quote:

Originally posted by TJ:Sleepy & J thanks for telling him. Is there a web site that would explain more information?

Theres a ton of really good info on the net but I've yet to come across a single one that tells the whole story. For example the CDC's website will tell you all about the different STD's, the symptoms and how they are treated (if they can be) and while they suggest the only fool proof way is to avoid an STD is to avoid sex altogether - they don't speak much on how much "protected" sex is really nearly as dangerous.

The best thing to do is google all your questions. Search such terms as 'STD no symptom' for example, you'll be amazed at the results. Try googling 'STD in Eyes' you can go blind if left untreated!

I'll tell you how I found this info myself. After my A my wife asked if I practiced "safe sex" and of course my reply was yes. Because I believed I was safe I never tested. Two years after my A was over I got a UTI (urinary tract infection)which is rare for men. Well, before I went to the doc to confirm it was indeed a UTI, I freaked and googled 'STD no symptoms". It's crazy - more often than not STD's are silent. 70%-80% of women with HSV2 (genital herpes) find out immediately after child birth and their doctor tells them because he saw signs of it during delivery. Condoms barely help prevent HSV2 at all. It's a skin disease and you don't need to exchange bodily fluid to pass it on.

Chlamydia and Gonorrhea can be symptomless and infact are in nearly 50% of cases. (Hope I'm not getting too graffic and I don't mean to scare anyone)



And I second Loui's suggestion to go together. It's not enough to test yourself at this point. Sometimes it takes a long while for an STD to manifest to the point that one could pass it to another.

Edited to add: I'm one thats not assuming the worst. I'm hoping you are right and there was no sex of any kind. At the same time - this is not the time to assume she's telling the whole story. I know I didn;t the first time. It scared the hell out of me to tell my wife everything.

Maybe one of these days I'll write a comprehensive article on STD's and ask it to be added to one of the threads pinned at the top of this forum.

Just to provide an alternative view here, but I think it's quite conceivable that she hasn't slept with the OM. Sounds to me like they were on a path that would have led there eventually, but the way the story sounds to me doesn't particularly suggest that they did already. Still no harm in an STD test of course as you never really know, but I have been surprised that everyone seems incredibly convinced that she has, and I'm not sure I really see anything that suggests that's so. Just my 2 cents. And I don't find the drinks story that implausible either.

There is a good possibility she hasn't been intimate with this man, but then there is also a very good possibility that she has.

These situations take a normally good, loving person and turns them into accomplished liars. Not that I'm saying this is what has happened here Topsy, just stating a fact. All I am saying is, do not be surprised if you find out later on, that it did go that far. And I have all faith that you will be able to handle it.

The story about the drinks may not be impausible Mags, but when Topsy first told us about that, it was like, she was supposed to meet me and didn't. Didn't answer her cell and then he found her with the OM. Well, based on that, of course I know I reacted in my post to him.

I would have been devastated had I been him. Heck, I would have been devastated no matter WHAT the story, simply because I do not think if you are ending an affair, contact is an option, even to say goodbye. Goodbye should be said in a NC letter. If you are attempting to rebuild your marriage, there is no room for friendship with the AP or meetings, even when other people are involved. If it has to be, then take your spouse with you, if they can stomach it that is. Otherwise, it starts to break down that very fragile trust that you were beginning to rebuild.

But if Topsy is satisfied with her explanation, then that is his decision. But in his original post, he was less then happy about it. He was upset. And in my opinion, rightly so. It had to be like someone rubbing salt into a cut when he walked into that place and saw her sitting there with the OM.

Anyhoo...I really hope that she means what she says to him. No one wants happy endings more then me...Or more then everyone on this forum for that matter.

Topsy,

I am catching up around here and your thread drew me in. I can feel your heart and appreciate your thoughtful evaluations of the situation you are dealing with. I wish I had been as thoughtful about my husband's affair.

Anyway, I figure I can throw a thought or two into the mix here.

