Glad to hear you're feeling a bit more optimistic TK! The road on this stuff is never simple - 2 steps forward 1 step back a lot of the time - but as long as the net effect is forward - which is usually seems to be with you guys - then that's what matters!
Hope it starts getting a bit easier with the work stuff, or else your GP sorts something out.
Good luck with it all.

Well things are plugging along ok. Couldn't sleep last night and had to get up, cry for a bit, and then have a stiff drink before I could settle down to sleep. Self medication, eh?

I'm trying to think of what I'll do if W breaks NC again. What the heck can I do? For a start, I hope to high heaven that she tells me, rather than me finding something that gives it away. At least then I'll know that its different than before.

But I dont really think that she would tell me. She justified to herself before - several times - contacting him in breach of our agreement, and not telling me about it. Why wouldn't she do it again? Its very easy to make a new email account, chat on MSN, phone from work or whatever. I'd never know - or at least not straight away. She tells me she understands now, and feels differently, but how on earth do I know that? Every time she's told me something like that over the last 2 months its turned out to be absolute bull$*%#. Or, even if she's believed it when she told me, she's changed her mind within hours or days and gone back to secret communications with OM.

I think my answer is that I wont know until I see her behaviour changing over a long period of time. I know OM will try to contact her under the guise of club-related stuff. If she tells me that there's no contact at all over the next couple of weeks I'll be almost certain its a lie. If she tells me when he does contact her, well that'll be one more step towards me trusting her again.

WW told me that she thinks we should expose to OMW. What the heck is that about? Is she saying that because it sounds like something a truly repentant WW would say, but she doesn't think I'll actually do it because she seems to be in recovery? Has she had a true change of heart and wants OMW to know so they can heal too?

Stop Press... just logged into W's work email and found an email chain between her and her new boss. she completed a task for him. h/s "Good Job. I knew there was a reason I hired you ". s/s "Apart from my good looks???". h/s "Always good to have a back up plan... ". What the H377 is that??

Goddammit I'm printing it off and confronting her as soon as she picks me up. Is there anyone who thinks that this type of communication is ok? Am I a totally insecure, overreacting idiot or what? I'd NEVER initiate or tolerate that type of communication from anybody except my wife. A back up plan? WTF?????

I hate my life right now. I did not sign up for this crap.

quote:

I'm trying to think of what I'll do if W breaks NC again

How would you, or she, feel about you asking (at defined intervals such as every 2 days or something) about whether there has been contact?

Kind of keeps things a bit too current, plus there's no guarantee she'd tell, but I thought I might just put it out there because of my experience when I've wanted to tell, but the 'time never seems right' - perhaps a passing question/email or something would make this 'right' time come about?
Obviously her volunteering would be far better. I'm just trying to think of some midway points that would be helpful.

That's weird what she said about OMW. Maybe she is very angry with him for keeping breaking NC, and knows that this would really drop him in it (and then he might stop)? It does sound a little strange to me too.

I'll let others comment on the boss communications, I have no idea what sort of relationship they have or what a backup plan refers to! That said I'd have thought that the fact she wrote that on an email address you have access to means that she, at least, didn't mean anything by it. But I really don't have an opinion myself on that one.

quote:

Well things are plugging along ok. Couldn't sleep last night and had to get up, cry for a bit, and then have a stiff drink before I could settle down to sleep. Self medication, eh?

I understand.

quote:

I'm trying to think of what I'll do if W breaks NC again. What the heck can I do? For a start, I hope to high heaven that she tells me, rather than me finding something that gives it away. At least then I'll know that its different than before.

I hope so too. Hope is one of those things though - that sometimes doesn't match reality. Reality is kind of a bummer, when we find out our expectations weren't based on fact. Hope feels better in the meantime though, doesn't it...especially when it rises. Keep trying to stay with facts though TS. Facts, well...are real and concrete.

quote:

But I dont really think that she would tell me. She justified to herself before - several times - contacting him in breach of our agreement, and not telling me about it. Why wouldn't she do it again? Its very easy to make a new email account, chat on MSN, phone from work or whatever. I'd never know - or at least not straight away.

