Mags,

Our local hospital gives prenatal classes and birthing classes. It's a good place to meet pregnant people like youself. Is there classes offered like that "accross the pond" as Loui says?

No Louie, no Barnes and Noble here yet! We have borders which has the cafe inside and co, but the local one shuts at 7pm so no good for Fri nights...

I dunno - I sort of dread being 'alone with baby' even more, because I know being at home all day will make me feel even more isolated. I plan to look up all the local 'mum' activities and try and get involved, and hopefully I can even travel a bit further to do stuff and see friends if I've more time (ha!) on my hands.
I suppose it is a bit of a short term problem in that everything will change so much pretty soon. Maybe I just grin and bear it. And the baby may be attached to me now but it won't be soon - if I get p*ssed off enough some Friday night I'll go right down there to the pub where he is with his mates, hand him the bub and a couple of bottles and nappies, and go see a movie! Hehe.
Yep I'll have to keep in mind to be supportive when he does stuff differently. It's hard already with housework (does he really think a bowl on the drying rack right way up with a pool of water in it is going to dry?) so it'll probably be harder with kids! And he's great with kids at making them happy - not so good with consequences like not swinging them around till they spew, or not giving them chocolate before bed and making them hyper. I'll try and leave him with his consequences a few times till he learns rather than nag him. I'll have to be vigilant about that.
Yeah, I guess I'll be acquiring some baby friends at some stage, they do say that. Urgh - I hate having to make new friends but it's gonna have to happen.

Hi TJ - have been to a couple of prenatal classes - people didn't really socialise. Have also started doing 'prenatal aqua' and they are friendly enough but don't really seem to want to hang out or anything. The people at my birthing course on the weekend were pretty friendly - probably best option so far - but they'd come from WAY across town so not sure it shows much promise.
That said, I think at this stage of pregnancy people are still working and crazily busy. Maybe it'll become easier either in the last month or so, or when bub's out, and people are full time baby-caring. Apparently they put you in a 'mothers group' after bub's out and some people find that really helpful. And I think there are some 'mums and bubs' walking groups and stuff like that (ergh! exercise!) so I'll have to try and put myself out there. The problem is I'm terrible with unfamiliar crowds. H loves talking to strangers and new people - I hate it. I'm really antisocial that way - I just like to hang out with people I already know well and am super comfortable around where you can skip the pleasantries and smalltalk. Ah well, I guess everything has to start somewhere, I'll have to start making the effort and hope I meet some people I 'click' with early on.

Funny Girly... I can just picture you at the pub handing 'bub and nappies' to H... funny. I'm from Ga and we say baby and diapers... I love 'bub and nappies' I can't wait next time I see grandbaby I'm going to ask for the bub and some nappies.... I love it. I wish I could hear the accent too...

Making new friends was so hard for me. When H left if was just 17yr old d and myself. She wasn't really that nice either you know a cranky teenager and I didn't have any friends outside of our marriage. We had a few friends together but they kinda went away too. So I read books about how to mingle and I found a web site that helps with meeting men and dating but it helped me with just meeting people. I was scared of people... I worked hard at making new friends because I hate being alone so much.. I just hate it. Now I have a list of friends.. men friends, kid friends, older people friends and women my age. I really wanted them. It takes work. For some people it's easy but it wasn't for me. If I was in Australia we would go hairbow baby clothes shopping.... woohooo... and to see the movie Australia with Nicole Kidman. It comes out Nov 26th.
hey have a great weekend

oh and mags,
your really a sweet person always helpful and nice to everyone. You always have lots to say and I enjoy reading what you write so much because your so expressive. while i was young my mom didn't encourage me to have friends for some reason. not sure why. she always said i was being nosey when i asked people questions. Now I realize that was my problem. Showing interest in people is really being nice... Asking questions shows concern and you truely are interested in others. To make new friends I find a common interest we both have then ask questions or make comments and go from there. Then remember things about people and I sometimes have to write that down... then later when I see them I ask them about something we discussed. Now I'm trying to make friends with my bf ball team moms.... remembering their names is soooo hard.. but I'll keep trying and they can tell I'm interested. It's fun learning about people and how they live what they like to do or where they like to go... or cook or anything. In a 'mums' group you could learn all kinds of things like how they are feeling, what's been hurting and what they do about it. what they eat and what they do to exercise. Exercise there is the way to go.... an exercise group! Don't really think about being friends just think of it as learning new stuff about people and what they like to do.
Got to run. Talk soon.