My short opinion on STD testing - I understand where everyone is coming from. But. I think that is something that can come later. I think first no contact needs to be firmly established. And personally I wouldn't recomend doing it together as a couple. We did that and **I** found it humiliating. I think just reading results would have been much less painful than having our family doc interogate my husband while giving me sideways looks. Eww.

Topsy, How are you doing??

And lastly Its tough. Sometimes just one step at a time is the best way.

Tiggy

Hi all,

Thanks very much for your replies.

I spoke to my Dad about everything last night for the first time. That helped a bit, even though he's like 3,500km away. He's been through a divorce so can offer some insight.

N/C is going well - I know we're only like 4 days in so far, but still... I feel better.

I'm still struggling with my belief/trust in my wife. I'm thinking maybe if I believe what she tells me (which I do) then I have to act like it. And that means I have to trust her. I don't mean pretend to trust her, but actually tell myself that I DO believe her, that I CAN trust her, and act accordingly. I don't know.

I feel like she's told/telling me everything. She knows how important that is. I've asked some little questions that have come up - like where she was at certain times in the past when she might have been with OM. She's been honest and forthcoming in her replies. I thought I saw an email that she'd sent to him and asked her what it was - it turned out to be the n/c email we sent together on the weekend. But she doesn't get upset, annoyed, angry or anything when I ask. She's been very patient and understanding.

Sandy we hadn't established n/c last Friday when I found her with OM and the other girl at the pub. We'd agreed to do it, but not until she finished in that job. And we'd agreed she'd likely have a drink with her colleagues and OM may be there. Certainly if the same thing happened this week, or ever again, now that we've established n/c, it would be a massive deal. I was upset, and still am to a certain degree. But I do believe her explanation. It was raining, the phone would have got wet if she hadn't put it in her bag. She didn't call me because I was at a Christmas function and she didn't want to interrupt any fun I might be having. Of course, I was having very little fun, and counting down the hours, minutes and seconds until I could go to see her. But she didn't know that. And I didn't call or text her to tell her that during the afternoon because I was making an effort not to smother her. It was a simple breakdown in communication, but in unfortunate circumstances that led to me getting very very upset.

One of my problems lately (who am I kidding - its been a problem since this all started like 7 weeks ago) is I'm unable to concentrate at work. I can't go for more than a minute or two without stopping and thinking about this whole thing. Its affecting my performance at work, and I can't seem to help it. I've got no leave accrued to speak of, so can't afford to take time off. I guess its affecting my self esteem pretty considerably as I pride myself on my work and what I've achieved in my career so far. My Dad was able to empathise in that regard - he was the same when he went through his divorce. I think I've got to make a conscious effort to block all this stuff out for periods of time so I can get some quality work done. I'm thinking maybe I'll set myself a mental schedule - I won't let myself be distracted for the next 2 hours, but then I'll give myself 15 minutes just to think, post or read here, or call my wife. Maybe less than 2 hours if I can't do that - 1 hour, 30 minutes, 10 minutes, whatever... I'll let you know how I go.

Gonna start now. 3 hours left of work. I'm aiming to do a solid 2 hours work, and then maybe call the wife to confirm our plans after work. Then back to work until she picks me up.

Thanks everyone for your support.

Cheers,

quote:

I'm unable to concentrate at work. I can't go for more than a minute or two without stopping and thinking about this whole thing. Its affecting my performance at work, and I can't seem to help it. I've got no leave accrued to speak of, so can't afford to take time off. I guess its affecting my self esteem pretty considerably

This happened to me as well Topsy. I wasn't able to concentrate, couldn't sleep, couldn't eat, would forget things and my self esteem? Oh man, that was gone and I'm still working on that. The AP was 25 years younger then me. I know it shouldn't be an issue, but it was.

