingness to listen and my faith in God. Find your peace somewhere even for short amounts of time, you will be able to think more clearly with your head and not your heart.

Have you tried asking him, when he's calm and not dashing off somewhere, what's up with the defensiveness and irritation?

I'd be curious to hear what he has to say.

How's all the other stuff? Ready for summer?

P

Again I must say I am truly in awe of all of you...you are a wonderful bunch of helpful people who I am truly greatful to have had the pleasure to "meet"

As for asking him calmly whats up with that...his defensive and irritated response was..."you make me have attitude because answering makes me uncomfortable." So it is my fault he has an attitude.

I know I keep repeating myself, by I swear I honestly do stick to questions that have answers. Nor do I ever have him backed into a corner and feeling pressured. Most if not all of our conversations are rational "fact finding" conversations. As Gregory put it, I need to know that this OW does not hold some deep secret place in his mind that he fondly revisits, and the above conversation is the FIRST time he said anything negative about her unprompted. However the tone it came out in seems to be one of I am saying this out of obligation to make you feel better but it is not really what I feel.

There are other surrounding issues I guess that I had not pieced together until we had heated words last night and I got to thinking where we are at this point. I truly believe that he is a NPD and he agrees that he fits the criteria...but shrugs it off as he is who he is...and last night he was way busy trying not to fall off his pedestal and berate everyone else at the same time...

As for the other things...I am seeing them as huge red flags, but I really want to believe in my gut that he has not broken NC...I CANT believe that he could be that crazy after all we've been through these last few months.

It started with the defensiveness, then last week or around then I noticed that he changed the ringer I had downloaded to his phone (youre still the one) when I asked him, he said the guys at worked looked at him funny when it rang...hmmm ok...then a few days ago I noticed that the backround pic on his cell had changed from a pic of me (rather provocative too) to a stock pic of some boats?? when I asked again he said some guy at work asked to borrow his phone and he rather nobody saw that pic of me than him as he is jealous and noone but him should be looking at me....hmmm goose ...gander anyone??? Ok strange but I bite considering I KNOW all the people he works with have cell phones too except for one and that was not the one he named that borrowed his phone...

Fast forward to yesterday, he comes home from work and tells me there will be a strange number on the bill becuase he made a call to someone else on his job to inquire about a transfer position to a job he has "always" wanted within his job....hmm did I mention this transfer puts him about 45 minutes further out from home and oh yeah about 45 minutes closer to OW??? also a way for me to check on him is with his bridge tolls, and this "transfer" puts him over the bridge to OW so of course he went over that bridge 5 times this week....too work....

Man I cant believe I am sitting here even thinking this is possible...

I told him in a non defensive, non argumentative , non accusatory way that since he felt my questions made him uncomfortable his feelings mean more to me than anything as I would never want him to feel hurt that I would no longer bring up, question, or discuss the A with him. It has been 3 days I have stuck to that, and I mean it. I would rather suffer in silence than hurt him.

Yesterday he had to stay late at work because one of his car pool guys had to stay...then they went to the golf driving range and came home after that. Today he got up, went to a dr appt and went from there to play a round of golf with again said work friend and will be back later this afternoon.

Tell me where do I go from here???

Hum. Yeah. I'm not liking the sound of it. The defensiveness should get better not worse. AND when you add it all together it just looks bad.

And really?? Uncomfortable answering? Please. Are you sensing any sympathy on my end?? I didn't think so. Life is uncomfortable. Get over it. That's how we grow.

So.

You're suspicious. And I think there are things that look bad. The next question is ..... what's your next move?

quote:

I would rather suffer in silence than hurt him.

Mmmmm. Yeah. Get over it. That's about you. If you really don't want to hurt him then don't let him trample your values!

Have you called the strange number on his phone? Do you have gps tracking on it -- can he verify he went where he said he did? What other avenues do you have for verification?

P

Hi, Lost! It seems like a tough time for you right now. Just wanted to chime in and say I sometimes feel the same way. There seems to always be an explanation for the behavior.

Before the A, I often took things at face value. Now I ask more questions, pay close attention, and follow up regularly. Did you call the number?

Trust your instincts.

Take care!

I'd like to get some feedback on this idea before you think about using it..

I know you said you'd NEVER want to hurt his feelings and all.. and that you'd suffer in silence. But neither of those options seem to work in the long run scheme of a marriage.. as partners do occasionally hurt each other.. and suffering in silence is just a martyr complex.

What would it be if you wrote him a letter...and left it for him at a time that he would be home alone.. so he could read it without you watching him do so.

and you stated all those things that you just wrote here and asked him point blank in the letter..

to look at it from your point of view. Sketchy, scary, guilty.