Suspicion or instinct. I have trouble telling the difference in myself...don't know about you. I feel bad having suspicion...yet most often when I don't listen to it, I kick myself later. Let's not put suspicion in the same category as hope though. Suspicion (am I spelling this darn word right? LOL) starts usually with a history. Let's listen to suspicion and but let's not let it take us to extreme action until we have....facts.

It's good that you think about the what if's.

quote:

She tells me she understands now, and feels differently, but how on earth do I know that? Every time she's told me something like that over the last 2 months its turned out to be absolute bull$*%#. Or, even if she's believed it when she told me, she's changed her mind within hours or days and gone back to secret communications with OM.

If it's any consolation, she probably meant it when she said it. Affairs are powerful drugs. I've known a few addicts, and well, they have a way of seeming sincere and then finding it hurts too much to be without the drugs...and woops, there they went again. Poor dears.

quote:

I think my answer is that I wont know until I see her behaviour changing over a long period of time.

Agree completely. Very wise thought here TS.

quote:

I know OM will try to contact her under the guise of club-related stuff. If she tells me that there's no contact at all over the next couple of weeks I'll be almost certain its a lie. If she tells me when he does contact her, well that'll be one more step towards me trusting her again.

Maybe...probably. You'll drive yourself crazy wondering the various scenarios though. Turn these thoughts to...YOU instead. You have boundaries. You have values. Name them. Write them down. This says who you are.

quote:

WW told me that she thinks we should expose to OMW. What the heck is that about? Is she saying that because it sounds like something a truly repentant WW would say, but she doesn't think I'll actually do it because she seems to be in recovery? Has she had a true change of heart and wants OMW to know so they can heal too?

I would listen to her on this TS. A lot of us here have said the same thing. There could be a variety of reasons your wife wants this...maybe she even wants help with No Contact. I can't think of a "bad" reason to tell his wife. She really should know what's going on. Wouldn't you want someone to tell you?

OK, on the e-mail. Stay calm. Ground. Realize that your emotions are like a firecracker right now. Don't go there Dude.

It's flirtatous (wow, I'm picking the hard to spell words tonight!), but in that gray area. If it weren't for your wife's history, it wouldn't probably be as big a deal. Her boss has no idea of your wife's situation and was just reacting to her "joke." Your wife is pretty messed up right now - talk to her about it, but wait until you're calm...OK?

This Californian is going to bed. I don't know what time it is down under, but it's late here.

Last thing TS - it's going to be a long process to work through this. Stay who you are though. Identify what you want, who you are, what your values are and from there it gets easier to formulate action plans because they are based on you instead of wayward chaos.

You're doing so well so far. I know it's hard. Hang in there,
GS

Thanks Mags and GS,

Just a quick one as its hometime.

WW's boss does know - in general terms - what we are going through. He is the one who was with OM when WW sent the Melbourne Cup day text that was my first d-day. She's filled him in on bits and pieces since then.

And I've seen some other flirty stuff between them on MSN chat. Once he was sick and made a joke about her being his personal nurse. The other time she said something about being good and his reply was that bad girsl are more fun. I told WW I was uncomfortable with it and she agreed it was inappropriate. This time she started the flirty stuff...

I think she simply has different boundaries to me. I have no idea how to deal with that as those values are hard (impossible) to change. I won't ever be comfortable with her participating in that sort of banter... at least I can't see myself being ok with it. Even before d-day I'm sure I wouldn't have been happy with it.

Anyways, thanks for your time and thoughts and I welcome anyone else who has a view to share on all this..

cheers,

Well, since I'm probably the only one awake now...!

