My husband, in my opinion, has been unfaithful to me. He did not actually sleep with anyone. He did however do all of the following over the last 2 1/2 years.
*He set up two separate dating profiles, on singles websites. (one six months after marrying me and one about 3 months ago.)

*He calls and texts girls that I don't know all the time on the basis of "we're just friends" and invites them to meet him at the bars when I am not going with him.

*He has planned and tried to pull of having a hot tub party at his parents house for his 23rd birthday, with random girls from Myspace and his single buddy from across the street. His parents were out of town and I was going to be at work.

*He has propositioned a girl we both knew for sex and told her and another friend of ours that he was "looking elsewhere".

*He gets girls phone numbers when he goes places without me and I have found them in his wallet repeatedly.

There are other issues too, but these are the ones that cause me to feel betrayed. I am not sure I could be any more angry or hurt if he had actually slept with someone. However he has repeatedly said that he "didn't sleep with anyone" as if that means that it isn't really that bad. Like all the other things aren't being unfaithful too. I feel like people think that I am overreacting and being too hard on him...becuase after all he "didn't really cheat on me". So is what he has done actually infidelity or should I just let it go because he hasn't sealed the deal with anyone yet.

Hello Melissa, and welcome to SYMC.

There are so many red flags here, I don't know where to start.

Your husband is participating in activities that are leading him down a dangerous path for your marriage.

All of your asterisked points point to the fact that he is not being faithful to your relationship if he is indeed looking elsewhere.

The fact that he has not yet had sexual relations with someone else belies the point. He is actively seeking extramarital female companionship

An affair doesn't have to be sexual in nature to be dangerous to your marriage, many people have emotional affairs that also can undermine a marriage.

Care to elaborate on what the "other issues" are?

g-man

Other issues include that he hasn't come clean to his family about anywhere near all of the things he has done, though he says he has told them "everthing". He has really only told them about one incident for sure and has been beating around the bush about the rest.
Also he spends money that we don't have, or that we were supposed be saving with out telling me. He is selfish and expects to get exactly what he wants and he will beg, fight, and whine until he gets it. He guilt trips me all the time about everything. If he doesn't like what I am saying or is trying to get out of an arguement he pulls the whole "well I guess I am just a terrible husband" crap, so that I feel bad for being mad at him. He manipulates me until he gets what he wants, and most of the time he doesn't even realize that he is doing those things.

I know I sound like I am really being a *itch about him and saying all kinds of mean things, but really I am just being honest. For a long time I made excuses for him, and covered his faults becuase I love him, but I have realized that will not help him or me, or our relationship.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MelissaK24,

Good evening Melissa,
and welcome to SYMC.
I am sorry for the circumstances that have brought you to our village. Let me assure you, you have found your self in a good and safe place where you have the opportunity to learn and grow thru your present marital woes.

You have shared with us some very helpful information. Thank you.

I have a few more questions that may be of some help to us.

How long have you and your husband been married?
Is this the first marriage for you and your husband?
Are there any children?
Are either of you involved in individual therapy/counseling?
What about marriage counseling?


I agree with Gardenman. Your husband is involved in very risky behaviors for a person who is married.
And
I agree with you as well. It does no good, for anyone involved, for others to cover up for or make excuses for behaviors that are not ethical or responsible.

A word of caution, Melissa. We at SYMC are here with YOU and for YOU. There is no one who can change another person. Any changes a person does make in the learning about themselves and the world around them MUST come from with in them selves. In other words, neither you nor we can change your husband and his behaviors. What we can do here at SYMC is help you to grow and learn to become a stronger more compassionate person better able to work thru all that life throws your way, including the eventual ups and downs of marriage.

Hugs to you and your husband Melissa

Hypatia

Hi Melissa

I'm sorry you are in the situation you are in. You've found a good place.

quote:

So is what he has done actually infidelity or should I just let it go because he hasn't sealed the deal with anyone yet.

