Hi Penny, Sandy, Mags and all,

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. Its so good to be able to bounce thoughts and ideas off you all as you've been there and know where I'm coming from.

Re: Ending contact with the club. Penny I see where you're coming from and our marriage is much more important than any club - that's a no brainer. But Mags you are also correct that the club makes up a huge part of her social and support network. These are people she's known her whole life. Of course we'd find something else to do - another sport, activity or club - but we'd still be ripping her life apart by removing her from that support network. If we were to go through with it, I'd guess she'd likely play and coach with another club - and the potential for occassional contact with OM at games and training would still be there. Knowing that, what's the point in making her quit the club? Isn't it better to let her keep the support network? Isn't it possibly more dangerous to our marriage to put her through that at such a vulnerable time?

Why would I tell OM's wife? To increase the chances that he'll stay away from my wife. That's it. I acknowledge that there are other issues to consider - like his kids (who are about 13 and 15 by the way) - but my only real concern at the moment is making sure I'm ok, making sure my wife is ok, and making sure our marriage is ok. I think that that's a valid, but selfish reason (if that's not too contradictory). Having said that, at the moment I'm leaning towards not telling her. Your test Penny is if i would tell her if it were not my marriage that was affected? Well that would depend on how well i knew both partners and in this case no - I don't care about these people enough to stick my nose in like that. If i did this it would definitely be for selfish reasons. I think I'll wait and see how my wife and OM handle NC - if there's any problems keeping them to that I think I'll have to tell her.

Penny I'm glad to hear you say that we should be spending time together. Its what I want to do but was worried we were doing it wrong. We've hardly spent a moment apart since the night before last. We watched sport on tv (a common interest - not just mine!) yesterday, dozed together, and made love. We went out to the casino with friends after a last-minute invite. I was terrified to the point of being panic-stricken the few times she left my side at the casino to go to the toilet or to just 'have a wander' - even though she was gone for only a few moments at a time. I felt pathetic and desperate. When does that start to get better? I don't know how I'm going to cope being at work this week. Or the week after when she starts her new job and will be too far away to meet for lunch or a coffee like we do often now.

I'm worried about validating her behaviour. Am I being too soft on her? Am i being a doormat... 'Don't worry baby, you can fall in love and have affairs with other people. Its ok, I'll take you back because I love you and can't imagine my life without you...'. Am I letting her know that she has a get out of jail free card if she 'falls off the tracks' again, so to speak. I'd be so devastated if anything like this happened again...

In a weird way i do feel better, though. Like you say Mags at least I know what I'm dealing with now and can start trying to heal and trust again.

Mags you are so right about the ultimatum I laid down the other night - that I'll walk away if anything comes up later. I felt like i needed to say that. I cannot stand the thought that she might not have told me everything. I told her that night that she had better think carefully because it was the most important conversation she'd ever have in her life. But you're absolutely right - I've no doubt terrified her into secrecy if there was anything she didn't tell me, or forgot to tell me, or whatever. An amnesty day sounds like a good idea - but aren't there the same problems if she remembers/builds up the courage to tell me something after that date? I need to be strong and show her that she cannot be dishonest with me. How do i do that without making her feel too scared to tell me things in the future?

At the moment I've kept this site to myself, though i think there'll come a time that I bring her here. This really is a tough call. Penny have you thought about maybe also having a private board for BSs as well as WSs? Just a thought. I'd have brought her here already if i knew there was still a place for me to vent my thoughts in privacy.

I may be able to find another counsellor through the work program. Problem is we only get 5 free sessions each and now we've blown half of them on a counsellor my wife doesn't like. oh well.

Thank you all so much for your time.

I would first block his cell from her cell phone. You can do that for your home phone as well. He could work around that but at least it makes him do that. Second when you two are out she leaves her cell phone at home. Or in your pocket. Third I would make it clear to the OM and your wife that any attept to call her results in the OMW being notified. If she contacts then her family is notified.

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Of course we'd find something else to do - another sport, activity or club - but we'd still be ripping her life apart by removing her from that support network.

I get this. Really I do. I have communities that are more family to me than my 'real' family. But you know what? If you marriage ends over this not only will your intimate family be ripped apart but so will the club family. Support networks are invaluable. They can't replace what you lose if home is destroyed. Just can't. And as I said it's virtually guaranteed her interactions there would not go unscathed. Take a year break ... it's a drop in the bucket of a lifetime ... and then reevaluate.

