Last night was awful. He told me he can't go on pretending that things are moving along with me. He doesn't think I love him like I say I do. He doesn't "feel" it from me. He told me all he ever wanted was me, but he doesn't see how we can fix this now. He has lost all faith in me and our marriage.

I was up all night thinking about what he said. And part of it is true. I didn't let myself think about how he's still got feelings for her and still calling/talking to her. I lied to myself saying he just needs a little more time to stay distant from her. I told myself that he's here at home with me and that should mean something. I refused to see that there is part of him that no longer wants to fight/wait for us. Part of him sees staying with me scarier/harder than leaving me.

Then he'll say something like, "I'm not saying I'm leaving. I'm saying I want to figure this out. I'm open to any outcome. I've always wanted you and only you, but..." then he goes into the no faith/I don't love him. And peppered throughout is how all of this "just happens" with her. He didn't want it with anyone else, he wasn't looking for it, but it hit him and now he's got us all in this mess.

I feel destroyed right now. Like nothing I do or say would make any difference to him. I do not want him to leave. I don't want to be seperated again. But I know we cannot continue to live like this b/c it will ruin our marriage for sure.

I so confused. I know what I want. I want to save/protect my marriage. I want my husband back. But he's not there with me wanting that. And I know it will never work until he does. I just hate the thought of him leaving. I think if he goes that's it for us.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jasens99,

quote:

Originally posted by jasens99:
I know we cannot continue to live like this b/c it will ruin our marriage for sure.

I think if he goes that's it for us.

Hi, and welcome to SYMC. You don't know me, but I'd like to encourage you today by telling to that the two sentences I quoted from you are... well... simply not the truth... although I KNOW it's how it feels right now.

I have seen SO MANY couples say they *can't* move forward with their spouse after infidelity (and other problems - some very difficult, like the birth of an other child conceived during the infidelity)...

Please understand that I am NOT minimizing either your pain or your H's... I remember that pain (I know from both sides, as both WS and BS in my first marriage).

Go read splenda's new post about recovery. She and her husband divorced and they are still recovering... and I could lead you to many couples who not only survived, but thrived... once they got past the gut-wrenching pain that infidelity brings.

Even if the worst happens (divorce) and I pray it doesn't for you there is always a new way to look at your marriage, or perhaps a renewed vow and marriage. One couple I know divorced, she married her affair partner, and three years later realized she shouldn't have, and she and her first H are remarried. They have a new beginning.

Those first months are HE11 on earth, they really are. And the unfaithful partner is often trying to ease their guilt for the affair by trying to convince themselves and anyone else who will listen (especially their betrayed spouse) that the affair was a necessary evil.

They feel like they're "faking it" with the betrayed, because that's how it feels at the moment. With time, the reality sets in... and hopefully, the betrayer can become real with themselves, see what their TRUE FEELINGS are (they were selfish when they had the affair and did was FELT RIGHT, not what WAS RIGHT.).

I hope that time comes for your H soon...

Be hurt, get angry... all of that's normal. But his affair does not DEFINE you... it may define him, but not you. Remember that.

Well another bad night-- that actually may have helped. We're discussing spending this weekend apart as a break for each of to just think and be away from the bickering. He'd go to his brother's house. We also discussed another separation. As he put it, "I don't want to leave you. I've been attached to you for 16 years. But I cannot live the rest of my life this way. SOMETHING needs to happen now." I agree with him. And I know that SOMETHING he's looking for--that SOMETHING that will make him see a change in me-- is breaking through my fear of letting my emotions out. To once and for all understand that by telling him how I feel no matter what it is, good/bad/mad/sad, shows him that I care enough to say, "Hey -- you need to know this so we can fix it before it becomes a huge problem."

I know I can do it. I will do it. How? I'm pretty much clueless other than reminding myself that being honest will save my marriage. I have my first counseling session this morning. H has one that was set up through work (another story there sometime) on Friday.

