Have an affair. Just found this site. Marriage has been non-existent for 6 years. Wasn't looking for this but it's here. Tried everything. Talking, counseling, yelling, writing. Even told her that something like this was bound to happen one day if we didn't resolve our issues.

The fact that you posted this at all tells me that it isn't really what you want to do. The fact that you have stayed in a marriage that has been "nonexistent" for so long tells me the same.

Tell me something else, okay? What is (or isn't) going on in your marriage that you feel driven to this act?

And how close to "about to do it" are you?

Do you have a partner in mind, a place, time, etc?

Just so you know it's not too late to change those things if they are there. You still have time to not do this. You still have a chance to make it different. Please, for your own sake, and that of your wife, please don't make this choice.

Volusia guy..

Welcome to SYMC.. though the reasons that brought you here are very difficult indeed.

So let me ask you, where are you now in all of this?

Would you like to try and repair the damage and recover your marriage?

Loui

Ok, here's my story.

Yes, I have a date and place planned. November 15th. We've been in contact for 6 weeks and it's a woman I dated briefly in college 20 years ago. I wasn't looking and we found each other on the Internet.

Married in 1991 for all the wrong reasons. Just because I was raised to believe that's what you did after college. I said a few times whomever I was dating when I graduated college, that's who I would marry. And I did.

We agreed before marriage we wanted to wait 2 or 3 years before starting a family. Long story short, she made me wait 8 years until she was ready. I'm still ticked about that. I'm six years older than her.

After our second child everything stoped. That was in 2002. No more sex since then. In 2004 she said she was "feeling bad" and thought it was from the pill. Went to see her Dr. and he said he didn't think so but she could stop taking it if she wanted. She did and now said I had to have a V before we could have sex. Mind you it had already been two years. Now it's six.

I tried everything. Talking, counseling, begged her to go and she went....twice....then didn't want to go anymore. I wrote letters, I yelled, I cried, I begged, I told her was going to go to a prostitute. Nothing. Nothing changed. She's all talk and no show.

I really think she means everything she says but in 17 years has never shown any of it. Her parents did everything for her and she has zero life skills. I just can't do it anymore. I don't have any fight left in me.

6 weeks ago the OW contacted me and it's unreal. She's everything I ever expected a wife to be and NEVER had. Yeah, I know, everyone is saying "yes, we've been there" but damnit.....whatever.

Ok. That's the short version.

First, let me say I understand your frustration. 6 years? Nope, I couldn't do that either.

So here's the thing, you need to take some of the responsibility for that. You didn't enforce boundaries and what's acceptable and what's not in your M. It doesn't sound like you went about maintaining your boundaries in the right way - i.e. yelling, threats etc.

So now your getting what you "need" by making an unethical choice. I've been there and I can tell you this choice will hurt you as much (if not more) than it will her. This is to say nothing of the damage to your children.

I suggest backing off OW and do the real work on the ethical relationship (your M). Hire a professional - with or without your wife's participation. If after a reasonable amount of time passes, you can't get your wife onboard - explore ehtical options at that point.

If you can't do that - come back when it's over and we'll help you clean up the mess.

quote:

She's everything I ever expected a wife to be and NEVER had.

And you would know this how? Trust me...things/people/situations are not always as they appear

What about this OW. Does she have a husband, family etc?

Another thing just went through my head...before I get off of here. If you have been having this issue, and it's been this long, and nothing you can do or say will change your wife's mind...I'm not sure I understand. Why not a divorce? Why an affair? As the BS I can tell you there is nothing more traumatic, more devastating, indescribable hurt, then to have your spouse commit infidelity. Are you trying to hurt her because of your own hurt? Or do you just not care at this point and thinking of what might make you happy? Take a look at what infidelity does not only to the spouse, but also to the kids, the extended family, the AP, her family etc. Not a good choice.

Good Morning Volusia

I am very sorry for the circumstances that brought you to SYMC.

I agree
It is very frustrating to be in a marriage where you emotional wants/needs are not being met.
Often times, the grass does look greener on the other side of the fence.
Believe you me, it was difficult not to look outside of my marriage when it seemed my spouse was not willing or able to work on the marriage. There were periods of time when it was all i could do to shift my focus where it belonged, and that was what i could be/should be doing for the marriage as a whole and for myself to help me be a better person and a better marital partner.
It often seemed as though no matter how hard I tried, there was nothing I could do 'right'.
I felt like

and

a good deal of the time.


I agree with Melissa

quote:

The fact that you posted this at all tells me that it isn't really what you want to do. The fact that you have stayed in a marriage that has been "nonexistent" for so long tells me the same.

