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The Village at SYMC The Village at SYMC Infidelity Is it really infidelity?|
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Moderator |
OK, lets try this exercise...
Great! You are devoted to your marriage and your husband
Excellent work! Not everyone gets the chance to fulfill a college education.
Not a bad place to be in this economy, employed that is.
Noble, rewarding in itself
Shows a great character trait in you.
Join the club  |
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Founding Member / Pioneer Villager |
Melissa,
Every single one of us is "susceptible" to certain dysfunctions....and varying degrees of those dysfunctions. Most of us can see ourselves (and everyone we know) in the symptoms on any list whether it's heart disease or narcissism. As old as I am....I've managed to scare the daylights out of myself after reading some of this stuff. It's important to learn to differentiate between a destructive pattern and isolated behaviors and symptoms. The key....is not whether you can identify yourself or your spouse in these lists....but whether your/his level of dysfunction (because let's face it....we're all a little dysfunctional) is consistent and destructive. Most people function with low levels of dysfunction of some kind. Like you, I'm a bit of control freak....but not to the extent that I become obsessive or destructive. I'm a little codependent....so I have to be careful to keep on top of, and balance, my own proclivities and quirks. But you won't find a more highly functioning individual (I guess I'm a little narcissistic too LOL). I am deeply responsible and faithful....and my plate is full....so I have to be. Sometimes I have to "step back" and recalibrate....you probably will too....but that doesn't mean you're unhealthy....only that we all have our attributes to "watch" and tend. You sound pretty healthy to me....in fact....wise beyond your years. The stuff you've described sounds like you have a tendency towards codependency (so watch out for that)....but guess what?....everybody who loves somebody has a tendency towards codependency....and that's no lie. The litmus test is whether you let that part of you destroy your own life happiness, or the life of your child.....and I'm not seeing that at all in your actions/expressions. Part of your fear arises from your view of addictive and dysfunctional behavior. You see those things as bad, weak and justification for poor behavior. Perhaps it would help if you could put that into a religious perspective....we are all sinners....imperfect....and we need help from God to overcome our human nature.....we cannot do it alone. That doesn't give us license to keep doing bad things....just a recognition that we cannot do it alone. I have a daughter who is exactly your age. She married last year and is pregnant for her first child. Her husband is gone alot, and we spend alot of time together....it's given me a different perspective on things like myspace and porn....because it is your generation who is living with a different tolerance for these things.....and I'm sorry to say....not in a good way. The availability of "connections" created by Internet access, has created an artificially high level of tolerance and disensitivity to things that are incredibly destructive to relationships and healthy sexuality. She didn't have the same aversion to porn or worries about sexual addiction that I'd developed from all of my studies....but unfortunately....she learned first hand what many young women are beginning to find out....that "access" is a double edged sword. On the one hand....you are increasingly connected to the world....and on the other....those connections can begin to override healthy relationships in a BIG way. First....let me say something about infidelity...and specifically "flirting" (which isn't often seen as "so bad"). What is flirting? Is there really a way to separate flirting from sex? Are they connected in some way? Is flirting....in and of itself....infidelity? I say YES. By definition "flirting"
Flirting is ALWAYS sexual. How do I know this? Well it's easy really....do you flirt with your brother? Or your son? Or your grandfather? Why not? Flirting implies intimacy and a lack of boundaries/a need for sexual attention and ego stroking....and when a person is married....it destroys marital boundaries and the security within those boundaries. It is a betrayal of covenants and vows that are an inherent part of intimacy and trust. When you marry someone....you don't simply promise to keep from having intercourse with someone else....you promise to "forsake (abandon/desert) all others, keep yourself only unto him/her, for as long as you both shall live". In fact....sexuality is not mentioned....because intimacy is SO MUCH more than sexuality. Your husband has a need to connect with other women. He's demonstrated a pattern of pursuit and dishonesty. I suspect he's had more involvement than he admits to....but whether he has or not....you will have to respond as though this is serious....because even in it's most benign form....it IS serious to your relationship. Perhaps he is a sexual addict....or perhaps he is too young to make the kind of commitment that defines a healthy marriage....either way....you're in the same spot. The people who have told you that you have no control over him....are correct. He must learn and demonstrate SELF control....or he will continue to harm you despite all efforts you make to "get" him to do the right thing. As long he believes he didn't really cheat on you.....the likelihood that he will make a healthy shift in judgement is unlikely. He's demonstrating immaturity and lack of readiness on many fronts. You