I called him after my session. It wasn't good. I expected him to not like what she had to say. But I'm so confused about what it is *he* wants. One minute it seems like he wants us to work, but then his fear sets in and BAM he doesn't think it will ever work. Which is where we've been this week. I discussed separating with her and she said she wouldn't do it b/c right now we needed to be toghether and work on us. She also said that he needs to cut it off with her 100%. (he's still talking to her at work and on the phone. Not seeing her outside of work, but continuing the emotional connection to her nonetheless). When I told him this, he wasn't very receptive.

While we were talking he said something along the lines of, "so you basically made this lady see things the way you see them. You didn't explain my side of it?" I asked him what I left out. He said, "That I don't believe in us, in you. That I do not see us working at all." I can't say I used those exact words, but I tried to make it clear to her that he's unhappy with us and unsure if we would work without big changes. I guess I didn't quite "get" just how much he doesn't see us working until this conversation. I think I was taking all his comments like, "I don't want to leave you, but I can't live like this" as a challenge to change and make it work. Instead it was a simple statement that meant he can't do this anymore..

The way things are going is not working. We do not see things the same way and are trying to convince the other they are wrong. We are stuck. We need to separate. If we don't separate and get some space and time away we are simply dooming ourselves. I'm hoping it will be a beginning of change for us. I'm not sure how PP works-- and I'm sure this has been said a million times, how do you have no contact? Especially when you have kids?

But right now I think that if we don't get away from each other there will never be a chance. Why do I believe that? Because right now I truly believe that if he gives her up 100% ,comes home, both of us do some work and make changes that we can be happy. Not just here together, but truly happy. He doesn't believe that at all-- he doesn't think we will ever work to the point of being truly happy. And with those 2 options there is only one thing that can happen. He will have to make a decision to stay or go-- and that decision would be made really soon b/c neither of us can stand this situation much longer. If we separate, there is the buffer of space between us. We will be able to think and really get our heads on straight.

And yes I know it gives him a huge opportunity to be with her. I have to accept that part of this mess is how he feels about her. This wasn't just a fling to either of them. Something happened, they fell in love. While that makes me want to puke and go into a rage, I have to keep my emotions in check right now. I can't go off the deep end. I have to talk about this stuff calmly and rationally. Having a breakdown does nothing but cause a fight.

I made another appt for Aug 3 at 7pm. She said he could come with me since his work schedule is hard to work around. He said he would think about it.

I so remember the uncertainty of it all and I feel your pain. Being betrayed is the hardest thing I have ever been through. Hang on J.

Not feeling very competent to give out advice so I won't but just wanted you to know someone out here understands how hard it is.

Tiggy

Thanx Tiggy. The few friends I have told about this all tell me to kick him out and get a divorce lawyer. I don't know what to do.

I'm so sorry, I can't begin to imagine how awful this is for you. If he's still in contact with her there is no way he can reconnect to you and to the marriage and there's really no way you can feel safe with him. So it's a vicious circle. If he leaves again I'd really like you to consider initiating and implementing Protection Phase - no contact with him at all - until he permanently and completely ends his relationship and all contact with her.

What other things have you done? Who have you told? Does his HR dept know? Is she married? If so, have you talked to her spouse?

P

Penny,

He works in a factory and is a supervisor. She is a line worker in his *former* dept, so he was her boss. He had a vacation about 2 weeks ago. The Friday before his vacation his boss told him to go home and they'd talk after his vacation. H refused to leave without an explanation. He was told it was due to "job performance" issues-- motivation/going the extra mile like he used was gone and he was spending too much time talking to her. After his vacation he was transferred to another dept. She remained where she was. However, the new dept is just around the corner-- very accesible to each other during breaks etc. So yes, pretty much everyone at work knows. He told me everyone there told him to come home and to forget about her. The transfer was kind of a shock b/c his boss knew of his marriage problems and refused to do anything to help out. H had been working 12 hour shifts 6-7 days a week for the last 10 weeks prior to vacation. His bosses exact words when H talked to him about getting someone to cover him/fill in due to the stress he was under and our problems was, "You're not telling me anything I don't already know. I've burned through 3 wives because of this place." H replied, "Well I don't want to be like you."