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If we were to go through with it, I'd guess she'd likely play and coach with another club - and the potential for occassional contact with OM at games and training would still be there. Knowing that, what's the point in making her quit the club?

Here's an idea. Why don't you find some new recreational activities the two of you can do together? Boating. Skydiving. Building houses for Habitat. Marathon training. Dirty dancing lessons. Really - the most important thing in life is *not* coaching and playing sports.

Long ago, in a galaxy far away, I was sure I would not, could not, be me if I was unable to continue my marshal arts career. But a bunged up knee and some pregnancy related injuries forced me to prove otherwise. And then I was just as certain, some years later, I would lose all sense of self if I stopped working as an EMT. Lo and behold I was wrong again. What we DO flows from who we ARE -- not the other way around. Being passionately involved in community or activities makes us fascinating, vibrant, human beings ... and we can take that spark of passion from one well loved activity that no longer works for us and let it burn just as brightly somewhere else.

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Isn't it possibly more dangerous to our marriage to put her through that at such a vulnerable time?

It's a good question. I think replacing the club involvement with something new for both of you is key.

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I think that that's a valid, but selfish reason (if that's not too contradictory). Having said that, at the moment I'm leaning towards not telling her. Your test Penny is if i would tell her if it were not my marriage that was affected? Well that would depend on how well i knew both partners and in this case no - I don't care about these people enough to stick my nose in like that. If i did this it would definitely be for selfish reasons. I think I'll wait and see how my wife and OM handle NC - if there's any problems keeping them to that I think I'll have to tell her.

I think that's a fair way to go about it. I really do think she has a right to know. And, I'm one of those people who would out him because I feel so strongly about this issue. And, at the same time, I'm still of two minds about whether you should tell just to tell. I guess I need to think on that more.

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Penny I'm glad to hear you say that we should be spending time together.

Yes!!!

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I was terrified to the point of being panic-stricken the few times she left my side at the casino to go to the toilet or to just 'have a wander' - even though she was gone for only a few moments at a time. I felt pathetic and desperate. When does that start to get better?

It really depends on the situation. Once you know n/c has been established, you've got transparency measures in place, and you're working on creating new connections between you, it should feel a whole lot better. Right now, it's pretty normal to have those panic attacks when she's out of sight.

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I don't know how I'm going to cope being at work this week.

If you have any vacation time, personal time, sick time, etc. now would be a really good time to use it. If nothing else, go talk to your boss and let her/him know what's going on and maybe you can work something out.

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I'm worried about validating her behaviour. Am I being too soft on her? Am i being a doormat... 'Don't worry baby, you can fall in love and have affairs with other people. Its ok, I'll take you back because I love you and can't imagine my life without you...'. Am I letting her know that she has a get out of jail free card if she 'falls off the tracks' again, so to speak.

Good questions. Validating is never out of line. It's not the same as condoning, though. So you can validate how she feels and what her experience is without agreeing it was ok. Know what I mean? AND - it's really important right now to look at risky behavior and to create boundaries to keep your marriage safe as you move forward from this. Your first priority should be as much transparency as possible. After that it should be looking at how this situation got to where it is and making sure the opportunity for the same or similar does not come up again. Affairs happen in really good marriages ... it's important to know the behaviors that put you at risk and to eliminate them as much as possible.

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In a weird way i do feel better, though. Like you say Mags at least I know what I'm dealing with now and can start trying to heal and trust again.

Absolutely. Now think about OM's wife .... she might be living in some horrid state of wondering - terrified at what she might find. Knowing is always better.

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I've no doubt terrified her into secrecy if there was anything she didn't tell me, or forgot to tell me, or whatever. An amnesty day sounds like a good idea - but aren't there the same problems if she remembers/builds up the courage to tell me something after that date?

I think I gave my H about a week to come completely clean. And then during that time I asked every factual question I could think of. The agreement was he told all without reservation and there would be no ... consequences, I guess ... from me. BUT if I found later that he lied or held something back or was deceitful in any way all bets were off.

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Penny have you thought about maybe also having a private board for BSs as well as WSs?