I fought going to my primary care doc, even though my therapist and people here said I really needed to go see him and maybe get some anti depressants. (I hate taking meds for anything), but I did and it really was the best thing I have ever done. It took the edge off and allowed me to start sleeping again and I was able to start to concentrate. Because, like you at work, I would be at school teaching and WHAM...all of the sudden it would hit me..my H was having an affair and I would be internally, a mess. You might want to check into something like that. If you are not up to that yet, keep it in mind.

You are going through post traumatic stress syndrome. It's not unusual when you have learned of a spouse's infidelity. I remember when Penny told me that, I was like, no way. But I fit every category on the symptom list. It's definitely an indicator that you need to take care of yourself.

I'm really glad you talked to your dad. My whole family is away as well, but everyone would be on the phone every single day checking on me and my close friends here surrounded me and made me get up and go on, especially since I had a young child to care for.

Just remember, forgiveness is so easy. And I know you've done that. But trust, is much harder and it has to be earned. It will come. Slowly, but it will. As long as the two of you are on the same page and she's doing all she can to help you, by being up front and transparent, then I think you will be fine.

Just don't rush it, because it will take time. I have been told that it could take up to a year for me to get to a place where my mind isn't clouded with this any longer. I can say I've gone from thinking about it like 200 times a day to about 20 maybe.. And I might not even have that many times if every time I turned on the television or picked up a magazine there wasn't something that has infidelity attached to it.

Be kind to yourself right now. You've been through a horrible shock. It will take time to heal.

Hi all,

I've been lurking but not posting for a few days. Chrissie was good with the family. We had what I thought were a good couple of weeks following the NC emails we sent on the 14th and 15th. But I was wrong. I managed to guess my wife's email password, and discovered they'd sent several emails back and forth since the NC emails. Nothing inappropriate as far as I can tell - just general banter. But dammit why does this keep freaking happening? I keep thinking we're getting somewhere and then something else happens. I know WSs can 'fall off the wagon', but we'd agreed she'd tell me if she did. Where the hell does that leave us? I've told her over and over again that I can deal with whatever she's going through, whatever she's done and and whatever she does in the future, but I cannot deal with being lied to! If she feels the need to talk to him, tell me, or her sister or a friend. If she gets an email from him send it to me and we can work out if and how to respond together. Or at least cc me in on any reply she sends. Its all fallen on deaf ears.

She's sent another NC email now. But he ignored the last one and she validated it by responding, so...

She's also given me the passwords to all her email accounts so I can continue to monitor if I want to.

She truly believes that they can be platonic friends in the future, although she understands why I dont think thats the case.

I want to throttle OM now. He hasn't really been on my radar before this - he really was irrelevant to me and I was focussed on my wife. But now I just want to pick him up and shake him and say WHAT THE H377 DO YOU THINK YOU ARE DOING!!!!!

My wife read this thread for the first time today too - after I asked her to again as she just doesn't seem to understand the effect she's having on me through all this.

I've written a long email to OM, telling him to man up, asking him how he can look at his wife and kids, at himself in the mirror. Asking what good he thinks can come from his ignoring our requests for NC. Telling him that my wife and he lost the right to be platonic friends because of their actions. Telling him that my wife's done so much to try to fix up their mess by changing jobs, giving up her committee position, and having long and difficult discussions with me about her indiscretions. Suggesting that he man up and take some responsibility, too. That he take the energy he's put into pursuing my wife and put it into fixing whatever's wrong with his own marriage. And finally asking him to do what's right for himself and his family.

I haven't sent it. Not sure it would do any good. What do you think?

And I've booked myself into my GP to be tested for STDs.

What else? I dunno. I feel worse and worse every day when this crap happens. I'm reading Shirley Glass' 'Not Just Friends'. I dont know if I'm still trying to bust up the affair, or if i'm in recovery? I thought we were in recovery after she sent the first nc email...

I've got so much sadness, anger, disappointment, rage, depression, frustration, grief... but it doesn't help to discuss any of it with my wife because she clearly doesn't get it. She sincerely does not understand what I'm going through. The MB site says that to discuss this stuff with her while she's still in contact with OM is very counterproductive. What's your take on that?