Euw. This is the NEW boss? He knows OM? Dangnammit, I was hoping she'd be free of reguglar OM stuff once she changed jobs.
That does make it a little tougher. Regular sexual banter, well.... I've seen instances where there is less than nothing in this (an ex colleague of mine seemed to have no other way of relating to women - once I realised it was him and not personal I was fine with it).... and also instances where there is an 'undertone'. As an outsider, wihtout knowing the person and how they conduct their lives, it's hard to tell which one it is. In my case with the old colleaugue I realised it when a) he did it to everyone, b) I met his wife and saw how devoted and absolutely round her little finger he was, and c) saw that he related to her just as cheekily. Another colleague behaved the same way, but led his life as a playboy and I believe his wife left him after repeated infidelities, so when he did it it wasn't innocent. Do you know much about this new boss of hers?

It's so hard when two parties have different boundaries. I almost KILLED H one of the early times we ever went out with his friends - he was walking 10 metres in front of me.... and holding some girl's hand??????? WTF - for me holding hands was always a 'going out' romantic thing. For them (apparently) it was also a brother sister type thing and they were very old friends. To rub salt in the wound she even has the same name as me! Boy did he hear about that for some time.
As it turns out in that case it was just differences in boundaries, not anything suss. On his side there was nothing - and on her side there was nothing romantic, although she was being possessive and has on various other occasions tried to exclude me.

Waffle waffle.

I agree with GS about talking to your wife, but calmly. It is grey, and the confrontational approach will probably hinder the honesty thing, especially since it's unlikely she saw this as doing anything wrong.

Poor TK, I hope you guys get to a less yucky place soon.

Thanks Mags,

I spoke to W as soon as I got in the car. Told her I thought it was inappropriate, that it was WAY outside my comfort zone and boundaries. But I also said that I understood that she clearly didn't think there was anything wrong with it - seeing as she knows I can access her emails, and I truly believe that she is now committed to our recovery. I didn't shout or rant or anything. Just communicated to her that I was very uncomfortable with it. I told her it was not a case of me telling her she's doing something wrong, and that she must therefore fix it, but rather just telling her what my boundaries are so that she knows, and can take that into account in her future interactions.

Thinking about it, if a woman acted like that with me at work, I'd lose all (most?) of my respect for her. And she'd know about it very quickly. Its just so far outside what I see as acceptable behaviour with a married person that it beggars belief - for me. I understand that for some people, that's how they know how to act with the opposite sex, and it works well for them a lot of the time. But for me its just like, 'Excuse me, can you see the ring on my finger? Do you see the photos on my desk? Do I look like a person available and receptive to flirting and sexual innuendo?'

I don't know much about this new boss. He is engaged to be married later this year. He's older than WW, but not nearly as old as OM. I've met him twice and didn't get a really positive vibe off him (like WOW, we could be great mates!), but it wasn't really negative either. He is the CEO of the peak state body of the sport that WW is involved in. OM is the president of one of the clubs in that sport - thus the acquaintance between he and OM. And thus the need for occassional professional communications between WW and OM - communications that are cc'd to me when its just between OM and WW, and bcc'd when other people are copied in. And thus the convenient (for me) need for WW to step down from her committee position when she took the job. Confused much?

WW's reaction was to apologise. It's just how she acts with people - it works for her. Its easier to work like that rather than to say 'Sorry, but I'm uncomfortable with that last comment - please keep our conversation professional.' BUT she understands that even though she's ok with it, I'm not, and she's promised to work hard to try to alter her behaviour in the future. That's great, I guess, but I feel a bit like the thought police. I don't want her to have to change who she is just because it makes me uncomfortable. I fell in love with her for who she is, for chrissake!! But... oh, I'm going round in circles.

Mags - holding hands with another girl while you walk 10 steps behind them??? OMFG!!! I cannot understand that. Believe me, your reaction to that was entirely normal, understandable, and restrained. I'd have promptly slapped the the offending hand holder with my glove and challenged him to a duel No seriously, I'm speechless - both at H's actions and your ability to understand his point of view. You speak a lot about your husband's compassion to stick with you through your attachment to OM. I have a feeling that you are capable of a similar level of compassion. I'm sure many great things are coming your way in the future - the first of them in the form of a screaming, writhing, hungry, sleepy, demanding, beautiful, irritating, amazing little human being!!