I will also ask the question that Louie asked

quote:

Would you like to try and repair the damage and recover your marriage?

I agree with Sleepy

quote:

I suggest backing off OW and do the real work on the ethical relationship (your M). Hire a professional - with or without your wife's participation. If after a reasonable amount of time passes, you can't get your wife onboard - explore ehtical options at that point.

and I agree with Sandy

quote:

She's everything I ever expected a wife to be and NEVER had.



And you would know this how? Trust me...things/people/situations are not always as they appear.........
Take a look at what infidelity does not only to the spouse, but also to the kids, the extended family, the AP, her family etc. Not a good choice.

So. Volusia,
You have found yourself in a place called SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE CENTRAL
What can we do to help YOU based on the name of this wondrous Village?

Hugs to you and your dear family
Hypatia

Lot of questions and suggestions...let me see if I can cover them all.

Do I want to work on my marriage. No, not really. Not any more. TRUST ME I have tried and tried. And I know even if it were "restored" to decent it wouldn't be anywhere near what I expected a marriage to be like. Never has been. I would be sad forever. If I had know marriage was this hard I never would've done it.

Do I want to get divorced? No, not really. Don't want to hurt my children that way. Separated maybe. I don't know. I hate being alone, I know that. And I love where I live and my town and my church and my friends and everything about it. I don't ever want to leave here.

How do I know the OW is what I think? I don't and we both said that just this morning. I told her it's easy to overlook the bad stuff right now. We're grown ups. We know. It's things she tells me day to day about her life. She knows how to unclog a sink. She cooks. She keeps a clean house. She cuts the grass if it needs it. She craves affection. None of those things would ever happen in my house. And many more. I've thought about her many times over the last 20 years and apparently she's thought about me. There was just a connection then and now. The only reason I stopped seeing her in college is because my now wife's roommate found out about it and threatened me. I was dating my wife at the time. So I confessed to her and stopped seeing this OW. Remember, we were kids then.

What's her situation? She was married for 17 years and had 3 kids. Found out her husband had been cheating on her probably the entire 17 years. Divorced him, got married again out of pure desperation. Realized quickly she'd made a mistake and kicked him out within a year but not before getting pregnant. Now she has 4 kids and her last ex won't sign the papers but he's been gone almost a year.

Puts a whole new wrench in it, huh? Technically, I've already cheated on my wife with this same OW.

Hiring a professional? Been there. Done that.

Am I trying to hurt her? ABSOLUTELY UNEQUIVICALLY NOT. I love her. I care about her. Just not in a romantic way anymore. More like a sister or good friend.

Guess I'll be going to hell. Whatever.

Thanks for listening.

Hello again Volusia


How can we here at SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE CENTRAL best help you at this point in your life?
I think it best you know that we will NEVER condone an unethical choice, especially that of infidelity.
We will support YOU and your finding a way to SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE

And yes
you have found yourself in what is called an EMOTIONAL AFFAIR
It is our belief at SYMC that all marriages have the potential to grow past infidelity and become a better thing for it
IF a person is willing to do the work
Is this something you think you are willing to do?

Hi Volusia! Interesting story you've got there.

So, you don't like this marriage you're in, in terms of actually dealing with your wife, but you like the structure of your marriage and the life that you've built around it? Makes sense to me, and I can see how frustrated you are after trying for so long to make it work and not being able to.

Here's what I would suggest. Rather than sneak around and be all yucky about it, I suggest that you sit down and have a serious talk with your wife. Explain the situation. Without blaming HER for it -- focus on your own frustration and unhappiness. And tell her that you're in contact with the OW, explain to her what's been suggested. Tell her, too, about the "professionals" that you've used in the past.

At this point, you can expect that your wife will be pretty upset. And again, DO NOT BLAME HER. You've made your choices and some of them aren't all that ethical. She'll be pretty upset about that. However, the goal here is something that I think you will like.

The goal is to lay it out on the table. Here's the situation. Here's what we've done about it. We've tried counseling. We've tried this, that, and the other. I've done these things on my own. Here is my next step.

And then ask, in complete seriousness, if this is what she wants, or if there is another course she prefers.

I don't know what her answer will be -- I just think you might want to be transparently honest about your thought process. You might both grow a whole lot.

Hey Volusia guy...

