My update
Well I failed :-(
On Friday (Day 1 when I posted - I'm in Australia so it posts as Thursday!) I ended up caving and contacting him about some outstanding stuff. Then Saturday he made a big effort and came to my show so we ended up communicating again. But I'm getting back on the horse. Sunday ended up being day 1 of NC. Today is day 2. He forwarded me a joke email this morning but I have deleted it, not responded, and blocked his address.
I'm going ok today. Sort of. It's still hard to see my email box empty - and I only now realise how little my phone gets used apart from him messaging. It's such a little drop of the heart every time I see my phone screen and there's no messages there. :-( I'm still thinking about him constantly, but it's not as bad as it was on Friday, I'm not sure why. But I miss the friendship. I no longer think we could be friends in, say, the next couple of years till I'm totally over him. But ironically the time I'll know I'm totally over him is when I don't want to be friends at all. So instead of thinking about all that I'm trying to just work on a day at a time. At some stage later it might be safe to try and evaluate all that stuff but I think that may be a year or two down the track.


Thanks Penny :-) It was nice to see your response so quickly and feel a little less alone. What is the different way those spaces are difficult now?
I will post to the coffee shop - thanks!

Lost Momma - thanks!

HOFS - yeah, I don't normally take that route so that's a plus. That said he lives near where I work and I still think about that. Just have to desensitise I guess.

Hypatia - thanks for stopping by!

Spidey - yes it is a seductive feeling, and I know it wouldn't last. It's just so nice, and so hard to let go of though. Funnily, even the things that would last reduce value in light of what's happened - for instance he's very romantic and still showers his wife with gifts on special occasions - goes to big effort, spares no expense, etc. Never having been out with anyone like - my husband's idea of romantic is actually remembering that there was a special occasion and wishing me - that it was mindblowing - plus obviously it lasts because his wife still gets that treatment. But then I try to think - well what is that treatment worth if he can be doing that for her and still seeing me? But it's that old trick of trying to argue down emotion with logical arguments - it only ever partially works :-(
I like the idea that we are all connected - and I believe it too - BUT.... I can't feel it. I wish I could. Sometimes I feel like there's this whole spiritual world and connection around but I am totally unable to connect to it. I don't know why, but I feel blocked in that. The normal sort of things that people talk about - thinking of someone and then they call, knowing who is calling when the phone rings - stuff like that - never happened to me. And I wish it did. I feel very disconnected from my world sometimes.
You're right about the valleys. I suspect trying to ignore a big valley was what got me into this mess in the first place, as things started with him at a time when I was deep in grief - and my way of avoiding that is usually distraction. I think I distracted myself with him. Now I need to just bite the bullet and feel the pain. :-( I've never been good with pain!

Starfish - gawd that hit home. My mum passed away a year and a week ago. OM stuff kicked up a few months later. Everything you just wrote is how I feel/felt about her. I wonder if that's the hole that OM filled for me. I have thought that the OM thing was related in that he provided a powerful distraction and some feel-good drugs to offset the pain. But I wonder if it was more. The daily interest in my life, the (seemingly, from OM) unconditional love. My goodness. That's food for thought indeed.
I didn't mean to suggest that I couldn't imagine my husband being my best friend. For years and years, he has been, and still is. I guess I have a few people I consider 'best' - and for a while OM took precedence over the other ones because of the constant and devoted attention to me and my life that anybody not infatuated cannot maintain. I plan to build more with my H - especially now that I'm not distracted by someone else - but the problem is that in our relationship/marriage, I have always been the one seeking connection more than H does, and so I always feel a little short changed. It's just human dynamics I guess, but I don't see it changing, as it's a pattern that has held over years. In that way OM was useful as my needs for interaction from my H were brought closer to the level of his interaction needs, so there was often less friction. Now that he's my 'one and only' again - I think the friction will increase. Oh well.

LovingBoundaries - I think you're right about the void, but I don't know how to solve it. Even how to start. :-( I hope you're right and that I'll pick it up somehow!
Thanks for reading my other thread. Yes the no what if's - tying up loose ends, was very important for me. I feel I've done that now, on most of the big issues. There were a couple of little tail-ends which was what knocked over NC on Friday, but I've got that out too now. I needed to do that. What did acheiving 'no what ifs' involve for you?
I like the idea that I will see the harm more clearly once I'm further into NC. That's what I'm putting my faith in actually - it doesn't feel right at the moment, but I just need to plug away at it and I'll reach a point where it does..... that's my hope.
Indirect contact - does that mean thinking about them as well? Gawd in that case I'm still in contact every 5 minutes! ;-) But I see what you mean. I could replace my communication with OM with obsession with him even without having contact. I will have to watch that, and you're right, some unconnected threads might help with that. I'm not sure I could do the room thing - thus far he's in my thoughts too often - I'd never even be able to enter the room! But maybe someday when the frequency has reduced... it's an interesting idea... maybe I could flip it around and allocate a room for THINKING about him in - an unpleasant room like the laundry where I've no choice but to do chores - that should be some incentive to avoid thinking about him and having to go in there!