Not that you are accusing him of doing anything.. BUT from YOUR point of view.. well.. it does look and sound fishy.

And it all could be the G-d's honest truth and he is telling you everything..

then ask him if it is important to him...how things look to you. If he cares about that YOU feel threatened and frightened.

If there is a way of writing it so its not all about him.. accusing him.. but about how you view it and how you feel about it.

and then see what his reaction to that is.
If it's still defensive.. or if its care and concern.

Loui

Momma, You can't hurt HIS feelings. Only he owns those. Besides, this isn't about feelings, it's about behavior. Make it clear to *yourself* what is within bounds and what is not. You cannot control him, but you are in charge of your own boundaries regarding transparency and so on. Make sure you know where you stand and what you'll do about it. And on that note...listen to Penny. If she's suspicious, then I'd be VERY suspicious. She's so understated on these matters

Oh Lost, I'm so sorry he's giving you so much reason to suspect he's hiding again. How horrible. I think you have every right to investigate in every possible way. Let us know how it goes. I so much hope it's a false alarm but there's no point sticking ones head in the sand, so do what you need to do to find out.

And regarding the 3 days - I'm impressed at your persistence, that must have been a huge effort - but I did like Gregory's suggestion of half an hour a day instead. It's frequent enough that you aren't like a pressure cooker, predictable enough so that H doesn't get that horrible feeling of wondering when the next explosion will be, and brief enough that it won't dominate your whole day. I think also it's important that your H knows that's the plan so he knows what to expect - and knows that it will end in half an hour! Otherwise he'll be trying to give responses that he thinks will make it end instead of escalate - instead of honest responses given with the faith that it will end at the allotted time.

Good luck with your investigations. I hope it goes ok.

Hi everyone, sorry I havent updated sooner, but after I posted yesterday things went from bad to worse in a quick fashion.

I went out and ran all the errands he asked me to run while he was out playing golf (no, this is a non issue for me I honestly dont mind running errands) I finished and didnt make any extra stops because I wanted to be back home around the same time he said he would be in. Well I get there and not him then 2 hours after he says he would be home he shows up, no explanation, no I'm sorry we were running late..nothing not a word is said and I now feel the need to control my own mouth and not lose it so I dont say anything yet. Then we are sitting outside getting ready to prepare dinner and he says how they ran late because they were paired up with these 2 older retired guys who took their time and whatnot so he did alot of waiting around, and I ask him (calmy) did the thought cross his mind to give me/home a call to let us know he was running 2 hours late?? To which his response was I couldnt call I had no time to call...ummmm huh?? (read sentence above???) So I say to him you you had no time to call home cuz you were busy standng around waiting and doing nothing??? Am I hearing this correctly?? He says I didnt have my watch on (never EVER knew he didnt wear a watch while plaing golf...) so he didnt know what time it was...last time he knew it was about 2:30....I ask him at what hole on the golf course he was on when he knew this..he said the 11th...I then asked him if he had thought to call home then realizing he was only about halfway done but about a half hour from when he said he would be home...no answer... He then proceeds to adjust his watch and I see he is sunburned with a watch tan...hmmmm interesting but wasnt interested in arguing at that point.

I tried at this point to go on about the kids and dinner and the evening and not really push the issue.

This morning, It had rained all night last night and my windshield of my car had cracked yesterday so I went out to make sure it hadnt leaked (thankfully it hadnt) in the meantime I remembered he had left a day or sol old newspaper in his car that had an article that I had previously didnt want to read but had changed my mind and went to get it from his car. When I sat in his car and leaned over I realized his phone was on the front seat and as I always do I picked it up and opened it. Inside it read unregistered sim (not a problem our phones ALL of them occasionally do this) and the only way to correct it is to power off the phone and then power it back on which I though I was doing something kind and time saving for him by doing it for him (no problem as this didnt even have me suspicious since all of our phones do this) I turn to get out of the car and he is standing on the front porch arms folded asking me what I was snooping for...ok suspicious now!!!

We go back in the house I explained why I was in the car and the phone and all and that I was not snooping but his response to me being in his car makes me feel like I shoulda been. He told me that I dont trust him and that if I wanted to know if anything was in the car I should ask and he would tell me....UMMM YEAH RIGHT!!!! I told him he has already proven to be sooo trustworthy that I will never ever go on blind faith again.

So we sit in the kitchen and are having a "heated discussion" (not argument) and I mention to him that I had posted here and that the general response was that this is behaviors I should be concerned about...then he loses it basically telling me that if I were going to come here and discuss him and us then he should at least be filled in on that...leaving me no room to explain to him that I just wanted third party opinions/explanations/advice etc... but he was not included in the discussion that was his gripe.