Thanks TJ! What a nice thing to say. You'd be amazed how grumpy I am in real life
That's interesting about your mum. Mine was kind of the same. In her case she seemed to be a little jealous if I had a social life - if i went out once a week she'd tell our family how I was "always" going out, "gallivanting around". I always thought it was weird given she was a tremendous socialite in her younger days and I've always been comparatively quiet - I never thought to wonder what longer term impacts it might have had on me. Then again I think I was introverted way before that.

I guess part of the problem is... I'm not really very interested in other people. I'm pretty self absorbed. I don't remember birthdays, don't notice if people put on/lose weight, don't remember what they do or what they like, etc. I probably remember their opinions, philosophies, the way they think, their humour, stuff like that, if we ever get to go that deep. Maybe it's just that that's what I'm more interested in - hopefully it's that rather than just self absorption! But because of that I don't cope well with smalltalk - I'm just not really interested. And sadly, because of that, I'm often much more comfortable with strangers at occasions where there is alcohol involved, because everyone is familiar faster and you can move straight to offbeat topics and random humour etc.

Then again maybe it's more to do with my inhibitions rather than other people - I'm much happier going up to people and asking left field questions that actually interest me when I've had a couple of drinks. Whereas H does that stuff totally sober, and I get totally embarassed by it. So maybe it is about learning to un-inhibit myself somehow so that I actually CAN go to strangers and dig down to something I'm interested in rather than sticking to pleasantries - even if a few people find it a bit nutty. I dunno.

I just find talking to people I'm not at home with yet so tiring!

Sandy, JustJ - realised there were a couple of posts of yours I didn't respond to.

Sandy - yeah no back sleeping here too - it's so hard! I need to start doing some back exercises every day I think. It's on my list!

JustJ - I still have no idea about a consequence for that one.
By natural outcome, do you mean what would a wonderful evening look like? Or what would be the outcome for me and him? To the former - I don't know, that's the problem. I don't enjoy being home Fri night and the mental state it puts me in prevents me from having a wonderful evening. I don't know how to get out of that funk and relax. And I can't think of anything I enjoy that distracts me that is still open to me when I'm tired and at home.
To the latter - well obviously we'd both be happy with that. I just don't know how to do it!

My SHOES??? Oh I didn't get that far. I've decided to give up flylady for a while - I have written out a list of stuff I want to do every day and I've never made it through them all yet. And shining anything comes out below any of those, so maybe if I get to the point where I can do them, I'll add that in.
At the moment I'm trying to do my hypnobirthing meditation every morning for half an hour, my normal 5 minute meditation, my RN health monitoring (like a minute), half an hour of pilates for my back (yep - this hasn't happened one SINGLE morning yet!), 15 minutes of talking/bonding with my unborn bub, singing her to sleep (I'm hoping this will give her a familiar tune that I can utilise to calm her/put her to sleep later on), half an hour of reading about the birthing stuff... yikes. Like I said I've never done it all yet - BUT the more ticks I see on my sheet for the day (yep I printed out a sheet to track it!) the happier I am. And because a lot of this is calming/recharging stuff rather than dashing around stuff, I have been feeling a little more grounded for the 4-5 days I've been working at it. It's the stuff I always put off in favour of the 'rushing around' stuff, and then berate myself about, so I want to try up-prioritising it since it all kind of has a finite timeframe. My desk/sink/house can wait!

AAAAAAGH why are H and I FIGHTING so much lately!!!!
Today was really bad. Very very bad.

great big hugs to you and yours Mags
{{{{{{{{{******Mags and fam*********}}}}}}}}}}

may you be blessed with peace and love
H

Mags..

may I suggest that as you get closer to having this baby.. the underlying tension in your household might be ramping up? Its not uncommon... you are both preparing for a HUGE change. You're still getting over a shock to the marriage.. and you are physically changing. He is probably mentally freaking..

There is stress in your home and right now.. no offense hunny.. your hormones are raging. I remember with all three pregnancies.. oh my... I put a hole in the wall I got so mad .. I threw a shoe at it. Another time I kicked it.. (my oldest was like 3 and she said to exH later.. what is WRONG with mommy!!!)

I'm not sayiing its all your fault.. but I will say that your hormones wreak havoc with your emotions and feelings.

