quote:

When mum was alive I could run off there for some nurturing. Now I only have here, and it's not like I even have my own space here.

hmmmm...I know what it's like to miss a parent. My dad passed away several years ago. Even if I did run to my mom for nurturing, I wouldn't get it. She doesn't nurture anyone over 6 I don't think.

I was thinking about what you said. In a short time you are going to be just what I am. The nurturer. I am really, really hoping that once this baby comes, it will put you in a better place Mags.

Please try and refrain from contacting the OM. How can you really give yourself, your marriage, your family a chance if you do...It will just complicate things even more.

I am concerned about this "my space" issue you have as well. I thought about that too. I looked around here. My room only. All the rooms here are mine and H's and G's. It's a home. I like being in all of them. They are comfortable. Made to make anyone who steps in them, comfortable. I can tell you right now. I had my own room for ten months. It was hell. So explain to me more of what you mean by that. I'm not sure I'm understanding. It's as if you yearn to escape from your H. If you do, then something is not right Mags.

Think back to how badly you missed him just a couple of weeks ago. Remember? So how come you want space now and things don't seem to be going well.

Is it just that with his procrastination he's getting on your very last nerve? If so, and believe me, I know that hiring stuff done is expensive and not always the way things can go...but try and let it go Mags. Just let it go for now. Concentrate on you and the baby and what makes you happy.

Houses and things can always be fixed. Relationships can't mend on their own. Your H had to go through a huge shock recently. Who is to say that he is really handling as well as you think he is. Sometimes I think it would be so great to be able to get in people's heads. We sort of can here. Since when we come here, we are revealing some of the worst circumstances and hurt any of us have ever been through. But your H...who's he talking to? Sleeping it away maybe? Running out to do things for others to keep it out of his head?

I think the two of you really need to sit down and seriously talk to each other

I dunno. The 'my space' thing is new to me too, I haven't really felt it before. And it definitely is about escape. It seems to be something to do with the fact that, when I was feeling resentful of H, or abandoned, or whatever, there used to be a few places I could go that were places of rest. By rest, I mean I felt comfortable to be myself and veg out there and not be social. One was my parents place. I could lounge around and watch tv - be around people but not really interact. Another was my friends place (the one who just moved interstate). Both of these places were 'low maintenance' - i.e. I could do it when I was just too tired to talk and be good company, but I could still be around people, so I didn't feel alone. And then feeling like I had somewhere to go and was not alone - but didn't need to expend energy being social - particularly on a friday night - made me feel less resentment towards H.

I guess I don't really know if having my own space here would solve it. I'm also not sure why IMing my friends doesn't solve it - my best friend and I do keep in very good contact via IM and skype, so I don't know why it doesn't cover the social need. What I do know is that I feel tense and stressed, in the house, if H is moody, or if I'm waiting for him to come home. And I was thinking maybe it's something to do with these spaces being our shared spaces, so they feel emptier when he's absent from them. I know in the old days, if I went to my parents place, even if I was still annoyed with him, it wouldn't weigh on me so much. I thought maybe it's because that's not 'his' space - a space where I expect him to be in. And if I had somewhere to go that wasn't our shared space, I would be able to cut myself off from those feelings. Soemthing about the detaching thing. I was thinking maybe if I had my own phsyical space I would be better able to separate my mental space. I don't even know why I get those feelings on Fri nights particularly - other nights are usually pretty ok. I'm alone now and it's fine.
Like I said, I don't really know if it would work. But I was thinking maybe it would - if there was a room or something that was just my place of peace - maybe it would help. But really I don't know what would work. I just feel like I have nowhere to 'run away to' when I'm feeling bad, except for places (i.e. home) that remind me how abandoned I'm feeling.

We do talk Sandy, there's nothing I say on her that he isn't aware of (except maybe the OM thoughts that still go through my head, because I don't think it's fair to keep putting that on him). I am worried that he has nobody else to talk to. He was wanting to talk to his best friend about it last night, but that friend never confides in him, so I think he finds it a bit one way, so he didn't. His other good friend who probably does confide in him more is a bigmouth so it'd be a bad idea. And apart from that, he really doesn't have close friends. His cousin was close, but he's the one who started being a jerk last week and really upset H. So boy am I glad he didn't tell him. I offerred to try and find a counsellor or talk to Penny (though our plummetting exchange rate just made that a bit less feasible option than it was), but he's never really been into talking to strangers about stuff. And I sent him this site but he's not the online posting type. So I do worry about him not having that outlet, but I'm not sure what I can do about it.

quote:

but he's never really been into talking to strangers about stuff.