see those things manifested in the finances, dishonesty, as well as the lack of marital boundaries. But you can't control him, and no list of accountability will be sufficient substition for his own lack of self control. When my husband showed a similar lack of conscience and restraint.....I also put together a list of accountability....and one of them was regular attendance at church. I included that because I felt that it was essential in helping to develop the necessary evolution of conscience that he needed to be faithful both to God and to me. One thing I put on my list....that I believe goes hand in hand with that....was community service. It is through dealing with people who are less fortunate....that I've seen my husband grow the most as a person. It takes the focus OFF of self and creates compassion and conscience. My husband has led a charmed life....where the things he has....have come easily to him. I have seen....and I hear in the description of your husband....a sense of "entitlement" that encourages him to live as though the rules don't apply to him. You can't make him who you want him to be....but you will know when he wants to be the man you love. When that happens....you won't have to think about things to add to that list....because he will be the one MAKING the list and demonstating that he is that man. You've taken some very positive steps that protect you....you've moved home, gone into counseling....let those things work. Rather than being hyperfocussed on what he's doing....think about what you need to do. You have the opportunity to lead the way....but you can't make him follow. I know someone who says "be the lighthouse"....and I love that analogy. What are your own behaviors that need exploration and change? How can you feed his spirit without tolerating his destructive choices? Don't wait for anyone to bring you flowers. Plant your own garden.  |
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Founding Member / Pioneer Villager SYMC Moderator |
Good Morning Melissa
How are you and your family ding this morning?  Hypatia courage = fear + action |
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Villager |
To everyone that has reassured me that I am not any more dysfunctional than anybody else: thank you very much. I know logically that dysfunction is a fact of life. I know that being a little bit crazy is okay, but I just let it overwhelm me a little bit. I started to think that maybe if I could fix me then maybe my marriage would be good again. Maybe all my dysfunctions caused our problems, but then I felt like there is no way I can fix it all. Some things just don't change. I kind of lost it, panicked about how could I possibly have let my own dysfunction ruin everything...I am not sure any of this makes any sense. I am still kind of fuzzy in the head from all my worry and sadness and anger and every other emotion that I am tired of feeling. Do you ever stop feeling angry, and sad and perpetually lost? Will that feeling ever go away? I feel like I am in a fog that never lifts and there is always a little bit of drag in my brain. My thought are slowed down by the constant loop running in my head of all the crappy things that I am trying to forget about. It is always there and I just want it to go away, even just for a little bit. Why won't it go away?
On a good note my little boy is happy, healthy and beautiful as always. I was reading a post somewhere on here about happy places and finding your sanctuary. I found it this weekend. Well, really I always had it, I just realized it this weekend. My sanctuary is my little boy's big blue eyes, surrounded by his laughter, running my fingers through his little blond curls. That is where I always feel calm, no matter what is going on in my life. The problem is that when he goes to sleep or I leave for work all the racing thoughts about my current situation rush back. I need to find another sanctuary for when I am without my boy. It's out there, I am sure of it, I just need to look for it. |
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SYMC Head Moderator Board of Advisors |
Actually.. the first place to start in fixing your marriage IS in fixing yourself. Marriage is a two way street.. a partnership. No one person can cause all the problems and no one person fix them all either. And since, the only person you can control is you.. its a great place to start. One of the things we tell everybody here is how important it is to take care of oneself and do things for you. One of the first things I did was focus on something I had let go of. Which was my artwork. I started making time for that. As well as going to the gym. Things that help me focus more on stuff other than him. so? When do you go to see the counselor? Loui  "Everything's changed in a matter of minutes, nothing was saved in time. All of my old world and everything in it is hard to find, but they never...never were mine" "Before you knew me, an Angel came to me. I wrestled him down to the ground. He said he could cure me I said that don't worry me now." |
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Villager |
We are going back to the counselor on Wednesday. Sadly I am not sure that it will do any good. I just found more new contact with more new women that I don't know. He is begging me to forgive him, and he is saying how he loves me and misses me. And all at the same time he is sending messages inviting girls to OUR HOUSE!!! He is telling people that I left and he figures I am not coming back, and that he is single! I don't think I can do this anymore. This has been going on for two years and I have been begging him to stop. He won't even try to stop. I give up. I just don't have the energy for this anymore.