Other people who know include my parents, 1 of his sisters (whose one of my best friends), his dad and stepmom, and stepbrother. His mom and other sister do not know. A group of my online friends knows-- they are the ones telling me to kick him out and get a divorce lawyer. They just don't understand how I can let him do this to me.

I started seeing a counselor this week. He is supposed to see one Friday (7.15) that was set up through work. Once some of the "higher ups" saw that there was a lot more going on in his life than they knew they really pushed him to see a counselor and he agreed to it.

She is a single mother-- her dad and sister both work at the same factory. They both knew/know of the A-- H said they were both against her being with H. Although not for moral grounds more because they were jealous she was with "the boss"- her sister is currently in an A and her dad left her mom for his AP. Her mom knows, even met my H.

I have pondered over calling her-- I know her name, cell and home #'s-- but I'm not sure it would do much good. I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to stay collected and degenerate into a Jerry Springer, name calling scream-fest.

At one point he left the house and stayed with her for a few days, then his stepbrother for a couple nights. Then he came home. I thought this was the new beginning, but he continued contact with her. I was destroyed by that. I pulled away (or as awed stated in my other post-- punished) from him last wknd. Prior to the wknd I really felt like we were making some babysteps. This week feels like we are heading toward a big explosion.

He wants to spend this wknd apart to get away from the bickering and as he put it, "Just not think about it all for a few days." I asked if he was planning on spending the night with her, he said she didn't even know he was planning this. BUT that he would like to have a chance to sit and talk with her about everything instead of hurried, brief conversations during work or on the phone. I didn't know what to say to that.

I started a conversation yesterday on his way home from work about separating. I was calm, collected, and really had my thoughts in a row. I think it shook him up a bit. He even said, "I don't know why you're acting this way." When I asked what way he didn't reply. When he got home the subject of separating didn't come up, only being apart for the wknd and coming back home on Sunday.

I'm so lost and confused. I've been with him since I almost 15 years old. Sixteen years of my life I have loved him and only him. I know there are things I need to work on with myself and I am doing that. He just doesn't see it or refuses to see it. I'm not sure which.

Not sure if we're spending the wknd apart or not. He took clothes with him to work today though. He said he would figure it out later and let me know. He had to go in early to cover a guy on vacation. He will be staying at his stepbrother's. When he left for work this a.m. I cried a little and he said, "Oh you do this now at 2 in the morning when you haven't said 15 words to me in the last 2 days."

He leaves, I call him on his cell. We fight. He says I'm not listening to him and only seeing my POV. I tell him when I try to see his POV and talk about it he gets mad at me. Like when I was discussing being apart this wknd he said, "It sounded like you really wanted me out of the house and that P***sed me off." Okay, so I try to see his side and let him have what he says he needs--but that's wrong too. I'm being way too nice here aren't I?

Then he calls me and freely admits that he's "blocking me" and he sees that I am trying. But he doesn't believe in me. He feels it will never work and he can't help the way he feels. He knows he's just as much to blame in how both of us are feeling lost/hopeless. He said that I am tearing him apart inside and so is she. I believe his exact words were, "I'm ready to tell both of you to go to he**."

His counseling session was cancelled b/c the dr. had to be out of the office today. He is telling the lady in the front office that set it up (not really sure of her title but she is the go-between for the plant and setting up consoltations etc) if it's okay if he goes to the lady I'm seeing. The dr. he was set up with is the only one working with the plant right now and she is extremely difficult to get in with.

So nothing really has changed other than he actually admitted to seeing me change but blocking it. And that he's just as frustrated with her as he is with me-- I'll admit that makes me smile. I know it's the evil-vindictive-woman side of me smiling, but it felt good to hear something bad about her.

We spent the weekend apart. He stayed at his brothers house and they and guys they work with went out on the town. He came home Sunday evening.

He called me on his way home and we had a fairly decent discussion about what we think we need to do. He said he wants to start TALKING about a separation. Not doing it right now, just talking about the specifics of what we would do. He said he doesn't want to pack his bags and leave. He doesn't want it to be another bad leave, nor does he want the actual time we're separated to be ugly. He wants us to really talk and keept the lines of communication open. I agreed by saying we need to be totally honest with each other no matter how we think the other person will react.