As for friday nights.. hmmm
are there any mom's nights out? or baby care classes? how about book clubs? something that is a group thing with other women? Maybe other women who are pregnant just like you?

Loui

quote:

do my hypnobirthing meditation every morning for half an hour, my normal 5 minute meditation, my RN health monitoring (like a minute), half an hour of pilates for my back (yep - this hasn't happened one SINGLE morning yet!), 15 minutes of talking/bonding with my unborn bub, singing her to sleep (I'm hoping this will give her a familiar tune that I can utilise to calm her/put her to sleep later on), half an hour of reading about the birthing stuff...

Good grief, girl, you're drowning in meditation and reading! How about one of these each morning, rather than a zillion of them? Because really, you do not have to do all of it. You don't even have to do any of it, and things will still turn out all right. Really. I promise.

Thanks Hyp!
Yeah I think it is a lot of the impending stress Louie. I'm tired as anything because still working full time but I've started waking at 4am for no reason so I'm seriously sleep deprived. Ditto H because he's stressed out at work so he's been going in early and not having any time for himself. And we're both feeling the pressure of surviving on one income the way the economy is looking at the moment. His work is unreasonably demanding - they try to push people as far as people let them - and H is an 'amiable' and has trouble saying no - normally I just push him from the other direction (!) till he has to set some limits with them - but that's not such a safe thing to do in a bad economy. So last night's fight was about money - which we rarely fight about. The problem is the trade off for saving money is usually time, and we're so short of that. But it really bugs me that for some reason he is seen as the wallet for his parents - he had no boundaries with them for a really long time while he was single and the residual effects are still there. Both his sisters are living in mansions in prestigious suburbs close to the city - we live in a fibro cottage an hour out from town and he has to commute every day - and yet it's our money that is at their disposal.
Which is all a bit of an over-reaction really - his parents are usually pretty good - and the sisters do contribute - so I think it was just residual stress about the whole one (undependable) income thing. I try to budget tightly and save the small amounts of money because they add up - so when a couple of hundred disappears without us having any say in it it really needles me. But really I just wanted to vent about it because I think I do have a right to feel annoyed about it even if there's nothing worth doing to fix it - whereas he's always either fix it or don't have feelings about it, so the usual response is to deny my right to have any feelings on the issue. So anyway it all blew up very very big and he threw a huge tantrum so I did too. WAY out of proportion, everything just escalated.
Anyway we're ok now. It's just so hard to live this way. I was feeling so good and grounded and optimistic the last few days.

JustJ - yeah like I said - I haven't yet ticked all the boxes in one day, but the more I tick the more satisfying! Some of it I do kind of have to do if I want it to work - the hypno relaxation stuff will take a lot of practise - at the moment I have trouble relaxing just normally, let alone when I'm in pain/discomfort! The other stuff - like the baby reading - just makes me feel like I'm gaining some kind of handle on my life and feel a bit more prepared for what's coming, less overwhelmed. And other stuff is unfortunate practicalities - my back is killing me since I stopped exercising, so I need to find a fix for it to avoid significant discomfort. And unfortunately those 3 are the big time items! The rest would kind of fit into half an hour. I hate how all those half hours add up though!

You know.... maybe your sisters-in-law are in mansions exactly because of their better boundaries?

quote:

I think I do have a right to feel annoyed about it even if there's nothing worth doing to fix it

Absolutely you have a right to feel annoyed! But.... why's that give you the right to take it out on him? (Yes, I know, because it's his fault that you feel that way. Think it through, though, and you'll see that you could be as happy-go-lucky as a sparrow and that stuff wouldn't bother you a bit, so it's still -you- that gets to deal with the feeling bad part.)

Oh, and yes, I am so glad you're figuring out stuff that helps you feel a bit more in control! Now.... tell me again about a morning routine that takes an hour and includes these things:

- Getting dressed all the way to your shoes
- Eating and drinking something that's good for you
- Doing one basic (very basic!) household chore

You can keep the exercise and the reading and the relaxation, if you want. I just want to see the basic survival skills in there too. They're -very- important after a baby comes!

quote:

maybe your sisters-in-law are in mansions exactly because of their better boundaries?

Well that's my point! That's why I get so frustrated at him.
Then again it's probably more to do with their gazillion dollar earning husbands...

quote:

But.... why's that give you the right to take it out on him?