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Villager |
Oh no.
Does he know about the recovery nation site? More and more it sounds like he has an addiction. He might even be releived to know that (doesn't let him off the hook fixing it, but he might be as mystified by his behaviour as you are). I'm so sorry you are going through this. Make sure to look after yourself, you will need all the strength you can get, whichever way things go.  |
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Villager |
I was going to bring it up in counseling on Wednesday that he should visit Recovery Nation. Now, I just don't care anymore. I just can't believe that he isn't even trying. He lied to be about when he set up this new account and said that he deleted it last night after I confronted him about it, but when I checked this morning his account is still there. He isn't even working on this, just lying and schemeing ways to get me to move back in while still getting his jollies on the side. No wonder I was skeptical about his "changes". There were none, and in my gut and heart I knew it. How much longer will this break my heart?
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SYMC Founder Coach |
Hi Melissa - welcome to symc. I am so sorry you are dealing with this. And I apologize for not popping in sooner. Your husband has so many of the red flags for addiction I'd be hard to convince that he is not an addict. Unfortunately - the word addiction has so much emotional baggage attached to it it's really difficult to have a sane and compassionate conversation about it ...... the concept of addiction and what you, as a partner, need to do to maintain your own values and boundaries. You raise some really good questions and I want to address them. First -- your quote above. I cannot emphasize how utterly important it is that your professional help comes from someone who understands addiction AND who understands how that dynamic works in a marriage. Those people are *very* difficult to come by. If your counselor has not laid out all the warning signs and suggested this is what you're dealing with --- he's not one of those rare professionals. He might be great at what he does – but what he does is not addiction. Why is it so important? I can't tell you how many couples I've worked with who have stories similar to yours and who have spent years (yes .... years ...) in therapy and marriage counseling going down garden paths working on "communication issues", "assertiveness", and "learning to appreciate your differences." Not that those things aren't good for a marriage --- but they will not solve a single problem in your marriage if there is an active addiction (or affair for that matter). If you want to maintain your sanity -- and you want to give your marriage the best chance at survival -- *you* are going to need to be the strongest advocate for your marriage AND you are going to need to get educated in order to do that. My husband and I just fired yet another therapist -- this one supposedly well qualified in addiction (had all the right letters after his name) and in marriage therapy .... and yet he was suggesting things that were shockingly harmful both in terms of addiction recovery and marriage. *You* really have to be educated and be the advocate. I see several people have recommended Recovery Nation and that you've been there. Jon does wonderful work. If you have not started on the partner exercises I really encourage you to do so. Jon is one of the few I've encountered who really get it. You will also find it very helpful to do the Values exercises I have posted - here Now - about your concerns that identifying as an addict will somehow give your husband permission to continue to act out. It's a very common misconception. So let's talk about that. Addiction is not so much about behavior as it is about underlying beliefs. Painful beliefs about self and the world around us -- beliefs that color every interaction. Addiction is a persisent distorted reality that is so painful the addict uses some substance or behavior as a way to distract from (or, escape) the pain. These toxic core hurts/beliefs go something like this: I am basically a bad unworthy person, no one would love me the way I am (and therefore it is unsafe to get too close to anyone), since no one could ever really love my most important needs will never be met -- and -- my most important need is [fill in the blank with the substance of choice] (because it soothes my terror, anxiety, and pain). We recognize addiction not just by the substance use -- in your case all the things you've described in terms of (almost desperately) running after lots and lots of women but also by other more subtle signs - Grandiosity: I'm better, worse, or somehow different from everyone else. Everyone else is stupid. Everyone else knows more than I