Thanks all. Any other comments/thoughts/lectures welcome

I might be in the minority...but I am with you on the email between her and her boss being completely inapporpriate. Even if that is the way that she routinely behaves toward others (though I can't understand why she would since she is married) this is a difficult time for your marriage. And she should take that into account. She should consider how you would see things like that and behave accordingly. Besides that sort of commentary is inappropriate for a boss/employee relationship anyway.

I am not saying that she is pursuing anything with him...but she should be more considerate of you and how her way of "relating" to others might make you feel, especially in light of what else she has done.

Now take all of that with a grain of salt, because to be honest that was one of the biggest fights between me and J (my STBX). Of course with him there was no such thing as innocent flirting. He would have been willing to go as far as the other person was interested in. So my experience might be coloring this a bit.

I think that you did very well in dealing with confronting the issue though. You remained calm and understanding of her view...I especially like the fact that you noted that obviously she doesn't feel that it was wrong becuase she knows that you have access and didn't attempt to hide it. That would tell me that it probably wasn't meant for harm...but she should still take the situation and your feelings into account. I do think that she should try to make a change...at least a small one.

The fear of what if it happens again is totally normal and understandable. I would like to say though that you probably shouldn't get in the habit of drinking to deal with it...once in a while it might be okay. Lord know's I have had a stiff drink or two during the worst of it...but just be careful okay?

You are doing exceptional in dealing with this. Keep up the good work...and keep coming here when you need to...we're always here.

TK - so glad the discussion went well with your wife! And I'm glad she apologised rather than getting defensive. Hope it goes well. I know what you mean about feeling like the thought police. I think I feel a little guilty every time I ask H to do something that really, is 'for me' rather for himself. I have that with his motorbike. And I realise he has the same hesitation, and that's why he didn't push me for NC with OM. We ended up having a discussion the other day about that it IS ok for me to be doing NC for our marriage, and for him.

It's hard because you can't ask your spouse for unreasonable stuff to be done for you! But some stuff is askable. Changes in communication are a tough one, because she doesn't premeditate acting that way. But if she's willing to tone it down for you, then thats nice.

BTW H didn't hold that girls hand again! Hmm, I still hate her guts though....

Hi all,

Just a quick one about something that's been bothering me.

Since very early in our relationship, I've had no trouble at all in expressing my love for W. In fact, I'd call it a compulsion. Most every time I look at her I feel an overwhelming sense of love and affection for her, and I feel compelled to tell her that I love her. Without exaggeration, I tell her I love her at least 20 or 30 times a day on a weekday, and double that when we spend the whole day together.

For those of you who may not be familiar with my situation, this isn't a new relationship. We've been together over 6 years, and now married for 3 months. This is the only real long term relationship I've been in, and I've done this consistently since a few months after we started dating.

I'm worried that by me saying ILY all the time, its lost a lot of meaning for my wife. We've talked about it, and I've told her that I don't just say it for the sake of it - I say it because I truly mean it each and every time. It hasn't lost any meaning for me. In fact, I feel it more every time I say it to her.

Has anyone else experienced this? I know it might be normal in the early stages of a relationship, but surely its not common to be still feeling that compulsive about it after 6 years?

Any thoughts appreciated.

cheers,

Personally, I see nothing wrong with telling someone you love them, if it's more then just speaking the words or habit.

Seems like you do tell her quite a bit, which might be a little unrealistic at times. How does she feel about it? Does it make her uncomfortable or does she like hearing it?

Myself, I never have minded hearing those words. Sometimes I wish I heard them more.

It does seem like a lot of ILY in that space of time. How does she respond to you each time you say it? Do you say it because you need to hear her say it back to you?

Right now my H says it to me way to much. I know he really means it every time he says it but I KNOW he loves me, I don't need to hear it several times a day. Our situation is different though as he had the A and he needs to hear me tell him I love him back because of his insecurities. Drives me nuts. If she is OK with it, then I think it's great. Just telling you how I'd feel.