Yanno .... I'm not a fan of private boards. The reason we have the Reclamation board at all is because when we set up the Village there was no marriage advocacy safe place online for people who were working to end an affair. Obviously there are the pro-affair sites ... but non of the marriage sites were safe. So I created the Rec board for people to speak freely and still feel safe. At the same time, when we set up the Village, we created very firm rules geared toward respect and safety for all. From everything I've seen online we are the only forum with this level of respect. I lost friends the first year here because of our insistence that name calling is not allowed.

So, where was I? Oh yeah ... so the reason for the Rec board was more about safety and much less about being invisible to a spouse. The Protection Phase board exists for those folks whose spouses are having affairs and who need to either maintain no contact (posting publicly and hoping your partner reads it is contact) or who need to discuss PP strategies without fear of being seen by the WP. BSA and Addictions? I'm still ambivalent about having them.

The thing is - they take away from the public conversation. So not only is there a limited number of folks who can benefit from the discussion but there are limited number of folks to respond to posts. With the level of respect and safety we've created here I'm not completely convinced of the need for the private spaces. So ... I need to ponder on that I guess. J has suggested many times she'd like to see a members' only space which would be available by subscription membership only. But again that wouldn't necessarily be compartmentalized.

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I'd have brought her here already if i knew there was still a place for me to vent my thoughts in privacy.

See ... and the question I have is - why wouldn't you want her to really know what's going on inside of you?

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I may be able to find another counsellor through the work program. Problem is we only get 5 free sessions each and now we've blown half of them on a counsellor my wife doesn't like. oh well.

Why don't you call me and we could maybe work something out.

Have a peaceful and safe weekend.

P

Topsykrett,
Virtually no one who comes here (either betrayed or on the other side) believes that true no contact must be in place for recovery to happen....until later. The pull to the other person is more than you can imagine and seeing him sets her back more than even she knows. She just knows it hurts too much to be without him, and it hurts too much to be without you. So, the friend game is played...and played...and played....and in the end everyone wonders why their WS isn't quite into the marriage as much as you hoped.

As luck would have it, we were blessed with NC right away. It's going to be four years this week as a matter of fact.

My H and I made it. And our recovery couldn't even start until OM was gone, and I believed it.

It's too late for friends. Sorry. Some things you can't take back. And until OM is really gone, you won't be able to trust your wife and let your guard down...which is a critical step to healing.

Please be one of the few that believes it early. It really will get you farther than trying to play the "friend" game. That just draws it out to the point of horror at every time she is going to fall back into it.

Take a stand.

Much kindness to you,
GS

OK, I read your post yesterday and caught up today and now I want to put in my thoughts. I keep going back to the first post about how you both agreed that contact after 10:00 was out and for very GOOD reasons. She didn't abide by that. Then she was on the phone with him, in secret, while you were out with friends knowing you would be upset but did it anyway. Then she tells him to call or text him later if he needs to. Ummmmm......you ask if you are being a doormat? What do you think?

You want to know when you will quit feeling anxiety when she is out of sight. NEVER as long as she continues to give you reason to "spy" on her because she has proven that you can't believe her by her own actions.

So, the bottom line is, your actions have allowed her to continue her contact with him on non-club issues. I also agree with Penny, there is no way I would allow my H to be involved in any capacity with a place that kept contact with OW. You both need to figure out where your priorities are. Is it the marriage or your activities? You wonder if this would be a good thing for her because of the "life-long" relationships there. Well, she brought this on herself, shouldn't there be consequences to her actions?

I know you can make it through this and have an even stronger marriage, BUT you seem to be the only partner trying to get there. What has she done except break your rules?

Sorry if this seems harsh, but this is my observation from your story. Glad you have found this place to vent, we all have at one time or another or we wouldn't be on this site. Good Luck.

Hey Topsy
How are you going today?
I think if you do need to tell OM's wife in order to keep him away from your wife, then that's a completely fair call. Once she's tried setting boundaries with him, and you've had a go too, and he's still not keeping them - well it seems a logical next step.
In terms of when you'll feel safe again - it will probably start to build when she starts telling you stuff voluntarily. You might want to explain this to her, she might not know the power that has. Even small stuff - whether she's thinking of him, whether he emailed - she may be scared to tell you this stuff in case it upsets you - she may not realise that (if you are strong enough not to be upset by it) it actually helps build your confidence that there are no walls between you. Well that's my theory anyway. Plus it gives you good practise in being non-reactive which again makes it easier for her to tell you stuff next time.