do. Isolation: Can't ask for help, no one else knows how to do it, I'm very independent. Paranoia: This shows up in sooo many ways it's hard to know where to start. From thinking every kid who works at convenience stores will short change you to being afraid to invest in a retirement plan. Paranoia is really an extension of grandiosity and isolation. People with addictions tend to have anger issues -- it's another way to temporarily soothe the anxiety and terror -- and it's a way to keep others from digging too deeply into what they're doing. I find that most addicts I've known or worked with are exceedingly charming -- another way to keep others from seeing through the facade. They are also amazingly brilliant liars. I used to think I could tell if I was being lied to. Now I know better. I've learned to look for congruent actions/behavior and to discount the words. Ok - so that's a mini crash course in addiction -- what about your concern that it gives him permission? Good question. When we talk about addicts have no control over their addiction what we mean is they have no control over whether or not they are an addict. Just like if your husband had diabetes or cancer or heart disease .... he doesn't really get to choose whether or not he has it. BUT -- and this is important -- we always have control over our actions. So -- if I have diabetes and I choose to eat nothing but white flour and sugar I'm gonna be pretty darn sick. I need to put a framework in place that helps me make good, sound, ethical choices about my diet and lifestyle in order to protect myself and those around me from the ravaging effects of my disease. Addiction is exactly the same. If one has an addiction then that person needs to create a framework in order to make good, sound, ethical decisions about how to navigate life in order to protect oneself and the people around him. In the case of addiction that framework must include getting to the level of toxic core beliefs/hurts and healing them in order to create a perception of reality that is no longer distorted and painful. Without that you can try for (a word I hate) sobriety, the cessation of behavior, but ongoing distorted reality and subsequent anger, control, isolation, paranoia, grandiosity, just go on and on. And – the battle to stay sober is indeed a battle. Life is lived in a state of constant fear of relapse rather than in a state of embracing the present and living with intent. Only when we understand the irrational, acting out, behavior in the light of addiction can we get to a place of making good decisions about what to do next. I can understand your fear that he will use addiction as an excuse – but it will be only an excuse and nothing more. Once he (and you!) really understand that this is an addiction you can also understand that exceptional measures are needed to get to healing. Without acknowledging this as an addiction you will probably never get to that place .... and therefore not to a place of recovering your marriage either. All of this is why it is sooo important your professional help has a rock solid understanding of these dynamics – and how they affect intimate relationships. If s/he doesn't recognize addiction or doesn't understand the nuances then you won't be getting the help you need. That's a lot to take in. Let me know what questions you have. I'll check in on you later tonight. Hugs, P ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ penny.tupy@yahoo.com My eBook – Overcoming Infidelity One on one personalized help – Hire me “I don’t love you anymore. I’m not sure I ever did. I’m moving out. The kids will understand. They’ll want me to be happy.” “It’s not age-appropriate to expect children to be concerned with their parents’ happiness. Not unless you want to create co-dependents who’ll spend their lives in bad relationships and therapy." ~*~ Laura A. Munson “Heroes know that things must happen when it is time for them to happen. A quest may not simply be abandoned; unicorns may go unrescued for a long time, but not forever; a happy ending cannot come in the middle of the story.” ~*~Peter S. Beagle~*~ |
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Villager |
I don't know that I care if he has an addiction or not. He obviously doesn't see it as a problem, and feels that his "friends" are more important than our marriage. Why should I keep beating my head against this wall? He doesn't want this marriage to work, or he would work at it. I can't be the only one doing this, it is simply not in me. I am not strong enough or good enough or WHATEVER enough to handle it. I just want my life to stop spinning out of control and he is the cause of it, so my only thought right now is to get him out of my life. Only I can't because of one inescapable fact. We have a beautiful, amazing, innocent child together. So what do I do now?