I understand that as well. H is the same way. In fact, I told him he should post on here and he was like, right now, I just don't want to be reminded every single day of what I've done. Maybe someday, when it's not so painful, I will. That was good enough for me. I try to look at it from his perspective and I do understand.

It may well be that your H is the same way...just wanting to get on with it without being reminded. Guys seem to not open up as much as we do. Unless they come here when they find themselves in a horrible place. Be it WS or BS.

I just hope that things start getting better for you soon. I also wonder how much of this is pregnancy/hormone related as well. You are embarking on an unknown part of life here and you are doing it without your Mum here to guide you. Throw in the turmoil you were in with OM and telling your H (I was so very proud of you) along with this pregnancy (and believe me, it does mess with your head thanks to the hormone explosion you have) and then having the difficulty you are having physically right now. I think I'd want my own room too!!!

All I can send you from here is and

quote:

but I'm not sure what I can do about it.

Remove yourself from the equation now, so that he can begin figuring it out for his own grown-up self. As long as you fill the void, he won't do anything different.

The nature of us humans is that we only (usually) do the hard stuff when we are forced to.

I remember I wanted to comment a couple pages back about what you were posting about regarding you and your H......

Overall, my impression is that you are growing and learning about yourself, and therefore about your M.

When is that nugget due?

Call me crazy, but I think the shiny sink is -exactly- where you need to start. Look at all the ranting you did about it. I know you don't value it -- because your mom made the sink more important than nurturing you, eh? But yet, that was still the place where you went "home" when you needed comfort. It was annoying and frustrating and imperfect. And yet, that's where you could go.

So go talk to that sink. I want to hear what it has to say -- and I want to hear the conversation you have with your mom while you're shining it.

Oh. And one more important thing. "Housework done wrong still blesses your home."

Shine the sink WRONG. Do it backwards. Refuse to use bleach. Decide you will use only Windex -- or heck, only bleach! It doesn't really matter to me how you do it, and it doesn't really matter to FlyLady either. What matters is that you accomplished something.

And if you chose another area -- desk, table, whatever -- did you actually get it shiny? How'd it go?

And last thing. This one's tough. But I hear an awful lot of ranting about your husband in your e-mails. What I don't hear is a lot of the internal uncertainty and inadequacy and unlovable stuff you're dealing with. Are you blaming your husband so that you don't have to face that stuff?

and just to add to what J mentioned..

could it be the Heals stuff puts you to sleep because its an internal mechanism to shut down the hard stuff?

Its harder to deal with your own crapola than it is to blame your H's crapola... Even if he HAS a bunch of it and it may be true...Looking at one's own internal demons is much, much harder.

Loui

Hey Sandy. Yeah I THINK (not sure) for the most part he's happy to just get on with it. But times like last Friday I think he wanted to talk - and almost told his friend about it - but didn't (which I'm glad of, in this case). Times like that - when he actually wants to get it off his chest - I feel sad that he has no outlet.
Yeah maybe it is the hormones!

Spidey - yeah I guess it's his call whether/where to find his outlet. I do worry in case he doesn't find one, and there's fallout from that, but I guess I've done what I can in offerring the resources - the rest is up to him.
I do feel I'm learning a lot these days - building awareness etc. Still feeling a bit stuck with the nurturing/soothing stuff, but I guess that's partly because I haven't had time to put a lot of work into it. Just kind of skitting along doing surface stuff at the moment because life is so hectic.
Nugget is due 14th Jan - gack how am I going to survive the next 3 months! I'm already uncomfortable, even apart from the pelvis stuff. Have purchased a nifty little pillow though on the weekend that fits under my waiste and makes my sleeping back a little less sore. The conflicts of pregnancy are so irritating - I feel lightheaded - so I want to lie down - but I can't lie on my back or it gets difficult to breathe. I'm getting a bad back - and lying on my side still has my spine all twisted up - but once again lying on my back - no. I get weak, so I have to eat, so I eat and then there's no room in there to breath. Honestly! It's going to be SUCH a luxury to just LIE ON MY BACK and make my spine happy again! And have SPACE in my abdomen to breathe, eat... you know all the LUXURIES of life....!