As for the validating. This is such a tough one. I must say I'm in the middle of wondering about this as well. Because my H has been amazing about my stuffup (I guess you could say I was the one in your wife's situation - but worse). And how amazing he has been, has made it so much easier to be fully honest with him. Everytime I fall off the horse with contact I stress and stress about telling him, but he takes it so compassionately that it seems to push me over that "wouldn't it be easier and more peaceful not to tell" line. I don't know if I'd have been able to keep my resolution of telling him stuff if he'd gone off at me each time. On occasion I've even been able to reveal my feelings about/for OM, without him (apparently) taking it personally. I think that's pretty rare, and it blows me away that I have married somebody with that level of maturity and unselfishness.
On the flipside, however, I sometimes have trouble internalising how I have hurt him. Logically I know I have - but because he doesn't rub it in or show much emotion, I find it hard to internalise. And some days I wonder if I would fall off the horse as often as I do if he weren't so understanding. I tend to think I would, but maybe I'm wrong. But I certainly don't think I've got a get out of jail free card to ever do this again. Plus it's been far too painful an experience for me, to ever want to repeat. So for me, I tend to think that you are not being a doormat, as long as she is putting in a lot of effort too - particularly around the transparency thing. I can't say this for sure as I'm so early on in my journey, but that's my current opinion. I don't take my H's compassionate response as a sign that I can do this again (but who knows - in the future if my mind gets all twisted up, will I use it as an excuse?). I do take it as a 'second chance' - a demonstration of just how amazing he is, and that all those times I feel neglected and like he doesn't love me, that he really must. And it makes me want to be the wife he deserves. I think if you make it very clear that this must never happen again (and it has to be said - not just implied), then that will help, and it doesn't make you a doormat.

With the amnesty thing, I don't know. I think one step is setting it some time ahead (like a week as Penny says) so she has time to think rather than being in a panic reaction. Secondly you have to be totally nonreactive at that time. But that said, I have heard of people who have done that and still discover unrevealed things. When my H lied to me, he was one of those. I'm not sure there's much that can be done if a person thinks that way. I chose to stay with him after that (hmm actually I broke up for 2 months but couldn't stick to it!). Whaddya do.
But as for the future dishonesty stuff, thinking to how my H has helped me along with that, there's probably a few things I can think of that might help. It sounds harsh because it would be nice to think that your reaction shouldn't even matter, when it comes to honesty she should just offer it - but providing the right reinforcement seems to help HEAPS
- not reacting when you are told - either by getting angry, blaming, distancing etc. How, I don't know - being superhuman probably helps!
- being compassionate - yes you are the wronged party but she has lost a friend (and if you guys go down the quitting the club line, a whole support network) and is in pain too. Doesn't mean suppress your own pain - you have to share too - but recognise hers to and don't take her pain and feelings of loss personally - it's not about not loving you
- i don't quite know why/how he does this, but somehow my H overstates stuff and it makes it easier to tell, and then just moves on. Like he will volunteer - before I do - the worst case scenario, and then I don't have to sweat and twist my fingers to get it out. He'll actually ask me, following some incident, about whether I'm missing OM - and then it feels like such a relief to tell him, whereas otherwise I'd have kept it to myself. I'll be more specific about examples if you like. But it really helps strengthen the bond.
- consider having a shortcut way of sort of telling you but it being easy. I only tried this last week but my H used to do it with smoking. Last week I used it, because I really wanted to be honest with him but I just couldn't hack talking about it deeply until I'd done some processing. So I texted him a symbol (the one he used to use when he had a smoke and couldn't face telling me) which basically means something's happened that I have to tell you but can we talk about it later. Somehow this gets over the fear barrier a lot easier.

You know what, all I've put above probably sounds pretty unfair, as it's all work for YOU, when really she should just offer you honesty regardless. WS's might get pretty annoyed at me for putting this up there, I don't know. But in your concern for your wife, and her support network, and the rest, you sound a lot like my H in your compassion for her. So I thought maybe the above might help. And the payback is that that stuff helps her be COMPLETELY transparent without fear, and that - I THINK - would help your trust come back faster. But people are different. Maybe you won't be willing to do all that, or maybe she still won't reward those efforts with total transparency. Or maybe she'll give you transparency without all that. Who knows, just thought I'd put it up there in case it helps.

