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Started off with mother in law doing her usual immature rubbish but escalated because he never stands by me when she does. He always tells everybody what they want to hear, never defends me, so I end up hung out to dry and looking like the crazy person because when I say something about having troubles with K's colic or sleep or anything she just minimises it "no she's fine, she only cries for an hour" (yeah one friggin hour lasting from 7pm to 5am) and he doesn't back me up. So I seem like the one whose always complaining about baby and she swans in (having been interstate for most of her first three months, having stayed the night ONCE during that time) and makes comments like that crap. And H just goes along with it.

Ok, you say you fought over this. What do you say to him about it, and what is his reply?

I've dealt with this myself, and I almost let it drive me to drink...

I noticed you were on my International Marriage Disaster thread, and this is the same issue that is causing major issues in their marriage. I have my theory, but I think I'll wait to give it...and it may not apply to your situation.

LGO - that's a good thought. Might have to look into that some time.

JustJ - hmmm... so far I like the coffee idea...
And yeah. Being alone IS worse. Although when I think of it that way - better not to be alone because I need the practical help - it makes the marriage seem farcical anyway. It sounds like staying with somebody to use them. I guess not exactly, because my presence has some benefits to him too, but you see what I mean. But I guess that's just life.
I dunno, with his mum I really need to work on letting stuff wash over me without needing to resolve it, change it, or respond to it. She is so full of crap sometimes but has NO ability to listen (seriously you would be amazed if you met this woman at how she can talk... my psychiatrist uncle thinks she's nuts... my psychiatrist cousin is kinder and thinks it's just ADHD). On the other hand she means really well, is very nice to me and makes a huge effort to get close to me. Which unfortunately, in her mind, means talking at me more, treating me more like a baby, and listening even less. To which I respond by talking less (what's the point?) and pulling back more to avoid being suffocated. It's a great dynamic.
(Sigh) I do need to work on the values exercise. At some stage it seemed so big that I stopped... I'll get on again!

Antigone - yeah it could be a similar issue. He is Indian, although several generations out, and there are some relics of that in the mindset of his family and himself.
Basically I said to him pretty much what I wrote, and how alone it makes me feel when he does that. And also ranted about why the heck his mum has to do that.
His reply is that yes, she has a bit of a competitive streak that his sisters have had to deal with, that manifests in her pretending to know the grandkids better than she does, and also subtly undermining the parents parenting skills. So he has a better depth understanding of the issues really than I do. BUT... given that he can't change her, he doesn't see any reason to ever say anything when she does it. Add to that that she talks so much (SERIOUSLY abnormally so - she will walk around the house with a constant monologue) that he's learned to tune it out, so he doesn't even hear what she says 90% of the time.
So... although I understand his point about not being able to change her, I think there is still a purpose to saying something. I'm not sure - I'm fuzzy on this. But I don't think it's right that just because she can't be changed, I always have to be minimised in public and private with nobody to back me up. And yes, I do respond on my own behalf, it would just be nice to not be so alone on it.
The other thing is that he is, as one personality test he once did hit right on the head, an 'amiable'. He never stands up to anybody, never confronts anybody, never defends anybody. So I don't think the fact that he can't change her is the sole reason behind his lack of support.

Ah well. I'm still pretty down, but better than I was over the weekend. At this stage the thing that really bugs me is that I can't confide in him. That trait of using what you reveal when you are vulnerable to score points later in an argument, is the ultimate intimacy killer. I've tried explaining this to him, but he still doesn't see the problem really. He maintains that he wasn't point scoring, and that it was relevant. I don't quite know how to let him know what he did. But it always happens - I'll reveal something I'm insecure about, and next time we fight that will be cited as my 'issue', however unrelated the circumstance. He always thinks it's relevant, but really it's just the most recent issue in his head so he pattern matches. I don't know how to fix it other than withdraw myself emotionally. And that's a sad thing to have to do.

I feel very separate from him at the moment. Maybe this is good. I'm more independent emotionally. But sad.

I can tell you how I've handled the situation. My fiance is Indian - Rajput - and lived in India until Sept. 2007...so if he's workable...