JustJ - NOOOOOOO! I'm not talking to my sink! I think I will choose my desk. I've finally finished my tax return (woooo!) so I can have a go at it!
I think the ranting is more because when it happens I'm home alone in that funk, I need an outlet to vent in, so it's here. Also because I'm not quite sure how to approach some stuff so it's to ask for advice, but most of the text is just letting off steam really, plus just (kind of) communicating with people (even though you all won't read it till the next day!) because I'm lonely. I think you'll find there is a one-liner or so in each rant about my internal stuff, because I have been making an effort to notice that, but yeah most of the bulk is just clearing angry stuff out of my head. I'm not sure I agree that I've been blaming him a lot though. Ranting - yes - but I thought I'd been pretty good about trying to figure out how I can change MY reactions/feelings about it more so than solving him. But I do feel I'm stuck in a bit of a rut with the comforting/nurturing thing, because in those phases, I just don't seem to be able to do it. I am recognising the triggers, I'm watching my responses to them, I'm identifying some of the hurts - although this may not be coming across here because my stuff usually gets a one liner and the steam blowing gets a big chunky paragraph. But anyway, at that point I get stuck. I don't know how to soothe the hurts. I am pleased though that I'm much more aware of them, and what's going on inside me, and when. I've been sort of quietly noticing my internal states when they happen. The negative ones - and looking for positive ones, to try and figure out what stuff nurtures and comforts me. I haven't found much for that though. And I've sort of been playing with different reactions and what effect they have on me, on H, etc. After last weekend I DID manage to not go off at him and escalate it, but I DIDN'T manage to improve my mood and actually feel friendly to him the next day.

Hey Louie - no I don't think it's particularly that. Take a chronically tired person and relax them and do soothing things and they'll often fall asleep. I did make it to the end eventually - awake - but it just didn't really do much for me. Possibly I need to go into more depth and get Stosny's book or something, because what I did just didn't really click. I was more relaxed - definitely a little sleepy - but not much else. It didn't really talk to me. But perhaps if I read up a bit more, something will. It's hard finding the time to.

Ok, so now I need some advice on enforcing boundaries.
H 'forgot' to tell me he was going out to drinks tonight - despite me talking to him this afternoon, him asking when I was coming home, me telling him it would be 7pm, and then I assumed (actually I think I even asked, but I can't be sure of this) he'd be home by then too - or tell me if he had plans otherwise.
And then he was uncontactable till 8.30pm - when I finally got hold of him he was in the city - still an hour and a bit away from home - apparently had no thought of letting me know that he'd be home at 10pm instead of before 7. Apparently this is justifiable because he didn't know for sure if he'd be going (nevermind that AFTER he decided to go he still didn't tell me).

I've had repeated discussions with him about letting me know if he's going out instead of coming home. But he has the memory of a goldfish, so it doesn't seem to register. He always apologises - agrees that it's inconsiderate - acknowledges that he wouldn't like it if I did that to him - but nothing changes. I'm pretty annoyed about it, but doing a fairly good job of keeping calm at the moment. There's a little bit of core hurts stuff going on re feeling not valued, not considered, not loved etc - but it's not very extreme. It's more that I'm sick of saying the same thing over and over again and him still not responding.

So - is this a boundary? "I would like to be informed if you are going to be home more than 2 hours after your normal time"? Or is that not what's meant by a boundary. If it is - how does one enforce that? What is the result of breaking it? Or am I just missing the whole point.
I guess I haven't really been concentrating on boundary stuff because for the most part our conflicts are more about me getting triggerred and hurt, and not a particular behaviour that I find unnacceptable. But this one - when repeated with increasing regularity and without there being extenuating circumstances - I find unnacceptable, and I would like to enforce some boundaries around. But I just don't know how. Am I focusing too externally?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mags,

Ok so I skimmed the valuables/boundaries thread (yes it's on my to do list to go through it properly some time!).
And I think the time thing is a proper boundary. But what is a consequence?

Hey!
I just re-discovered/remembered I guess what you could call one of my old 'nurturers'. I can't count how many times as a teenager this song helped me get all the pain out and then comforted me.
I think I need to burn this onto CD and keep it by the player as an 'emergency pack'!

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=YFkHkNqKjN0

Just a thought here that you might want to ask your Dr about. Sleeping on your back is a big no no here with OB's. It causes stress on the baby. I feel for you. I had hip issues when I was carrying Gracie. I wasn't allowed to sleep on my back, but yet my hips absolutely killed me when I slept on either side. I got a body pillow that helped a bit and also a feather mattress thing that goes on the top of your regular mattress. Those things helped somewhat.

I think it's a fair boundary. Consequences? Good question. Really good question. Something to think about.

I don't have an answer, but I do have another question. What would be the natural outcome if you had a really wonderful evening at home while he wasn't there?

Oh, and if it's going to be your desk, then I really must suggest that you go shine it -now-. Follow FlyLady's instructions for shining a sink (but don't bleach your desk) and get it really, really clean. And don't forget your shoes.

I think I may be codependent, or dependent or somthing. I'm way too dependent on H. How can I tell? What do I do? I'm in a really bad emotional place right now.