You know once I gave into the idea that I was in love with J (or who I thought J was at the time) I said it to him probably about the same amount as you tell your W. He used to make fun of me because when we would lay in bed at night as I was trying to go to sleep I would tell him over and over. It was like I had to let him know how much he meant to me. Not because I needed to hear it from him, though it did hurt me if he didn't say it back, but because I needed him to know how much I loved him. I never wanted him to misunderstand what he meant to me.

I sometimes think that it worked against me...becuase he never expected that I would lose that love for him and so he thought he could do whatever he wanted.

But then I think that the things that he did had nothing to do with me...I just don't know if not saying it so much would have changed anything and I think it probably wouldn't have made any difference at all.

Just a thought but couldn't you just say ILY in different ways? There must be a list out there of 101 ways to say ILY.

Tiggy

I must say 20-30 times a day - and double that on weekends - does sound like a lot. That said, I don't think it makes it bad.

Have you read that 'love languages' book - or articles on it? I think it might be important why you are saying it. If it's your way of expressing yourself - then go for it. If it's to make her feel loved - well you might want to give some thought to whether that's her love language. She might or might not feel loved when you say that, depending on whether she has the same love language. If it's not hers, maybe it's worth finding out what hers is and expressing things that way. And you could tell her yours too.

For instance - my mum expressed love through food. I don't really appreciate food, and felt unloved a lot of the time because I couldn't see it. H expresses it through acts of service, and unfortunately I often take a lot of these for granted. My dad does that too. I express love through talking and interaction - I think that one was called 'quality time'. H's mum talks CONSTANTLY NON STOP and as a result conversation is like white noise to him - he doesn't engage and doesn't feel it as love. He felt unloved because I didn't make him food (lordy he should have married my mother!). OM expressed love through interaction and talking and attention (probably just because of the chemicals) plus expressions of love (which is probably what yours is) so I felt loved by him, when it's H who is the one who really loves me. But I have to consciously remind myself of that, because his ways of showing love are not the same as my ways of perceiving it. When he makes me dinner and then goes and sits at his computer and ignores me - I feel unloved. Whereas if I talk and interact with him but don't make him dinner - he feels unloved.

Messed up hey!

I think it just waters it down a little. If you wife thinks it too much then just show her instead of saying it as much. I would get up each morning scrap the ice/snow off her car and have it running to warm it up. All while she was sleeping. Then I went to work, when she got ready to go a hour later, she didn't have to do much more then sweep the snow off the car. Little things like that. She still cheated on me though!!!

She got used to this and then when I would forget she would get pissy. Obviously this got to be a expected routine and thus devalued. Just an example.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Eviser8d,

TK,

I'm late to your thread, but sometimes....that's not all bad. It gives me the opportunity to see patterns in the chain of events (that happened over time....but I can see in one sitting). The result, is a quickly evolving picture, rather than one that has evolved slowly and be diluted by time. I see several patterns....and sadly, they aren't good ones. Several people along the way have commented on them, but perhaps it would help to restate and expand some of those thoughts in one place.

It's hard to say these things without sounding pessimistic.....but that's not what this is about at all. You can recover from all of these things, but first....you must confront them honestly and fearlessly. I've been where you are....unfortunately....more than once or twice. Boundaries have been a major issue.

I also just celebrated my 26th wedding anniversary a week ago, and have recently been blessed with my first grandchild.

Boundaries: This is a major issue in your marriage. I may be stating the obvious, but I think this warrants more discussion. Your wife has poor marital boundaries. She doesn't understand/or is unmotivated, to protect your marriage properly. This lack of boundaries has manifested itself in both the relationship with OM....and....with her new boss. The fact that the new problems have arisen so soon after the pre-existing ones, sets a very dangerous precedent. It shows a "pattern" of poor boundaries that is more serious and dangerous than her relationship with either man. Do you understand that? I think you do....and that's why you're so filled with anxiety and fear.

