im angry because of the lies and he denies but then when hes angry he says things to hurt me he told me yesterday "I let her listen to your phone messages" he will also try and tell me "YOu can think what you want she is almost 50, im not with her, youll see" hes back and forth about paying lawyer. and just recently said hes putting our house up for sale. Im scared with the holidays that the boys and i will be stuck trying to get into an apartment or something. the boys are devastated. Also i have fears that hes trying to sell the house to be with her so he will financially be free? i havent spoke with him since yesterday but i find myself wishing he would call

From a compassionate stance, and this is much easier for me to achieve than it is for you (because I'm not directly feeling the pain), you can see that he is inconsistent. You can see that he is lying to himself as much as anyone else. You can see that he is instable, and that he is making a wreck of his life and is unable or unwilling to control it. He may not even see, yet, that he's making a wreck of it.

From that place of understanding his confusion and destruction of himself, you can respond to his statements from a place of compassion.

Now, you also need to have compassion for yourself. (I'm not one to talk about this, so I sincerely hope someone else shows up. To say anything about this right now would feel hypocritical to me.)

I don't know anything about your situation. How can he sell the house without your consent? What would he be paying the lawyer for?

My biggest question is, "Why are you speaking to him at all?"

The last question goes back to compassion for yourself. Can you have enough compassion for yourself to protect yourself from his destructive path?

i hope someone responds also to this, i havent spoke with him for almost a week its really hard i find myself analyzing everything wondering if he will choose her over us. He tells the kids that they are just friends

quote:

My biggest question is, "Why are you speaking to him at all?"

Please answer this.

I dont want a divorce and i feel like the longer he goes without talking to any of us he will just go on with his life with her. I know that we both need healing and i dont plan on talking to him until he can treat me right and talk to me right is that stupid. My heart is broken its hard not to cling to him and beg him to come home and promise to change whatever needs to change. It just feels like he never wanted the responseabilitys

what is the best thing for me to do to wake him up so he will snap out of it

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what is the best thing for me to do to wake him up so he will snap out of it

Intervention Phase followed by a swift Protection Phase, I'm afraid. You can't just "snap him out of it." If I had a formula for that, I'd publish it and make millions of $$. For that matter, I'd also give it to you for free and help end the hurting ASAP.

The best thing that you can do to change your situation is to focus on you.

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I dont want a divorce and i feel like the longer he goes without talking to any of us he will just go on with his life with her.

Kimmy, I'm afraid I do know a sure-fire formula for getting a divorce. That is to stay in contact. To make it more effective, you would beg him to come back - often. I'm not talking from theory or study on this one. I'm talking from observation and experience. I've been observing now for over 3.5 years. I've never seen the talking to him and begging him (or her) approach work - never. I've seen hundreds try it.

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I know that we both need healing and i dont plan on talking to him until he can treat me right and talk to me right is that stupid.

Honey, I don't want to talk about what's stupid. If we do, I'll have to honestly list the stupid things I've done, and we will be here forever and a day. Let's talk about instinct. Your instinct right now is to give him whatever he wants so that he will make the hurting stop and commit to you and your marriage. This, unfortunately, does not work. This just demonstrates your emotional dependency on him and will encourage him to continue to "have his cake and eat it too." This is why P wrote rules #1 and #2. Have you read them?

Primary Rule One: Your emotions and instincts will lead you in the wrong direction 99.9% of the time when you are deciding what to do about a mate's infidelity.

Primary Rule Two: Ignore almost all of what your straying spouse says s/he wants from you, how s/he feels about the marriage, threats they make in reaction to your steps to stop the affair, and all talk about "it's over, get over it, I never loved you anyway, and there is no hope."

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My heart is broken its hard not to cling to him and beg him to come home and promise to change whatever needs to change.

Yes, it is hard. No one is going to tell you that it is easy. It will likely be one of the hardest things you ever do. I speak from experience, so does Penny, Just J, Starfish...