I left work in the middle of the day today to come home to confront her, and left a very important project in the balance. I'm losing my good reputation at work because this just takes all my time and energy.

Well, happy new years to you all I guess. Resolutions anyone? Mine is to continue to do whatever I have to to fix my marriage. I hope my wife has the same one...

cheers,

PS - Penny and other mods, I'm aware of the policy regarding respect for all parties including WSs and OMs. I think my post is ok, but please feel free to censor/edit it if you think I've gone too far. And my sincere apologies in advance if that's the case.

Oh Topsykrett...First I think you need a couple of these

I am so sorry that she is still in contact with him. I think that the MB site is correct in that she won't hear what you are saying...not in any productive way...until she is completely free of any contact with OM.

As far as the email you have written to him...I don't think it is out of line at all. I am not a mod, but really I don't think that you are crossing any lines there...I think all your points are valid and I can certainly understand your anger and frustration with him. I don't think I would send it though. Going from the same understanding that he won't hear you either...and it might make them feel that is a "you against them" type of situation. It might draw her back to him in defense against you and cause even more trouble.

I can completely understand the fact that you can't concentrate at work and that it is causing you difficulties there. I had the same issue with I found out about my STBX husband's indiscretions. Each time it was like a hammer blow to my heart and a huge curtain drew between me and our personal stuff and all the obligations I had. I could see the other side an knew what I was supposed to be doing...but I couldn't get through to take care of my responsibilities. It is very hard...an added stress to a very stressful time. Is there anyway that you could take a few days off or something? Does you boss know what is happening...would it help if he/she did know?

I feel terrible for you...and I know how sick it must make you. How your heart must hurt...We here at SYMC understand that only too well. Sorry again to hear that it isn't progressing quite the way you hoped...but you still have hope and I believe that you and your wife can get back on track.

Perhaps she could post here as well...give us and you some insight into where she is coming from...maybe we could try to help her too. She is always just as welcome as you are.

Once again TS...

Don't forget we are here if you need us.

Sigh. I'm sorry, but can't say I'm surprised. I think the question is not so much how she can do this, but rather... can you soothe and calm yourself, and then decide how you want to live your life?

quote:

I've got so much sadness, anger, disappointment, rage, depression, frustration, grief... but it doesn't help to discuss any of it with my wife because she clearly doesn't get it. She sincerely does not understand what I'm going through.

I so know how you feel. I understand more then you know. It's hard to deal sometimes with a spouse who just doesn't get it. Even in recovery, my H still doesn't get it. I don't know if it's because if he faced it, he would have to really own up to it. It's hard to say.

Might want to talk to your GP about some anti depressants, it will help you get through some of this easier and it will also help with concentration at work. I remember being where you are. My mind constantly swirled...it never stopped, it never went away. I couldn't function. I didn't want to take anything, but my therapist and GP both highly suggested it.

It's going to make for a rough new year, isn't it? These holidays seem to make things worse, but you are almost over them for a bit at least.

Have you talked to Penny about what's going on? It might be a good idea.

We are here, don't forget. It's a busy time of year, but I will be checking in frequently.

You tried to do this without contacting the OM's wife and he didn't respect the NC. Now you forward her the emails they sent each other when this started and then clamly ask her to tell her wayward husband to stop pursuing your wife. Or mail them to her.

Put a keylogger on your computer in case they use another account she hasn't given you.

Topsykrett,

If you're worried about the email's content, how about posting it here and letting us take a look? We can give you some objective feedback.

One of the things we do strongly suggest is exposure. It might not be a bad idea to send it to his wife, his work, his religious leader, his friends.. etc. I know that seems a bit strong..but its not out of the realm of consideration in terms of exposure.

And as much as OM's indiscretions towards your wife stinks, remember, she has some culpability too.

Ask your wife to post here too! We'd be more than happy to support and help her as well.