When I told him I didnt think it was fair that he didnt feel he needed to answer questions and that was what I feel he at least owed me his response was I answered them all already. I told him I didnt care that it made him uncomfortable I DESERVED answers no matter how many times I ask. I asked him does he care how his actions make me feel whether they are valid thoughts or not does he care how they make me feel and his response was that answering makes him uncomfortable and when does his feelings count, to which I replied ummm regarding the affair??...never... I told him I was sorry that answering made him uncomfortable but it was not like I badgered him on a daily basis with questions and that I hadnt asked questions in quite some time prior to this and his response was right so we are moving forward so why ask questions now...I told him becasue I can. I also told him that I didnt think that asking a few questions every so often was too much to ask considering he without my knowledge or consent decided to alter the rest of my life. He said so in five years you can ask a question and still expect me to answer...I said ummm yeah IF I had a question in fove years and asked I would expect a respectful answer from you. He wasnt happy with that. I feel like just because I ask questions and such and as long as it is not affecting our progress what difference does it make, answer the questions and thats it.

I honestly and truly in my heart and gut do NOT want to believe NC has been broken. However my GINORMOUS fear is that he is returning exactly as I said he would to the selfish, self-deserving, self centered person he was and has always been all through our marriage (I did relay this feeling to him). The only difference is that I am not willing to sit by anymore while he lives a self revolving life at everyone elses expense. He asked me to give him 3 examples of him showing selfishness recently. I had NOOOO problem rattling off 3 major ones right from the top of my head that all happened within the last few days. He had no response.

Then I explained to him how come he wants me to be over this and to stop asking questions because it has been 8 Long Months but yet when it comes to parenting and relationships his response to this is I'm new to this it has only been 8 months. 8 months is 8 months no matter how you slice it up. This is classic example of him twisting lifes scenarios to fit him and his needs only. 8 months is 8 months no matter how you look at it.

At this point the big boys came in from school and could tell from the looks on our faces something was up so I immediately dropped the conversation and refocused our attention to them.

I am now realizing that he has to make a comittment to making permanent change or I cannot go forward with this. I am not and will not spend the next 15 as unhappy as the first 15.

Now to try and answer some of the questions.....

He is adamant about me not contacting the AP because he swears anything she would tell me would be just a lie anyway, after all what reason does she have to be honest with me since I outted her to her H and friends publicly.

As for calling the strange number this is tricky being his line of work if this is a correct number as he said it could cause alot of trouble.

As for the martyr complex I get what is being said, however this is how I have lived our entire marriage, making sure he was happy at any expense just to keep our family together, and I am almost willing to do it again for my kids. Not trying to be a martyr but trying to keep some sense of sanity and stability in my kids life. If daddy is happy life is smooth if daddy is not happy then you can cut the tension with a knofe and none is allowed to be happy.

Writing a letter to him is something we already do with each other...we have a notebook that is ours alone and we each check it periodically. in it we write back and forth to each other good bad indifferent whatever it goes into the notebook, however ths notebook doesnt work when he is like he has been because he is not receptive to the fact that his actions could be causing ANY problems at all it is always someone elses fault.

Asking him questions for a half an hour every day would drain the living h*ll outta me never mind him...so I am at the point where I question myslef with my questions and see if asking them would really accomplish anything, are there any real answers to what I am asking, is this something that I feel we cannot move on from if I dont ask or have an answer....if it seems to me after questioning my question that I still need an answer then I go ahead and ask, but basically I rarely ask questions any more.

I think I tried to hit every point but if I missed any I am sorry.

Thank you each and every one of you for being here and being my support system when I have noone else.

I'm so sorry Lost. Sounds like you're feeling so unconsidered and uncared for and uncertain right now. What a horrible sad place to have to be in. Take care of yourself! I know it's hard - but buy your favourite ice cream or get a massage or something! Even a short term break from feeling unhappy is better than none?

As for your H, I'm very concerned that he's paranoid about you snooping, and that he seems unwilling to make a long term effort to help you heal. And I can't see how your marriage can heal without that. I have no idea if he's up to something or not, but it really worries me that he doesn't see the need to be extra-accountable with his time, extra-snoopable with his stuff, and extra-answerable to your questions given what's happened. Has he read much stuff on this board? Could you give some of it to him to read? If he's so self absorbed, maybe he doesn't know what to expect, what to do - he keeps hoping he can make it go away by avoiding it? He may not fully understand how long term a healing process this is.
On his part, it probably looks pretty depressing to him looking down the barrel of infinite years of still being answerable for what he has (I very much hope) moved on from. BUT.... if that is the price for doing something like that AND still keeping your family - then it is the price. It must be paid, however unpleasant. I think you can do stuff like make it more easily payable - i.e. with the half hour a day thing, the no accusations thing - and I think because you have an interest in the marriage that's good to do. But that doesn't let him off having to pay it. You can't be the only one paying for what has happened. Sad to say, even though you weren't the one who did it, you are paying for it. But you shouldn't have to do that - and struggle through - on your own.
That's my opinion anyway.