Alice - yes you've put it exactly. It's the loss of a friend/confidant/rock/security that is so so difficult. I wonder if you're right about finding those in my H. Long term, I think you're right - OM or H would be much the same in those areas once the fizz of new love wore out. OM wouldn't be as attentive, his world wouldn't revolve around me. In fact I suspect he'd be even less communicating without the 'communications drugs' whizzing around than H is. So you're right in a way. H is already all those things to me, just to a lesser, but maybe more sustainable degree. I guess the other side is that H has so many of his own insecurity issues that maybe I don't feel as secure in him as I do in OM - who appears totally assured. But maybe that is just because I know H so much better - all his weaknesses and foibles. Whereas OM - I just don't know them yet. So the feeling of being looked after and cared for that he gives me is really an illusion based on insufficient information.
That's a good analogy with the diet. And I think you're right. When I did the month no contact, I sufferred for about a week and then I started to feel a little stronger (with frequent relapses, but still). Even though I'd still think of OM constantly throughout that month - it was with the feeling of something that was in the past, something pleasant to recall but something that had had it's time. Hopefully that will kick in again soon! Hopefully the thought of OM is like over-salted chips at some stage soon!

You're right. I need to have more control over my thoughts. At the moment they lead me - they are me - they control me. It's such a coincidence that you say that about the 30 days - it's not 30 but some friends told myself and H about this amazing course they went on - 10 day retreat in the blue mountains that is just pure meditation - no speaking or contact with the outside world allowed - no contact with eachother even if both go - it sounds completely unacheivable to me as they wake you up at 4am and meditate all day (i've tried meditating and at the 5 minute mark I just can't take anymore!) - plus it's all vegetarian! I HATE vegetables! But I really like the thought of it, so we are seriously considering going... maybe you mentioning that is a sign! ;-) I really hope I can pluck up the courage/determination to go on it.... and even more hope that it gives my mind a bit of a reset and connects me with my world a little bit more. The friends who went found it a huge experience. It would be sad if I go along and just hate it the whole time and don't get anything out of it - I fear that - but as they say nothing ventured nothing gained... so maybe I should...
What your friend said makes a lot of sense. We get so sucked in by the allure of how things are with an OM right now when it's all rosy.... even though logically we know that that's not the way things would be a few years down the track. It frustrates me how little logic is able to communicate with emotion - surely knowing that should be enough for both of us to pull our socks up hey! But NOOOOOO.... emotions just do their own little thing without any regard for what we tell them. Sometimes they're like a wayward little kids.... with logic being the worried mum trying to think of inventive ways to enforce obedience....! HA - well my emotional kid is GROUNDED.... as soon as I can figure out how...
I know what you mean about just trying to survive. Some days just don't feel like days to deal with big things. And losing a close friend and someone you love is a huge thing. And then it gets into this horrible cycle - where knowing you are in a horrible cycle weakens you further - and makes you less able to deal with big things - which digs you deeper in the cycle... etc. etc. Humans need to be built simpler! :-)
It's interesting what you say about promises to your OM. Humans have a need to be consistent. So I can see how ackward that makes you feel. I'll come talk to you about it on your thread. Haha I like that about the cleanse!

Thanks everybody for writing, it makes such a huge difference.

Was drafting this on my comp since it's so long, so Spidey I haven't read your latest post yet so there's nothing in here about that...

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mags, this may be something you need to work on understanding, rather than feeding the distraction beast. You actually most likely need LESS distraction, so you can begin focusing on what is going on INSIDE. And it is not necessarily true that the more responses you get the better. I think the Quality of your responses should be your guiding principle.

Spidey, I'm not sure if we're talking at cross purposes, but what I'm referring to is replacing the unhealthy patterns that have been established with OM with healthier ones. I'm referring to distraction from the tempatation to communicate with OM. I know it's a technique that's used for a lot of addictions - and I have been suggested it on here too - to plan ways, when the urge comes to do something that is destructive but has become a habit - to distract and do something else.
The other piece is I've always had a short attention span, and at slow points at work I get distracted easily. My reaction to this has been to email OM. Or read the paper and send him interesting snippets. Now I would like to replace it with something else. By posting here (rather than reading the newspaper or something) I get to use people's responses and comments to HELP me focus on and understand what is going on inside - rather than just have a random distraction from work like surfing the web.
And at the moment I honestly do think the more responses is better - I guess largely because I'm not sure there's anyone equipped to judge their quality, and in this phase when I'm feeling very alone, regardless of the response it makes me feel less alone, and I appreciate that people have taken the time to stop by. Sometimes things connect, sometimes they don't, sometimes what connects is totally random, sometimes I clarify things in my head when I disagree with the responses, but whatever it is it makes me feel like there are people around who care.

quote:

If you look on my Update thread, not many people actually post back to me.

