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introverts ... are quickly overwhelmed by casinos.

You know, I don't think that's an introvert thing. (Though I can sure imagine how that would wear you out!) Introversion is about the energy balance when you deal with other people, rather than sensory input in general. I think the sensory part is different. Someone who is gregarious and loves spending time with people can still have a hard time with sensory overload, and people who never want to talk to anyone can still revel in levels of input that you and I would find abhorrent.

Yes, actually, it is.

A blog article

And this quote from the Encyclopedia of Psychology:"Eysenck claims that introverts are more sensitive to cortical arousal and thus more likely to be overwhelmed by external stimuli while extroverts, who are less sensitive to arousal, are more likely to actually seek out additional stimuli.

P

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so how are you feeling today?

Very sad. Very lonely. But I'm not freezing my keyster off on the motorcycle.

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But I'm not freezing my keyster off on the motorcycle.

Well there's something to be said for that, eh?

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Very sad. Very lonely.

I'm sure you are feeling those things and more.

So, what were some of the thoughts/things you were thinking about while you were on that bike?

What are some of the things you are conflicted about in terms of your wife saying that she wants to fix this and your fear that its just another dead end? What would/could she do/say/show you that she is serious? And what would it take for you to believe her?

What about some of the things Penny asked you in her post on saturday?

Loui

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Originally posted by Volusia guy:

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so how are you feeling today?

Very sad. Very lonely. But I'm not freezing my keyster off on the motorcycle.

Been there and have that t-shirt although cheerfully I've outgrown the shirt.

It's a very limiting shirt you know. It's clothing that was so small for me because it was a shirt I put on only when I was focused on a guy. The clothes didn't leave any room for vitually everything else in my life that made up ME.

My girls, my family, my friends, my career, etc. I could never wear that one shirt anywhere else because it was so disconnected to my life. The dresscode of my life prohibited me wearing it in public.

If you're looking for some advice on how to feel better - go get connected to aspects of your life that bring you deep seated joy and meaning. Ground and get in touch with all the places in your existence that make up v-Guy.

You might start with those little girls. They've probably missed you bunches.

GS

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I know your circumstances are different, way different. But I think you owe it to yourself and your family to explore the possibility of marriage counseling etc.

Like I said. Been there, done that. Some folks (not just here) are trying to convince me to give it "one more time". I don't get that. Where do you finally say ok, it's enough. It's not going to get better ever. I think that's where I am now. She's known about OW for almost a month now and has not done anything towards improving our relationship. I haven't either but like I said, I threw in the towel long ago and she knows that.

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I don't get that. Where do you finally say ok, it's enough.

Well I understand that..

So.. let me ask you this?

Lets say you are done. Lets say that you're positive that things are never going to improve.

What would be the harm in you handling the issues that are inside of you while you're still married. While your still in a relatively secure environment?

Divorce throws your life into chaos. The utter magnitude of it I cannot convey to you. Right now though.. if you make a commitment to yourself to put aside the OW, to put aside distractions..and focus on what's going on inside of you...well wouldn't that make more sense to do that while the situation you're living in is still secure.. rather then blowing your world up first and then trying to pick up the pieces?

And in the course of you really looking at the issues within you that need to be handled... and maybe learning what you can do to improve your communication skills, your interaction skills, your relationship skills while still in an ethical one. Well, lets just say with that shift in your self awareness and reality..anything is possible.

And I'm not condoning a relationship with OW while in this space. I'm saying that would need to end.. I'm asking you to actually be a bit selfish.. and concentrate solely on you without that distraction.

Loui

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Where do you finally say ok, it's enough. It's not going to get better ever. I think that's where I am now.

I think you have a ways 2 go, because:

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She's known about OW for almost a month now and has not done anything towards improving our relationship.

What, exactly, do you expect her 2 do? (never mind you have no right 2 'expect', though you can hope). A month for a new BS is not long. You may need 2 give her a few years.

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I haven't either but like I said, I threw in the towel long ago and she knows that.

You threw in the towel = excuse for not doing more and harder work.

Her knowing that you threw in the towel = excuse you made up (perhaps subconsciously) 2 justify not doing more and harder work.

Taking full responsibility for the consequences of the choices we make in life is liberating. But you have 2 be willing 2 take responsibility without shifting made-up blame.

best,
-ol' 2long

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Originally posted by Volusia guy:
Like I said. Been there, done that. Some folks (not just here) are trying to convince me to give it "one more time". I don't get that. Where do you finally say ok, it's enough. It's not going to get better ever. I think that's where I am now.

But the way I see it, there is still work to be done with self. You are acting from a very ungrounded place. There is a lot of healing to be done. Even if you don't remain married, there is still a lot of healing to be done. You can start now. Give yourself a chance to make the decision about the relationship and what your future is going to look like from a new perspective, not from where you feel whipped. I'm not talking about giving something you've already tried another chance but rather, try something different.