But I'm also worried about your boundaries. Does that surprise you? Oh, I'm not worried about your boundaries with other women....I'm worried about the way you enable your wife to trample yours. Are you so afraid of losing her that you're willing to allow more than you should? Make more excuses for her ridiculous behavior than is prudent? Believe her when her explanations are implausible? Give her too many chances? I believe your counselor is right....you come off as more needy than angry....and that won't help you. I actually think you need LESS anger (and definitely LESS anxiety) and MORE MORE MORE assertiveness and confidence. Your wife needs to understand that your world won't fall apart without her in it....and since you don't believe that....you can't sell it. I know for me, I had to save myself before I could save my marriage.

Flirting: Someone I know once said "flirting is NEVER innocent...it's always sexual". I thought that was an odd comment, but it rang true. Flirting is a form a foreplay. And in the case of married people...flirting is destructive to the marriage and any children that might be involved in those marriages....whether they know about it....or strangely, even if they don't....because it takes sexual energy/connectivity out of the primary relationship. It has no place in the workplace....and merely serves the purpose of testing the marital "waters" for possible escalation into sexuality. And your wife already knows it's inappropriate and does it anyway. Why? I'm not sure. The possibilities are complicated and varied....but these are not innocent acts....they are destructive choices. She is choosing to harm your marriage...and you....and ultimately herself. Why?

Attention: Your wife...for whatever reason (and you two need explore what that is) needs attention from other men. This (as you know) is not a healthy need for a married woman, and it's not healthy for you tolerate it because it is tearing you apart.

Face the fear: Until you're willing to look your darkest fear in the face....the truth will elude you. You SO want to believe the best (or the least worst), that the details will trickle out slowly and suck the life out of you. They'll turn you into a paranoid snoop who feels sick every time you can't monitor what she does. Your work, your sleep, your happiness are being destroyed by the fear that you will really know....what you already know. If it quacks like a duck and has feathers like a duck...it's a duck. Deal with the duck.

"What we shared"....is the duck. Somehow, she's convinced you to ignore the webbed feet and feathers....but it's still a duck.

Each time you confront your wife with a new piece of the puzzle....she convinces you that NOW she "gets it". She also convinces you that the pieces don't "fit" when you can clearly see that they do. She does get it....she just doesn't want to change because it makes her feel the way she wants to feel. So why does she need that?

Stop pussyfooting around: Stop making threats and follow through. Compassion is the best motivation for telling OMW....you both need it. She needs the truth to work on her own marriage, as much as you need the truth to work on yours.

Did you ever get the std testing done?

I have more thoughts, but I'm falling asleep...

Hey guys,

Thanks for your replies! W and I have talked about the ILY thing. I say it because I feel it intensely when I look at her, not because I need to hear it from her. But all the same its very nice when she says it back to me - which is just about everytime I say it. Its REALLY nice when she tells me spontaneously, which has been happening quite a lot the last couple of weeks

Another thing that has been happening a lot the last couple of weeks is that I've been feeling absolute rage towards OM. You'll remember earlier on I was ambivalent to him, his actions and his feelings. I felt that they didn't matter - what mattered was how W responded to him.

Since New Years Eve we've had solid NC save for necessary professional communications which are cc'd to me. I've got full access to W's emails including her work email, and I feel that W is actually committed to recovery. Its very different to the first 2 months post d-day, when I felt I was battling against W - or against W and OM. Now its very much like its W and I against whatever comes our way - a much better feeling!!

So I think that now I feel like I've got W 'under control' (not literally, just that I feel like we're in recovery - you know what I mean!) I've had more time to focus on OM and what he did. Sure, I have been and still am angry at W for her part in all this mess, but I've had the opportunity to talk to her about that and deal with it - I think I'm pretty close to actually forgiving her.

I haven't had the opportunity to speak to OM about it at all. I've come very close a couple of times in the last few days to picking up the phone and calling him - but I've been able to stop myself. I feel SO ANGRY at him for what he did, and continued to do after d-day. He continued to manipulate W into secret communications with him when he knew how much pain he had caused us. And it worked a charm in the beginning, because I can tell from phone and email records that she invariably ended up talking/texting/emailing him until the early hours of the morning when he did that.