Could this be because you are in a different journey/phase rather than because that's the formula to follow? You seem to have for the most part got over a lot of your loss, abandonment, etc..... whereas I'm in the thick of it. I hope to not always be - but that's where I am now. And some people think by diarizing - others think by interacting - my H thinks by just sitting and staring into space, he can't interact and think. You seem to be largely a diariser. I'm largely an interacter. Different strokes for different folks?
Yes I think letting defences down when getting feedback is the hardest bit. I'm used to being the thinker, the logical one, so some forms of feedback I can handle a lot more easily than others - those doubting my ability to think are hardest of all. Those are a real tightrope because on the one hand - I'm sure I'm wrong sometimes! On the other - so is everyone else - and when I hear someone assume that they are right and someone else is wrong as a fact - it rubs me up the wrong way. In an exchange with different opinions, I'm not sure anybody can claim a right or wrong - just put forward reasons and point out holes that bring everyone closer to making sense.

Interestingly I don't think all addictions go equally deep actually. But that's a whole philosophical discussion for another time!

As for quiet - that would be nice to get. That's one of my hopes for this meditation course. Because simply not communicating doesn't bring me quiet - my mind is always whizzing - which is why interaction is what I use to help me focus on what I need to. Otherwise, what takes over is just the everydayness of life - whatever is urgent or stressful or whatever. Currently - I don't get quiet in my mind. Hmm, that course is looking like more and more of a goer.

In terms of Alice's post, I didn't read anything there that suggested she was justifying the OM thing. She described what it felt like, but in the context of how difficult it is to get through but how it feels better when you do. I don't think at any stage she suggested much positive about it at all.

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AND, I also know after years of Weight Watchers and losing over 100 pounds over the past 16 years that if I continued to hang out with my friends that I used to overeat with, and they didn't change their habits with me, that they are who I would go to the moment I wanted to overeat.

See this doesn't apply to Alice. If she one day turned around and said - "look, I'm happy with the OM and I'm no longer willing to work on my marriage - and you know it's just SOOOOO wonderful being with SUCH a FANTASTIC man as my OM!" then there would be some argument there - but not now. She's trying - some days are good, some days are bad. And I would hate to think that being in a 'bad' phase means she's of no use - or worse still a bad influence - on someone. Or that it's only ok to post when you've got good news, not through the bad times as well. Even in her bad phases she keeps trying - and her resilience is inspiring. I've been in bad phases - and maybe will be again - and if at those times I got treated as if nothing I said mattered - well that would not be helpful. People had on occasion come close to "well you're in the fog therefore you can't talk" and I know that to be rubbish, but I held my tongue because I didn't want to cause bad feeling. But if it had got to the stage where they suggested I didn't post I'm not sure I'd have been able to hold it in. People in addictions still have valuable things to say - sometimes insights that people who have come out the other side have forgotten - I think generally the reader can judge what is valuable for themselves and discount the rest.
There are times on this board when people are so full of 'shoulds' without much regard for the 'hows' or acknowledgement of how difficult it is, that I've just gone underground. There is no point posting when everybody wants to tell you what to do but nobody is going through it with you. At those times, the only person I've been able to keep posting to is Alice. It's embarassing talking to people who are sorted out when your own efforts fall over. To extend the analogy - those aren't the times you need the skinny gym junkie giving you advice - those are the times you need the support of a person who is struggling through with you. Hiding away these people is more harm than help.

quote:

Perhaps it is not a coincidence that you two posting back and forth [edit] has gotten you both in and out of NC.