Hope you have a peaceful and good new year...

Loui

Hey there TK

Sorry to hear about where you are at now. These things often have a loooooong tail, I think especially when it was a friendship before the infatuation. It sounds so much like my case it's hard not to project.

I'm glad you now have your wife's email passwords. I think that means she's still trying to do the right thing. But for someone in her situation - it is hard. Not that that makes it ok - but it is so SO hard to tell the truth when you know you'll get in trouble. When things are going well you don't want to tell and spoil them - and when things are going badly you don't want to tell and make it worse. With my stuff when I've slipped it sometimes takes me a day or two to tell, and I live in apprehension for those days.
Regarding the increasing honesty issue, could you discuss with your wife whether there would be some easier way to tell you, indirectly, that there is something to know? For me and H we did this when he was smoking and hiding it from me - he'd message a symbol to my mobile - that way I'd know there was something to know, so to speak, and we could talk about it later. I used the same thing when I'd emailed OM one time - I wanted to be honest but I just didn't have the guts to tell him. Doesn't have to be a text - you could put a bean in a jar or something? I dunno - just something that makes it less scary to be honest.
I'm not saying that she shouldn't just be honest anyway without that. Just that it's hard, and maybe it can be made easier with some creativity. What does she say about why she didn't tell you? I don't know if you've ever had to kick an addiction, but it's tough, it's embarassing, and it sneaks up on you in your weak moments. I watched this with H and his smoking, and thought he was just weak and irresponsible and selfish. Now that I have to go through it I see better how it works. I think the honesty thing will really help if you can find ways to make that come right, because it lets you work on it together, as you said.

The platonic friends thing is very hard to let go of. I'm still struggling to. I just wish I could turn back time and make none of the yucky stuff have happened and have my friend back. It's so very hard to let go of. And when communication is platonic, it feels like it's working, it's getting there, and seems all the more possible. I've no advice on how to fix it, or I'd have fixed myself!

I think it's fine to write to OM. It might be a guilt wake up call for him. Or not, no harm trying.

Good luck TK, I'm so sorry it's not going as smoothly as it should and that you're hurting. I'm glad you're writing here, and that your wife is reading and can see what it's doing to you. Hopefully this can reduce the denial. Good luck with it all.

Hi all,

Thanks for your replies, thoughts and ideas.

Hey Mags good to see you. People were getting worried about you on here and TJ thought the baby might have come!

I might talk to the GP about antidepressants or something. I'm very reluctant to go down that path - I'm a huge believer in dealing with problems, not symptoms. I dont want to take something to make my brain think everything's hunky dorey when its not. I want to work to fix the problem, to make the reality hunky dorey. But I do need to do something fast to stop my career going down the drain. I've moved around recently at work - my old manager knew but my new one doesn't. I dont think it would help if he did.

I've done a lot of self soothing and calming. Its so bloody hard! I want to live my life with my wife, with total and complete honesty, and with trust in eachother. At the moment we are so far away from that its not funny, but I believe we can get there if we both commit ourselves to it, and if OM is out of the picture.

I'm thinking about calling Penny. We're really tight financially at the moment and I'm worried about the cost of the calls and the sessions. Reading that, its a total copout isn't it? Of course we can find the money - this is the most important thing in the world right now. We need to see someone, and there doesn't appear to be anyone locally who can give us the help we need. I'll talk to W.

I'm thinking about exposure to OMW. Not sure how to contact her though. And if W holds up to the latest NC attempt, then what's the point? As I said in an earlier post the only reason I'd tell OMW is to help keep OM away from my W.

Following is my draft email to OM. I still have no idea if I'll send it or not, but it couldn't hurt to find out what you all think:

What sort of man are you to begin and continue a relationship with my wife? Even after I have found out about it, and both W and I asked you to cease all contact. How can you look at yourself in the mirror? How can you wake up in the morning and look your wife in the eyes? How can you look at your children, and purport to teach them about being good and honest people as they grow into young adults?

