Morning all. I'm a newby, launched toward SYMC by the recommendation of a friend. Having read
the SYMC home page, "About" material and the
introduction to the forums, I think I get some
of the picture. I'm glad SYMC exists. The "Fog
Love vs. Real Love" and "overcoming lack of trust"
topics provided interest and learning and maybe
even contributed to healing. So thanks SYMC and all, and I've decided to continue. This post provides a brief summary of my situation that certainly colors my perspective.

I guess my acronym is H. Or maybe H with a
modifier, because my W left me three weeks
ago for an OW. That's right. Now this first post could go on to inappropriate length, so I'll recount history in outline form.
* Married 1976.
* None of the involved parties have any children.
* I had affairs with OW's, 1988-1992.
* The 1992 affair persisted, I moved in with OW, my wife's mental illness got much worse.
* At request of W and her psychiatrist, all communication with W ceased except legal papers.
* Divorced in 1995, she got more, I got enough to live, we both agreed to it.
* Married OW in 1996.
* No affairs for me since 1992.
* Huge commitment of time, energy and money to build new house and lead big project at work 1996-1998.
* My new W started affair with OM in 1998.
* I confronted W multiple times, it was obvious what was going on but had no hard evidence, she lied and lied, I thought insisting on NC would end my marriage and lacked the energy, courage and good sense to insist on NC, and unwisely did not seek help for us.
* It went on and on, finally in 2004 I got fed up, sought and got hard evidence, confronted her, she agreed to no "in person" contact but wanted to continue email, expressed regret, remorse, wanted to reestablish our marriage.
* I found I couldn't trust her and therefore couldn't love her anymore. More accurately, I could not trust her with my love. Again unwisely neither of us sought outside help.
* We plodded on 4 additional years, not fighting, respecting each other in all mundane matters, 'getting along', but with no deep, commited, trusting, passionate love for either of us.
* She fell in love with a woman, a mutual friend. This OW had an established 10-year relationship with yet another woman. Our marriage and that other relationship ended three weeks ago when my W and her OW announced they were in love. They moved in together in a small place nearby, I am left living in the house.
* I see no path for restoring the trust I would need to reestablish with my W. She is definitely not inclined. I plan to file for divorce.
* The pain and hurt (especially that experienced by my first wife) of all this has taught me the importance of acting on the ethical rights and wrongs here - dishonesty is wrong, openness and communication are essential and top priorities, and marriage must be entered honestly and with deep thought and consideration, and once entered must be sustained in honesty and openness. I.e. the 'attachment' phase of love must be recognized and sustained as a unique, one-to-one relationship. It must become as one-to-one as the romantic love.
* I'm doing OK now. I have learned, grown and become a better human by experiencing these events and relationships in which I did wrong, and in which I suffered from wrongs done by others.
* The practical aspects of my life are in reasonably good order, and though the divorce and all will be a lot of work, I feel strong enough to see it through.
* My soul and my emotional side are not great, but not horrible. Three obvious manifestations during the past month are: (i) Pain squelched over the past 10 years is coming to the surface; (ii) Mood swings are larger than normal (iii) Loneliness is hitting hard.

There you have it, and I'm grateful the Post a Topic text box can hold all that!

My plan is to visit this forum pretty much each day, and to read, learn and when I think it will be helpful, contribute from my perspective.

Thanks to one and all, and happy new year.

Welcome Sonic! Of course we are all sorry for what brings you here but are happy to welcome you in. It sounds like you have been through and are going through a lot. My heart goes out to you.

Can you tell us more about the state of communication with your wife right now?