Hey does your wife's new work have an EAP program as well? Maybe you could use the remainder of yours and then use hers?

Hey Penny - what martial arts did you do? And what is an EMT?

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Hey Penny - what martial arts did you do? And what is an EMT?

I did Tang So Do, a traditional Korean martial art, before it become Americanized and turned into a sport, early 1980's. I was pretty ... mmmm ... passionate about it.

EMT = Emergency Medical Technician. I still miss the adrenaline rush of dashing out of the house carrying my shoes in the middle of the night.

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I was terrified to the point of being panic-stricken the few times she left my side at the casino to go to the toilet or to just 'have a wander' - even though she was gone for only a few moments at a time. I felt pathetic and desperate.

I know so well how this feels...

Hi all,

Thanks everyone for your replies. Lots of helpful stuff there that I've been thinking over the last few days.

I've decided to let my wife know about this site and my thread. I told her last weekend and have emailed her the link, but I don't think she's read it yet. Says she's scared and will do it in her own time.

Had a setback on Friday arvo followed by another long discussion/argument/conversation. We'd arranged to meet up after work for a drink. She wasn't where she said she was going to be and didn't return my calls and texts. I found her 45 minutes after i started trying to call her - at a different venue sitting at a table with OM and another girl from work. It was her last day at that job and it was always likely that she would have a drink with her colleagues, but i was less than happy when i saw it was just the three of them especially after she'd not told me where she was and missed my calls.

Long discussion went pretty well. She says she understands now what happened with the affair - that it started off with the smallest of things that she didn't tell me - like having a drink with him after a meeting, or telling him something I didn't know. Once he knew she wasn't telling me things that he did know, he held a power over her to get her to hide more stuff from me. It kept escalating until it got to the secret phone calls, text messages and emails, and then 2 kisses. She feels like a weight is lifted off her shoulders because she knows what happened and how to stop it ever happening again - by telling me the stupid small stuff right from the start. Then he (or any other bloke who has a go) is prevented from having any power over her. I think I've shown her that I can handle it when bad things happen and when she makes mistakes. But if she doesn't tell me when they happen she's so vulnerable to keep making them and keep hiding them. That's how we got into this mess and what we need to avoid at all costs in the future.

I got the phone bill the other day and it showed a bunch of late night/early morning calls to him. Showed that there were a lot more calls that I didn't know about... but i guess they weren't really a surprise. I can't focus on all that - its serves no purpose but to upset me. All I can do is focus on now and on the future.

As I said she's agreed to NC and we'll both be sending NC emails to OM tomorrow (we waited until now as she's finished up in that job now). I won't be telling OM's wife at this stage - I'll rethink that if NC doesn't go as well as it needs to.

I dunno... I hope the new job and nc make things a heck of a lot easier. OM sent her another txt just before midnight tonight (its 2am Sunday morning now). It simply read "???". We were watching a movie and agreed it was a cry for attention. I suggested she ignore it rather than txt or call back to tell him off. She did ignore it.

I'm still upset - devastated, actually - about what happened. Still feel apprehensive when I'm not with her. Still worried that we may not be doing things right, worried about the future.

But I know I love my wife. I know she loves me. I know I'll keep doing everything I can to help our marriage recover. I know we're doing our best to fix up this mess. I know we have the love and support of our friends and family to help us when we need it.

We've got a lot to be thankful for. Its good to remind oneself of that fact every now and then.

Thanks all. I'm going to bed to give my wife a cuddle

cheers,

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OM sent her another txt just before midnight tonight (its 2am Sunday morning now). It simply read "???". We were watching a movie and agreed it was a cry for attention. I suggested she ignore it rather than txt or call back to tell him off. She did ignore it.

Time to change her cell number if she's really serious about NC...at least that is my opinion.

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at a different venue sitting at a table with OM and another girl from work. It was her last day at that job and it was always likely that she would have a drink with her colleagues,

I dunno...but this really, really bothers me. No it's not likely that she SHOULD have a drink with the OM. Not if she is committed to making her marriage work and you all have agreed that she will have no contact with this man. WTH??? She is to meet you and does not contact you in any way and then you "find" her. I don't care if she was sitting there with the OM and the Pope, it's not right. It's called fence sitting and serves no purpose for whatever reason, if she is serious about recovering her marriage.