I must admit, up front, that I addressed this with him before we ever became serious. I put this forward as a very firm boundary early on, that a relationship is between two parties (I'm not poly), and there is no room for his family - or mine. I had it a bit easier, because I come from a fundamentalist Christian family with more than a little racism and other forms of bigotry. My father would like nothing better than to convert his heathen soul, and I shut that down immediately and my fiance has never had to deal with it. In other words, because my family was just as likely to do this to him as his was to do this to me, we had an even ground situation.

I also I put it to him that such behavior isn't just disrespectful of me...his family would be disrespecting HIM as well, and his decision to be with me.

My final point on this issue was that I would respect his family and friends, and I would respect the cultural differences within reason. The within reason points to the fact that respect goes BOTH ways, and I should be tendered the same level of respect in return.

We haven't had any issues with this that I can recall.

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although I understand his point about not being able to change her, I think there is still a purpose to saying something. I'm not sure

Of course there is a point to saying something. If he doesn't say or do anything, this behavior not only remains - it tends to get worse. People tend to edge further and further over boundaries when they aren't stopped, especially if they consistently get away with it. He doesn't have to be disrespectful. "Mom, I really don't feel that comments like that show respect to my wife. I'd really appreciate it if you would refrain from making them."

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But I don't think it's right that just because she can't be changed, I always have to be minimised in public and private with nobody to back me up.

I completely understand that he needs to support you in this. If he doesn't say something, she will have the impression that the problem is just yours (which right now it sounds like it is) and dismiss it. She won't even take it seriously until he supports you.

I know you've said that you say some things for yourself, but I would like just a minute to focus on your need to have someone back you up.

You see, for me, I know it is tactically necessary. For me, I have boundaries that he deals with his family and I with mine. I also know that I would not be ok with him sitting idly and letting me be disrespected - particularly constantly. However, from a viewpoint of internal validation, I don't need anyone's back up. I can stand firmly on my own without calling upon a call to popularity - argumentum ad poplum - to bring strength to my position. Can you say the same? How much do you need him to back you up because it gives external validation and reinforces your self-confidence?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: *Antigone Rising*,

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So... although I understand his point about not being able to change her, I think there is still a purpose to saying something. I'm not sure - I'm fuzzy on this. But I don't think it's right that just because she can't be changed, I always have to be minimised in public and private with nobody to back me up. And yes, I do respond on my own behalf, it would just be nice to not be so alone on it.

A piece of advice from one who has walked this road with a MIL. You can talk a blue streak to him, to her about how you feel, what you want to see change with your relationship with her etc and it will get you a big fat nowhere. Most sons will not confront their mothers and some mothers just don't have the capacity to keep their mouths shut OR do the right thing when it comes to DIL's and grandchildren.

It will drive you insane Mags and nothing different will come from it, except for continued frustration on your part.

Well...a friend asked me to respond on this thread and I for the longest time I couldn't figure out why she sent me here. Now I know, MIL.

For the first five years plus of our marriage my now ex-MIL sent me what we jokingly refer to as "hate mail". It was nasty. My then husband told me, his brother told me, his father told me that that's the way she is and I just have to put up with it.

The letters, along with several other events, eventually led me to realize that my husband could not or would not protect me.

I was very young back then and immature. Sometimes I thought the problem was all mine. "Why was I so bad that she didn't like me?" As time went on, I had three difficult pregnancies, two life threatening deliveries, kids to raise and as I matured I realized that I was strong enough and secure enough in myself to let it go. I didn't need her validation or that of anyone else.

What I couldn't and didn't let go was the feeling that my husband had chosen not to protect and care for me. I realized that I see those traits of protector and more than just caregiver but someone who can demonstrate care like I see when my boys hold their baby chicks, as extremely important to an intimate relationship. Knowing that my partner protects me and respects me enough to even in disagreement or when I am wrong still protect the core of me really creates an atmosphere in which we can both be safe and honest.

I hope this helps and if this is how you feel I hope your husband can understand.

And, oh yeah, I almost forgot. There are always lessons to be learned. I truly hope I have learned how not to be a mother-in-law. Sometimes it's possible to learn from the negative example.