You seem pretty caught up in the definitions of infidelity and whether this qualifies - almost as if it has to be labelled as infidelity or cheating or unfaithful before you have the right to be upset about this.
But that isn't true. Your husband is doing stuff that is just not appropriate for a married - or even committed - person to do. Some might call it infidelity some might not - it doesn't matter. You have the right to be upset, regardless. (Sometimes a good test might be - would he be upset if it was you doing this stuff - I suspect the answer would be yes).

I don't think you are overreacting. And don't let anybody guilt you into feeling that - especially if they don't have the full story. As Gardenman says, it's not the sexual relationship that defines whether stuff is ok or not.

Good luck with this. I think you'll find a lot of help on this board.

Mags

Hi there, Melissa, and welcome to SYMC! I am so glad you found us early. And I really want to know whether you have kids, as well.

If you do not, I'm going to suggest that you immediately separate from your husband. NOT as a prelude to divorce, but because of the extremely risky behavior on his part. Frankly, what he's doing is dangerous to him, and also to you. I know that you love him and want to be married to him. And because you love him, I want you to refuse to participate in, be the victim of, or be anywhere near such dangerous and damaging behavior.

I'm also going to recommend that you go ahead and tell people you can get support from. Don't go blaring it from the housetops. But DO ask your parents, your favorite aunt.... whoever you trust. A pastor or minister is a good choice. Try to pick someone with a few gray hairs, as well as those who come to mind first. This is a situation lots of folks have dealt with, and the older ones seem to have a more deliberate and thoughtful approach to it. You want those who will support you -- and will support your marriage as well. You want someone who will not sacrifice your safety -- and won't sacrifice your marriage for less than your safety. It's a tough, tough balance.

I'm also going to suggest that you take a look at the information over at Recovery Nation. Your husband's behaviors MAY just be the acting out of a "bad boy" who doesn't realize he's married. Or they may be the tips of a much more difficult iceberg.

Hypatia,
In answer to your questions, my husband and I have been married three years. This is a first marriage for both of us. We got married at 21 and we are now both 24. We do have one child, a sweet little boy, who will be one in about two weeks. We are in marriage counseling. We have had two sessions so far. I work at a church, as a secretary, and I have had a number of conversations with the Pastor, so while I wouldn't consider that individual counseling it has helped me to work through some thoughts and feelings in a safe place. We are currently separated. I have been dealing with these issues most of our marriage, without support, while staying in the household. When I found the most recent dating profile I simply could not handle any more. I called my mother and moved back in with my parents about a month ago. Up to that point I had not shared our difficulties with anyone for fear that they would judge or dislike my husband. I didn't want that, but I simply couldn't handle it any longer without some distance to put things in perspective. I am grateful that I have found this place, I believe that it will help me immensely.

Mags,
I am a bit overly interested in the actual definition of what it going on here. One reason is that my husband keeps saying that he hasn't slept with anyone, as if that minimizes the things he has done. Another is that I am an incredibly analytical person, and in order to get a handle on the situation it has helped me to try to "define" it. And yes, I sometimes do feel guilty for being angry, when I have only some websites and texts messages to be angry over. It seems trivial to me at times, when I compare to what he could have done. But I am still upset over it, so I know that I must deal with that regardless of what other people think. I know I don't have to defend my feelings to other people, but I still feel like I need to be ready to do so, if that makes any sense.

Thank you all for your responses. I hope to be able to give positive updates very soon.

One other question, for those that have been in similar situations, what things did you do in order to begin to trust your spouse again? Were there specific things that you asked your spouse to do? At what point did you move back into the home?

Okay so that was three questions, sorry, but I am trying to formulate a plan, and see if my requests are reasonable or not.

Thank you all so much for your help.

Hey Melissa...

It sounds like you have taken some good steps in order to regain some balance in your situation. That is a good thing!!

There's a few things here that definitely are red flags. Minimizing the situation as it were when caught and continuing with the behavior, even while in counseling.

I would hesitate on calling these emotional affairs, because he is not "with" any one person. J hinted at something a little more complicated and I tend to agree with her. The behaviors here indicate more along the lines of an addiction to the "rush" of dating. You know that tingly feeling one gets at the beginning of a relationship.

Have you checked out Recovery Nation yet? I highly agree with J on that one.