Well... theres a lot of 'stuff' here that as I understand it suggests that what you want is that your wife be more like the OW..

quote:

Do I want to get divorced? No, not really. Don't want to hurt my children that way

And I love where I live and my town and my church and my friends and everything about it. I don't ever want to leave here.

quote:

I tried everything. Talking, counseling, begged her to go and she went....twice....then didn't want to go anymore. I wrote letters, I yelled, I cried, I begged, I told her was going to go to a prostitute. Nothing. Nothing changed.

How do I know the OW is what I think? I don't ... I told her it's easy to overlook the bad stuff right now.

quote:

I really think she means everything she says but in 17 years has never shown any of it

She knows how to unclog a sink. She cooks. She keeps a clean house. She cuts the grass if it needs it. She craves affection. None of those things would ever happen in my house.

She's everything I ever expected a wife to be

There's a few things here that I'd like to explore with you...And I as much as I'd like you to be able to think clearly about this...Seeing as how you are in the middle of an emotional/physical affair.. I'm thinking you might just brush it off. Nonetheless, I'd like to try. Okay?

Would it be safe to say that IF your wife had shown what you consider to be trying to help the problems, do the things you've asked..do you think you would not have felt the need to go elsewhere to get those needs fulfilled?

Could it be possible that the methods you have used (begging, threatening, yelling) had the reverse effect on your wife than you intended? Maybe those methods in turn touched upon her core hurts of feeling inadequate and unloveable.. And sometimes that cycle which is worse if one is depressed.. just causes someone to shut down completely.

And her shutting down and closing off to you physically basically touched your core hurts of feeling inadequate and unloveable.

then you guys danced this dance thru all the other things in your marriage.

quote:

Married in 1991 for all the wrong reasons. Just because I was raised to believe that's what you did after college. I said a few times whomever I was dating when I graduated college, that's who I would marry. And I did.

Okay.. listen.. I'm gonna stop you right here and call you out on this one.
EVERYONE who gets into an affair rewrites their marriage history. Everyone... bar none. And I'm going to challange you that this statement is something that you've created in order to justify having the affair.

I would be willing to bet that if we could step into the time machine and go back in time..we would find a couple in love. We would find a couple filled with the hope and promise that every marriage has at the start. Otherwise.. you would never have married her.

And as for the OW.. trust me we ALL have our 'could have beens'. Just so you know.. I had one after my divorce. A guy I knew since I was 16 and lost touch with. I was crazy about this guy in High School and we never hooked up.. by the time we had a chance to, we were both involved with other people. So fast forward 25 yrs.. Boom. It was like matches to dry kindling. Until some time went by and things were not quite what I expected. And as more time went by they actually were quite bad. They were eventually what brought me here to SYMC. Suffice it to say after a long painful breakup..and alot of growth and learning that I had to do to clean up my act.. I have moved on. I'm not saying thats what would happen with you. What I am saying is if you don't first clean up your mess, inside yourself and inside your marriage..you just take it all with ya into the next one. And usually you fall into the next one trying to replace what you lost in the first. Rather than from a space of I have figured out who I am, what I want, what my boundaries are and the ethical choices that kind of work brings to oneself.

Right now, you are making choices from a place of deep pain. And usually those choices come back to bite ya in the b*tt.

So I would like to challange you here to talk about what you would like in your marriage. With the woman who IS your wife. Not in a replacement marriage with a replacement OW.

Loui

quote:

Would it be safe to say that IF your wife had shown what you consider to be trying to help the problems, do the things you've asked..do you think you would not have felt the need to go elsewhere to get those needs fulfilled?

I certainly would assume so.

quote:

Could it be possible that the methods you have used (begging, threatening, yelling) had the reverse effect on your wife than you intended?

I didn't start off with those tactics. It evolved to that when nothing changed. Her motto has ALWAYS been "Ignore it and it'll go away."

quote:

And I'm going to challange you that this statement is something that you've created in order to justify having the affair.

Maybe, but I doubt it. I felt this way long before I started talknig to the OW. I had thrown in the towel and resinged myself to a miserable life just for my kids. Started drinking a lot too. Still do.

There's other things. I had angioplasty 3 years ago at age 42. She didn't even come to the hospital. Granted, I told her not to because my parents were there and she had the kids but had it been reversed, you couldn't have kept me away with a team of wild horses.

I quit smoking after 20+ years. She doesn't have any clue how long it's been or when I quit. Wouldn't a caring spouse know those kinds of things? It's huge for me.

Gotta stop here. My brother has been in the hospital for six days and found out this morning he's having surgery this afternoon so I'm leaving to go up there. It's an hour north of here.

Thanks for the feedback. I haven't done anything yet but I really am confused by everyone saying how bad I will feel if I do it. Why should I feel bad?