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There are always lessons to be learned. I truly hope I have learned how not to be a mother-in-law

I felt the same way. Then I became a mother in law. Doesn't seem to matter what I do or say, I don't think she likes me much. I never interfere, I try to let her know that I care about her, but we just have a distant relationship. Not for lack of trying on my part. But as mother in laws, sometimes we seem to forget..our daughter in laws have mothers. And we are just the women who raised their husbands. Be that good, or be that bad. I'm sure they can always find something wrong with how we did that! Someday my daughter in law will be a mother in law and maybe she will appreciate me more!!!!

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Of course there is a point to saying something. If he doesn't say or do anything, this behavior not only remains - it tends to get worse. People tend to edge further and further over boundaries when they aren't stopped, especially if they consistently get away with it.

Hmmm. That's a point. His thing about not changing her, while true, doesn't necessarily mean behaviour can't change. Especially since this whole interacting-with-us-re-baby thing is brand new, as it's our first child, it probably is a good formative time to set up what is acceptable and not. Even if she already behaves this way with her daughters, there is a chance that we could establish that it's not ok to behave this way with us. That said, it requires some conscious control, and I'm not sure his mum consciously knows she's doing it.

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How much do you need him to back you up because it gives external validation and reinforces your self-confidence?

It would be easy to say that it's not that... but how would I really know? How do I tell the difference? I don't think it relates to my self confidence, because when she says stupid things, I know they are stupid - they don't make me doubt my knowledge as a mother. But external validation - what's the test for that?

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I have boundaries that he deals with his family and I with mine.

See in his case, the way he sees it is that his relationship with people are his to look after (even if they are my family), and ditto my relationship with people even in his family. Which does also make sense and sounds fair. Except then when I ask him to say something he sees it as me putting him in the middle of MY relationship with that person. So I'm confused I guess about whether that's true.

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and it will get you a big fat nowhere. Most sons will not confront their mothers and some mothers just don't have the capacity to keep their mouths shut

That too is true Sandy! I'd have less problem with her mouth though, if I felt he was in it with me. But I guess I don't know if he is willing to do that.

Aguantar - yeah that's exactly the thing. I can let go of her behaviour, when I feel like he's there with me. I think it'll still irritate the crap out of me but not such a big deal. But his choice not to protect me... it just makes everything worse. It makes those comments really cut - I guess because they draw attention to his lack of unity with me.
I don't know, I think he understands a lot of this in theory. It's just when it comes into practise, something in him revolts and makes him lose it and accuse me of trying to put him in the middle or reject his parents or something. I can actually see it when he switches from having a discussion where we are trying to understand eachother, to when he just feels this discomfort and lashes out in all directions (and uses my vulnerable points to do that, which is what really really gets to me most about all of this).

Hmm I have more to write... but K's just woken up!
Did I mention she has been THE PERFECT BABY for a couple of weeks now - WOW.
I will regret writing that I know....

Ok, the rest I wanted to write...

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I truly hope I have learned how not to be a mother-in-law.

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Then I became a mother in law.

Yeah, sadly, this is probably true. I think my MIL makes a huge effort not to be the typical MIL. And unfortunately, it possibly causes as much (ok maybe not AS much - but some) problems as if she didn't. Because of her communication style, which is VERY different to mine, making a huge effort means babying me (makes me want to SCREAM - particularly given I HAVE a baby now, it's ridiculous to be TREATED like one!), trying to show love/affection by badgering me and showing so much interest in my life it's like an interrogation, talking at me constantly (but never listening), pushing for un-offerred intimacy, being kiddy and coquettish (which is one of the most efficient ways for a female to annoy me), acting dumb and vague and bimbo-like despite being smart (another pet hate) etc. etc. It's nothing like my mum or family behave like, so it brings out in me the worst in monosyllabic, cold, unemotional, logical intimacy-fleeing. I become like Spock.

On one hand I know how lucky I am that she goes so out of her way to show me love, concern, etc. But in practice it's just NOT my communication style and has me running for the hills. And then because I know how well intended it is, I feel guilty for running for the hills. I do actually like her, and I feel bad that I am so cold towards her. Not rude, but fairly unemotional and concise. Occasionally I force myself not to be, but it actually makes her worse. I really wish she'd behave like a normal human being so I could interact with her like one.