I will tell you that just like you, I had answers and reasons for everything. To begin with, until things just sort of moved to a point where it couldn't be ignored or explained away. H was doing fence sitting as well and "cake eating" as we put it. Having your cake and eating it to. He would have gone on that way had I allowed it. I have a feeling you have things nagging at you in the back of your mind that you know are just not right, like the larger amount of phone calls and what happened finding her. And the text from him questioning her.

It is so hard for the BS sometimes to realize that the person they are closest to in every way has let them down. And you have every right to be upset and devastated and apprehensive. I just hope that you and she are on the same page here. Some things I'm hearing here make me wonder...and I don't like saying that, but you have to realize here that the pull of this..the chemicals, the fog and all that, make this very hard on the WS as well.

Let us know how NC goes and do by all means, keep it in mind to contact the OM's wife. It is my opinion that she deserves to know. Her H is not honoring his commitment to her obviously, and it should be HER choice as to how she wants to handle that.

All the best to you both...

I couldn't agree more Sandy.

It's just not adding up. What's she doing with OM let alone not taking your calls/txts?

I feel like she's telling you the things you want to hear and just enough to keep you from really getting serious about stopping this affair.

The choice is yours topsykrett - get agressive about ending it or risk losing her.

Hi Topsy

I'm glad your wife is starting to see some of how she got into the deception pattern, and especially what a slippery slope that deception is. And I think you're very right about that danger point where the OP knows that the WS is keeping stuff from their spouse - that's sort of the point at which the whole windows/walls thing gets backwards and dangerous. Telling you the stupid small stuff is a really important thing - as is you showing you can handle it - and I'm so glad you've both agreed on that.

I hope things go well for you now that she has changed jobs - that should remove a lot of the temptation. There will probably be setbacks now and then because it sounds like they were a little more involved than you originally thought - so be careful at times that she is feeling vulnerable/depressed/lonely etc or when self control is low (eg. after alcohol, when you two have fought, etc). If you can handle it emotionally (a big ask) - try and foster an environment where she can tell you about it when she's tempted to contact OM (or respond to him contacting her, etc). At least that way you get to work through stuff together, and identify triggers etc.
Hopefully this job changing thing and leaving the club committee will have a really positive impact on this whole thing. Maybe just be careful of the vulnerability a new job can sometimes start with, and also making sure the hole left by her committee stuff is filled by some you-guys-together stuff.

At this stage, do you feel you know all there is to know, or do you still have fears she hasn't told you everything?

Good luck with it all.

I, too, am very, very troubled by how your wife ended up drinking with the OM. Actions speak louder than words, and I can't think of a louder action than that one. I think you need to assume that there's a full-blown affair here, it's just that you don't actually know about it yet.

Sigh. And since this just keeps going in a direction that worries me, I'm going to suggest that you need to do a couple of things, Topsy. Most importantly, I think it would be very wise if you were to get tested for STDs. I really hope that your wife is telling you the truth. But there's no way to know for sure, and you really don't want to mess with your health. So, go ahead and get the tests. As Mr. Reagan used to say, "Trust, but verify."

Secondly, I think it's time to sit down and review the facts (truly facts -- e-mails, phone calls, contact times and places) and ask yourself how many times OM and your wife have been alone together in a private (or even semi-private) place since the time that you know they first had physical contact.

And then really, really think about that.

Hi Mags, Sandy, Just J, Sleepy and others,

Ok a little update. We had agreed to NC nearly two weeks ago, but it was also understood that it couldn't be carried out effectively until she left her job (no point in sending a nc email and then rocking up to work with OM the next day - the impact would be totally offset). She finished up last Friday, and we agreed she would likely have a drink with her colleagues that afternoon and OM might decide to go along. The breakdown happened when she missed my calls and texts, which lasted about 45 minutes until I found her. There was a reason why she missed them - she'd taken her phone off the table in front of her where it was and put it in her bag because it began to rain. The bag was resting against her leg and she thought she would feel it vibrate. She didn't and she is sorry. There was a large group of them apparently who had left just before I found her and OM and the other girl sitting there just the three of them.

We've discussed it and she agrees that she stuffed up. She should have told me where she was, and she should have been contactable. That doesn't excuse it, I know, but its important to me that she knows what it is that she's done wrong.