Oh, and she does know I've been talking to someone. She heard me on the phone one night. We talked about it over the next day or two and she pretty much said don't leave but whatever else you do only you will know about. Never once since then has she EVER asked me to stop talking to OW or work on our marriage or anything.

Hey V-guy. Interesting you came to this site. I think you want to hear a valid argument to not do what you have planned to do, because deep down you know 1)that it is wrong, 2)that it can only end badly in one sense or another, and/or 3)that it is extremely harmful to your wife/sister/friend that you do still deeply care about even if you don't feel romantically in love with her.

I also realize that you feel a deep need to argue or deny all our arguments to you. So I'm not going to bother. You know what you know. You will have natural consequences for your actions, whatever they are.

However, I will back up what JustJ said. If that is indeed how you feel and what you want to do, tell your wife. Give her the opportunity before the deed is done to make some choices of her own. Otherwise, you are holding her captive in the same way that you protest she has done to you for the past several years.

And I think you know that even if you feel she did it to you, nobody should be treated that way - even if it seems OK to "teach someone a lesson" for treating us poorly.

You are an adult, she is an adult, you have the capacity for communication ~ so use it.

quote:

I really am confused by everyone saying how bad I will feel if I do it. Why should I feel bad?

Let's start with the facts that 1. You're still married and 2. OW is still married.

Can you honestly say that you believe it's ever ok for a married person to have a relationship with someone other than their spouse?

The responses that you've received so far are from people who are better equipped to guide you than I, but being male, I tend to have a different persepective then most of the ladies here.

I would find your marriage, as you describe it, to be equally unacceptable.

I'm confused that you don't want to be married to your wife, but at the same time, don't want to divorce. If you were to look at your marriage through the eyes of your wife, what do you see? When your wife stated that you needed to have a V before having sex, did you comply with her request? How does she feel about the lack of physical intimacy in your marriage?

I guess that my biggest question is: What do you hope to get from this website? The Village is full of wonderful people with experience on all sides of the triange. They are more than willing to help anyone make an ethical decision. I don't think that you will receive permission to engage in an affair, if that's what you're hoping for.

I hope your brother's surgery went well.

Volusa Guy..

I agree with 1Niceguy that as you describe your marriage it would be unacceptable. And as he has asked.. have you asked those questions he has mentioned?

And I agree with J's suggestion of having this conversation as well.
Rather than sneak around and be all yucky about it, I suggest that you sit down and have a serious talk with your wife. Explain the situation. Without blaming HER for it -- focus on your own frustration and unhappiness. And tell her that you're in contact with the OW, explain to her what's been suggested. Tell her, too, about the "professionals" that you've used in the past.

quote:

Maybe, but I doubt it. I felt this way long before I started talknig to the OW. I had thrown in the towel and resinged myself to a miserable life just for my kids. Started drinking a lot too. Still do.

Well drinking alot is going to do two things. Certainly not make the situation at home better.. and will wreak havoc with your decision making skills. Alcohol has a tendency to debilitate one's impulse control.

I would not doubt by the way you describe events in your marriage that you started feeling crummy long before talking to OW.. what I was stating was that when you first married.. I would tend to doubt that you married your wife simply because thats what you thought you were supposed to do. I would however, believe that you became disallusioned and that over the years that has led to the way you're feeling now. I do also think that you do love your wife and always have, otherwise you wouldn't have spent all that energy trying to get your needs met from her. And it wouldn't have hurt you as much as it does that things are the way they are...

and you confirm this to me in your answer
"I certainly would assume so" to the question of not looking outside your marriage if your emotional/physical needs were met by your wife.

Its very hard for us to convey to you what happens to your 'self' in an affair. Right now the excitement and addicting qualities of this new thing is very strong. (we call that the fog, or chemical soup of emotions).

Right now its much easier to blame all the outside factors rather than touch all the hurt on the inside.

quote:

I haven't done anything yet but I really am confused by everyone saying how bad I will feel if I do it. Why should I feel bad?

1. Because its unethical and goes against the vows you took in your marriage.
2. Because even if your wife behaves as she does.. I'm guessing that it would still be hurtful to her.. and certainly would not be a good example to your children.
3. Because whenever you do something that you know is morally lacking it takes its toll on your self esteem and your values.

It sounds to me that you are sitting on the brink.. and are wavering. And I know thats a very painful place to be... so, let me ask you.. as others have.. how can we assist you here in helping you save your marriage?

Loui

Hey there -

Welcome to symc. Really sorry you're in such a place. I remember being somewhere pretty similar several years ago.