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SYMC Founder Coach |
<sigh> I'm so sorry. First - you breathe. No. Really I mean that. Deep breath in ...... and then out again....... And again ...........All the way into your belly. How've you been sleeping? Or .... when's the last time you slept? Eating at all? Food with real nutrition? Who do you have for real life support? Are you sharing any of this with your parents? Maybe you could have them read your thread here? Lots of info that they can help you process. Do you have my ebook? If not, I think it would be very helpful. The link to order it is in my sig line. It's $16. If that is a problem in any way email me and I will send it to you for free. OK? Now ..... some things to think about ......
Mmmmm hmmmmm... Probably you care because (a) you love him and (b) your vows probably said something like "for better or worse - in sickness and in health."
Well - we don't really know how he sees it. We only know what he *says* ....which I can guarantee is not anything remotely close to reality. Even if he doesn't see it as a problem .... he's not here .... and that's not really the issue. YOU are here ..... and how you see it and what you do about it what we have to work with. And .... again ..... I'll come back to the vows you took. If this isn't the "worse" part -- I don't know what is. (And that's why we take vows ... not for the easy times! We don't need them when everything is good! We need them for times like this ... to remind us of our values.)
Errrmmmm.... I don't think anyone should beat their heads against the wall. I do think you would be best advised to get educated so you can make sound, ethical, decisions based on values and fact rather than fear and anger.
I'm so sorry. I suspect that in his heart of hearts he really does want it to work. And he's an addict who doesn't have the skills to do so. AND -- he doesn't know he doesn't have the skills. Tough place to be in. Really tough. But if he didn't want it to work he wouldn't be in counseling (counseling that's not working and probably won't be all that helpful .... but his intent is there).
Ahhhhhh .... but I think you are. I know it's crummy. I've been there. My husband is an addict. I really really really get the horror and the loss and the screaming in the underlayers of your brain that feel as if it will never stop. And I know that we are not given anything we can't handle. You CAN do this. With help and support and love and nurturing. And we'll be here to hold your hand every step of the way.
I know it feels like he's the cause of it. Only you can stop the chaos and the spinning out of control. That's not about getting him out of your life .... as you know that's not possible. You have a child together. It's about getting calm and grounded, educated and rational. When you can get there ... and stay there for good periods of time ....then you'll be able to make the best decision about your life in the long term. Please let me know if you want me to send you my ebook directly. I'll be in and out most of the day tomorrow and I'll check in on you again later tonight too. P ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ penny.tupy@yahoo.com My eBook – Overcoming Infidelity One on one personalized help – Hire me “I don’t love you anymore. I’m not sure I ever did. I’m moving out. The kids will understand. They’ll want me to be happy.” “It’s not age-appropriate to expect children to be concerned with their parents’ happiness. Not unless you want to create co-dependents who’ll spend their lives in bad relationships and therapy." ~*~ Laura A. Munson “Heroes know that things must happen when it is time for them to happen. A quest may not simply be abandoned; unicorns may go unrescued for a long time, but not forever; a happy ending cannot come in the middle of the story.” ~*~Peter S. Beagle~*~ |
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Villager |
I am trying very hard not to be a horrible person, and trust me this situation makes me feel like one. I am having a very hard time mustering up the interest to care about anything that H feels or does or says. All he does is lie to me and I have had all I can take.