I'm sorry spidey but I think that's out of line. I could start my thesis on why but it would go for pages. Briefly, it's a pattern my mum had that caused us, as kids, to not confide in her. You admit a weakness - and then next time she wants to win a point in an argument it would be "well perhaps that's why XYZ doesn't like you" or whatever it was we'd last cried to her about. It's just a terrible way to go in a discussion spidey, you may not realise how terrible till someone uses it in a bad way on you. I need to describe more but I don't want to start a rant. Let me try your analogy - when you were overweight and had your friend where both of you were trying to lose it together - doing the fitness thing, the healthy food thing together - but you were in the tough stages where it was hard going and you hadn't lost it yet - had the odd relapse - etc..... it's like someone coming up to your friend and saying "well maybe you haven't lost weight yet because you keep hanging out with Spidey" - when in truth both you and your friend know what a support you've been to eachother. Or to give a really harsh example, it's like if someone knew you were having marital problems, and in another discussion about some perceived fault in you, they said "well perhaps it's no coincidence that your H did XYZ... ". You see what I mean? It's a slippery slope with horrible stuff at the end of it.
I'm not saying what you said was on that scale. I'm saying beware that pattern, it's a tempting weapon when you disagree with something, but it's a dangerous place to go. Without having seen the extremes it can go to you may not be aware of it - because of my mum I'm probably more aware of that pattern of comment. I'm hoping I've described this in such a way that you can see what I mean rather than just feeling criticised. I was thinking that I know how introspective you are and maybe I should have just not said this, and you'd realise it soon. But I'm not sure, so I'm saying it. I know you're trying to help. But comments like that aren't helpful to anybody, and maybe there's something deeper going on that prompted you to go there. Were you feeling under attack, or guilty, or uncomfortable in some way?

quote:

but we cannot control how others perceive what is going on around them

Is that always true? Are there cases where it could be used to justify something hurtful being done? Could saying "that's for them to deal with" be a way to justify stuff that we might otherwise feel guilty/responsible for?

Thank you so much for your support spidey, I do appreciate it - even when I disagree with things! I hope everything above came out right. Bad feeling makes me really unsettled and upset, especially in a place so amazingly supportive as this.

Can I ask you a question which I hope is not offensive.... what did Alice's post trigger in you? Which bit exactly made your heartbeat spike a bit? I can't help wondering if that's subconsciously what happened there. It may not be. You phrased your rebuke in terms of protecting others but.... there was something in there that rubbed you up the wrong way.... do you know what it was? Feel free to ignore that question if it's not something you feel ready/inclined to examine. I'm just asking because your response seemed uncharacteristic and I thought perhaps your introspective self might have some ideas to play with!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mags,

Good Morning Mags
How are things Down Under?

I am going to applaud you for admitting you fell off the horse.
that would have been so easy to simply not write here.
that took bravery
BRAVA Mags!

Secondly
Pat yourself on the back a few times for me for getting right back into NC.
Job well done!!!


Being a person in and around the ADDICTION of an affair is tough business, isn't it?
From the perspective of the betrayed spouse, I can tell you we can see the FOG and it's ugly truths as plain as day, even when we do not have all of the 100% correct answers as to what is really going on.
We may never have been the betraying spouse, but because the Betrayed Spouse is removed enough from the the AFFAIR ADDICTION, a step back as it were, we do have a pretty good idea as to the patterns and the toxic behaviors that are happening.

I think you know as well as I do that the very same brain chemicals that ENCOURAGE two people to start and exploration into a healthy relationship are the same that get people hooked- line-and-sinkered into an affair. That stage of a relationship is called INFATUATION, which is all too often confused with LOVE. And Infatuation is a very very FOGGY place.

Having said that,
I am very glad you have Alice here with you and for you. The two have you have been thru thick and thin together. A comrade is always a comfort during times of difficulty.
I will add my opinion to why i feel Alice could be of more help to you and others as well as to herself as she posts here in INFIDELITY.

Perhaps for the time being, Alice could preface her comments about her OM as FOG TALK.

When I personally go thru RANTY stages, I often preface the posts with "THIS IS A RANT",
When I am in an TRIGGERY place, I identify my posts as such
etc
these clarifications in my posts help me to identify what it is exactly I am posting and where I am coming from and helps other better understand where I am going thru. COMPASSION to all around you.

Hey Alice

I hope you are still reading this thread. You ARE a very important and valued member of this community.

hugs to you both and your families

Hypatia

Well, it seems I have become your focus now.

I will step off the thread for a while, and see how it goes.

Peace to you, sweetie.

quote:

Indirect contact - does that mean thinking about them as well?

Yep!

quote:

Gawd in that case I'm still in contact every 5 minutes!

Good for you! Five minutes is a good start....let's work on stretching that into six or seven minutes.

quote:

I'm not sure I could do the room thing - thus far he's in my thoughts too often - I'd never even be able to enter the room!

Sure you could enter....you just might not be able to stay if you couldn't redirect your thoughts. In the beginning, it probably would have been easier for me to have had a revolving door installed.

quote:

But maybe someday when the frequency has reduced... it's an interesting idea... maybe I could flip it around and allocate a room for THINKING about him in - an unpleasant room like the laundry where I've no choice but to do chores - that should be some incentive to avoid thinking about him and having to go in there!

That sounds similar to an alcoholic waiting until he's "cut down" and then alloting one room for drinking....and expecting to be "sober" in the rest of the house. I've never heard of that working....either for the alcoholic or for people eliminating Contact.