There are a number of steps your H would have to follow in order for you to realistically begin to trust. But also there are boundaries you would need to set up for yourself and your family in order for you to trust yourself in this situation. I think for right now you and your son should sit tight where you are. In a safe environment. Though I am curious, where is your H living? and how often do you and your son talk or see him? And as much as I know you'd like to believe him when he says he hasn't "done" anything.. I would be highly suspect. How can you be 100% sure about that, his word to you aside... You may want to get yourself tested for STD's.. just for safety's sake.

So before we start with boundaries and suggestions...

What are some of the things the counselor and pastor have suggested to you and to him? and has he been able to follow any of those?

Loui

Loui,
H is living in our home. I talk to him or txt him daily. DS stays with him three nights of the week. I didn't feel right excluding him from seeing our son and that schedule has worked out pretty well for us so far.

As far as what the counselor and my pastor have said that he should do there really hasn't been much. Mostly that he needs to come completely clean with me and not dance around the issue anymore. Also that he needs to stop the behaviors that have led us here, like going to the bar, contacting any females that I do not know or approve of. He seems to be doing most of that. He did go to the bar one night with his buddies before we discussed directly that it was unacceptable behavior at this time. I don't know for sure if he is doing these things because he and I aren't living together right now.
Some of the things that I want to request that he do are:
1. have an STD test performed
2. take a budgeting class
3. tell his parents the whole truth about our situation. and I want to be there for the conversation.
4. I want him to go to church faithfully
5. I plan to get some kind of software that will log where he goes on the internet and what he types. Something that he can't erase without my password. Does anyone know of anything like this?
6.I want to call the phone company and get an itemized statment that I can review each month to check his contacts.
7. I want his passwords to any email accounts and I want access to every website he logs into.

This is really all I have come up with so far, and it seems like there should be more. Not that I am trying to punish him, but there should be something more that he should need to do right? Or am I being too hard on him?

quote:

H is living in our home

quote:

I don't know for sure if he is doing these things because he and I aren't living together right now.

OK,I'm confused about the living arrangements with your H.


Melissa,

I like your list of things that you want your H to comply with.

The thing is...

He needs to WANT to make the effort from within himself to do it. To prove his openness and honesty to you.

quote:

Or am I being too hard on him?

Absolutely NOT!!

And just one thing to keep in mind whenever questioning are you being too hard? Would you do any of those things? If not.. then no.. you are being completely reasonable.

its not a matter of trying to "punish" him at all. Its a matter of creating safe boundaries within your relationship and responsible behavior. There needs to be a realization for him that he has a problem before there will be any kind of willingness to follow thru.

If he isn't ready to do that and his actions don't match his words then you're just spinning your wheels. So first things first is to really concentrate on what you can and should do.

I believe you need to speak with a counselor who has dealt with this sort of behavior.. cause its all well and good to tell him what he needs to do but there are things that you need to do (or not do) as well.

Would you consider calling Penny Tupy? She's our fearless leader here and has much experience in this arena.

You can read up about her here

I really think this would be a very beneficial step in the right direction for you.


Loui

Sorry about the confusion of our living situation, Gardenman. I have moved out to live with my parents for the time being and he is still living in our home.

Hi Melissa,

It's a difficult situation that brought you here, but that's how we all got here.

Your list of requests is a good start, can you discuss this with your marriage councelor?

Here is a review of software to track internet activity: Monitoring Advisor

The only item on your list that I would question, is #3. He is an adult with a family, not a child anymore. Being made to feel like he has to still answer to his parent's might make him more resistant to opening up to you.

Good luck and keep posting.

Making a better life, one day at a time!

Hi again, Melissa. I'm so glad you're already separated. That can be so very difficult -- and yet necessary.

You're headed in the right direction with things that you'd like him to do. But ... and this is a big one. BUT.

None of that matters if there is no internal shift. Without the internal shift, he could meet your criteria precisely and still cause all kinds of problems. Or he could give lip-service to your criteria but continue acting out every chance he gets.