HoFS

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What, exactly, do you expect her 2 do? (never mind you have no right 2 'expect', though you can hope). A month for a new BS is not long. You may need 2 give her a few years.

Oh my...I can really understand that comment. It is going to take some time for me to get out of my head....visions. etc. And I do wonder, what's in her head as well. Could be she's scared Shi!le$$ over all of this.

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But the way I see it, there is still work to be done with self. You are acting from a very ungrounded place. There is a lot of healing to be done. Even if you don't remain married, there is still a lot of healing to be done.

This really says it all Vguy. I know you are sad, I know you are confused and feel like there is no where to turn, but what is being said here, makes so much sense. I know there will come a time where you will see that and see it clearly and you will understand.

Compassion for you here is great. ALL of us understand. But you have to stop thinking that we are trying to convince you of something..to reconcile with your wife. We all have your ENTIRE family's well being in mind. Not just yours, but your wife and for me it's about the kids. I never want to have to hear about another kid going through what my child went through or others that I have grown close to here with kids..what they have been through as well...since it will affect them, in the most tragic of ways. And the AP's family as well.

It is not that we are labeling you if you go on and carry through with this affair. We want you to center on yourself and your family. You know, if it's divorce then that's what it will be. But don't rob your wife and your sweet little girls of their choices. Focus on what is best for all of you as a whole. Not what is best for you, simply because you are looking at it from a place of despair right now. That's not fair. Not to you, your wife, your kids, your family, the OW and her family.

I really do feel your pain Vguy. I've seen that same pain in the eyes of my Husband and I will never forget it. I've never seen a man so torn in all my life. It was awful. But his choice did such a number on all of us. Me, our daughter, his step son, his little grandchild, his parents, my mom...we were all so hurt. The recovery is going to take a long time. For all of us. And some of us (my mom, she's the bitter one) will never get over what he did to his wife and little girl.

Just proceed with caution Vguy...You say nothing has happened. If that's the case, leave it that way until you can make a sound decision without losing your integrity. Clean up one mess so to speak before you create another. And I don't mean that in a mean way. I mean it in the most gentle of ways...which is usually my way when it comes to others.

So...is it still Fall in Georgia and were there any leaves changing etc? It was beautiful here a couple of weeks ago. They call this area the little Smokeys. It does resemble the Smokey Mountains on a smaller scale. We even get the blue haze that they get.

Sounds like you were suited up good though. I saw a biker yesterday and I thought DUDE...are you nuts? It was windy and cold and snow flurries...BURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.....

quote:

Originally posted by Sandy:
ALL of us understand. But you have to stop thinking that we are trying to convince you of something..

I respectfully disagree. I think we are all trying to convince him to take everything we are saying, from the lens of our own experiences, and listen carefully...

Vguy, I am divorced and remarried to my second H. I love him dearly - he's absolutely my best friend.

...BUT...

My children, who are adults, were robbed of their families, as well. Their mom and dad will never be able to sit together and marvel at their grandchildren -- their legacy *together*.

I think that's sad.

And that is just one of the MANY ramifications of divorce.

Again, that is not to take away from a second chance I was given to make a good marriage (along with others here) - but I just want you to know that divorce casts a long, long shadow.

Just something to think about...

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So, what were some of the thoughts/things you were thinking about while you were on that bike?

What are some of the things you are conflicted about in terms of your wife saying that she wants to fix this and your fear that its just another dead end? What would/could she do/say/show you that she is serious? And what would it take for you to believe her?

Amazingly I did little thinking on the bike. I was having so much fun Saturday I just listened to music and enjoyed the scenery. Sunday was so brutal I couldn't think about anything.

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And I'm not condoning a relationship with OW while in this space. I'm saying that would need to end.. I'm asking you to actually be a bit selfish.. and concentrate solely on you without that distraction.

Don't think I can do that right now. End it.

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What, exactly, do you expect her 2 do? (never mind you have no right 2 'expect', though you can hope). A month for a new BS is not long. You may need 2 give her a few years.

If the situation were reversed....I would've run to the Dr. to do whatever I needed to revive our sex life. I would have cleaned that house like it's never been cleaned before. I would've been calling every counseler in town. I would be doing anything I could to prevent it.

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You threw in the towel = excuse for not doing more and harder work.

Load of horse squeeze. You have no idea how hard I worked at it. Don't judge people you don't know.

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Compassion for you here is great. ALL of us understand.

I know Sandy. I really do. And I appreciate it. Thanks to all.

I was trying to picture this morning what it would be like on the "day" I move out and I didn't like what I saw. Or sitting down telling my girls daddy's moving out. Awful.

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I just want you to know that divorce casts a long, long shadow.

This is the truth. I know. I am divorced from my first husband as well, although it's really a non issue to my son since he was so young.