We talked his whole way home pretty much. Right before he got to our house we had a spat. He took something I said the wrong way and true to form he refused to listen. I finally got through to him what it was I meant about a half hour later-- after he had a shower and calmed down. We spent some more time talking about what we thought/felt/wanted etc.

He ended up seeing the AP yesterday-- I had pretty much assumed he would so I was prepared for it. He told me they spent most of the time arguing. One of the things I told him is that I know what we're doing isn't working b/c right now he is unable to give me what I want and doesn't think he ever will be able to. I told hime that left me with 2 options-- keep doing what I'm doing even though I know it's not working (which BTW is typical of me. I have issues with moving away from my comfort zone and changing my stance/attitude etc. Kinda like I have blinders on and refuse to see that it's not working). Or I could put aside what it is what I want and give him what he wants. He asked me, "What's that?" I said, "This weekend I have tried to take my emotions out of the picture and focus on everything you have been telling me. And when I do that what I hear is that you don't want to be here." He said, "I wouldn't say that. Because I can't give her what she wants right now either. She wants me to pack my bags and move in with her. And I can't do that. If we separate, I would like to spend some time with her. But I'm not available on many levels to move in with her or even "date" her. Even if we did divorce I don't think I could just move right in with her-- it would take time after something like that for me to available to anyone on that level again."

Then he says, "I'm going to tell you what I told her. I'm not making any promises. I'm not making any commitments. I told her that you and I need to sit and figure something out before I can give either of you anything at all. She knows how I feel about her. But she also knows how I feel about you and why I am scared about leaving you. And so do you-- I love you and I always will. I don't want to break our family up. You can take that how you want. If you want to tell yourself we'll just co-exist until I leave then do it. I don't want you to do that but you probably will."

I said, "What if I take that as a challenge instead?" He said, "Part of me hopes you do. But there's another part of me that doesn't believe you will. And since I haven't slept all weekend there's just one more thing I want to say to you-- I haven't left yet. Is there anything else you want to say before I fall asleep?"

I told him that he confuses the crap out of me. That most days I feel I'm darned if I do and darned if I don't. It doesn't seem to matter what I say he has a comeback or reason it's wrong. He said he knows the feeling. After that we went to sleep.

When he left for work this morning he was pretty short and snotty with me. He called me later told me he was sorry, he was just frustrated with our conversation. He had wanted to really talk about the idea of separating and we really didn't do that. He said he felt all we did was argue about the thing he got mad about on the phone right before he got home. And how I didn't want a separation. That's such crap. I swear he doesn't LISTEN at all. I totally agreed that we needed to start talking about and figuring out all it would entail for us. He's the one who said, "All I'm going to say is I haven't left yet." Again, darned if I do, darned if I don't. He's saying he wants to discuss separation with me, but also wants me to see that he hasn't left yet so take that as challenge okay?

I swear I'm going to lose my mind over this. I think I finally have a grasp on what I need to do, what I think will work for us, actually have it planned out what I'm going say and bam-- his head starts spinning and split pea soup comes spewing out of his mouth. I think it freaks him out when I hold it together and keep my emotions in check and can actually hold the tough conversations.

It makes me feel really good to be able to do that too. Because that is the one thing I need to change in myself. I used to totally shut down with any kind of emotional situation. Didn't matter if it was bad or good. I never let myself feel all of it. When we argued I barely spoke, scared if he knew what I was felt and what I thought it would upset him and he'd leave me. So now, when I speak up... man it's such a great feeling! I'm getting a little better with it each day too. The honesty assignment is coming along also. I have this little voice in my head that repeats, "I feel this... I feel this... I feel this..." And then I fill the blank.

Good Morning Jasen,

Okay...I'm kinda short on time...but I wanted to make a few short observations and give you a little food for thought.

About separation....separation on his terms.... this homogenized version he wants to implement is only to enable cake eating. It's not to improve the marriage...it's to improve his access to BOTH you and her. Don't talk about with him...don't facillitate it....it's not something you should agree to, and it will never accomplish anything good for your marriage. The only type of separation that IS likely to help at this point....is protection. Why? I can tell you....but it's more important that you tell me, because that's the best way for it to be meaningful to you. Write down your thoughts, and I'll try to respond later.