So the times like last week when she's competitive really are pretty rare. Before bubs they never occurred. After bubs... well I think it has to do with her guilt about not being there for the first, very difficult, 3 months. Seeking relevance and importance in bub's life that really she didn't have for a long time, and is slowly developing now. I need to learn to just let that stuff flow around me.

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But as mother in laws, sometimes we seem to forget..our daughter in laws have mothers

Yep, this too. My sister-in-law calls her MIL 'mum'. My MIL would like (I don't think she said so, but I think it's the case) me to do the same. And would like it if I acted as if she's my mother. But I had a mother. And though she's gone she is irreplaceable. And probably more relevant, she was the polar opposite in terms of behaviour (feigned nonchalance to an implausible degree) so I would never be able to relate to her in that way. It just feels totally wrong and weird and off to call somebody 'mum' who is not the person who brought me up.

So complicated, all this stuff.

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That said, it requires some conscious control, and I'm not sure his mum consciously knows she's doing it.

Perhaps not, but that isn't a reason to be ok with her behavior. It isn't a good vs. bad thing, it is only a respect thing. You treat her with respect, and you expect the same in return.

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See in his case, the way he sees it is that his relationship with people are his to look after (even if they are my family), and ditto my relationship with people even in his family. Which does also make sense and sounds fair. Except then when I ask him to say something he sees it as me putting him in the middle of MY relationship with that person. So I'm confused I guess about whether that's true.

Well, I can see how that sounds reasonable and fair on the surface. Really I do. I used to think in that way, too, with my ex-MIL. I don't think that way anymore. I'll give you some reasons why:

1.) It is, after all, on his account that you have a relationship with this woman at all.
2.) You are, in fact, not obligated to have any type of relationship with this woman at all. This is a big one to realize. This realization has the biggest resistance from all angles.
3.) This is not a mere aquaintance. She is a family member who is enjoying a level of interference with the boundary around your marriage and children.
4.) He is the one with the emotional standing to address this with her and have her take it seriously...and as long as it appears that he has no problem, she will likely dismiss your problems as irrelevant.

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and it will get you a big fat nowhere. Most sons will not confront their mothers and some mothers just don't have the capacity to keep their mouths shut

It got me many places. You are right that most sons are not jumping at the gun to cut the umbilical cord, but that doesn't mean that it is ok, or that his partner has to accept it. Frankly, if she had a complete inability to respect me and the boundaries of my family, I'd have a complete inability to be in her presence at all. That's the nuclear option, and there are many things to do and try before reaching it.

It isn't just men who have a problem in truly transitioning from dependent child to adult offspring when it comes to their families - particularly mothers - but that doesn't mean it is emotionally healthy, respectful, or ok.

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making a huge effort means babying me (makes me want to SCREAM - particularly given I HAVE a baby now, it's ridiculous to be TREATED like one!), trying to show love/affection by badgering me and showing so much interest in my life it's like an interrogation, talking at me constantly (but never listening), pushing for un-offerred intimacy, being kiddy and coquettish (which is one of the most efficient ways for a female to annoy me), acting dumb and vague and bimbo-like despite being smart (another pet hate) etc. etc.

This is the Indian way. My god, when I'm in India - especially at my fiance's family home - they feel that giving me one minute to myself is to neglect me. They have no concept of privacy that I can discern. We can close a door to have a private conversation, and they open it, walk in, sit next to me, and begin to talk with no concept of having invaded privacy. I cannot go ten minutes without them attempting to give me food or beverage. Snacks, desserts, chapati, chai... it goes on and on. I do try my best, but I cannot deal with it for long periods. I've also gotten (it's taken a while and a lot of work) some level of understanding that leaving me alone, letting me refuse food (I'm stuffed)... It is work and it requires patience.

There is give and take. I understand that what I view as them constantly trying to shove food down my throat (sometimes they put it right to my lips) is their way of showing they care for me and accept me, and they understand that a closed door is a request for privacy. I need to add here that my fiance's involvement in this - explaining to them - was crucial.

However, one boundary that I definitely have is around our relationship. I also make sure that I never - ever - invite their commentary on it or give an opening for it to be given. Without saying anything, I make it very clear that it is off limits. The same will apply if and when we have children. (And it also applies to my family.)

