quote:

he said that STD tests for guys aren't exactly comfortable, plus it could cost money

How is a blood test any different for a guy? If they have to swab the urethra, it's a little uncomfortable, but certainly not worse than the needle to draw blood.

quote:

I kind of have this urge to let some of this stuff slide, and go easy on him, because he seems to be making such an effort to make this right.

I'm going to be tough on you, chickie, cuz I know you're smart and strong and will get it.

What you're saying you want to do is called enabling. That means you rob him of real consequences of his actions and therefore of the motivation to do what needs to be done. (The outcome of which is growing into being a real grown-up.) People do it all the time .... it's pandemic in our culture ... AND it's cruel and crippling. Don't do it.

The reason he's making the effort make things right is precisely because their are consequences!

If you really love him -- don't rob him of the tough times that are the only things which create the opportunity to grow.

Hugs!

P

yeah.. what Penny said..

She just got there first...

Me thinks the book "Co-Dependent No More" by Melodie Beattie might be of interest to you?

Loui

quote:

My heart and my head are at war and it is so hard to go with my head, even when I know it is the right thing to do.

It's so painfully reassuring and scary sometimes to see how exactly the same this reaction is, whatever side of the fence!

Melissa - you worry about him resenting you, and you want to save him. I think I know what you mean, because I go through the exact same cycle when I request something of my H that is troublesome, then I feel bad for 'making' (or feeling like I made him) do it.

In this case however, it really seems like he's wriggling out again. That's my subjective unsubstantiated opinion.

More objectively - it seems like you're faced with the choice of - the possibility of him resenting you - or the definiteness of you resenting him. Because you've only asked a few things of him, tough though some of them are. Can you really let him off the hook without resenting him yourself?

quote:

he said that STD tests for guys aren't exactly comfortable, plus it could cost money

NiceGuy is right (hi Joe )

AND what your h is saying is a smokescreen. That's not his issue with getting a test! His issue is fear and shame. He doesn't want to have to make the appt, to explain why he's there, or even more terrifying, find out if he has something.

You need to see his results, btw. Not just have him tell you what they are. You need to see the piece of paper. And don't let him tell you there isn't a piece of paper. There is. Might take a couple weeks to come -- but it will.

Errr.... and when is YOUR test scheduled for????

P

Good Morning Melissa

quote:

. I know he is really not wanting to speak to his parents, and he said that STD tests for guys aren't exactly comfortable, plus it could cost money, which he doesn't have a whole lot of. I kind of have this urge to let some of this stuff slide,

oooo this is not one i would recommend you let slide at all.
His health as well as your could be at risk.
Perhaps you could offer to pay for the testing?
That would not be rescuing, because your best interest is in mind as well.

quote:

My heart and my head are at war and it is so hard to go with my head, even when I know it is the right thing to do.

It IS so very hard, isn't it?
The battle of the heart with the head
emotions vs logic
a careful dance of checks and balances
Ultimately
the "best" and "right" thing for YOU to do is stay true to YOUR code of ethics and core values, keeping in mind your core hurts.

Only you know what is best for you.
we are standing on the outside looking in at the view you share with us, from your perspective. And we read from our perspectives based on our past experiences.

So, Melissa
what does "rescuing" look like to you?
and
What does "supporting" look like?
and
what is the difference from your perspective?

hugs to you
Hypatia

Thanks for all the support to be strong. I know that I have to stay tough with him and not, as Penny put it, rob him of consequences that will teach him responsibility. I do know that, but I also love him, and that makes it hard to let him learn the hard way, sometimes.

To me rescuing would be paying bills that are supposed to be his responsibility. Covering those for him would not help him learn to handle his money better.
Supporting looks more like saving now to help pay for the counseling sessions later on down the road, when his insurance no longer covers them 100%. I told him that I couldn't stop the addiction for him, but I could certainly make sure that he was getting the counseling he needs to stop it himself.

I know that this pattern of being angry and then letting it all go when things get hard for him is a huge part of why we are in the position we are in. If I had only been better at staying tough with him. But I didn't want to seem like I was acting like his mother. I so wanted him and I to be equals, partners, not me in control and him rebelling. But that is exactly where we ended up anyway.

