Ok, so I've become quite the scholar in the last few weeks on the in's, outs/ ups and downs of long term relationships, and I really found Penny's post about the biochemistry of an affair quite an interesting read and informative. Understanding the 3 types of relations (Fog/lust, romance and attachment), I have no doubt that my wife and I are in the 3rd (and most lasting stage, thankfully), which is her reasoning for wanting to work through our mess with her OM. But, and here is the tricky part... I still have those romantic and lustful feelings for my wife quite often actually. She is the most stunning girl in any room at any given time even if she were in a room of swedish supermodels.

Now, in her case, I understand that this OM is the hottest thing on the block, and even though she is ending it with him (probably as we speak as I look at my watch), I know that sexually and romantically I am last night's pizza compared to tonight's main course of prime rib. Thankfully her long term love of pizza has left me as the safer, more logical and far less expensive option. Yippee..makes me feel great. lol

The question is, and I know already I could never get her back to the inital lust stage (as of course I can't get there either, but who cares?), what things can I possibly do to get her (semi)wildly attracted to me again? As I mentioned in an earlier post in my last thread, Saturday night we "re-consummated" our marriage, and I felt her really, honestly overflow with emotion. Even in our interactions up til now, she is far more attracted to me than she has been in quite some time. But, I know that really is kind of a passing phase and "normal" life will eventually need to settle back in. I just don't want her to have a need ever again outside of our marriage..because another go-around like this would be an end-all disaster for us both I am sure.

So, how does a guy "get" sexy and irresistable to his wife again after somehting like this without blatantly looking like an idiot pumping iron on a beach trying to show off to all the bikini-clad girls?

Thoughts?

Well ......

First you get through the healing part of what's going on now. She's going to need that and so are you.

Two books I'd strongly recommend - Helen Fisher's Why We Love and David Scharch's Passionate Marriage -- in that order.

Any news on how things went this morning?

P

Not yet. I received a couple of emails from her, just about typical day to day stuff. But, she did some off as "annoyed" by the room she was working in today at the hospital...mentioned "hating that room", then lambasting a tech for doing something wrong and using a harsh expletive to describe something else about her morning. So, I get the sense that her stress level is highly elevated.
Knowing that Mr. Wonderful would have met her soon upon her arrival, I don't know if she chose that moment to speak to him, or if she were waiting until around her lunch hour to get it done. Maybe I'm reading too far into it, but just the way she came off sounds to me as if she hadn't done it yet and was getting nervous and irritated that she needed to. Obviously if she hadn't, he would be waiting to run off to lunch with her as usual to do whatever in God's name it is they did normally at that time.

On healing, yes I understand that as well. But, I have never been much of subtle person, so I am trying to be as calm and collected as I can be. I offered her my assistance through her "break-up"..pardon me while I vomit on my shoes...in any way I can. Call it, "grinning and bearing through the worst $%^$ sandwich I've ever been force fed in my life", if you will, but I am handlingly this gracefully on the outside. Inside...yeah well...meybe meds aren't the worst option after all.

Sidenote: She thinks that her friend will accept this news well and move on as he is "an adult", as she put it. Being a man and knowing how men can think, I believe that he will "up the ante" so to speak and really pour it on, maybe from a more subtle angle. I mean, the guy has been married for 10 years and three young girls at home and a very attractive wife, and he is ready to throw all that away today if my wife agreed to run off with him. I think that my wife's read on this one is WAY off.

Also, how should I approach the subject of the conversation tonight if it isn't initially offered to me? A simple, "So how did it go today"?, or should I be more firm and direct?

quote:

A simple, "So how did it go today"?, or should I be more firm and direct?

I think, "How did it go today," is pretty firm and direct.

I wonder if the annoyance or what I call feeling uncomfortable in her skin isn't because she *did* have that conversation with him. I would expect her to be angry, hurting, sad, emotionally exhausted, raw, ambivalent, and really not so much in the mood for any kind of exertion.

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, will be to be supportive and gentle. That does not mean hovering or obsequious. It means staying in the background and letting her process her day.

Yes, by, all means ask. Validate, validate, validate. No matter what she says, validate. Normalize ("Yes, I can see how it would feel that way. I am so sorry," is normalizing and validating.) Then ask if there is anything she needs from you. Perhaps a cup of tea or time alone. If it's time alone -- give it to her.

She may need to cry. If she wants to do that alone then let her. If she wants to be held and comforted then do that. If you want to move past today then it's important she gets this out of her system.

Now about OM. I suspect you are absolutely correct. I think a no contact **letter** to him, from both of you, would be a really good idea. After that we'll need to keep an eye out for renewed contact.

Hang in there...

P

Sound advice. I plan to gratiously accept my mission, without question. I am just hoping that through her grief she can try to understand that mine is probably tenfold right now.

Also, our next session with our therapist is tomorrow (for which I am greatly excited). Although I do believe I can move past this OM issue, I was left with questions in my head that began lingering after last week's meeting:

My wife had maintained all along that there had been no physical contact between her and her friend. However, once she broke down in the end and admitted that my suspicions that it was more than a friendship were correct, she still siad they had never slept together. I was so relieved by that statement that it never occured to me that my mond was already beginning to process every other sexual act known to man and animal that could have taken place. She said verbatim, "We never slept together, but it wasn't for lack of him trying, because he has tried. I just couldn't do it".