But that's the thing. I wasn't. I was grumbling about it but I wasn't blaming him, going off at him, accusing him, shouting, asking him to fix it - nothing - I basically just said "so basically we're paying for a coffee table we don't want and had no say in buying", and it was probably evident that I wasn't happy about it, and it just escalated from there. I don't really consider that sort of discussion to be taking it out on him. Probably a futile conversation, yes, given that there's nothing I could think of to do about it, so it was more about communicating my helpless feeling on it. But taking it out on him - no I don't think that was. I think I should be able to express how I felt about the issue.
That said I guess I should know that if it's about his family, he WILL construe it as an attack, however mildly I put it. It's such a sensitive issue - family and money. We used to have big fights a few years ago about his mum because she drives me mad some days and if I even mentioned how I felt he'd blow up in defense of her and make me feel totally unreasonable, ungrateful and alone. It wasn't until one of his sisters complained to me about the EXACT same habit of hers that I realised I even had the right to find it annoying - he'd managed to invalidate my feelings and put me on a guilt trip about them so repeatedly that I felt guilty for even having them. Then when I discussed it further with him it turns out it drives him mad too, but he thought that if he acknowledged it to me it would make it real somehow and then spoil my relationship with her. Whereas it's the other way - if I can get annoyed and let off the steam we're fine - back when I was getting annoyed and then being made to feel like I was crazy I just didn't want to be around her. But then this is the way his family operates - him and his mum anyway. They just 'shut down' to outsiders - flat denial that there's a problem. When he had his EA thing I told his parents about it - and his mum flatly denied that it happened. She wasn't even there, I had proof, her daughters and relatives could all vouch for it - but hey why let facts get in the way of loyalty. It didn't happen. If you deny it, it no longer exists. Ditto with the baby stuff - I'm not allowed to express any fears or anxiety about anything because then she will flatly deny the possibility of there being anything stressful or painful about having a baby. Deny it and it doesn't exist.
Anyway that's a big diversion. At least now, if I'm careful about phrasing, I can vent to him about how annoyed I get at her without him denying it or trying to fix it (much). But I guess adding money into the mix heightens the level of sensitivity, so it sent him back into an old pattern of deny- invalidatefeelings-counterattack.

Sigh - shoes? Now you're teasing - I can barely reach them!
Hmmm... why do I have to incorporate this into a routine anyway though? It happens inevitably...
I have chocolate milk for breakfast... again inevitably
I guess you could say that stuff is already part of my morning routine - it's adding to those necessaries that's hard.
And a chore...why? It's not my priority right now. Again, it tends to happen - and it happens more so when I'm in that grounded place - BUT... it's not something I'd be willing to prioritise over that other stuff. Because I'm learning with this time shortage that prioritising is going to become the big issue - I can't do everything - and with chores - well when they're urgent enough they do always get done. We had guests at short notice on the weekend - I've NEVER seen the house go from war zone to tidy that fast - half an hour! It wasn't the most thorough job (lotta stuff just stashed in the guest room!) but it was very time efficient. I don't NEED my house to be tidy when there aren't visitors over - it'd be nice sure and if I had time I'd do that AND all the other stuff that's higher on the priority list - but as it is I've got to prioritise stuff... and a chore daily is not high on the list...

Interesting revelation on the phones yesterday.
Spoke to an amazing guy who had been substance addicted his whole life - to quite a number of substances - and had turned it around in the last couple of years. He said that it's not like the substance abuse creates the problem - the problem (in his case depression) is there, substances help you run away from it or 'treat' it but then they add their own problems, and they make everything complicated because people can't even identify the original problem because it gets such a tangle.
Now he'd kicked all his addictions he was sitting there having to face real life, and all the problems in it. He talked about his escape fantasies of just running away from all the problems, but he couldn't carry them out because of family commitments. He felt suicidal sometimes.

I guess I always knew, in theory, but till now had not fully 'seen' how much it's all part of the same thing. Life problems that we don't have the mental equipment to cope with - all treated by forms of escape. Addiction (substances, emotions), suicide, escape fantasies. It's all part of that urge to run away when you feel overwhelmed and don't know what else to do.
And it's exactly what I do. I get suicidal. I used an addiction. And I plan my 'escape'. It feels like problem solving, even! "How do I ensure I'm never in this situation again". And now that I'm fighting the addiction the escape fantasising is much more prominent. Wanting my space, wanting to leave the relationship - just wanting to go and run away and disappear and never see anybody I know ever again. And then feeling trapped because, due to the bub, even that avenue is gone to me.