LM,

I'm proud of how you handled yourself. You're in a difficult position. There is a lot of uncertainty that is throwing you off balance. But the uncertainty isn't about him, it's about you, I'm afraid.

Ok, so he must make a commitment to permanent change or you cannot go forward. What does that look like? What exactly are you going to do? I hear something really vague and ambivalent.

You will not spend the next 15 years unhappy.

Sounds good. What's that got to do with him?

There's a commitment to permanent change I'd like to see you make- to be happy. Happy married, happy single, happy on a mountaintop. You don't need a faithful committed husband in order to be happy. You prefer it, but you don't need it. You may decide it's necessary in order to stay married to him, but not to decide whether or not you're happy.

And if this sounds like something out of a page-a-day calendar, I'm telling you it has everything to do with the very real life practical decisions you will make.

The work you need to do isn't about figuring him out, it's about figuring you out. Dare I say it's even harder to do?

All I can say is HMMMMMMMMMMMMM.....

And...he needs to get over it. His actions are what has put him in the place of being ACCOUNTABLE for where he is and who he speaks with on the phone to begin with.


I'm emailing you here in a minute with another suggestion.

UPDATE:

Well after he took a nap this evening I told him that if he was that upset about me having posted here about what was going on and he felt I was being dishonest or onesided in my posts here to make him a monster then he was free to go read all my posts here and I had the computer set out on the table opened to this topic. I asked him that while reading I only had one request, if he came upon anything that I posted that he felt was untrue or onesided or didnt reflect our situation accuratly to please tell me what so it could be clarified.

He then proceeded to sit down and read.

After reading I asked him if there was anything ... anything???? that I had not portrayed accuratly and he said no. I again repeated that I do NOT come here as a WH bashing out, but instead to try and find some rational to what I am feeling and seeing from others who BTDT.

He then told me that he had the inter-office flyer for the promotional transfer within his job and that it had the "strange" phone number on it to confirm this. He got it and showed it to me with the phone to confirm.

I asked him if he was running late to meet the guys for golf, or running late to his work carpool what would he do, his response was that he would call to let them know I asked him why then am I not afforded the same common courtesy?? He said he didnt think it mattered and it was unimportant and I explained to him that just because it didnt matter to him doesnt mean it didnt matter to others. I explained that I thought maybe he had stopped for a bite to eat after golf with his friend and maybe I should have just gone ahead with dinner for the kids. He got my point, but the problem is he always gets my point...after the fact. I am downright tired of trying to explain to him after the fact what common courtesy is, what it is to consider someone elses feeling before making decisions. Basically tired of the pedestal he has put himself on. That pedestal is what led us to where we are. He felt entitled to get what he wanted and what he wanted was to have this A. Our relationship has always been about him and what he wanted. He feels everyone else is inferior to him and treats everyone that way. True to form of a NPD although he seems boastful he has a rather fragile self esteem, and this is what AP preyed on. She made him feel HUGE in his mind. Its his decisions, his way or no way at all. Always had been that way. During the first few months of our R I did see him trying to change that, gave me hope. Now not so much, he has slipped RAPPIDLY back into that person on a pedestal with anger management issues. I WONT live with that anymore!

It is my intention to bring this up in our next counseling session and open the dialogue from there. I truly dont know how you medically treat something like that but I am willing to learn to save this marriage.

Its just hard to swallow this whole mess considering that early on I said I was afraid that his changes were being made simply to retain the family package and that just as soon as he felt sufficient time had passed and all had blown over he would be right back up to his old games again and he assured me no this was not the case. The changes he was making was going to be the new him for us. That he had realized the way he was almost cost him his whole family and everything he held dearly and knew that he was wrong and had to change. But I pinned the tail on the donkey early on and now I am feeling like the donkey.

Any suggestions on how to get through this and save us with someone who feels he is better than everyone else??

Ooops forgot to add, I understand how my statements seem vague or ambivilent but I have made a decision to be happy..happy married or single whatever, but I am going to be happy. What thats got to do with him is he is either going to commit to and stick to dealing with his personality disorder and I will stay happy married or he wont and I will stay happy single. BUT I will be happy. Tah much about me I have figured out.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Lost*Momma,