Secondly....be careful about the disrespect your communicating with right now. The honesty assignment is about sharing your real feelings, and getting out vital information that can help this situation. Judgements won't do that. Of course what he is doing is completely unethical, but don't use honesty as a weapon...or it can become unethical not in it's content...but it's use.

Remember this....you can't blame other people for the problems and solve the problems...you must choose between the two. Real power requires logic/compassion...not anger. Anger FEELS empowering but that's the trap. Anger and resentment amplify and magnify problems....they don't help solve them. That's one of the key features of protection...and why protection works when blame, resentment and anger fail.

He wants you to "buy into" his view that he can separate and explore both relationships simultaneously without choosing. You're allowing HIS choice to govern what you do if you allow that. Take back your power in a real and meaningful way by making your own decisions about protecting your marriage that aren't dependent on his actions, addictions, rationalizations and chaos. What would happen if it were impossible for him to pursue both relationships simultaneously?

((((((((((((((((jasen)))))))))))

quote:

Write down your thoughts, and I'll try to respond later.

The logical side of me *knows* everything you said is true. I know that by doing PP I not only remove myself from the situation, but his control over me within the situation. It leaves him with nothing but her and the consequences of his actions. It doesn't let him have us both while he tries to figure himself out. It gives me the space away from him and the stress that I need to effectively work on and take care of myself.

The side of me that always "but".. says but the A isn't all that's keeping us apart. Our lack of communication in the past, before the A, has caused huge holes within our relationship. We were both trying to make the other see our side, but all we ended up doing was passing each other without even stopping. Everything he says he felt about me, I can pretty much say the same about him. I'm afraid that PP will tell him, "I don't want to talk to you about this. I don't want to work on this. Go away." Instead of seeing it as an act of protecting my love for him and our marriage he will see it as me giving up and not caring enough to stick it out and for the first time actually communicate and make a decision together about what we want.

quote:

be careful about the disrespect your communicating with right now

I don't see how I'm communicating in a disrespectful way. I'm calm, rational and have my thoughts together. Yes there are times when I get frustrated and sigh and roll my eyes at him. But I stay in control and don't let myself shut down nor do I let myself get all crazy and sob and refuse to listen to what he's saying to me. It's balanced and controlled.

quote:

He wants you to "buy into" his view that he can separate and explore both relationships simultaneously without choosing. You're allowing HIS choice to govern what you do if you allow that.

Again my logical side totally sees this. But if I implement PP and cut all contact off with him he can see her whenever he wants.He'll think it's okay b/c I'm not even talking to him or as he'd see it not caring enough to try. If I continue a dialog with him I feel like we might work through some of our communication problems. If he stays here and sees my changes he'll see that he's wrong about the pre-A problems never going away.

I'm so confused about all this. I'm scared to cut off all contact with him although part of me understands why I should.

quote:

The logical side of me *knows* everything you said is true. I know that by doing PP I not only remove myself from the situation, but his control over me within the situation. It leaves him with nothing but her and the consequences of his actions. It doesn't let him have us both while he tries to figure himself out. It gives me the space away from him and the stress that I need to effectively work on and take care of myself.

yep....all true

quote:

The side of me that always "but".. says but the A isn't all that's keeping us apart. Our lack of communication in the past, before the A, has caused huge holes within our relationship. We were both trying to make the other see our side, but all we ended up doing was passing each other without even stopping. Everything he says he felt about me, I can pretty much say the same about him.

This is way Penny says....so much of how we fight infidelity is COUNTER-intuitive. She's so funny...she once said that if she could write a book about fighting infidelity, she'd entitle it "If it feels WRONG...do it." Your mind will come up with thousands of reasons why it makes more sense NOT to got to PP...that's why it's so terribly hard to get folks to do what they need to.

quote:

I'm afraid that PP will tell him, "I don't want to talk to you about this. I don't want to work on this. Go away." Instead of seeing it as an act of protecting my love for him and our marriage he will see it as me giving up and not caring enough to stick it out and for the first time actually communicate and make a decision together about what we want.