How on earth do normal people DEAL with this stuff!!!

Normal??
You're asking US that question?

I think pretty much everyone gets those feelings. I think its the degree to which one pays attention to them that is the difference.

Some might do exactly what you've mentioned.. planned it down to the enth degree. Some then act on it.. some don't. Some probably think it and then stuff it down and cover it up. Some might think of it and then are able to look at the positive of what they do have and say.. okay this sucks.. but this doesn't. And go from there.

I had a friend who passed away a couple of years ago. He was like the person you describe. It took him 30 yrs to finally kick his addictions. He became a responsible human being and gave back to the community that helped him recover. He had a better relationship with his kids, wife and family. For 3 yrs. Then he found out he had cancer. And 3 yrs later he was dead. The thing of it was.. that recovery.. and the way he dealt with it.. the way he saw life now as apposed to then.. made the last years of his life an amazing thing to behold.

Some mutual friends we have (the ones who were still addicts) couldn't understand how he just didn't stay high all the time and run.. the ones who weren't supported and celebrated how he was living his life till the end.

I miss him alot sometimes.

Loui

Why chores?

In Zen Buddhism, enlightenment comes when sitting still doing nothing. Or when doing chores. Or when walking.

In Judaism, holiness is found in the smallest things, as well. Which is good, because in (orthodox) Judaism, there are many, many rules.

Try it for a month. At the end, if you can tell me there is no peace in that routine, then drop it. But... try it.

quote:

He had a better relationship with his kids, wife and family. For 3 yrs. Then he found out he had cancer.

Argh! That is so unfair!

Chores.... ha. Guess they weren't talking about the way I do mine... rushed... grumpy... impatient...! I've heard about the 'mindfulness' way of doing it and slowing down - but there's never time!

I will try it - but I think not in the next 2 months. There's too much of a deadline the next 2 months - too much stuff to sort out before bub comes - just getting through all the essentials by 'D Day' is going to be challenge enough. And I really want to give this hypnobirthing/relaxation thing a red hot go so that I can't wonder if it just didn't work because I didn't try it hard enough. I've spent my life dreading labour so if there's a way to make it better then I want to have tried it. If it's all bollocks I'll just know not to bother next time.
Plus in 2 months time there will be a lot more chores to do...

He's started up with the damned motorbike stuff again.

I don't know how to deal with this! I seem to be put in the position of either letting him do something that endangers his life and means that the bub and I could lose him, or else be blamed for him being miserable for the rest of his life.

"What's the point of being alive if you don't get to actually live?" he asks.
If having a family and kids and all the rest is no better than being dead - well I sure wish he'd mentioned that before I got pregnant - or married even. Because I wouldn't have done EITHER if I'd known that's how little he values it.

I think this is an incredibly unfair position for him to put me in, and I have absolutely no idea how to deal with it!

Well maybe you and him should try meeting in the middle.

Okay..

So he wants a bike. Can you ask him if you can do this as a joint thing?..and that as such you have some input to determine what kind of bike? (that way you have some say about the motor power, style, etc).

Then.. can you both have a say in how often he rides it? Say like 2x's a week.

And then you both have a say about safety. Agree to what head gear, speeds, etc.

Mags.. sometimes you have to let go a little bit. Yes, its more dangerous than a car. But its not as dangerous as skydiving... and many times if its done as a joint thing.. rather than in a standoff.. the things you ask for won't seem so outrageous.

Loui

quote:

Chores.... ha. Guess they weren't talking about the way I do mine... rushed... grumpy... impatient...! I've heard about the 'mindfulness' way of doing it and slowing down - but there's never time!

Mindful is NOT the same as SLOW. Put on your favorite dancy toonz and dance through your chores. That's mindful.

quote:

I will try it - but I think not in the next 2 months. There's too much of a deadline the next 2 months - too much stuff to sort out before bub comes - just getting through all the essentials by 'D Day' is going to be challenge enough. And I really want to give this hypnobirthing/relaxation thing a red hot go so that I can't wonder if it just didn't work because I didn't try it hard enough. I've spent my life dreading labour so if there's a way to make it better then I want to have tried it. If it's all bollocks I'll just know not to bother next time.

"I don't have time" is the catch-phrase of the perfectionist, you know.