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And then because I know how well intended it is, I feel guilty for running for the hills. I do actually like her, and I feel bad that I am so cold towards her.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, as they say. It isn't all well-intentioned either. What you are describing sounds like the underlying assumption of control and authority that permeates quite a lot of interactions.

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I really wish she'd behave like a normal human being so I could interact with her like one.

I see a problem here with your insistence on your own paradigm. Your idea of how a "normal human being" behaves is dependent on your own social conditioning and thought processes. From your MIL's paradigm, she is behaving like a normal human being. As a matter of fact, from my own extensive experience inside her culture, her behavior is quite tame. In her paradigm, more effort is given towards a daughter-in-law than a daughter in some ways. The daughter is seen as a member of her husband's family. The daughter-in-law is a continuance of her MIL's family.

I'm not saying your paradigm is wrong, or that you should give it up. I AM saying that you need to realize it isn't the only paradigm out there, and it certainly isn't your MIL's paradigm.

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So the times like last week when she's competitive really are pretty rare. Before bubs they never occurred. After bubs... well I think it has to do with her guilt about not being there for the first, very difficult, 3 months. Seeking relevance and importance in bub's life that really she didn't have for a long time, and is slowly developing now.

You really have a fairly mild case of this, compared to what I've experienced. She will feel guilty, and will feel a need to be very involved. (That doesn't mean you have to be ok with it, or you should have no say in the level of involvement.) The tradition in India that many follow is that a woman goes to her husband's family (if they live separately from his family) during her 9th month of pregnancy and gives birth in that locale. Her husband's family (aka: mostly her MIL) is responsible for taking care of her and the baby prior, during, and just after birth. The entire family participates in, and is responsible for, the rearing of children, and especially the MIL.

There is also a tradition of women going to their own family for the same reasons. Area, religion, caste, etc determine which is the tradition.

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My MIL would like (I don't think she said so, but I think it's the case) me to do the same.

Of course she would. Within the family, calling each other by their first name is not so common as it is here in the US. Even when they do, it is only to specify WHICH sister, aunt, etc. My fiance calls his sisters, "Didi" (Hindi for sister), and if in the company of more than one sister (he has 5), uses the first name only to specify which ex: "Madhu-didi". In many cases, and certainly in the case of a daughter-in-law (as I said, seen to be the continuance of that family, and a member of that family), using a family member's first name is felt to be very disrespectful. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that it is an insult. I have never - nor would I consider doing so - referred to my fiance's father by his first name (Baldhev), nor did I ever call his mother by her first name (Vimla). I refer to them as Dad and Mom. One of his maternal aunts is named Draupadi. To me, she is Massi-ji. Massi = maternal aunt. Ji= term of respect, translate to "honorable". His cousin-brother (yes, they have a term for a male first cousin called cousin-brother) has a wife. I don't know her first name. To me she is Babhi-ji. Babhi=sister-in-law. Ji= term of respect (she's elder to me).

Think of it this way, everyone - any stranger - calls you by your first name. Only people with special relationships to you call you by that relationship.

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It just feels totally wrong and weird and off to call somebody 'mum' who is not the person who brought me up.

That I can understand. I never had any mom that "brought me up", but I do understand. I would suggest that you seek a compromise with this. I don't know what language (there are hundreds) that is the historic native language for your husband's family. If you tell me, I can give some other suggestions. However, Hindi is almost universally recognized. You might try "saas" (the "aa" means pronounce "ah"), which is Hindi for mother-in-law.

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so I would never be able to relate to her in that way.

It would be nice if you could find a way to relate to her, not as your mother or mother replacement, but as your mother-in-law. See if you cannot work out a mutually respectful relationship with her. You seem to see it as a "replacement" and "mum" as a single role for a single person. Maybe it is. But does that mean that there is no room for "mother-in-law" as best that relationship can be established with your husband's mother? She's an individual woman and so are you, and you need to try to work out a relationship with her on those terms.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: *Antigone Rising*,

Thanks Antigone. Your points re why he does have some part in my relationship with his mum make sense. Because you're right, the reason I need to maintain a good relationship with her is because of him.