At first...it just may...and that "first" impression it what scares folks into waiting and waiting and dealing with the ever-waffling, cake eating spouse. "What if he gets the wrong impression?" It's really okay if he does at first....but as the affair reaches critical mass....the real reasons will surface. It's hard to have faith in that....I know...but let me review what protection does since you obviously DO have a good working knowledge of it.

*protection ENDS conflict. Conflict creates the dynamics that push the WS TOWARDS the AP...ending conflict PULLS them away from it.

*protection is for everyone...not just the BS. You can honestly and ethically be motivated to HELP the WS by allowing the consequences of their destructive acts to be FELT and experienced rather than protecting them from that hurt and experience by tolerating the continued affair and still "talking". Right now....your H is in the throes of a biochemistry that is fueled by adversity....remove the adversity and you weaken the addiction. Your Participation at this point HELPS keep the affair alive....remove yourself and you remove a vital part of the chemistry of adversity, risk, taboo etc.

quote:

I don't see how I'm communicating in a disrespectful way. I'm calm, rational and have my thoughts together. Yes there are times when I get frustrated and sigh and roll my eyes at him. But I stay in control and don't let myself shut down nor do I let myself get all crazy and sob and refuse to listen to what he's saying to me. It's balanced and controlled.

Perhaps in real life you are....but you give power to disrespect by expressing it here. Let me give you an example....and admittedly...they are subtle chere...so just be careful not to let them bleed into real life. Ex: You made the statement that he reacted "true to form". Is that a judgement? I think so. You also said "I swear he doesn't LISTEN" is that because he doesn't hear you or doesn't agree with you? I'm just asking you to be careful....in general you sound loving and logical.:smile:

[quote:
I said: He wants you to "buy into" his view that he can separate and explore both relationships simultaneously without choosing. You're allowing HIS choice to govern what you do if you allow that.


you said: Again my logical side totally sees this. But if I implement PP and cut all contact off with him he can see her whenever he wants.He'll think it's okay b/c I'm not even talking to him or as he'd see it not caring enough to try. If I continue a dialog with him I feel like we might work through some of our communication problems. If he stays here and sees my changes he'll see that he's wrong about the pre-A problems never going away.[/quote]

YES...he CAN see her whenever he likes!! That's entirely the point. Because part of what fuels the obsessiveness and addiction of affairs is the adversity created by inaccessibility. When you remove that, and yourself, it creates an UNEXPECTED and counter-intuitive reaction. It makes him want YOU more...instead of her. Use the biochemistry of affairs to work for you...that's why protection works and works well. I've heard Penny say she loves when the WS and the AP move into together...nothing destroys fantasy FASTER than reality...not talking, communicating, misinterpreting etc....the reality of everyday life is what lights the lightbulb and removes the addiction.

quote:

I'm so confused about all this. I'm scared to cut off all contact with him although part of me understands why I should.

It IS a very very scary step. Please know that everyone feels your pain and fear....but it is also the most empowering step that you can take. While you're vacillating a bit and feeling uncertain.....do your BEST to complete the "Intervention Phase" by confronting, ending conflict, exposing and leaving him with the best impression of you as a person who VALUES themselves. THEN....remove yourself from his chaos and let him flounder.

It may not seem so right now....but protection is a win/win scenario for you and prepares you for ANY outcome....coming home, or leaving home for the AP. No matter what the outcome, you will be better prepared, farther along in recovery, more empowered, and surer about who you are.

Thanx Star. I see now how the way I phrased a few things come off as disrespectful, angry and resentful. And even though I am, I read one of the articles on the site that says you *have* to keep those emotions out of it. I feel like I am with him, but here and with the friends I discuss this with I definatly vent a little bit. You've given me quite a bit to ponder over. thanx!

I let myself give into wishful thinking the last few days. There hadn't been any talk of AP, separation, or divorce. Granted the funeral took up our lives there for a couple days.

So I asked H where we were last night. He turned it around and asked me where I thought we were. I told him last week all he talked about was separation and divorce. The last few days, nothing has been said about it. I knew it was probably just wishful thinking, but I felt like he may be changing his mind. I was scared to believe that b/c I was probably wrong. I asked him if I was. He said yes.