Thanks Tiggy. Yes I can say more about the state
of communication with my wife. We had long discussions in the first week after she announced her new love and her intentions. We delved into our past, recognized and admitted to each other mistakes we had made, and regretted we hadn't acted 10 years ago. I was thorough, careful and alert to any indication that she wanted to attempt to reconcile with me, and to my own mind and soul whether I wanted to and could reconcile with her. There is no indication on both counts. I wish her well in her new love and new life. I think she feels the same for me, although of course I haven't a new love at this time. Because of the past 10-year history I summarized in my first post, I have also experienced anger toward her bubbling up. But it hasn't resulted in any 'fights', verbal or otherwise. (We never engaged in physical violence and very seldom 'fought' verbally). I think she feels some anger towards me as well, because our many mutual friends have mostly 'sided' with me despite my explicit efforts to explain that both of us played a role in bringing us to this point, and that I prefer they remain friends with both of us. She is making a mistake by assuming these friends will all side with me, and I have told her that. She needs to reach out to them, but it's her decision.

Meanwhile, we are completely civil and deferential in our communications between each other. It is nearly 100% about mundane practical details - furnishings and kitchen ware she needs at her new place, how we'll divide our assets, etc.

It is painful for me to see her, and to see them together at this time, but I think that may wear off over time. It seems quite clear to me that my pain has been triggered by her new, current relationship, but its origin is really in her affair that began in 1998.

Hi ViewSonic9,
Welcome and glad you found us. Sorry though you're in the club no one ever thought they wanted to be a member.

I can understand why you feel the way you do - somewhat resolved that your W's relationship with OW is a reality. It is indeed a relationship. And while your marriage may be a picture of people who are still learning what a long term relationship is....it is also a significant relationship in both your lives (no matter what she is saying now). I know we live in a throwaway society, but long term relationships aren't as easily discarded in from our souls, even if the court system makes it easy on paper.

I can understand why you feel hurt and angry over the betrayal....it was a dishonest betrayal of marriage vows. I think you might give yourself permission to feel angry about it, to feel hurt, to feel (period). Because it isn't OK, no matter how much water is under the bridge. We can learn to regulate those emotions, to feel compassion, etc....but I personally think (and I have no scientific back-up for this), I think the first step is to say "yes, I feel betrayed....and it hurts. I had the right expect fidelity."

I respect your respect for your W's feelings. It is enormously mature and I give you a lot of credit for that. To give her everything at your own expense can be very damaging for you. And you do have a say in how you feel, how you react, how you give your heart away. You can't control her, but you can control you. So, in case you're looking for free advice think about you first, and then her. It isn't a bad thing, and in fact, it's a skill highly underrated.

So you...how are holding up physically? Eating ok? Sleeping enough? Getting outside when you can for fresh air?

Best regards,
GS

Hello GS, and thank you for the welcome and the
thoughtful post. It is comforting just to know
that others with related experience care enough to read, comment and suggest.

I quite agree with you that marriages, including
my own of 18 and 15 years respectively, are not
throwaway items. I'm sure both of them will inhabit some part of my soul until the end. All
I meant to say was I am also certain that divorce is the best option in my current situation, and that I have considered this very carefully.

Be assured, I DO feel betrayed, it does hurt, and I don't mean to make a secret of those facts.

Thank you for the good (and free!) advice - I am taking it, that is, I am thinking of myself first. I have no intention of giving her everything, whether it be material, emotional, social or anything else. I do intend to do what is right and what is fair, and I am in the process of figuring out what that is.

Thanks much for your concern. FYI I am holding up quite well physically. I do daily workouts (used to be a long-distance runner, but now that all the cartilage is gone from my right knee I bicycle, walk, hike and lift weights. I eat a very healthy diet, though I do need to eat less :-) . I'm sleeping well and fresh air is no problem, I live amidst a beautiful forest where it's a joy to be outside.

Happy Friday to you!
VSonic9

VSonic, I am out of time but wanted you to know I am reading. We are driving a couple of hours to see my family today in just a bit.

Just a couple of clarifying things to make sure I am tracking with you. You found out about the affair 3 weeks ago when your wife moved out - is that right? I am just trying to get the timeline right. By the way, I really liked how you wrote your original post - very readable with a lot of information.