I had to go to a meeting in his building today, and I was wishing so much that he'd be standing outside where I would run into him, so I'd have the opportunity to give him a piece of my mind. I want him to feel as low as one can feel. I want him to suffer, to experience something of the kind that he and W have put me through. I want him to feel ashamed to show his face in public. I want his wife and kids to look at him and know what he did.

I guess if I'd exposed correctly in the first place I would have had a lot of that. Now, exposure to work and social networks would be nothing but vindictive, as NC is in place. However, I will be exposing to OMW. W has said she knows how to contact her, and she'll help me to do it. I'll try to sort it out tonight. It's a little bit hard as most of what I know is because W has told me - there's very little in writing except a few borderline inappropriate emails. Maybe W will need to talk to her to convince her its not just me being paranoid. I can't not tell her as I know I'd need to know. There's also the upside that he'll have another very good reason to keep NC. And the cream on the cake is that he will feel at least SOME repurcussions for what he's done.

I find myself almost wishing that he'd break NC so that I had an excuse to expose to everyone - his work, children, and key people at the sports club he's the president of. I'd not hesitate this time. Heck, with any luck he'd be so embarrassed he'd move interstate!

Anyway, not sure what my point of posting today is. I guess to update you all on how I'm going. Can anyone give me a perspective on how to get over this anger? How long will it last? What should I do when it happens and how do I help myself get past it?

I do not like the way I feel. Its an ugly side of me that I didn't really know existed. The only person I've felt this strongly about before is a former boyfriend of W's who once hit her.

Cheers,

Hi Starfish,

We were posting at the same time, so I hadn't seen your thread when I posted above.

I've just quickly read your post and you raise some good points. I'm going to re read and reflect before responding. Thank you so much for taking the time to read through my thread! I truly appreciate the time and effort you and others here have put into helping through all of this.

Cheers,

Hey all,

Update - I'm off to the doctor in a few minutes to get STD checks done, and to ask about antidepresseant/anti-anxiety meds. I've also spoken to my new manager about what's going on.

But the big news is that I exposed to OMW just now. W gave me her mobile number yesterday, and I called and told her in broad details what I know. She gave me her email address and I've sent her all the emails that I've been able to find, together with the handwritten note my W wrote, and a summary of everything W has told me.

I know I'm sort of doing this backwards - that I should have exposed to her like 2 months ago. But I feel really good that I've done it now. OM's secret and fantasy is shattered. He'll have to face the reality of what he's done, just as my W has had to. And I don't feel guilty anymore about being complicit in their deceit.

I think you're right about the boundaries, Starfish. Its something that I've spoken about at length with my W. I've told her clearly and assertively that the flirting is way outside my boundaries. I know she's working hard to avoid being complicit in that behaviour - I've seen a text conversation she's had with her new boss since that discussion - one that she wouldn't have known I'd see - and he made a flirty comment. She stopped him in his tracks. I was very proud of her. She is making a huge effort to choose to stay within my boundaries as well as hers. I wont be able to trust her to continue doing it until I see it over a long period of time, but we've all got to start somewhere, don't we?

I am confused about where I draw the line. When do I say enough is enough, I won't stand for this, and take steps to remove myself from the relationship? I dont know. I told her I was moving to the spare room and separating our finances when I found her breaking no contact on new years eve. I told her i love her and would do whatever it took to recover our marriage, but only on 2 conditions - that she cease lying to me, and that she keep NC with OM. She immediately agreed, and sent another nc email to OM, gave me full access to her email accounts, and Nc has been solid ever since.

I dont know what to do if she breaks those conditions in the future. If I catch her lying and I forgive her in the future, am I telling her that its ok to disregard my boundaries? If I tell her that I'll leave her if she lies to me again, won't that scare her into never telling me if she does do something stupid in the future? How do I assert my boundaries without scaring her into withdrawal?

Anyways, I'm off to the doctor. Congratulations over there on your new President! He seems like a man who might just make a real difference in improving this world we live in!

cheers,