What good do you expect to come of any of this? Do you foresee a happy future together for you and WW? A nice house on the beach away from everything, no more secret late night phone calls, no more hurried text messages and emails. No more worrying if OMW or BS (me) is going to find out something and cause you both more angst. How about this – What would your parents think of you? Your work colleagues and friends? Your wife? Your children? What on earth would you think of YOURSELF if you broke up your family and mine in a futile attempt to try to live out this happy fairytale?

Yes, my wife is clearly attracted to you. In recent times she has craved your attention. Congratulations. You managed to woo the interest of a good looking lady a little more than half your age. I imagine it must be very flattering. Good for the ego. You know that she’s there to talk to you at any time of the day or night. You can tell her anything – what’s going on at work, how the kids are going, the latest tiff you had with OMW. She listens to you, understands you, cares about you.

And yep, a lot of your communication with my wife has been innocent enough. You guys have to work out club stuff, work stuff, make sure OM’s daughter is sorted out in the under 21s, discuss why OM’s son got a penalty awarded against him last weekend. But you know what? People who have nothing to hide conduct this sort of business out in the open. Like at reasonable hours of the day or early evening. And their spouses are aware of the communication, of the extent of it, of what’s going on. Oh, and they don’t usually end their conversations and meetings with a kiss.

You have lost the right to be my wife’s friend. My wife has lost the right to be your friend. You both have no one to blame for that except for yourselves. There is no way on earth that either of you can be certain that you could keep a future friendship at a platonic level – you’ve both been there, done that, and you have both proven that you are incapable of it.

My wife has done a great deal of work to try to fix the mess the two of you have created. She’s given up her job, and a role in the club she’s been in since she was three years old. She’s put up with the shame of her family knowing what she’s done, and had many long discussions with me over the most difficult of topics – her own indiscretion. What the hell have you done? Sent her risqué emails commenting on her choice of bra? Manipulated her into late night text-a-thons and email conversations? Continued to try to carve a niche for yourself in my wife’s life? Put a guilt trip on her for choosing to take her dream job?

Here’s an idea – why don’t you take some responsibility for this mess? WW's life would be a hell of a lot easier if you were not President of the club. She wouldn’t have to try to juggle occasional professional communications with you as part of her job. She could communicate freely with the committee without worrying that you’ll become involved. And you know what? The Club would survive without you.

I suggest you man up. Take all the energy you’ve put into pursuing my wife, and put it into trying to rebuild a relationship with your own wife. She’s stuck by you through everything. She clearly loves you for who you are, she’s the mother of your children, and you promised to stick by eachother for better or worse. Isn’t that something worth fighting for? Isn’t she much more worth the effort, rather than pursuing a fantasy future relationship with my wife?

WW and I are having a very difficult time of it right now. But we’ve gone through hard times before. We’ve always stuck it out, and worked through those times. Together. As a unit. As a family. Make no mistake, we will get through this as well.

So. I’m not going to ask you to stop all contact with my wife – you clearly couldn’t care less what I want you to do or not to do.

What I am going to ask you to do is to make some smart decisions about where you go from here. Do what’s right for yourself and for your family. You know what that is.

___

Very sorry about the long post - again! I'm going to go make my wife breakfast in bed. Happy New Year all.

Cheers,

TS

Hey there, TS. I like Eviscer8d's idea of a calm, grounded note much better.

Sure, you can deride this man all you want to. But really? There is something so much stronger in -not- making threats or putting someone down, and in not responding when they want to go there. If you can master the slightly perplexed, "Are you having a bit of trouble?" look when someone else is acting like a raving loonie, you tend to be the one who comes out looking the best.

It's even better when you really mean it. It works incredibly well.

And now I need to go do New Year's Eve stuff 'cause my husband just pulled up. YAY!!

Topsykrett, please expose this affair to OM's wife ASAP. As I said in my last post - you really need to take control of this situation.