This is why I suggest focusing on you and getting yourself to a place of power where you can do what is very difficult to do.

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It just feels like he never wanted the responseabilitys

Ah...this reminds me of a conversation I had in Silver Spring not 2 hours ago...

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i hope someone responds also to this, i havent spoke with him for almost a week its really hard i find myself analyzing everything wondering if he will choose her over us.

This situation wasn't created overnight, and it will not be resolved overnight. Hyperanalyzing (a strong trait of mine, I might add) will only make the ride worse for you. I'm very glad that you haven't spoken to him in over a week.

What does concern me, though, is the message he gets from that. Have you sent a Protection Phase letter explaining your actions, your intentions, and the conditions for resuming contact?

quote:

He tells the kids that they are just friends

Ok, let's look at this for a minute. First, I'm not surprised. I would be surprised if he admits to anyone (besides her) that they are anything but friends. How old are your children?

Have you done the exposure associated with Intervention Phase yet? If so, how did you handle it? What was his reaction?

i exposed his affair to family and friends and i confronted him that i was aware it was an affair. He claimed "its not an affair we are not together" so i told him last week that i loved him and i wanted our marriage to work but icouldnot go on like this that i wanted him to stay away to protect our marriage he says he dont want a divorce. My oldest son (17) went to see him the other night and said he seemed real depressed and that his buddy said he came home from work monday night and got drunk. I think hes depressed because he feels guilty. Any how, i did tell him he needed to end the affair with her inorder to come home. I understand these things take time i feel she is tugging at his heart. Thanks so much for talking to me i got on an anti depressant but im still feeling down. where do you live my personal email is kcsellers@hotmail.com i signed up for this other site survivors of cheats but they all tell me to walk away i dont think they are pro marriage. The hard thing is i want to feel like hes coming home because he wants to be here not because hes forced to. how do approach it if he does try to call or make contact?

my boys are 17, 14, 9 and 1

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i exposed his affair to family and friends and i confronted him that i was aware it was an affair.

quote:

He claimed "its not an affair we are not together"

I've heard that so many times I wish I had just a for each. Read rule #2.

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so i told him last week that i loved him and i wanted our marriage to work but icouldnot go on like this that i wanted him to stay away to protect our marriage

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he says he dont want a divorce.

Do you see the positive in this?

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My oldest son (17) went to see him the other night and said he seemed real depressed and that his buddy said he came home from work monday night and got drunk. I think hes depressed because he feels guilty.

How about he's not particularly happy? Why is he not particularly happy? You may be right about the guilt, but I don't think that's all of it. I think he is feeling the effects of withdrawal from CONTACT WITH YOU and having you meeting his needs. He does not want to make a decision. He's uncomfortable. Good. That's the point - to upset the status quo and protect yourself and your marriage.

quote:

Any how, i did tell him he needed to end the affair with her inorder to come home.

Does he know how to prove that he has done this? What steps does he have to take? Who does he notify when that has been done?

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I understand these things take time i feel she is tugging at his heart.

She is tugging at his heart. It would be a pity for her to stop now. In effect, she would be doing what you are doing. She will see him withdraw...she will feel it. She will get the same urges you do to call him, shock some sense into him, make him snap out of it, beg him... Read what I said above about where this behavior leads. What will YOU be doing while she is doing that? That's what you need to focus on.

"I will be staying out of contact with him."
"I will be appearing calm, poised, confident, strong, secure, and firm in my insistence upon the standards with which I am willing to engage."

Try it with me...what will you be doing? Give me a list...(keep in mind that he's not seeing your internal turmoil - also one of the points of NC)...let's see if you can get at least 5.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

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Thanks so much for talking to me i got on an anti depressant but im still feeling down.

I am glad that you did this. I think that this helps immeasurably. There is a difference between feeling down and reeling out of control or feeling self-destructive.

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where do you live my personal email is

I live in the Baltimore, MD area.