I called him on his way to work and had a dead-end conversation. And another when he called me a couple hours ago. So I came upstairs and wrote out a PP/NC letter. I freely admit it's not really a NC letter-- I don't even mention no contact, just a separation. Part of me is still on that river in Egypt.

_________________

Dear [H],,

This is the hardest thing I have ever had to do. But it's something I think has to be done to protect our marriage and our love. I married you for better or worse and I'm committed to keeping those vows and doing whatever it takes to make our marriage work.

The affair is so painful for me that I cannot see past it at times. If we continue like we are we are destroying any chance we could have. For that reason we must separate. It's the last thing I ever wanted to happen to us, but if we don't do it, we are going to suffocate our love. This is not done out of anger or resentment, but out of my deepest desire to protect our family. I no longer wish to continue hurting each other and going in circles with you. I want you and only you. When you can completely end the affair with [AP] and say the same thing about me I will be here ready to talk about our future together.

I know that the affair was not the beginning of our problems, and I am not ignoring them. But until [AP] is out of our lives 100% we cannot begin to heal our marriage. I am working on improving myself so I can be the wife, friend, and lover you deserve. I told you that when you don't love yourself it's hard to believe anyone else does either. So that's my first step"”to like myself and believe in myself again. I'm not doing this only for you though. It's something I must do for myself as well.

You will see the kids whenever you like. You are a wonderful father and your relationship with the kids is very important to me. As for housing and money this is what I think should happen. Right now I think the kids and I should remain in the house since school is starting up in a few weeks. I am going to start looking for a job so that you are not paying for everything during this time. You can move in with [stepbrother] and when I get a job that will give you money to give to him for "rent" and utilities.

I am not doing this to hurt you or punish you. My desire in doing this is to protect us. You are my husband and I love you. When you are ready to cut [AP] out of your life for good, I will be here waiting for you and our future together.

Love Always,
J.

____

Like I said, I know it's not up to par on the NC stance. But I wrote it-- I tried several other times and just couldn't do it. And I'm willing to work on getting myself in a place that I can do the actual NC. Suggestions are more than welcome.

Jasens..

I am so sorry you are going thru this too. I won't comment on your PP letter since I've rewritten mine w/lots of help here I'll let those better at that than me to comment.

I will say that I've backed out now 3 times and each time something comes up it hurts more and makes me nutty...though with LOTs of help here and al anon (since my SO's addiction is drugs not another woman) have helped me enormously.

I've been working on myself and healing as much as I can w/him here...but whenever he uses it just throws me into nowheresville all over again. I would say that contact w/your H will do that to you over and over again as well and it's so painful...The reasons may differ but one hopes the outcome is the same.

WH's come to their senses and want to work on themselves and their M's.

Good luck..to you...and me too!!

EJLH

jasens -- I am heading out on the road again and have no time to respond in detail...I'd encourage you to re-read what I wrote to you in your first post, as a reminder, to get suggestions, to understand that different perspectives are possible...

your situation (your H's words and attitudes) is so similar to mine it is scary...

listen to what Star is suggesting...please...I was very successful in implementing counter-intuitive techniques precisely because of people like Star...

there are no shortcuts bub...it sucks, and is hurtful, and scary...it's tough and requires a lot of reminding, support and true grit (including clenched teeth) to keep yourself on the path that feels WRONG!!!

the alternative is worse though...even if it doesn't feel like it at the time...

awed

P.S. I think you need to do a few things before you go into PP...your disrespect is coming through loud and clear and I sincerely doubt your H has not "heard" it, one way or another...

more importantly: disrespect harms you most of all...

Here's some highlights of our conversations yesterday...

He said something about how it was obvious he was going to have to make the decision b/c I wasn't able to do it. I asked him what decision was I supposed to make? I told him I have no idea what he wants. Sometimes he talks like he wants to be here more than anything, othertimes he's talking about divorce. I asked him what do you want me to do? He said, "I want you to tell me it will be okay. I want a reason I can believe in to stay." I gave him my reasons, examples etc. He said, "But you didn't do any of that then." I tried to explain we were talking about the future, not the past. He said he didn't see it that way. Then 20 mins later (we were talking on his way home from work) he said, "I think I should start moving my stuff out."