You know - we are all about saving marriages here... but maybe that's not really what you want? I get the sense that you're really conflicted about several things. And ... if you decide that saving your marriage isn't what you want to do ... I'm really ok with that. You're an adult and you have every right to make that choice. What I'd like to talk about, instead, is something that's more .... mmmm ..... basic than that ..... I'd like to talk about saving YOU. (Errrrr .... not in the religious sense .... although I respect that mindset it's not mine...)

I wrote a column a few years back about the dangers of fairy tales. Why? Because they all end with "and they lived happily ever after." What a crock ... plain and simple. There's no such thing as happily ever after. Or... at least not without facing the dragons and the fire swamp (to mix tales) first. And, although the tales would have us believe the dragons and the fire swamp are the pitfalls that stand in the way of true love .... and once you win the girl (or she catches you ... I've never been quite sure which is more accurate) love will bloom and all will be well ... that's really not the case.

You see, the real dragons and the real fire swamp are not external situations,they are the dark and lonely places that lie hidden and buried in our own selves. What brings roaring and flaming to the surface? Ahhhhh ..... that my friend is accomplished, for most humans, only through our intimate interactions with other humans.

So -- what that means is that *every* intimate relationship will bring your inner demons to the surface. That's the job of relationships. Your job, should you choose to accept it, is to face them, embrace them, heal the wounds beneath them, and to learn, grow, and transform until you can easily and fluidly reconnect with your place of inner calm -- even in the most stressful situations. Being able to remain intimately engaged with another human when your deepest demons get triggered is called by lots of things by lots of people --- I call it being a grown up. Relationships - marriage in particular - is the boot camp that gets us there.

And what does all that have to do with you and your wife and your friend turned OW?

So then -- back to saving you and the pickle you seem to have co-created. Seems to me there's a wealth of learning and growing and transforming that can be done. Will be done, actually, I don't know that we can avoid it. The question, it seems to me, is whether you'll choose the compassionate (aka ethical - ask me if you want me to elaborate on that) way or the selfish (aka unethical) way. Either one is going to hurt .... that's a given. But I think, maybe, only one of those choices is possible without long term harm to your Self.

I really get what you're saying about your wife. It's pretty much verbatim what I said about my exh. Along with the begging and pleading, attempts and counseling, and, of course, the crying and screaming. The loneliness, isolation, deep sinking grief, and ... mmmm .... hollowness are still after all these years easy enough to recall.

I don't ask anyone to stay in that place. What I do ask people to do is to make their choices with intent. Acting ... from a place that is calm, compassionate, grounded, and rational ... weighing the greater good against the possibility of harm, the transitory sensory pleasure against the long term effects.

What does it look like in the cold light of day a week from now, a year, five years, on your death bed? How does it sound when your children ask you about it? Is it a good and right decision or simply one that is easy? Does it add to your sense of integrity and honor? Does it mirror who you are at your center? These are things that are about saving you .... not about what your wife has or has not done ... they're about you and your Self. Only you can violate your values ... no one else.

Those are difficult questions. And I know they are more difficult to hear, let alone process with any depth, when someone else is in the picture. I am really sorry about that. I'm sure your friend turned OW is a wonderful human being. AND .... she, like you, is choosing to distract from her own life issues in a way that is less than honorable. This is not how you want to remember the start of a new relationship.

If your marriage is not salvageable then leave it with honor. Or work out an agreement with your wife about other partners. Whatever you do -- do it with intent, do it with integrity, do it with honor, and be upfront about it.

Now *there's* a fire swamp and a dragon to face.

P

I'll also echo what J and Spidey said. I tried to write something similar in my first post but failed to find the right words.

Something I didn't see anybody else touch on...Have you or your wife ever explored the reasons for her aversion to sex? Assuming you're not exagerating, 6 years is a very very long time, even for someone who doesn't find sex as enjoyable as most. Something is wrong.

As for the V, her request is a delay tactic. There are other ways to get around the birth control in pill form.

quote:

As for the V, her request is a delay tactic. There are other ways to get around the birth control in pill form.

As an aside...it's not that bad of a procedure. But it's supposedly improved since I had it done 20 years ago. Now they even advertise "no scapel, no needle" although I have no idea how they do that.

quote:

Originally posted by 1niceguy:
As an aside...it's not that bad of a procedure.

on the other hand.......there can be very painful complications that last years. Not to scare anybody.

quote:

But it's supposedly improved since I had it done 20 years ago. Now they even advertise "no scapel, no needle" although I have no idea how they do that.

You don't want to know. It involves something that looks very much like an ice pick.