She was truly relieved and amazed at the insight I had and shared with her about the power OM had over her. It fell into place for her. She knows what happened and how to stop it happening again. She detests the fact that he did that to her, knowingly or not.

On the weekend we used the nc precedent letter on this site, settled it together, and then sent it to him by email. I followed up with my own email on Monday night simply reiterating that i knew everything, that my wife had recommitted to the marriage, and asking him to respect that and immediately and permanently cease all contact. I wrote that I thought his wife should know, but I had decided not to tell her at this stage. I suggested he discuss it with her himself.

So... what now? I feel better. I feel like we've taken back control of our marriage to a certain extent. My wife is in her new job and won't have any contact with OM for the forseeable. She's resigned from the club committee. Neither of us have received a reply to our nc emails.

Just J - I've done nothing but review the facts over and over. The fact is they have had ample opportunity for the affair to develop over the past 2 years, and especially the last 12 months. The fact is that they were talking to eachother over the phone in secret on an almost daily basis while I was asleep - at least for the last few weeks of the affair. The fact is that whilst the contact began innocently enough, my wife did not reveal to me the amount of time they spent together or what they discussed, and OM knew that she was hiding it from me. By virtue of that fact, he held enormous power over her. The fact is that the situation developed to a stage where not only was my wife hiding things from me, but she began to actively lie to me about the extent of the relationship - even after the Melbourne Cup day text msg - until I found the note in her bag.

The fact is that I do not trust my wife completely at this stage, and it will take me a long time to trust her 100% again. I will need an enormous amount of help from her with that, and to a large extent she has provided that thus far.

STD test? My first reaction is that's ridiculous. Let me get this straight - I BELIEVE MY WIFE WHEN SHE TELLS ME SHE DID NOT HAVE SEX WITH OM.

My second reaction is that my belief in what she's said about there being no sex is mitigated by my previous statement - I don't 100% trust what she tells me now. I may in the future, but I do not right at this point in time. I believe her, but I don't KNOW that she's telling me the truth.

Oh, I don't know. What you're saying makes sense (getting the STD test). I'd likely give someone else in my position that advice. But what's the worst that could happen? If I get something from my wife its not like I'm going to pass it on it to anyone but her. And I believe that my wife would not put my health (and hers) at risk.

So, where does that leave me? I don't know. I'll think about it.

I don't think my wife's read this thread yet. I asked her to tell me if and when she did, just so that I know. Dunno what to make of that. If I were in her shoes wild horses couldn't stop me from having a better clue as to what she was thinking and going through so I could try my best to help. I guess she's just scared. Maybe over it? Maybe needs a break from thinking about all this stuff. She told me she was worried she might get angry at the one-sided posts here. I tried to reassure her about the balanced nature of the site, and the fact that just as many WSs post here as do BSs. Told her about the private board for WSs. Told her she might not agree with everything that every poster writes - that I certainly don't - but that a lot of it might help her, inspire her, help us. I dunno.

Well then, thats about it for now. Thanks again for listening and responding. I do feel a little better. I'm looking forward to spending time with family over christmas, and hopefully a honeymoon early in the new year.

Seasons greetings, and a safe and happy holiday season to you all!

Cheers,

quote:

But what's the worst that could happen? If I get something from my wife its not like I'm going to pass it on it to anyone but her.

It's a little known fact that most common STD's can lay dormant in you body for years without ever manifesting in the form of a symptom - all the while wreaking havoc on your body - especially your reproductive system all the way to your vision. Permanent damage. Theres no such thing as "safe sex" - it all has risks even with "protection". Think about following up with J's advice.

quote:

She told me she was worried she might get angry at the one-sided posts here. I tried to reassure her about the balanced nature of the site, and the fact that just as many WSs post here as do BSs.

While our posts may seem one sided on the surface - esecially to a WS, Our advice comes from a place of wanting to save your marriage - not just you. She is welcome and safe here.

Hey Topsy, thanks for the update!
Have an excellent festive season and hope it all goes well!

quote:

most common STD's can lay dormant in you body for years without ever manifesting in the form of a symptom - all the while wreaking havoc on your body - especially your reproductive system all the way to your vision.

Sleepy & J thanks for telling him. Is there a web site that would explain more information?