Take care and talk to you soon.

Hi ViewSonic, and welcome to SYMC. FYI, my first marriage was to a woman (I'm female) and you'll find no great surprise from us that a partner (whether spouse, affair, or whatever) is same-sex. People is people and relationships is relationships.

So I'm wondering what you're thinking would be good growth directions for you? You've been through two marriages and had your own affairs. You've clearly learned from your experiences and from those of the people you love. You've learned that avoiding conflict only postpones it and makes it harder to deal with. So -- what do you do with that? How do you put it into a consistent whole and make a life plan out of it?

Hello Tiggy, hope your visit goes well.
The timeline is that I found out about the affair, then shortly after that my wife moved out to live with her AP. The decision for her to move out was mutual between us, and came after we had long, in-depth discussions out of which it became evident that she was going ahead with the affair no matter what, she sees the affair as the beginning of her new, long-term relationship, and I didn't want the two of them living here in our house. She was flexible to the extent of offering to leave the house and get her own place (which she did) or stay in the house if I wanted to move out. I decided not to move out.

So, in brief, the sequence was:

1. I learned of the affair (almost 1 month ago)
2. W and I had intense discussions about it over about 4-5 days, during which she spent all her free time with AP.
3. W and I discussed living arrangements, I decided to stay in the house, she and AP found another place to live.
4. W moved out.

Items 1-4 together took about 1 week.

Hi Just_J. I couldn't agree more about people is people. My circle of close friends has about as many same-sex couples as opposite-sex couples.

Good questions. My life plan is a work in progress. Some elements are clear, others not yet clear. For example, the affair is very much 'in my face' here, so to speak, and I'll admit being tempted to cut and run, by moving to another community in this area, or even moving to another state after the divorce (I'm pretty employable, despite the economic mess in the world). Tempted, but not persuaded. My friends here are wonderful and very important and exert a strong pull for me to stay put. So my plan includes the fact taht I am resolved NOT to do anything in haste, or to panic, etc., i.e. to give myself plenty of time to make decisions, and to seek input from others. So for the time being, my plan is to stay put, go through the divorce and be careful, deliberate and patient.

For the past 10 years, I have missed something that I want very much. It is the most important life element to help me realize my life more fully. And that element is deep, committed, trusting, passionate, sharing, enduring love with a life partner. So a key piece of my life plan is to seek that - to work towards it, so to speak. Lessons from my two marriages, my wife's affair and my own affair years ago are still being learned, but I can share with you some things I am now certain about:
* I will be patient, careful, thorough and open-minded as I work to fulfill this life element.
* I will have nothing to do with breaking up committed relationships, e.g. marriage, as I seek a life partner.
* I will be honest in all things, but especially in seeking a partner.
* If and when I make a commitment, I will never lie or hide anything that could have an impact on that commitment. As soon as any potential problem is seen in the distance, it will be on the table in front of my partner, and topic #1 will be how to strengthen our commitment in light of the problem.

I hope this gives you a general idea, it's clear to me there is so much to learn, and the life plan will never be complete.

Oh yes, one other item that may be of some interest. A friend has suggested that I consider writing a letter to my first wife. The wife that I left 16 years ago when I entered the affair with my present wife. In the letter I would say that I now have a greater appreciation for her pain and suffering, and that I now have a greater understanding of how wrong my actions were, and of what I would do differently.

Writing this letter would be good for me, I'm certain of that, and I will do it. What's not certain is whether it would help or harm my former wife (see my first post). My friend also made the suggestion that I send it to my wife's psychiatrist with a covering letter authorizing the psych to pass it along or burn it, depending on whether it would be likely to help or harm. To answer a potential question, there is no possibility that I would reunite with my former wife. We have had no direct contact of any kind for 15 years.

I like the idea of sending it to her psych and letting him/her make the call. It might give her some closure. Or it might upset her - the psych may be able to tell which. If it's closure it could be very valuable.