I feel like an even more horrible person reading the questions you asked Penny. Should I be unable to eat? I am eating just fine, probably healthier than I have in years. But should my grief and anger prevent me from having an appetite? If it did, I wouldn't have eaten in about two and a half years. I am sleeping okay, too. In fact, better than I have in months, becuase I am no longer lying alone in our home waiting for him to come in at two or three o'clock in the morning. I am pretty sure my vows did say something to the effect of better and worse, sickness and health, **forsaking all others** unto death. I am not the one that has broken those vows, H is. I stuck with him, covered for him, lived through all of this because I love him, but he obviously doesn't love me. Do you know why he is most angry at me right now? Not for moving out, or becuase he doesn't see his son everyday, or becuase he is having to face up to reality and be honest about all the crap he has done...Oh no those aren't his main reason for being angry. His main reason for being angry is that I have separated our finances and now he is having to pay his bills on his own. I got my own checking account and changed insurance so that the only bills that each of us is paying half of is the phone bill and the house payment. I am still paying utilities, the ones that are in my name and my own credit card bills. He is only responsible for just under half of what we normally pay every month, which is well within what he makes every month, but he is having a difficult time, because he is terrible with money. THAT is why he is angry. He doesn't care that I am gone for any reason except that he can't spend as much money as he is used to. I am tired of being the only one who wants this to really work. I don't want to just co-exist in the same house as my H, but to really have a life together. But we don't and we probably never will becuase he doesn't have any interest in making any real changes. If he did he would ask for help, he wouldn't be lying and scheming at every turn. He wouldn't continue to tell me that "I certainly wasn't a perfect wife" when I confront him about his bad behavior. I realize I wasn't perfect, but I wanted to be. I wanted to be the perfect wife to him. I wanted to give him everything and I worked my butt off to do it, but it wasn't good enough and he doesn't mind telling me that. So, no I am not sure I can care anymore. Becuase the longer I care the longer he can hurt me, and I am tired of hurting, and crying and being angry. |
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SYMC Head Moderator Board of Advisors |
Hey Melissa.. good morning!
You know I read your post and just sighed. Just did a deep down "oh I know how you feel" sigh. Living with an addict is taxing and scary and completely living on a merry go round of ups and downs. I think the reasons you are feeling as good as you are IS because you've removed yourself from the chaos. And because you have been taking control of the finances and the messes he was creating in your marriage. And those are the best first steps you can take. Because the one thing that every addict must face is bottoming out. Having life become completely unmanagable and losing everything that matters. and that is why he is most angry at you... for making those changes. You are threatening the safety net for the addiction with not participating in enabling him.
Melissa.. the one thing that I think you're missing here is that addiction is a sickness. Like cancer, like pneumonia. It is a disease and as such needs to be treated like any other. I know it "feels" like he doesn't care. And I know it "feels" like he doesn't love you. And it feels like all he does is hurt you. Understanding how addiction effects the person is the most important thing you can do for your H and for your marriage. Actually.. more than likely he does. The problem is, he doesn't love himself. And in that space of not loving who he is, there is a disconnect with the self whenever choices for walking away or to feeding that addiction present themselves. And this has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether he loves you or not. This has everything to do with the immediate gratification of whatever it is the addict is addicted to. And everyone deserves that in a marriage, absolutely. But you don't know what the future holds for you. Or him. And he is asking for help.. he is in counseling (though I really am beginning to think a 12 step program like SA (sexaholic annonymous) might be a better choice right now. I know you are tired of hurting and crying and being angry.. yes I know EXACTLY all about that. I also know that there is hope and there is success. One of my oldest friends.. a 30 yr addict, proved that it can. He regained his children, his wife and his life. The first step is you. Not him. Is it not worth a try for that boy of yours? For the integrity of believing in those vows you took? Your H may not be living them now.. but you still are. Loui This message has been edited. Last edited by: LouiEJ*SYMC, "Everything's changed in a matter of minutes, nothing was saved in time. All of my old world and everything in it is hard to find, but they never...never were mine" "Before you knew me, an Angel came to me. I wrestled him down to the ground. He said he could cure me I said that don't worry me now." |
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SYMC Founder Coach |
Oh hunny! You are not a horrible person! Not by any stretch of the imagination!!
Yup. Absolutely. That's not what I mean when I suggest getting educated. Pretty much anything he tells you (or anyone else!) right now is going to be distorted. Probably a whole lot of it will be outright lies. Of course you don't want to hear that -- or be involved in it. A huge part of getting calm and grounded is removing yourself from his chaos. What I mean about getting educated is having enough factual information about addiction to understand that what he's doing is not about you. It's not about you not being good enough, pretty enough, young enough, old enough, thin enough, thick enough ..... It's not about you AT ALL. It's about his incredible inner pain and terror -- and a desperate attempt to get away from that. He happens to use sex (or fantasy) as his escape tool. Other people use food, religion, gambling, video games, shopping .... you name it.