Hey TK. No no labour yet! Can't happen (I hope!) until my video camera arrives (hopefully tomorrow) - I'm not going through all that torture without being able to check out what actually happened down there!

It's tough with antidepressants. On the one hand I'm anti-med because you never know what upsetting the natural body balance can do. But on the other hand trauma/depression produces it's own imbalance, and can become part of the problem (not just a symptom) if it messes with your reactions and cognitive processes. So it's not totally a case of just treating the symptom - it can be a case of removing a component of the problem - I don't think it would make you feel hunky dory about what's going on. But like I said, meds aren't 100% riskless, so really only you can make that call.

I tried to read your letter to OM as if it was written to me by my OM's wife, to see how I'd feel. And btw I think you were extremely restrained - very impressive - I once wrote a letter to a sort of OW (long story) and it wasn't half as polite! Raow I had claws.
But reading it as an OP, I must say I don't think it would have much effect on me. Firstly by allocating blame to me (I'm going to say me because of the way I was roleplaying it), all I thought was "hey, I'm not forcing him to reply to me, write to me, or whatever". Then the "how can you look your wife in the eyes" etc. stuff - it would be stuff I'd already felt guilty about, and justified (or ignored) in some way - so putting it out there isn't exactly going to precipitate an epiphany - more just make me defensive, in the "You don't even KNOW me" sort of a way. In fact, most of what you say in there is very sensible but... he's already probably thought of it. It's not going to convince him to change anything. Which really, is irrelevant, because your wife is the only person who needs to be convinced.

But I think the biggest thing of all, is that it's from YOU. It makes it seem like you and your wife aren't a unit, even though it seems that a lot of the time through this recovery, you are a unit. I sort of think the letter undermines this. He probably has in his head that you aren't that close, or that she isn't happy with you, or that she shares secrets with him that you don't know about. I think - though I'm not sure how one would go about it - that the sort of letter that would be useful would be one that shows that you ARE a unit and puts him on the outside. A letter written from both of you might be too much to ask, but something that is less like you writing to him on your own, perhaps, might help. Something brief that does make him directly accountable to you (in terms of hearing from you directly and maybe knowing the pain he is causing to both of you), but does not make him defensive with accusations, and also somehow conveys that you and your wife are a unit.

So anyway - I think you can send the letter anyhow if it makes you feel better. If you need to vent to him, accuse him, or whatever, and it helps release your feelings, then that's your choice, it's not like you owe him any niceness. But I think in terms of expecting it to lead to a positive response... I tend to think it won't. If I got a letter trying to put guilt on me (that I had already become accustomed to fending off), and accusing me of tempting OM into contact he didn't want - I'd probably just think "well if he didn't want it, he wouldn't write back - so go get to know your husband better and don't try to put that on me" if you see what I mean.
I'm not having a very coherent day today, so reading this back it doesn't really make the sense I hoped it would. But maybe you'll figure out what I mean anyway.

Hey - has your wife seen the letter? What does she think? I worry that sending something might drive contact in that your wife might feel she has to call up and explain or something. Might be worth checking with her whether that's a risk or not. I sort of think if my H sent that letter, I might be tempted to do something like that. Dunno.

And he's much older than her? Brilliant. Like my story even more. Bah. An ego trip indeed. I once remember reading something about how older, long-time-married, men - if they wanted to misbehave - were particularly dangerous, because they really know how women work - and it takes young men so long to figure that out that they are at a disadvantage. I think there's some truth to it.

I sent a letter to the AP of my husband. I think it's back somewhere in my thread. All it did was make me feel better. I don't think it made much of a difference to her and remember we had a little girl here who was hurting from all of this as well. If it did matter to her, it didn't make her end it with my H...so all I can think is maybe it gave her a momentary feeling of guilt and then it was on with her life, with my Husband.

Send that letter if it will make you feel better but we weren't together when I sent mine, so I do wonder if it will make it appear as if you and your wife don't have a united front here, since the two of you are together. My H was staying with his AP by that time.