But from here on out I am going to make him responsible for himself...except when it will affect the well being of our son. I may have to pay the gas bill for him so that he will have hot water to bathe our little boy. But that is where I draw the line. No credit card payments. Should I give him gas money? That one is iffy for me. Anyway I am just rambling at this point. I just wanted to say that I know I have to do it this way. I just wish that it were easier. It is easier when I am angry with him, but I don't like to be angry so I guess I will just have to suck it up and be as tough with myself as I am with him.

and the STD testing?

quote:

Originally posted by Hypatia_SYMC:
and the STD testing?

Well, he is absolutely getting one, and I will be as well. I will probably call the clinic where I told him he should go and find out how much it costs. My fear is that if I give him money he will spend it on something else, and I don't want him to have my bank account information so checks are out. I don't think that clinic will take a money order...so not sure how I am going to pay for it because I don't plan to go with him to the clinic.
I'll figure it out.

You can tell H & the clinic you will be paying for both yours and his test.

The clinic doesn't care who foots the bill.. as long as it gets paid... More than likely they will be fine mailing you a bill...I would just make sure that it gets paid AFTER he goes and not before.

Loui

I am angry today, and I don't know why. My husband has begun doing the things that I asked him to do, not quite the way that I asked him to do it, but nevertheless. He got his STD test over the weekend, which I apprecitated and was fine with. The problem that I am having started this morning. He called me to let me know that he had confessed everything to his mother last night. He has told me this before, and it was a lie. This time he swears it is the truth. I don't care if it is. I am still angry. I asked that he speak to them with me there. I don't understand why it upsets me so much, but it does. I thought that I would be glad to have things out in the open and everything. I thought I would feel better if his parents were able to truly know what is going on. But instead I feel angry and I don't know why.

Anger is one of two things ....

The primary (and healthy!) reason human beings have anger in their tool kit of motivational drives is to make the mind and body ready and able to protect our loved ones (especially our offspring) from immediate physical danger.

Think about what happens when you're angry -- your vision narrows (physically and psychologically) and the perceived threat fills our sight -- much like being at the ultra screen seeing a movie from the front row. This makes sure we keep our attention on the danger and are not distracted. Our heart rate goes up and we feel as if we have to move. This fight or flight response energizes our muscles and makes us ready to either beat off the impending danger or else grab the kid and run like hell.

All of that is good and healthy when we're dealing with a physical threat. Saber tooth tigers in the earlier days of humankind .... muggers and out of control teenage drivers in more recent times.

Unfortunately we've evolved to the place where we use the anger/fight or flight motivation as a response to a perceived threat to our ego rather than to the physical safety of our loved ones. This is the unhealthy (and unhelpful!) use of anger of modern times.

So. The question of the day is: Where is the perceived threat to your ego triggered by his actions? (Cuz this kind of anger is all about what's going on inside of you rather than about what he is or is not doing.)

Hugs

P

That's the trouble, Penny. I can't figure this out. He says he did what I asked, to a point. He told me that he didn't intend to say anything, that it all just came out during a particularly intense conversation. And if what he is saying is true then he accomplished what I asked of him, which is telling his parents the truth. However he has told me all of this in the past and it turned out not to be true. I guess I am upset becuase I don't want this to be another lie. Also I am concerned that it ended up coming out like a list of what he did BECAUSE I wasn't doing what he wanted me to do. I want to know what justificatio he used with his mother to make his actions look less horrible.

Plus, since I told him that I do still love him and that I want this to work he has been kind of pushy. He wants to hug me all the time and calls me two or three times a day. Before I would have loved the affection and attention, but now it just feels overwhelming and completely fake.

On a completely unrelated problem I am aggrivated with him because it occured to me that H hasn't kept DS overnight on a Friday or Saturday night since I left. These are obviously the nights that all his buddies want to go do stuff, like playing poker until 3am, or shooting pool or playing darts or whatever. I feel like he intentionally sets it up so that he is available to still go do all the things with his guy friends that he did when I was sitting at home wondering why he didn't want to spend time with me. He isn't losing out on much, and very little seems to have changed as far as these behaviors go and I feel like the next step will be that the things with other women with start right back up again. I am just so frustrated.

quote:

That's the trouble, Penny. I can't figure this out.