Now, do you think it is within my right to ask exactly what has actually transpired once again in the physical sense. I'm afraid if I don't get that validation that it will always set in the back of my mind and eat away at it. On the flip side, knowing that I could potentially be asking to take a hammer between the eyes, I am trying to get myself to a place of acceptance if my fears are validated. That may mean I need to withdraw and go out in the woods and chop a tree down with my bare hands and no axe, I'm unsure...but I really want ALL the cards out on the table so that I can process everything with nothing left to the imagination.

On a better note, I have received a couple of emails from her since last post and she seems like herself..joking, playful but still mentioning that her overall day is no better. Huh.

Hi Dante...

I'm glad you are conversing with Penny as she is very knowledgeable in this area.

Some thoughts that I have on how to proceed would be very carefully.

I think its okay to ask what transpired..It's going to be a necessary part of your healing and a necessary part for the marriage to become whole again. I think though..not tonight. You may want to assure her that you aren't going anywhere and you love her with all you've got and leave it at that tonight.

I'm wondering (and I'll let Penny answer this)..if it should be brought up at the next session.

I can say with conviction as scared as you are to hear of anything, thats about how scared she'll be to tell you.

And both of you will react with upset to her telling and your receiving the news...no matter how benign or not it might be. Having a therapist there to mediate might not be a bad idea...

And..be prepared Dante..that she may chicken out.

Loui

quote:

Originally posted by dante:
I am just hoping that through her grief she can try to understand that mine is probably tenfold right now.

No, she probably can't understand the level of your grieving. She got a lot on her plate. How are you doing working through your hurt? Do you have some support of friends/family?

quote:

On a better note, I have received a couple of emails from her since last post and she seems like herself..joking, playful but still mentioning that her overall day is no better. Huh.

How did you respond?

HoFS

quote:

How did you respond?

We communicated back and forth throughout the day after that email via email, and I responded very well. I poured on my signature funny, and from what she told me, I had her (and a few of her coworkers) in tears cracking up. I can be witty when I'm not going out of my mind with near insanity, it's part of my charm I guess :-\

To Louie:

I don't plan to ask for the gory details of the relationship until we are in session. I know my wife would be very uncomfortable right now discussing that anywhere but, and honestly so would I. I wouldn't be too surprised if she did chicken out on divulging the entire truth of their interactions; what she has told me ais a virtual life-changing breakthrough for her as it is. She has never been able to be honset in her life with anyone, not even herself it would seem.

The telltale for me that something not-sp-pretty for me transpired between them was the admission of "I love you with all my heart but I don't know if I am in love with you anymore". That one told me more than I needed to know at the time. Yeah, you still love me at a level you're not aware of, that is why you want this to work out and you want to be a "good" wife..but your brain is scrambled and whatever secual interactions you had with Mr. Perfecto, even if it were just kissing, has made you unaware of the years of Lust, Romance, passion, Bonding, Togetherness and now Family that we've worked so hard to achieve. Way to go human brain.

So..... how did it go yesterday?

Also, I would echo what HoFS says. Grief is so loud that the person grieving can't hear anyone else. Actually, all the emotions you're dealing with are pretty much in that same 120 decibel range. It's no fun at all.

So you asked about the possibility of her being wildly attractive to you. I agree with Penny that there is some major healing needed. And... big big AND .... the most attractive thing in the world (to a heterosexual woman) is a man who is confident in his own sexuality. Not just pretending. The kind of man who can take a raging teenage boy and NOT have a fight with him, because that man knows he doesn't need to prove a darned thing to that little (or big) pipsqueak. The kind of man who can take a woman's entirely ungrounded energy and focus it thoroughly.

Now, I don't know what your wife is like, and I don't know what floats her boat. But I do know that Schnarch's book has answers to your questions that will take you by the shoulders and shake you 'til your head rattles. Once you settle back down, you'll find you've learned a -lot-. If you're asking these questions, you're probably ready for the answers.

Speaking of answers and being ready for them, yes, ask every question you need to ask. Do it with the therapist there, and if the therapist questions it, have her look up Peggy Vaughan's research on honesty. What you and your wife need to know is that clear, detailed honesty, even if it's the most painful thing she does, will help both of you more than you can ever know.

Oh, and I know you're calling your wife's affair partner the most polite names you can think of. It's still name-calling, though, so I think you might want to stop.

quote:

Oh, and I know you're calling your wife's affair partner the most polite names you can think of. It's still name-calling, though, so I think you might want to stop.

quote:

little (or big) pipsqueak.

(sigh) Shame, I was quite enjoying some of those names...

Hi everyone

Sorry I haven't responded back in a couple of days. Busy life. Anywho...updates:

My wife did in fact confront *INSERT DERAGOTORY NAME HERE* (LOL) on Wednesday. He made the PERFECT comment back to her telling him that she wanted nothing to do with him any longer romantically or anything other than professionally as she loved me and her family and wanted to fix things between us. He said to her, "It's just your pregnancy hormones, baby. You know you can't resist me".

AAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! And the bomb goes BOOM! And the lights came back on upstairs, and the fog lifted, and just like that, The Magic Was Gone. She said at that moment she became extremely angry and once she calmed down she saw him for what he really is: a manipulator, a liar, a cheat and a selfish *expletive* who cares only about himself and trying to get into the pants of another man's pregnant wife.

It was very hard to hold back the ear to ear grin and especially the desire to say, "What the ^%&^$ else did you think he was, a knight in shining armour that would be everything you once thought I was but this time it would last for an eternity"? But, I didn't. But I did think it, big time.

After that our session went very well and we got alot out on the table, and I started digging into what needs she felt I wasn't meeting. I actually had figured them out pretty well after doing some serious soul searching over the last couple of weeks, but I wanted her to expand and validate that I was on target and doing much better. I am

We have every intention of continuing conseling weekly for lord knows how long..probably until it finally breaks the bank...haha, It has been astonishing thusfar and an invaluable asset that I am certain has saved us from imminent divorce.

Over the last week I have seen the girl that I married again, and I am sure vice versa..we just really need to work to keep that going for the next 30-40 years.

dante,

Thanks for the update. It sounds wonderful. There will still be some very difficult times and the OM may try to initiate contact again. Your own healing will help you through those times. Let the hard but very rewarding work begin! And just wait until you realize you have some compassion for the OM. Talk about growth.

HoFS

quote:

And just wait until you realize you have some compassion for the OM.

Yeah...that honestly wont happen. I'm all about healing and a great marriage, but for him...well, I believe in karma and come-upence. fading away is sufficient.

I'm sure he will try to reconnect as they do work together. But, as long as my wife has her blinders off and is focused on what she says she wants to do, I have no worries. I'm letting her have the ball to run with and backing out of that part. It is better for EVERYONE involved that I not handle that situation at all.

But thank you, and yes so far very good things coming true. We've reconnected to the point that she once again flirts all day with me through email and IM while we are at work. Man, this feels so good again...I almost forgotten how much I love her.

quote:

"It's just your pregnancy hormones, baby. You know you can't resist me"

I don't know if it's innapropriate to laugh at that, but what an absolute classic. Hehehe. Definitely the best way he could help you two work on your marriage!

Dante...

I'm so glad your wife is becoming less fog ridden and more reality based. I'm very happy that she's recommitting to the marriage.

I would suggest a these things as insurance:

That you both together write a letter of N/C. Now I understand since she works with him that may be difficult so I'm wondering a few things.

1. can she either quit that job and look for another
2. Can she relocate to another office or at least transfer to a different dept.
3. can she limit how much interaction she has with him within her work environment.

Its not that I don't trust her. I don't trust the situation in general. Its usually not a good idea to be in close proximity to someone you have had any kind of affair with. Whether or not there is no chance of it starting up again...generally speaking the bigger the break/distance, the better.

Loui

Loui..

In the immediate she can't transfer or leave, but next month she moves to a new wing of the hospital and the OM is out of sight and (hopefully) out of mind. I would never ask her to quit this position as she has worked very hard to get where she is at (and has the student debt to prove it, lol).

We've enjoyed another great weekend together. Last night for her father's 60th birthday we broke the news that she's pregnant again, so the family had a great time celebrating that.

I'm looking forward to she and I really getting into personal needs soon. The more she can really spell out for me, the better. I may be handsome (or so she says , but i am still descended from knuckle dragging cavemen..so you know, I can always use the help.

[quote="mags"]I don't know if it's innapropriate to laugh at that, but what an absolute classic. Hehehe. Definitely the best way he could help you two work on your marriage![/quote]

I smiled as soon as she told me what he said. I KNEW he had just handed me a HUGE gift. I laugh everytime I picture that one in my head.

quote:

, but i am still descended from knuckle dragging cavemen..so you know

I remember when Joe (1Niceguy) mentioned this as well.

As long as you are able to at least get the knuckles and inch or two off the ground, you should be fine.

And congrats on the news! What an excellent opportunity for you both to focus on each other and a new bebe!!

Loui

GS - I half agree with you and half not. In my current situation - having 'gotten foggy' for somebody who I also admire as a person - you would be right. He could say a lot of stupid things and however clear I felt about it at the time, I would end up forgiving him because I would end up realising/rationalising that he wasn't as much of an ***hole as the statement suggested. Same as happens with my H when I know he's been a [whatever] at that moment but that he's not a [whatever] in general.

However there's also times when I've fallen for people I didn't admire as a person. I usually admired something about them, and the rest was pure chemical stuff. Never acted on these, so arguably the chemical pull was weaker.
But in those situations, there were times when I had a bolt of lighting clarity from something they said or did or that I realised, that would literally lift the fog, and the magic was gone. It was like a switch flicked, and I'd never think of them in that way again. I'd see what a fool I'd been, and be incredibly embarassed that I ever had a crush on them at all.

So I don't think it's impossible. I think both can be possible - you can get a moment of clarity and reverse it later. Or you can get one and it just sticks, and you're done.