Good for you!!! Errrr not for feeling like a horrible person ..... but for being strong enough to take such good care of yourself and to feel good about it! I forgot you were out of the house. Geeze that makes a huge difference - doesn't it?
Uh huh. And - when you took your vows I'm willing to bet there was nothing in there that said, "I'll do it only if you do ...."
Hmmmmmm..... How is covering for him an act of love?
Yep. I do.
Of course that's why he's angry!! He's being forced, maybe for the first time in his life, to face the real consequences of his actions! That's a really really good thing. And the fact that he's angry about it says you've done something that actually makes a difference.
I'm pretty sure he does care -- you're just not seeing it right now.
Ahhhhhh .... but here's the thing. In order for him to get to a place of wanting to make real change .....what he's doing right now has to be painful enough that he's willing to give it up. In the world of addiction that's called hitting the bottom. When you do things like cover for him, as you did in the past, you rob him of the consequences of his actions and therefore of the pain needed to be willing to make changes. When you do things like separate your finances you make him come face to face with the reality of his choices. (THAT'S real love, btw.) The more you can make decisions based on your values - maintaining your boundaries - the more he will have to face reality -- AND the more likely he will be to make real change. My H didn't do it until he was faced with losing me and everything else.
Of course he would. That's what addicts do. That's like saying if my dog really cared he wouldn't bark. Addicts lie and scheme. Part of that is all about their perception of reality being so skewed they don't even know what's real much of the time. And part of it is a way to cover their tracks.
See above  Yes he would. And the longer he can convince himself (and you!) that only if you changed things could be wonderful the longer he can refuse to face up to his own stuff.
It has nothing to do with you. You were every bit good enough. I promise you that.
<sigh> If only we could turn off caring. The fact that we can't is what makes us human. You don't have to hurt and cry and be angry though. You can care AND detach from his chaos. You can take care of you AND be an advocate for your marriage. Tough stuff .... I won't lie to you. That's why marriage is the boot camp that turns us into real grown-ups. P ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ penny.tupy@yahoo.com My eBook – Overcoming Infidelity One on one personalized help – Hire me “I don’t love you anymore. I’m not sure I ever did. I’m moving out. The kids will understand. They’ll want me to be happy.” “It’s not age-appropriate to expect children to be concerned with their parents’ happiness. Not unless you want to create co-dependents who’ll spend their lives in bad relationships and therapy." ~*~ Laura A. Munson “Heroes know that things must happen when it is time for them to happen. A quest may not simply be abandoned; unicorns may go unrescued for a long time, but not forever; a happy ending cannot come in the middle of the story.” ~*~Peter S. Beagle~*~ |
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Villager |
So, I have a question that relates to the new discovery of more contact via the internet. I have made up a fake account on Myspace to contact him. I have sent a friend request and in effect I am trying to get an inside look at how he interacts with the "other women". When I get that inside look I plan to confront him with it and bring it to the counselor. A part of me thinks that I have every right to do this exact thing, but another part of me feels sick to my stomach, guilty to the bottom of my soul because I am "trapping" him. And that is exactly how he will take it when he knows what I have done. I don't know if it will help, but being able to show real proof to our counselor and his parents who all seem to take the opinion of "poor, pitiful H" just so mistreated by his total *itch of a wife. No I shouldn't say that his parents have never said that to me, but they also aren't holding him accountable. They don't talk about it. Everytime I see them it is like they are pretending that nothing is wrong. We aren't even supposed to act as if there are any changes in our life, or something. His mother has not even asked me any questions about our situation. They are listening to everything he says and believing without question whatever he tells them.