Let's flip it back the other way and consider making your laundry your safe room. The incentive would be having clean clothes, towels, etc, without having to take 5 hours to do one load. Ok, maybe that's just me it would have taken that long at first.

Take care today, mags.

quote:

I was thinking that I know how introspective you are and maybe I should have just not said this, and you'd realise it soon. But I'm not sure, so I'm saying it. I know you're trying to help. But comments like that aren't helpful to anybody, and maybe there's something deeper going on that prompted you to go there. Were you feeling under attack, or guilty, or uncomfortable in some way?

Hmmm, introspective......seems the "fog" is everywhere these days ~ including in my head.

I did not feel triggered in the traditional sense, like I used to. So, I must have ASSumed I was not triggered at all. But the way you have phrased what I said back to me, it seems I was attempting to take a small child to task.

Since I read your initial post, I have begun seeing X in a different light. As if the sun came out and shined on him ~ a side I didn't even know was there. And I keep looking at it, turning it over and over in my mind, and I think you (unfortunately) got whatever reaction came from that.

So, since I now know I am not fully clear on what I am doing or saying on this thread, I am still going to become more of an active reader than poster on this thread. But, I will be processing and posting on my own thread and you are more than welcome to stop in over there.

Oh, what good lessons for us all.......did you know, Hypatia, that the Universe will keep putting your lessons in front of you until you see them???

quote:

Oh, what good lessons for us all.......did you know, Hypatia, that the Universe will keep putting your lessons in front of you until you see them???

Dear Mags,
Thank you so much for your kind words. Its like you were in my head and were able to express exactly what I was thinking.

We are obviously posting here for a reason. Education, information and support etc.
I would hate to think anything I have or would say would hurt someone's chances of success.

I have been able to relate to many things you have said about both Om and H. And I know several other woman who in one way or another have struggled with the same issues but perhaps were not fortunate enough to find a forum such as this to help guide them through the FOG.

I think you made an excellent point by saying how your OM showers his W with gifts etc, but how great could he be if he is stepping out on her. Think about that?

Even though you broke NC, you managed to get yourself back on track. That's all you can do. And like Spidey said, set yourself up for success. Better choices, better habits, better thoughts, better actions. Don't they say it takes 30 days to create a new habit and get it to take?

I will be posting an update for you on my thread regarding my NC and what happend this past weekend.

Wishing you a happy and healthy Monday:-)

quote:

What is the different way those spaces are difficult now?

Well. Hum. My blunt and tactless is side is not listening so well as I'm trying to tell it to sit down and behave .....

It used to be when I would drive past 'those' places I would have that nauseas, heartbreaking feeling of losing a friend. A lover. Someone who cared. "The only one" who cared. The person I was, obviously, meant to be with if only we'd known it sooner (meaning: before I had 6 kids and he had five ).

I would sniffle and cry. And, almost joyously, dive into that deep, dark, place of poor me and my unrequited love that no one understood. I'd lick my wounds until they vibrated with pain through my entire body and soul.

I was, as I've said many times before, the OW from hell. I called his phone just to hear his voice. I sent little gifts "anonymously". I wrote an impassioned many page letter and left it in his car. On a hot day. In July. Covered in my perfume. I had no idea about no contact. I don't know the phrase was even coined yet in 1996. <sigh> So I know first hand the pain and the inner rotting that comes of returning again and again to grasp at something that was never mine to begin with. The rotting of integrity lost.

And that is what finally changed the feelings for me. After a year ... (A YEAR!) of not seeing him or hearing his voice -- but using every other form of contact --- I finally let go. And then I started to heal.

And the energy of those places began to change.

They still hurt. Terribly so. But it's a clean hurt now. The hurt of knowing ... truly Knowing ... the harm I brought to myself and others. This kind of hurt is about being real and rational and authentic .... and responsible. I feel it every time I'm in that city and near 'those' places. It reminds me, when I'm a bit over extended, why I do this work. It reminds me, when I get impatient with life with teenagers, of the amends I need to make. It reminds me of the promises I betrayed and man's life (my ex's) I so callously disregarded.

Yeah .... those places still hurt. I'm glad they do because they also remind me that nothing is worth the loss of my integrity and inner peace. I ain't never goin' back there.

Having an affair and living the losses was a terrible and avoidable event. AND it's helped me forge the steel in my own soul. I know what happens when I betray my integrity and my values and I do my best every day of my life to not do so again.

You could have avoided an affair, too. You didn't. Welcome to the club .... <sigh> AND you can now choose to use this experience of loss and pain to rediscover your integrity. Weep your losses .... and let those tears cool the fires of transformation as the steel in your soul is forged and made anew.