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i signed up for this other site survivors of cheats but they all tell me to walk away i dont think they are pro marriage.

I think I could have guessed that they are not promarriage by the name. Not survivors of infidelity. Not overcoming infidelity. Not surviving spousal infidelity. "Survivors of Cheats"...the word "cheats" speaks volumes about where they are coming from - a place of victimhood and anger. Please stay away from the victim and anger advocates. You have enough of that to deal with...don't join a group that will feed those feelings.

Start to talk to me about how you are strong. Tell me how and why you aren't responsible. What is so fabulous about you? What makes you the only YOU in the world - unique, special, valuable, and irreplaceable?

quote:

The hard thing is i want to feel like hes coming home because he wants to be here not because hes forced to.

If you work the conditions of resuming contact and letting him come back into your life (which I think should PRECEDE him moving back in), he will be there because he wants to be. He didn't want to make a choice before. Now he has to. When he comes back, it is because he CHOSE to instead of CHOSING to do something else...and because he worked for it.

quote:

how do approach it if he does try to call or make contact?

Ignore emails - do not respond. Do you have an Email Intermediary? Do you have caller ID? If so, don't answer. If you don't and he's on the line say, "I have asked you not to contact me, please respect that." Say it in the calmest, most even-toned voice you can muster. No emotion. Emotion shows him that he got to you. The same way you would tell someone you are not emotionally invested in to leave you alone. Do not respond to mail...unless it is legal (then get a lawyer to do it). If he stops by, don't answer the door.

will it be possible for him to just move on with his life with her because i am staying away? im not sure what conditions to set inorder for him to come home or how i will believe it is over between them. im at the point i feel like he has kept me holding on knowing hes already gone?

Try this with me. I think listing and seeing your value will help reassure you more than any pretty words ever could.

**************************

What will YOU be doing while she is doing that? That's what you need to focus on.

"I will be staying out of contact with him."
"I will be appearing calm, poised, confident, strong, secure, and firm in my insistence upon the standards with which I am willing to engage."

Try it with me...what will you be doing? Give me a list...(keep in mind that he's not seeing your internal turmoil - also one of the points of NC)...let's see if you can get at least 5.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

1. keeping my mind occupied spend time with friends

2. focus on my kids

3. work out at the y

4. work part time

5. reading

i dont know what else i can do to get rid of the anxiety i feel like im just waiting for him to call or at least try to contact me. if im not tugging at his heart and hes spending all his time with her how will it help our marriage by me staying away from him isnt it "out of sight out of mind?"

This is a good start. What about family? What will you be doing with the kids? Do you have other family to visit, call, talk to, or just visit and not say anything?

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"out of sight out of mind?"

Think of an alcoholic, Kimmy. Is this true? Is drinking out of their mind just because a drink isn't in front of them? What about a drug addict?

No, I disagree entirely with "out of sight; out of mind." As a matter of fact, I'm beginning to think "conventional wisdom" is an oxymoron.

tak- how long does the protection phase usually go on before you see changes? just curious. would love to know more about your situation. I feel like because he hasnt even tried to call he doesnt care usually he tries and sees the kids on sundays havent heard a word from him. Is it a good sign that he says and has said the whole time he doesnt want a divorce? thats positive right he has been consistent about that and stopped paying the lawyer etc in july

Kimmy,

I see a lot of positive signs in your story. I just don't think you are going to be able to appreciate the positive fully until you work on YOU.

If he says he doesn't want a divorce, that is a positive sign. You know that, and you don't need to have me tell you it. Of course, we all need reassurances from time to time; however, I think you won't be obsessing for them once you get into a position of self-value where you recognize your inherent self-worth and value to others.

I don't know that I have a "usual" time period for no contact to give to you. I've seen a month or two work. I've seen it take much longer.

tak thanks for your info you still havent told me much about you and your story?

My story...oh wow. It is spread over about 6000 posts at MB and a few hundred here.

What do you want to know? The gist of it is in my signature line.