Hi Mags

I've been reading CoDependent No More... and I can't remember who the author is. I'll check tonight and let you know. Someone on the board here could give you more insight. I am CoDe because I let my feelings rule and what other people do effect my well being. One thing I remember is that I think about everything too much... all the time ...what if this, what if that.. and all the what if's doesn't really matter. They never do. If I could just keep my focus on myself and what makes me happy and keeping friends around me and involved in what I enjoy then what others do wouldn't matter so much. As an example if my boyfriend doesn't ask me out Friday night I have plans already... good plans that I will enjoy and I won't call him because I'll be having too much fun at the movies with friends. Then later that night he will call and he will be interested in what I'm doing and why I haven't called and why I can have so much fun without him. He won't let the rest of the weekend go without seeing me... aaahhh But I only did that a few times and now he calls me on Wednesday to make sure of 'Our' plans kinda funny how that worked.

You crossed my mind this weekend. I was at Dillard purchasing hairbows and little white socks with ribbon bows for my granddaughter.

The author is Melodie Beattie.

Go pick up the book. It will give you a whole lot more insight about codependency. I saw me at more turns than I care to mention.

Loui

oh and mags....

Sorry your in a bad place right now. I've been struggling with that too and wondering what I could do to recover quicker. Using heels helps. Once I've recovered I wonder why I feelt so bad. I know though that when your there it feels like forever. I get that way when I'm alone. I hate being alone so when I find myself alone I've started going to the book store and ordering a high priced iced latte, getting comfy in a chair for a while with a magazine or book. Just having others around helps. Do you know what puts you there? Do you have a favorite something you enjoy doing or somewhere you enjoy going?

Hi Honey,

I haven't gone away and I always look at your thread everytime I log on - I'm still rooting for you!

I'm sorry that you are 'in a really bad emotional place right now' and although I haven't got anything that is of practical help (I am not anywhere near as well-read or informed as these other folk), I think that you are a very caring person. You are always one of the first to greet a new poster, and you offer support and wisdom. Your loving spirit will prevail for you - I KNOW it will be ok in time. You just have to hang in there.
Big virtual hug around the bump,
Jules

Thanks for writing guys. I was feeling so low this morning. Still feeling pretty disconnected from H.
Thanks TJ I might look that book up. I think part of the problem is that I used to deal with it as you do - i.e. organise stuff so that I wasn't dependent on H hanging out with me, see friends and make sure I was having fun, and then I cared less about whether he paid attention. And - as you said - the result is he paid more attention. But all my resources seem to have disappeared now - my 2nd best friend has moved interstate, my parents place is no longer somewhere I find it pleasant to be, I have no fun going to the various drinks and stuff that people occasionally have on because I can't drink and can't stand for long. I have some friends I can visit but I'm usually too tired as they live far away - plus everybody always already has plans for Fridays. And another friend of mine is just about to move interstate. All my distraction/fun/friends activities seem to have dissolved. And I feel all hard done by because I don't get to 'escape' from this whole pregnancy business, and he does. But at the same time I know it's not fair - or healthy - to ask him to give up the activities he has that help him recharge.
The irritating thing is - quite often being at home is exactly what I want. I want to be at home and rest and veg out and do all the things I need to do...so I'm where I want to be... I just don't want to be alone there.
I like your idea of going to the bookstore. Here they're all shut Fri evening, but there must be some alternative. Maybe the library is open. I feel self conscious in cafe's by myself. But there must be somewhere I can go where I still feel there's people around but can do my own thing. I need a haven.

Hey Jules - thanks! How are you going?

Oh mags..

What?? Barnes and Nobles hasn't crossed the big pond yet??

I'm laughing.. in about 6 months you are going to LONG for the time you were alone. heck.. my last 2 are leaving this coming year and I've got the champagne ready!!! (I'm exaggerating, but not much ). No empty nest syndrome for this girl!!

Your life is morphing into something else and it does take a little getting used to.

I remember when I had 3 all under the age of 5. I thought I'd lose my mind. (well I think I did actually ). And my exH worked late hrs and when he was home he was closeted in his office doing paperwork. I'd get so annoyed and tired. Just to have someone else answer the pleas of a crying child or the shouting of Mom!!! (I told my kids once that they weren't allowed to call me that for one whole day.. yeah. it lasted about an hr)

Once you have the baby your focus will shift dramatically. And its possible that your H's will too. (just remember to include him in the nurturing and taking care of the baby.. be supportive, even if how he does things is different). And whats more you will meet people with babies too. And it'll become a social thing as well as a baby friend thing. I have an number of people who have become long and good friends because of that happening.

I understand how you feel. Do things that are soothing to you when you're feeling this way. I used to love snuggling on the couch with a cup of tea and a good movie or book. Or I'd go to the store and pick up a treat for me to have later on. I'd paint or I'd take a drive.

Loui