BB

P

Amen sister..

every word of it the G-d's honest truth for all of us who have been thru the fires of he[[ and managed to crawl out of it.

Loui

quote:

Amen sister..

every word of it the G-d's honest truth for all of us who have been thru the fires of he[[ and managed to crawl out of it.

and
AMEN to that as well

never judge a person until you have walked two moons in their moccasins

Hi Mags....

I know I dont really have much input for you to go on, but I did want you to know that I was out here in the world thinking of you today!

You have been on my mind and I wish you well!!!

Hi all
For some reason I was feeling quite bouyant this morning, but I'm feeling really down now. I don't know the causality. I think part of the bouyancy actually was from reading the board this morning, which I'd been apprehensive about. And knowing I'd made it to Day 3! And then I'm not sure what brought me down. Coming to work was the timing - but I'm not sure why it brought me down. Maybe because it's so grey outside, maybe because I'm finding it impossible to focus, maybe because I have so much to do that I'm not in the mood for, maybe because there's a property we should have bought but didn't and now it's off the market, or maybe it's because being at work is my catalyst for contact with (and therefore thinking of) OM. I don't know I just feel really out of it today, which sucks after such a good morning.

Spidey - you are a star. I hope to be as self aware and together as you some day! Yes you're right I was focusing on you - I'm not good with conflict that way - I have to prod and prod and prod and discuss and discuss and discuss until it's resolved. Which isn't always the best way to get resolution! Sometimes it's good - H is avoidant and we'd never resolve anything if I didn't prod. I'm also trying to improve in terms of accepting that there are some people and places that just aren't worth it. I used to write to a forum where there were some really destructive critical people and it drained me - but it took a lot of work on myself before I could walk away. I don't even go there now - I try and surround myself with positive people/places - like here. I'm still constantly amazed by people here. I'm learning to walk away from those situations more now - but I still find it hard to when it's somewhere I like and feel safe. So thanks for taking stuff I say so calmly, and for diffusing.
And thanks everybody else too for keeping me focused! I'll write more when I feel a little more up. :-(

LovingB - nooooo! Gawd if I were to focus on indirect contact right now - I'd never think of anything else! Given I think of him I think about every 5 minutes - I don't want to start thinking about what minute I'm up to for the other 4! :-) It'll start being like that thing "DONT think of pink elephants DONT think of pink elephants...."
Plus it's too depressing - Day 3 feels like an accomplishment - minute 4 doesn't really - especially on about the gazillionth time it's come around! Hehe - if I make the laundry the safe room I'll never have an incentive to stop thinking of him - I don't wanna go in there anyway! Maybe once I get to the point where a clear hour can go by without him in my head - then I'll start working on thought control. I certainly need to eventually. Sheesh - what if I go on that meditation course and all I do is think of him. He's always my thought for when I'm bored anyway. That would be TOTALLY counter productive!

Alice - hmm ok I'll try to focus on that gift thing more. It's so HARD though! Gawd - on our last day OM brought a red gift box in which he'd put a scattering of heart shaped chocolates, a mini bottle of very good champagne, and a cheese that is my most favourite in the world - I didn't even know you could get it here because where I had it was a tiny place in adelaide - other end of the country - I'd been raving to him about it - and he hunted it down and got it for me. I have to face comparing this with..... well, the only birthday that I can remember my H getting me a present that I didn't have to buy myself was when we were dating - I turned up at X o'clock at the station for him to pick me up - and was left there waiting for an hour because he arrived a little past X o'clock, realised it was my birthday, figured he was in trouble, and reckoned he could 'pop out' and do a quick shop before meeting me - he turned up with a cheap backpack he found. It's the thought that counts? What was clear was that on my birthday, he didn't even think of me till the very minute he was supposed to pick me up.
But you're right. What does that matter given that H is (presumably and hopefully) faithful to me and OM is not so to his wife. I guess if I had to choose then I'd rather what I have! But it's SO hard to not get carried away when one person treats you like you are something infinitely special and another treats you like an afterthought.
Yes they do say that about the 30 days to form a habit! In fact I'm really looking forward to the 30 day mark. I'm hoping for some big mental shifts by then. I hope I'm not disappointed.

Penny - that's so great to hear. I can't wait to reach that space - when my associations with those places are not around the loss of a friend. Gawd everything you say is spot on. That thought has honestly crossed my mind so many times - that I was somehow 'meant to be' with him if the timing was not so off.
What made you finally let go after the year? Any epiphany? Or just plain old worn out...
It's motivating to think that I'll someday be able to look at those places and be glad I finally got out, rather than feeling just such a heavy sense of loss. I can't wait - I wish I could speed it up! Patience has never been my strong point... oh well, back to one step at a time.