One thing I have to agree with Sleepy, and it's not because I think it is something to do to the OM to hurt him, however....it is time to let the OM's wife know what is going on here.

The same way your choices have been robbed from you with how you thought your life with your brand new wife should be, the same is being done to this woman. And, it's not right . She should be able to make her own decisions, her own choices.

I hope things start going better for you in this New Year. I hope your wife will come here and get help as well. Your life together is worth it. Trust me...those vows we take do mean something.

Topsykrett..

about the letter...

first of all... the shorter the better is really the best policy. Half of a long letter won't get read.. or absorbed.

Second...keep to the high road. Even though he is not. Attacks on the character, even though valid are not helpful in this particular situation.

Third... don't validate the things your wife says she feels for him. Or what he might feel for her.

So... I've added parts of the no contact letter we have posted here on SYMC and added a little of your own to it. Take a look and lets work from there. how does that sound?


The relationship my wife had with you was thoughtless and cruel. It hurt many people, particularly myself. My wife has recommitted to our marriage and says she is determined to make amends for the hurt she has caused.

I have been told of all the details of the relationship and she has told me she will tell me of any attempts at contact.

You have lost the right to be my wife’s friend. My wife has lost the right to be your friend. You both have no one to blame for that except for yourselves. There is no way on earth that either of you can be certain that you could keep a future friendship at a platonic level – you’ve both been there, done that, and you have both proven that you are incapable of it.

My wife has done a great deal of work to try to fix the mess the two of you have created. She’s given up her job, and a role in the club she’s been in since she was three years old. She’s put up with the shame of her family knowing what she’s done, and had many long discussions with me over the most difficult of topics – her own indiscretion.

Because of the damage you have participated in to our marriage, I would ask that you respect our wishes to not attempt to contact her in any way at any time now or in the future.

Loui

Hi LouieJ and others,

I have already sent a NC email to OM back on 15 Dec. Its very much like the one that you posted, perhaps even less personal though. It just said I know, WW has told me everything, its not OK, WW has recommitted to the marriage, her family knows, please respect the marriage by immeidately and permanently ceasing all contact. I sent it a day after WW sent her NC email.

My latest draft email was a rant of what I wanted to say to him after both he and my wife broke NC. But I can see now that it wouldn't help anything to send it to him. I spoke to my wife about it, and she suggested i send it to her. So i did. She thanked me for it and said it helped her to understand where I'm at.

I agree with Sandy and Mags that any future contact with OM - from me or my wife - needs to come from both of us. Otherwise it gives the impression that we are not a united front - and now I feel that we very much are.

Thank you so much Mags for your insight as to what you might feel receiving such an email as the AP.

By way of update, W and I spent an entire 4 days together over the weekend doing nice stuff, plus a couple of 'heavy' conversations. Went to the races, then out for dinner and drinks with friends. We wanted to go out to dinner together just the two of us the next night but couldn't afford it, so I cooked us a romantic dinner at home instead. Had family dinner together (like always) on Sunday night at her Mum's.

I see a difference in her compared to even a week ago. I think she's starting to understand what it is I need from her and why. I know she's always wanted to do what's necessary to repair the marriage. The difference now, I think, is that she's found whatever it is she needs in order to actually DO it. She's given me all her email passwords, and we've discussed how she'll handle unavoidable occassional future contact with OM. I'm still reading Shirley Glass' Not Just Friends, and she'll read it too when she gets a chance this week.

I'm feeling good today at work, but still preoccupied and finding it very hard to get anything done. I'm going to see how I go over the next week or so now that I feel we've made significant progress. If I'm still finding it this hard at work next week I'll have to talk to my GP about getting something to try to help me. As you said Mags, the stress of knowing that I'm not doing well at work adds to everything else and makes the day to day stuff much harder. My Dad said something similar when I spoke to him about it, too.

Righto - back to work now!!

cheers,