Thanks!

Topsy I haven't really posted much, but I have been following your thread...mostly because it sounds so much like where I was at not that long ago. Finding out more and more information, explanations that didn't quite fit or felt incomplete. Things just not adding up. And then I found out more and more and more...and I still find out new things all the time about what J (my X) has done in the past and is continueing to do.
This bother me...

quote:

The breakdown happened when she missed my calls and texts, which lasted about 45 minutes until I found her. There was a reason why she missed them - she'd taken her phone off the table in front of her where it was and put it in her bag because it began to rain. The bag was resting against her leg and she thought she would feel it vibrate. She didn't and she is sorry. There was a large group of them apparently who had left just before I found her and OM and the other girl sitting there just the three of them

It sounds so like the crazy excuses that my X used to give me. I am not saying that she is absolutely lying...but it just sends up a major red flag. It just feels off to me...and I don't know you wife and I wasn't there for the situation or explanation, but there is something there that gives me the same queasy feeling for you that X's reasons always gave me.

I just think that there is more to this than you know. I know that you want to believe you wife when she says that she hasn't slept with him. Trust me...I know. BTDT, got the T-shirt. But you also trusted her not to continue contact without you knowing. And you have trusted her to live up to the promises that she made to you just a few short months ago on you wedding day. And you are trusting her now to keep to NC. I truly hope that your trust is deserved...but I would warn you to really consider the STD test and go into this with your eyes wide open and doing all you can to verify that you can trust her.

Best to you and your wife.

Topsy..

Please tell your wife she is welcome here. Many of us have been on all sides of an A and understand the recovery dynamics in a marriage from all sides.

I know the STD thing sounds soooo unnervingly scary. Maybe its something you both can do as a couple? Like something that you agree to.. even going to the health dept together? I know that sounds rediculous, but.. then your regular drs. don't have to know.. you get to make the appts together and do it together...and get your results at the same time. Making it a little less threatening maybe?

Can I suggest that both you and your wife get the book "not just friends" by Shirley Glass. This is a book that is specifically designed for couples in just your predicament and stage. It details how the WS fell into the hole, what both WS & BS can do to regain some balance and how to protect your marriage from this happening again. And it gives exercises that you both can do too. Does that sound like something that might be of help?

Trust, unfortunately is something that has to be rebuilt. And its going to be difficult for your wife to comprehend fully what that means on her end and its going to take alot of patience and fortitude on yours.

The fact that you've both gotten this far is a testament to both your courage and your dedication to the marriage. It also does not mean you should close off any avenues to building trust because its scary or uncomfortable. All bets are off on that one I'm afraid.

Loui

quote:

My second reaction is that my belief in what she's said about there being no sex is mitigated by my previous statement - I don't 100% trust what she tells me now. I may in the future, but I do not right at this point in time. I believe her, but I don't KNOW that she's telling me the truth.

I am the president of this club, trust me. I am not saying she is lying to you, but I was in the exact same place you are. I wanted so badly to believe what my H was telling me was true. He swore on my life, our child's life, his life, everyone's life, that he never slept with her. Sadly, it was not the truth

However, his adamant denial, as he explained to me was because he didn't want to hurt me any further then he already had. Plus, he was afraid I WOULD leave him. You see, he is very ashamed of what he has done and in his eyes, he was trying to protect me. Although it made me literally physically sick to hear the truth finally, I needed to hear it otherwise I would have had that nagging in the back of my head forever and then how could I have ever moved on?

I feel so bad for you because I know exactly what you are feeling inside. I admire you so much because, well hey...You remind me of ME!! Seriously though, what you are doing right now is so very hard but the end goal is worth it. That's how I feel and I'm sure how you feel as well. If we can get through this, well I think we will both be able to get though most anything else in our marriage.

And as for your wife feeling it would be all one sided here, well just tell her that one of my biggest allies on this forum is a AP/WS. We don't judge on what the role is in these tragedies since it can happen to ANYONE.

But, I'm sure most of it is, as with the case of my H, he doesn't want to be reminded of it, he wants very much to put this behind him. And someday, when he's ready, he said that he might be able to come on here and talk about it. But right now, he's filled with guilt and it's very difficult to think about it for very long. I'm sure that's where your wife is as well.

Tell her that we send her big hugs, as well as you

And have a spectacular holiday season