Hypatia, Louie, Lost - thanks for posting!

WARNING - BIG FAT POST OF FOG TALK HERE - READ AT YOUR OWN RISK and if you're a bit sensitive, better to not read this particular post at all. I'm not proud of what I did today.
I'm a bit wary of posting this here because it might upset people. But I also didn't want to start being only semi-honest about my progress here given how helpful everyone has been - it seemed like to do that without actually knowing if it was causing upset was to not give you the chance to decide for yourselves how much disclosure you were comfortable with. The plus side is that anyone who wonders how people can act so crazy and illogical can see into the mind of it in this post. The minus is that what I did upsets me, so it might upset someone who has been hurt by this behaviour even more. So please if this post upsets anyone just tell me straight away and I'll start pasting the foggier stuff back on reclamation and try to keep it to the less sensitive sections on here.


well, i sabotaged myself. i knew i shouldn't do it - and yet i did. my logical brain was yelling "YOU IDIOT!" and my emotional brain just took the steering wheel and didn't give a ****
as you know i was feeling down. and that's where my defences are weakest. on the way home, for some absurd reason, it felt like a really good idea to go see if his car was parked at the station. I don't know why - it was something to do with missing the feeling of knowing what he was doing at any given time - it's felt so wrong not to know what's happening in his life these days.
"this is contact", "you'll regret it", "what if he sees you and you communicate" - all this went through my head - but my hands just kept on driving. down the back route to the station past all our spots. that bit was not actually that bad - last time when i wrote in about those spots i had only loss, longing, self pity. this time i had mixed feelings - that stuff was there - but also a feeling of (maybe because of what Penny said - power of suggestion) "this is where i did bad stuff" "this was a sad chapter in my life". It felt good to be able to say that in the past tense - to feel I was coming out of it. So ok, I know I shouldn't have gone there, but I was cheered by the mixed feelings.
I should have gone straight home from there and I think it would not have been a stupid evening. But I didn't. I drove to the station - and there was his car. He only parks there less than 50% of the time, so I hadn't really psyched myself up to definitely seeing it - gave me a jolt when I did. I had the urge to park next to it, walk around it, struggle to detect some of his smell emanating from inside (stupid and gross I know) but I resisted. Or was too chicken. I drove to the next floor up where I could see it through the grill. And I just sat there. Like an idiot. I think I wanted him to come past. I told myself I didn't, but I must have, because I found myself calculating how long I could stay there before I had to leave for rehearsals. What the heck is that - are there two completely separate brains in here???
A train arrived. I wondered if he was on it. I reasoned that the chances were miniscule as they come every 10 minutes and I'd only been there about 2 minutes. I nevertheless knew I was going to wait for 5 minutes as that's how long it would take him to get to the carpark if he were on it.
I must have got my timings all wrong... because as I was thinking that - there he was. Striding across with that too-familiar walk. I almost died. I felt like I'd been caught stealing. I sunk down into my seat so the car would look empty - I have a very common car so it's not easily recognised. I was in luck. He didn't see me. But I didn't feel lucky. "why didn't he see me? doesn't he know my car? doesn't he look for me the way i look for him? aren't i on his mind?" I peeked my head up a bit to see if he could be looking - nope - he seemed to look straight in my direction but didn't pause for a second, so I know he didn't notice me. "but didn't he say he always notices my brand of car in case it's me? was he lying? did he care as much as he said he did?"
ARGH
anyway the whole thing was over in 10 seconds, he must have been in a hurry - he switched on the car and hooned off. and there was i left with my heart beating, crying, and with my logical brain saying to the stupid brain "well what the heck were you HOPING would happen hey???"

and the answer to that is - i was hoping he'd break NC. I have been, since it started. I check my phone. I diverted his mail to the trashcan - so i check the trashcan. I don't make contact myself, but I desperately keep hoping that he will, even though i didn't acknowledge it to myself. and today - i dreaded being seen - and at the same time hoped he'd see me. and at the same time am glad he didn't because i enjoyed the feeling of starting a healthy journey that i got when i was driving through those places.

im hoping what happened today will scare me enough so i dont ever do that again. and i am (logical brain i suppose) extremely glad he didn't see me. i may be all messed up in my head, but at least he doesn't know it. as far as he knows i'm 100% committed to no contact and therefore he will respect that. if i start giving off signals that i want him to break it - he probably will. so today i've stuffed myself up - but at least i haven't stuffed him up. gawd - can you imagine what it would be like if it was him ending it, not me! i'd be like the woman in fatal attraction!