With the 'mum' thing, it's not a problem, I was illustrating her feelings on the intimacy thing but it's never caused conflict. But you're right, perhaps it was cultural as well. As it is I call her aunty - in my family nobody older than you gets called by first name either, they are all aunty and uncle whatever. And this is as much as I can do because that's how I address my family as a term of respect, and she is family - but 'mum' is how I address my mum, and nobody else. Plus it felt weird to call someone 'aunty' for 7 years while dating and suddenly change what I call her just because I got married.
A funny thing about the aunty thing in my family is because it's used to address someone senior, it's become a sign of age, and people get offended! My H called a family friend 'aunty' and she was actually his age (didn't look it, according to him) - she looked daggers at him it was hilarious

Anyway things have blown over and I think she's getting more relaxed and less competitive (I hope) now that baby knows her a bit and she's been back for longer.

Interesting that you have chosen "aunty", because it is the norm in India to call all elders "auntie" or "uncle". Good choice.

I think there are cultural differences, but to what extent is conjecture on my part. I've noticed that Indians are slow to acclimate to a host culture, and retain strong cultural traditions of their own regardless of where they are actually living. Assimilation never seems to be 100%. (This is true of immigrants from many places.)

My fiance's best friend (27 yo) has been in this country for over 2 years now. He did his master's in Dallas, and is now working for Microsoft. In that entire time period, he has lived and socialized with Indians. I know of only 2 "cultural Americans" (as opposed to NRI American citizens) with whom he has any ongoing social contact: me, and the girlfriend of their other best friend. It goes without saying that those relationships developed by necessity.

I'm half sri lankan Antigone - hence the norm in my family too

It is interesting, a few generations out, what parts of the culture get kept and what disposed of. I think it gets influenced a lot by the happenings in the host country. For my mums family, they are anglophiles, I think because the British were very good to them and rescued them from the Japanese occupation, so they aspire to that and behave in a pretty western manner but still retain a lot of the old values/judgements, eg. love of doctors, no sex before marriage. For my H's family, the british and other europeans were pretty horrible to them (apartheid), so they protected and took pride in their indianness, except sometimes it's very much about appearances rather than reality, and they hide a lot of stuff to keep their image.

I dunno, I think the acclimatisation is affected a lot by their approach. The only Indian-from-India friend I have (as opposed to 2nd-5th generation) was in uni and was very westernised while here, and had a pretty population-proportional representation of australian/indian/asian friends. I think his perspective was why come here if you're only going to hang out with indians. He's probably gone a bit more traditional now that he's back there. But again, his family are anglophiles. Another family I know who are here are probably as or more conservative than they would have been in their home countries, and only associate with other indians. You wonder why they left.
It's interesting.

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I'm half sri lankan Antigone - hence the norm in my family too

That pretty much explains it.

Good point about the culture and family's perspective on the host country. I think that self-confidence and inertia also play a role. I don't think that our friend deliberately attempts to have his friendships that way. I think he came to the US and searched for an Indian roommate because of his comfort zone (and dietary differences).

I'd say he is very westernized. He was very westernized in India. He's a beer (and whiskey and vodka, etc) drinking, pot-smoking, fornicating, hard rock and metal fan. He wears t-shirts and jeans, and eats meat (including red meat and even occasional beef). (His sister did force him into a traditional Indian suit for her wedding.) These things remain constant, and didn't originate in the US.

Hola, mags! I know that you already know much of what this article says, because you spend lots of time with an infant every day and you know pretty well by now how her mind works. Still, I bet you'll be interested in how much scientists have learned about how babies and young children interact with the world.

And I'll tell you -- they're right. Babies and kids hear and see and know -everything-.

http://www.boston.com/lifestyl...nside_the_baby_mind/

Very interesting!
I spend so much time wondering what's going on in her head. I was just talking to her an hour ago about how it's sad that she's learning all this stuff and seeing and hearing and feeling all this stuff that she won't remember in a few years time. She sees everything... but I wish I knew how much she retained, and how often it has to happen to be retained. And I think it often gets retained in instinct instead of memory, and gets built on, rather than her specifically recollecting it.
For instance she has finally stopped screaming at me like I'm going to starve her when I'm getting ready for a feed. She finally has some faith in me, that every other time I've told her I'd feed her and got her into position, I've always followed through, so she doesn't need to tell me off. However, she's now rolled from her tummy to her back three times - probably semi accidental - but today she still couldn't figure out how to get off her tummy except to complain to me. Interesting. Maybe because I left it too long before getting her to do it again? Or maybe she never did actually register that that combination of movements turned her over.