It makes me a weak person that I want them to tell me that he is wrong and they are angry with him for his actions. But that is exactly what I want. I want acknowledgement from someone besides my own family, someone that really knows me and H that I have every right to be losing my mind and ready to leave over this. But he is not disclosing any of the real facts to them. He is glossing over everything, making me seem like a lunatic that left over something trivial. I am looking like the one that has no concept of holding to our marriage vows, like I am the one that has spent our whole marriage lying to everyone. He is putting what should be his role onto me with respect to his family and I hate it. I just feel so angry today. We are supposed to go to counseling tonight and I am afraid that I might lose it during counseling. I hate feeling like I can't control myself and I hate showing that part of me - the out of control, hysterical, puddle of emotion - to people who don't really know me. But I just feel it coming. It will get ugly tonight and I am dreading it already. This message has been edited. Last edited by: MelissaK24, |
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Founding Member / Pioneer Villager SYMC Moderator |
Hello Melissa
 I have read your last thread and am thinking   I am going to go way far back and see if I can find my thread for you to read from things in my life were very very crazy til i get back hugs hugs hugs and hang in there o and a quick question I want you to think about in the meantime why are you afraid of showing your true emotions in relationship to your marital situation? courage = fear + action |
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Villager |
I just realized that I started the last post saying I had a question and didn't even ask one.
LOL I am off my rocker today. I guess my question would have been whether this will be helpful to our situation or harmful? I suppose it is kind of too late now, if it will be harmful, huh? But I want to believe that looking at what he seems to want from these outside relationships will help me understand why it keeps happening. And help me really believe that it isn't something I can control or stop him from doing. |
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SYMC Founder Coach |
Ok sweetie - you have to stop using the word "witch" in a perjorative way. Witch is a word used by many to describe a religious affiliation (Wicca, Santeria, and even some Christians to name just a few). So .... if you could edit that in your post that would be cool.
MySpace, huh? You can do that if you want. It might get you what you want in terms of hard evidence to show the C and his parents. And you have a right to know. I can tell you from personal experience it's really really painful. I did something very similar eight years ago. I wonder if I have that story posted somewhere .... hmmmm ... I'll have to look. ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ penny.tupy@yahoo.com My eBook – Overcoming Infidelity One on one personalized help – Hire me “I don’t love you anymore. I’m not sure I ever did. I’m moving out. The kids will understand. They’ll want me to be happy.” “It’s not age-appropriate to expect children to be concerned with their parents’ happiness. Not unless you want to create co-dependents who’ll spend their lives in bad relationships and therapy." ~*~ Laura A. Munson “Heroes know that things must happen when it is time for them to happen. A quest may not simply be abandoned; unicorns may go unrescued for a long time, but not forever; a happy ending cannot come in the middle of the story.” ~*~Peter S. Beagle~*~ |
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SYMC Founder Coach |
Have you been able to in the last 2 1/2 years? . . . . I didn't think so. The *only* thing we can control is our own behavior. That's it. P ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ penny.tupy@yahoo.com My eBook – Overcoming Infidelity One on one personalized help – Hire me “I don’t love you anymore. I’m not sure I ever did. I’m moving out. The kids will understand. They’ll want me to be happy.” “It’s not age-appropriate to expect children to be concerned with their parents’ happiness. Not unless you want to create co-dependents who’ll spend their lives in bad relationships and therapy." ~*~ Laura A. Munson “Heroes know that things must happen when it is time for them to happen. A quest may not simply be abandoned; unicorns may go unrescued for a long time, but not forever; a happy ending cannot come in the middle of the story.” ~*~Peter S. Beagle~*~ |
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Villager |
Because like I said before it will be ugly. Physically ugly in that I have never been one of those women who look even more beautiful when they cry. My cry face is not pretty, all red and blotchy and my voice gets all high pitched and crazy sounding. Emotionally ugly in that I will probably say things that I don't like to admit that I feel about our situation. And the counselor seems to be insiuating that if I had been easier to talk to this wouldn't have happened. Also I might kind of let loose on the counselor as well as H. I am not the kind of person who flies off the handle over little things much. It takes a lot to make me really angry or upset and I am so there right now. I seem to be unable to rein it in when there are so many things making me feel out of control. I like the fact that I can stay in control of my emotional outbursts most of the time and when I lose it I tend to feel like an idiot afterward, becuase things don't usually come out the way that I mean them. |
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