by the time i got home i'd calmed down. i was able to go to a healthier place - i thought of his family waiting at home for him for dinner - i thought of the fact that this is earlier than he'd be home normally - because he'd have been seeing me. i was able to feel happy that where he was now was healthy - home early to be with his family, not like the destructive way we'd been leading the last few months. im glad i'm on a path to health. i'm glad he's on a path back to being the man he can be, not the man this experience dragged him down to. my emotional brain still can't quite say, though, that im not hurt or disappointed or something that he didn't see me. i can't explain it and i hate it.

anyway back on the horse. his distraction/shortsightedness/whatever saved me from breaking direct NC. I know this was indirect contact, but it's still a leap from communicating with him so I'm pleased that line didn't get crossed. at least i can cling to that.

i once used an analogy - i can't remember if it's mine or i nicked it - but it's so apt today. The logical brain - forget what it's called - cerebral cortex? trying to control the primitive brain underneath it - where all the pleasure and addiction pathways are, really is so much like a jockey riding a horse. He's little and can't match the power of the beast - so has to find ways to exert control despite that. And depending on how well or badly the horse is trained - he more often or less often can just take off and run wild. And all the while the jockey's going crazy trying to get things back in control - thats what today felt like. My logical brain was just yelling all the reasons it could think of - but that horse was just going to do what it wanted to do. And now the jockey is giving it one helluva scolding. And everybody is going to tell the jockey what the horse should have done - but he already knows. He just couldn't seem to stop it. I guess the truth in the analogy is that the addiction drives and stuff are in a way more primitive area of the brain that can be overpowering. The other truth is, I suppose, that practise trains the horse - my jockey just has to keep at it until my horse gets the hang of it.

I really feel like I'm losing my grip today. Like I'm some kind of stalker. How did I get so out of control.

Alright ladies ....

Stepping in here in my official role as a moderator.

According to the ToS for the SYMC private boards:

You may post anything you want regarding your own involvement in any of the private boards. You may not post about anyone else's.... including the fact that anyone else is a member of a private board. (They're called private for a reason...)

So. If you all would be so kind as to go back through your posts and remove references to other's involvement on a private board I would really really appreciate it. It would be so much simpler than for me to have to do it.

Thank you!

P

quote:

I really feel like I'm losing my grip today. Like I'm some kind of stalker. How did I get so out of control.

I don't think you're out of control.....rather I think you wanted a fix. It's a symptom of withdrawal....and it will pass.....if you let it.

It was helpful to me to re-evaluate after a lapse. How could I plug the leak that led to a lapse? Was I willing to do whatever was necessary to do that? If so, then why wasn't I doing it? If not, then who was I trying to fool.....myself or everyone else?

mags, a relapse isn't merely the end of a string of NC and then off we go to the start of the next string of NC....it's also a tool to identify and then do some of the tough work that needs to be done in order to recover.

Btw mags, I remember extending many a lapse by beating myself up about it (although I didn't realize that's what I was doing at the time). I'm not saying that's what you're doing now.....I'm just letting you know why I'm not saying anything about it in case it's coming across that I don't care about your pain cuz I do.

quote:

nooooo! Gawd if I were to focus on indirect contact right now - I'd never think of anything else!

I meant focus on what is necessary to do to eliminate Indirect Contact. So very sorry for the confusion....I'm glad you recognized that it would be a bad idea to focus on any kind of contact!

quote:

Day 3 feels like an accomplishment - minute 4 doesn't really -

Be careful about basing success on feelings, especially during withdrawal. If you take care of the minutes, whether it's minute 4 or 40 or 400, the hours and days will take care of themselves.

Any thoughts of what you want to do with/after this lapse in NC?

Hey Mags!!

Gee, you were so upset you posted it twice
(okay.. just trying to make you laugh)

Listen to what LovingBoundaries is telling you.. she knows as well as anyone about indirect and direct contact.

Also, identifying the trigger that caused you to ignore all those red flags you were waving in front of your face is a HUGE factor in figuring out what caused you to have the affair in the first place.

Addicts (and lets for one moment agree that in terms of OM and the affair, you are the addict, okay?)... they live on this merry go round. They feel good. Then they start to think about stuff... then they begin to feel crappy...then they crave the thing that made them feel good. Then they make that critical choice.. do I go for it or do I hold off. Then they choose to go for it...then they feel bad and beat themselves up afterwards for choosing to go for it.

That moment of disconnect between what you know you "want" to do and what you "should" do.. what is the right thing to do is EXACTLY the place to begin.

That is where the core hurt comes in.. in that moment of disconnect when you make that choice to do what you know is the wrong choice.

So I'd like you to think Mags.. in those moments when you were driving over there, hoping to see him, hoping he'd notice you.. then feeling the pain that he didn't, the pain that he might not have been thinking about you at all.

What were you feeling about YOURSELF??

Thats where you need to focus...

Loui