I guess it's sad for me because... although I know that all the time I spend with her IS important because development at this stage provides the basis for everything else coming up next... but she will never actually remember it, look back on the fun we've had, the days we spend playing, the walks to show her all the new things where her eyes go wide and curious. I like to think it'll be in there in her somewhere... but maybe that's just comforting me rather than reality. By the time she can have memories, I'll be back at work, or she might have a sibling, or whatever - she'll never have a memory of when I was just 100% hers.

Wow that bit about how they used to do surgery on babies without anaesthetic made me squirm.

You know one thing though - the article makes me feel a lot less guilty about just leaving her playing on her mat! Seems pretty boring to me... but hopefully she's getting a lot more sensory stimulation out of it than I would be!

Another thing the article made me wonder is about the differences between the male and female brain and whether it's in the same mechanisms - you know how the female brain is supposed to be better able to multitask - is that similar to paying attention to many things like the baby brain?

Geez I just read the first comment at the bottom. That is incredibly depressing. She'll forget any good I do but remember any bad??? Talk about PRESSURE! Sheesh.

I need to start some meditation. Any recommendations anybody?

Tiggy - not sure if you'll read this thread but I didn't want to hijack rlana's....

Re: your comment - Haha - being around this baby is very similar to being in love, I realise! Not the attachment sort of love I have with H now, but the total infatuation of new love - I love looking at her, touching her, kissing her, watching her sleep, I miss her when I'm away from her for a few hours, I do anything to make her smile, I want to hold her when I sleep, I obsess about her...!
Most parents act more sane than this I think. Is this because this love gives way to the attachment sort later on? Maybe when she can talk and give me attitude?
Or does this last forever and other parents just hide the craziness better....!

One thing is for sure - it's convenient to be infatuated with someone who can't yet stop you from just kissing them all day.

I read more at symc than I have time to post...unfortunately. And lately I haven't even had time to read with all the writing I have to do.

Re: love/attachment with the little ones. I think it definately morphs into a more stable form of love. Although, every stage has some new miracle to capture your heart all over again.

My oldest is 27 and I tell you when I saw her coming down the aisle on her wedding day....well, she looked like she was floating on air, so graceful, so beautiful. And my heart skipped a beat, especially when my floating angel suddenly stopped and just glowed at her husband-to-be. Beautiful. I was told later that he glowed right back but I couldn't take my eyes off of her.

The day that same young woman called to tell me she was accepted into the doctoral program she wanted, I was so proud of her.

And there are all the moments before that. All those firsts - steps, words, day in school, questions about why the moon is following us....every kiddo I have had has asked that one several times and in the beginning I tried to explain that, no it isn't really following us. They all looked at me like I was some big fat liar! lol Now I just tell them I don't know why it's following us, maybe it's watching over us. That seems logical doesn't it.

quote:

One thing is for sure - it's convenient to be infatuated with someone who can't yet stop you from just kissing them all day.

I love it!!

quote:

Most parents act more sane than this I think.

Maybe they are just better at hiding it.

Did you know that babies and mommies can usually identify each other via smell? I always found that interesting because I think the first thing I did with my babies was put them close to my face and smell them.

You are being absolutely perfect with that sweet bundle you have.

quote:

Most parents act more sane than this I think

Don't be so sure about that!!! DD8 is still what makes me happy to get up every single day. And when she comes over to hug me and snuggle her Mommy, there is no better feeling in the world.

Hmmm - I felt something a bit rough on lil K's top gum - could she be teething already???

And yep, I reckon I could distinguish her smell among all others. Only problem is she takes a while to get her smell - after a bath she doesn't smell of anything, so we have to let her stew for a couple of days to get her smell back... ;-> Conveniently that is also what's required to reduce the chances of eczema!

Both H and I have always been very smell-centric with eachother, so I guess it was always going to happen with lil K. Those are the best 2 smells in the world. Oh except maybe cake shops. Hmmm. Lucky I never fell for a baker...