Sure you can! You just need a little help

quote:

He says he did what I asked, to a point. He told me that he didn't intend to say anything, that it all just came out during a particularly intense conversation. And if what he is saying is true then he accomplished what I asked of him, which is telling his parents the truth. However he has told me all of this in the past and it turned out not to be true.

So - that sounds more like fear than anger to me. First - he didn't really do what you asked which was act like a responsible grown up and talk to his parents (blurting is not the same as a reasoned decision to share something). Second - you don't really know if he told the whole story or if he did so without twisting things.

quote:

Plus, since I told him that I do still love him and that I want this to work he has been kind of pushy. He wants to hug me all the time and calls me two or three times a day. Before I would have loved the affection and attention, but now it just feels overwhelming and completely fake.

Mm-k. Yes I could see some anger triggers there. Lesseeee ...... "when I was there for you and with you and wanted to be close you didn't have time for me but how that I'm out of the house and things are rocky you think hugging and loving on me all the time will make it better -- instead of doing the real work of recovery" ...... would that be close?

quote:

On a completely unrelated problem I am aggrivated with him because it occured to me that H hasn't kept DS overnight on a Friday or Saturday night since I left.

How about ...."if you really loved your son and wanted to be with him it would be more important than hanging out with a bunch of irresponsible guys doing worthless stuff but you're just pretending it's important during the week so you can pacify me and still do what you want to do without anyone getting in your way"...... close there?

P

You are totally right. I know becuase as soon as I read it I came very close to bawling like a baby in my office.
So, how do I stop it?

Go read my first post on this thread. You can read it all if you want -- but the first thread is where we'll start talking about how to change the anger.

Then download and listen to this visualization - FindingYourHeartMeditation.mp3

Then we'll talk about the next steps

P

okay, from that I am getting that I shouldn't be angry with him. Is that right? That he wasn't wrong in what he did? That his action aren't to blame for where we are right now?

I get that I have to feel worthy of love to be ready to recieve it, but I don't want to recieve it from him right now. Because number one I am not sure that it is really love and not just manipulation so that he once again gets things his way. and number two I think that if the way he has treated me in the past in how he shows love then I don't want it.

I don't understand what I was supposed to get from the post. All it did was make me feel like I have no right to be angry with him, and I do have that right. He did horrible things and lied to me and broke so many promises and I feel like everyone thinks I should just "let it go"! I am sure that wasn't the point of you asking me to go to that post, but I just don't understand what it was.

Errrr .... no .... no ..... and ... uhhhh ..... no.

What I want you to understand is the concept of core hurts. Just that - at least for now. Go read again and see if you can come back and tell me what a core hurt is. K?

And be sure to download and listen to the visualization. You'll like that better, I suspect

P

Okay...Core Hurts

From what I understand it is about the deep, underlying reason for me being hurt. The reason why his action hurt me. It isn't about his actions, but rather what those action trigger in me that causes the anger. My core hurt would be feeling as if I am not good enough. Along with that I feel unappreciated for the effort and time that I have already put in trying to make him happy. Nothing that I have done in the last two years was good enough for him and it still isn't. I am so tired of not being good enough for him.

He told me last night that he needed my support to change. In a way I get that he needs my support, but I am tapped out. I have given and given and given to him for two years and kept nothing for me. I barely have enough to put on a good face and get through each day just for me and my baby. How am I supposed to support him, and when do I get supported back?

Okay, so is that what I was supposed to do? I still feel angry, maybe even more so now becuase I have thought about how much it hurts me. What is the next step?

The next step is the meditation -- to remind yourself of the extraordinary ways in which you are good enough, ways that no one can ever take away from you.
FindingYourHeartMeditation.mp3

So.... can you tell us some of the things came to mind when you listened to the meditation? Things that really resonated with you?