When he got home he wanted to know if I had thought up any other reasons that would make him stay. He argued each of them, said he didn't believe me, said I didn't love him or else I would've done these things before. He said I could've kept him instead I just let him go. And he hates me for that. Convo ended with him saying he thinks he should move out by the weekend.

I was crying. He said, "I don't get you. Did you really think this would turn out any other way? I've been telling you for a month I wanted to leave. I bet by tomorrow you're pretending this conversation never even happened."

Today I have talked to him a few times-- attempted to mention the conversation and let him know I was thinking about it, that I didn't want him to leave. All he said was "I know that." And changed the subject to his new text pager he got today through work-- telling me the #, the website I can send text messages through etc. Totally normal conversation, like I hadn't even mentioned a thing.

I don't even know how to react anymore. I told my friend all my emotions are tangled up with each other-- I'm angry, sad, confused, fed up and tired both mentally and physically. I ache all over.

There's your own little flight of Angel's to look after you!!

You are correct - this is very difficult and corosive stuff. Penny and Star are two of the BEST in the Business. Please listen to them. Take the actions now, when it will have the best posible chance of success.

Protection Phase seems scary but is indeed needed. The affair parteners want to sign you up for the 'new order of things'. You do not have to play.

How about getting a PP letter going, and looking at logistics of accomplishing it? It is needed to protect the feelings and marriage.

I would expose more, and now. Simple and to the point. "X in involved with Y and I want him back." it can be that simple.

I'll pray you maintain your mantle of peace and grace. I know it will wear thin. PP is to protect both of you and your M. REad up on in under Articles above please.

Praying for you & yours,
SB

quote:

I swear I'm going to lose my mind over this. I think I finally have a grasp on what I need to do, what I think will work for us, actually have it planned out what I'm going say and bam-- his head starts spinning and split pea soup comes spewing out of his mouth. I think it freaks him out when I hold it together and keep my emotions in check and can actually hold the tough conversations.

So I performed a little test last night. I decided *not* to discuss anything about the A, separation, what he was thinking etc, when he got home. I did this b/c we had talked a few times during the day-- each time I told him how I was feeling. Using the "I feel" words. And each time when I did it he would literally shut up and not talk anymore.

Our cell phones have the push-to-talk walkie talkie feature and that's usually how we talk during the day. The first time we talked he asked how I was. I told him I was feeling pretty sad. Which was the truth-- it was one of those days where I cried at the drop of a hat. After I said that he didn't say anything else.

I text messaged him while he was in his afternoon meeting (something we always did and still do). It said, "I don't want to lose you. I love you so much. Lets make this work." I got no reply. On his way home we were walkie-talking again. He said he felt my text message was meant to confuse him even more. I said nope, just telling you how I feel. You don't have to agree with it, but you need to know it. He stopped talking again.

That's when I decided to not say anything more the rest of the night. I asked him about work, etc... keeping the convo *off* the situation. And really, we didn't talk much at all. He went to run an errand and asked me what was wrong, I said, "Take your pick. You're in love with another woman, you want to move out, you won't let me hug you..." Now I know that was pretty disrespectful and probably not the most effective way of communicating what I was feeling-- but it's how he's been talking to me and I wanted to give it back to him. Bad, I know. He opened up his arms and gave me a hug though.

Got the kids in bed, laid down in our bed and we were watching TV. Still not talking about the situation. We were watching MythBusters and cracking up like we always do when we watch it. I don't know if he noticed it or not, but it was strangely nice-- like all the tension between us had vanished for a little bit.

After we turned the TV off and were ready to fall asleep, he slips his leg over mine. That would be the first time he's inniated contact with me in quite awhile. I snuggled in a little closer. We'll just leave it at that..... But what the heck?! I ignore him all night and bam he's right there wanting me! I guess I can see how NC and PP kinda work now.

Oh and as for moving out by this weekend like he said... hasn't brought it up.