So what's he willing to do to face his internal demons? When he's ready to tell -you- what he's willing to do, then he might be ready to start actually doing it.

Another question for you. What other substances does he use? Computer, porn, tobacco, drugs, chocolate, alcohol, toys, shopping, gambling and a host of others -- which of these are more important to him than the people around him? Which are more important than paying the rent or the other bills?

Nice Guy,

I understand why you would think that making him tell his parents would make him feel like a child being punished, but I don't want this as a punishment for him, but as anothe avenue of honesty and accountability.

The reason that I am adamant about him disclosing fully to his parents is that he lied to them. He told them that he did not do the things he has done. He owes them an explanation and an apology. Plus I am done covering for him. If it comes up some time later in life I don't want to have to lie for him or try to remember which parts he left out. He tried to have an illicit meeting **in thier home** and he needs to be honest about that with them.

I understand he is a grown man, but as a grown man I feel that he needs to learn to speak the truth. His family will still love him, and it will go a long way to me feeling like I have help in holding him accountable.

Hey Melissa..

I understand your reasons for wanting accountability towards his parents. And also for your not covering for him anymore.

That though.. is really aside the point for now. The first thing is accountability to himself and to you. The next is to his family. You know kinda one thing at a time.

The first is accountability to himself. Like J asked "So what's he willing to do to face his internal demons?"

That is the first thing that will need to be addressed before anything else here can be. Not that everything else isn't important... but none of it is even worth talking about if he's unable to do that.

Will you consider calling Penny and talking to her about what you can and should do for yourself and your marriage?

Loui

Well as far as contacting Penny, I am sure that she is wonderful, but we are currently seeing a local counselor that we both feel is on the same page as we are. He said in the beginning that he would not tell us whether to get a divorce or stay married, but that since our goal was to work this out that is the direction that we would go, and the direction he agreed with. If however one or both of us was to decide that divorce was the only option he would discuss it with us to make sure we were making a well thought out choice and support us in that choice as well. He is very good, and I think he meets many if not all the guidelines listed by Penny of a good marriage counselor. Should the need ever arise I may still contact Penny.

My next question is how do we move on to the steps he should take. He seems to be looking to me for guidance in what I want him to do to make things right. I know somethings, obviously, but other than what I have listed previously I am fumbling here. In a way I want him to step up and give me a list of things that he is going to do, and not have it just be superficial things. I want it to be real, long lasting change. I just don't know how to stop looking at everything he does as a way to manipulate the situation and me.

quote:

My next question is how do we move on to the steps he should take.

1. Both of you be good listeners.

2. When you talk about "things", be respectful of each other and try to avoid accusatory, inflammatory or judgmental overtones. If that happens, break off the talks and walk away until cooler heads prevail.

3. Don't forget to get proper nutrition, sleep and remember to strive for BALANCE in your life, even though it certainly doesn't seem that way to you right now, which is completely normal.

4. You are probably going to bear the brunt of most of the work right now, that's usually the way it works out. Be strong and know it can work out in the end if you work hard to make it happen.

5. That list you want from him? He might or might not be in a frame of mind to present that to you right now. Baby steps. It can be a long road ahead in recovery.

Patience...

Compassion...

Respect...

Peace...

Gardenman

6. Ask him to come here and start telling his story. We'll challenge him as much as we challenge you. We're gentle, kind, compassionate, err, hardbutts.

quote:

The only item on your list that I would question, is #3.

For me I would also question #4. I'm not sure what it's supposed to acheive, but trust me plenty of people are quite able to go to church AND cheat. Sometimes with people at church. So I'm not sure it's the preventive measure you might think it is - attending church will not make someone believe something they don't believe. And it does seem like the sort of demand one could place on your child but not a grown adult - especially without having some outcome in mind that it would acheive. I don't think inflicting one person's religious beliefs on the other is really going to address the core problem.

But this is a personal opinion - I'm not saying it's right. It just seems to be confusing the issue between preventing behaviour that harms your marriage vs. controlling his life. I'm not sure how him not going to church adversely affects your marriage, but I'd think you want to stay clear of issues that are about control rather than honesty and openness.