However, I do understand that Vguy is at a place right now where he is very hurt and confused and seeking some sort of answer, which may be very difficult no matter the outcome.

I don't view this forum so much as a place to convince a person to do or not do something, but a place to guide one from all our experience with infidelity and divorce and reconciliation and kids and extended families etc.

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I was trying to picture this morning what it would be like on the "day" I move out and I didn't like what I saw. Or sitting down telling my girls daddy's moving out. Awful.

It is beyond what you can imagine. Way beyond.

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If the situation were reversed....I would've run to the Dr. to do whatever I needed to revive our sex life. I would have cleaned that house like it's never been cleaned before. I would've been calling every counseler in town. I would be doing anything I could to prevent it.

One thing I've found out with my time here, is never assume to know what you would do if the tables were turned. It's impossible. Many things factor into why we make the decisions we do. Sadly...for your wife, without knowing how she feels, it's hard to say why she has done or not done what you think she needs to do.

Gotta go look at some Llamas...Don't ask...I'm sure I'm once again going down a road I might regret in a few weeks..Or then again, maybe not.

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I was trying to picture this morning what it would be like on the "day" I move out and I didn't like what I saw. Or sitting down telling my girls daddy's moving out. Awful.

From experience I can tell you.. it is probably the hardest, most painful thing I've ever done. My youngest was around 9 at the time.. she lost that year completely. Emotionally, academically.. she just existed in this frightened bubble. The other two.. well my oldest is now in grad school and her major is family and marriage therapy. I guess THATS no surprise given what happened with her after the divorce. (exH replaced me with her emotionally and she became inexplicably the one he ranted and raved at.. talked to.. confided in about things no 14 yr old ever should have known)...the middle one.. oh she decided to become goth. Thank goodness she's grown out of that.. but still she walks to a drum beat all her own.

And thats just the changes on the surface...I could write a book.

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Vguy, I am divorced and remarried to my second H. I love him dearly - he's absolutely my best friend.

...BUT...

My children, who are adults, were robbed of their families, as well. Their mom and dad will never be able to sit together and marvel at their grandchildren -- their legacy *together*.

ditto that. We are not married, but we have discussed many times had things worked out differently.. had I known then what I know now.. had I done the things I could of to work on me while still married..

Thats not to say we aren't happy.. we are. Its just things might have turned out differently for our marriages.

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Amazingly I did little thinking on the bike. I was having so much fun Saturday

Excellent. that is always something that helps the mind and the soul!!

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Don't think I can do that right now. End it.

So then.. what do you think you can do right now regarding OW?

And what would you be willing to do to work on you? what would you be willing to do.. before divorcing, before leaving.. that might be transformational and healing for you..?

Loui

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So then.. what do you think you can do right now regarding OW?

And what would you be willing to do to work on you? what would you be willing to do.. before divorcing, before leaving.. that might be transformational and healing for you..?

I've already begun working on me. OW is being very encouraging and trying to get me down a healthier path. First time anyone's done that in a long time.

I love talking to her and plan to continue for the time being.

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I've already begun working on me.

So tell me what you've been doing?

What sort of things about yourself are you working on? What sort of things that would help you to be in a healthy relationship are you working on?

Loui

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So tell me what you've been doing?

What sort of things about yourself are you working on? What sort of things that would help you to be in a healthy relationship are you working on?

I've already been cutting back on the alcohol. Thanks to her and her alone. Not putting her on a pedastel or anything but it's a fact.

Healthy relationship with who? My wife? I'm not doing anything.

Well thats a good thing no matter who its attributed too. Its you though thats doing the cutting back and its you who will be in control of that.

How about a healthy relationship with yourself?
Learning about the things that you've participated in and/or maybe could have changed about how you behave(d) in your marriage or any relationship for that matter, that maybe you're not proud of? Or might want to work to do differently down the road?


Loui

vguy,

I wish I could say something that would *poof* get you to see where your path is leading...

I feel the momentum of your journey gaining strength and speed and I want to warn you of the danger...

You understand, I've travelled it before you... I can let you know what's coming...

...but you're almost running now and can't stop.

I was just like you... I said the same things... my H didn't understand me, didn't care, didn't make me feel beautiful, wasn't a good H... all true... and my heart was breaking... and instead of working on me and our marriage, I turned to someone new to meet those needs and it felt so good - at first.

Then my world crashed around me and I'd lost everything that was important to me - mostly, my integrity. I broke into a zillion pieces and it has taken me YEARS AND YEARS to gain myself back.

In the process, I learned that my H wasn't such a bad man after all... he had his own weaknesses, to be sure... but he didn't deserve the pain I inflicted on him. Most of all, our children didn't deserve the messy ugliness that a divorce with infidelity (especially) brings.

Please, just stop. No matter where you are on the path -just stop.

Your next steps you take will affect the lives of all you care about for the rest of your lives.

Please think about this...