Have you ever read anything by Pema Chodron? She's a Buddhist nun who teaches a form of meditation called tonglen to develop compassion (I guess this is a regular Buddhist practice, but I like the way she describes it). When you're feeling pain, you breathe in the pain of all others feeling that same pain, starting with those close by and moving out to encompass the world. Then you breathe out "coolness" (is how I remember she described it) or compassion.

I've been thinking about this a lot the last couple of days. (And I apologize if I'm repeating what someone else already said - I need to get this out of my head before I forget so I haven't caught up on reading yet.)

In the parenting class we're talking about how to parent with compassion. And that doing so requires being grounded in our Self - in the best self that we can be - and it requires beging free of afflictive emotions... anger, anxiety, fear, hatred, resentment, blame, etc. The tool we use for that is the Core Value Bank - it's a step by step process to get in touch with our intrinsic selves, evoking the emotions of connectedness and value.

But, as any of us who have kids knows, it would be impossible to stay in that place all the time. Heh. Some days it's hard to get there, period, much less stay there. And yet, we wouldn't suggest that we stop taking actions and parenting our kids until we can get reconnected. Instead we encourage parents to do the best they can every day and to work towards improvement. Improvement being - what can I do right now to make this a little better.

So, when we talk about Intervention (because I think perhaps that's where the greatest crisis manifests itself) it seems to me that we have two ends of the spectrum either of which is likely to show up and neither of which is grounded or compassionate. The first is the be-nice-at-any-cost sort of thing that we see far too often. The second is the explosive anger, resentment, judgment, etc. A whole lot of the time we see people swing back and forth between those.

Living in the Center is something I haven't talked about for a very long time but it's a central part of SYMC's philosophy speaks to that a little bit. Living in the Center is about setting aside instinct and intution and coming to decisions based on a good understanding of the dynamics of a situation. I think with our expanded awareness of the psychology of compassion and ethics (and it is indeed well grounded in psychological findings) it's important that we add acting with compassion to the idea of Living in the Center.

But.... back to how that works in a practical manner. When people come to us with the crisis of some destructive act in their marriage we are in effect part of the Intervention process. That's more true for me as a coach and for the Mentors and EI's than it is for the Mods and Elders. And, it's more true for Mods and Elders than it is for Villagers in general. But on some level it is true and applicable for all of us.

Intervention Phase talks about intervening on two fronts simultaneously. The marriage that is in trouble and the affair. That's work for the partner seeking help. Intervention on the part of SYMC is a bit different. We intervene to bring calm and compassion in a place of chaos.

Just as we don't ask parents to stop parenting when they are overstressed and in a chaotic place I don't know that we can simply sit back and wait for people to 'get' compassion before we encourage them to take steps in regards to an affair or any other destructive situation. I think, although I'm working through this in my head and it may change, that as coaches, advocates, supporters, and helpers we need to intervene on two fronts as well. To the best of our ability we need to give people good information about the dynamics of what is going on in their situation, we need to provide them with strategies for addressing the problem, AND we need to give them information and strategies to move them away from internal chaos and toward that place of grounded connectedness.

If you look at the scripted wording for things like exposure and confrontation you'll see that it is put together in a way that models compassion. And yet, many times I've seen people with a hx of anger and control use those words exactly as they are written only to have their spouse see them as more evidence of abuse. (Yes, I know some of that is the energy of the person having the affair but we cannot discount what a history of abuse or control carries into the present in terms of how one is perceived.) So the energy, intent, motivation, and to some extent the history of the individuals will play a part in how the work of Intervention is perceived.

I've always liked "behaving as if" as long as it is combined with work that makes the external changes occur in the internal space as well. If not, then it's pretty hard to maintain for any length of time and trust is undermined.

On an interesting side note. For as long as I've been doing this I've talked to BP's about the pain and confusion and grief the WP feels. Almost without fail I'm not believed. In fact, I think I have a thread here about not believing what you see on the surface ..... I know I do because my research survey is based on it. Anyyyyway - part of learning and walking a compassionate path is being able to see beneath the surface of external actions (level one - what the world sees) to what is going on under the surface. Often, almost always in negative actions, what happens under the surface is a far cry from what is presented to the world.

P

Re: "...behaving as if..."

Although I understand this concept from a cognitive standpoint, it still feels... somehow... dishonest.

If I act "as if" I love someone, the idea is (I guess, if I'm understanding this correctly) that the real feelings will follow if I do it enough? In the meantime, I don't *actually* love the person. Can't they tell? Isn't there a difference between "as if love" and "real love"???

Haven't you ever had to behave as if you were sane and rational even though inside you were an hysterical mess?

It's the same thing. Part of being older than, say, two... is the need to behave differently than our emotional state. Our emotions are only red or green flags telling us that something feels good or bad but they don' - can't actually - tell us what to do about it. That part comes from a different place in the brain where we put discernment and discretion and virtue and patience and all those good things to work.

P

You know - like right now I don't much feel like doing any work. Writing a newsletter or anything else for that matter What I really want to do is go outside, look at my pumpkin patch, sweep the porch, pet the cats, read a book, take a nap. I suspect a whole lot of people feel that way a whole lot of time - but most of us behave as if and get our work done before we go play.


Oohhhh.... although....... I could go buy paint and repaint the back hallway....... hmmmmmm...... newsletter?......paint?........ My conscience may lose this one......

P

quote:

Originally posted by Penny_SYMC:
Haven't you ever had to behave as if you were sane and rational even though inside you were an hysterical mess?

You know me too well to ask this. ...

Okay, I get that.

Let's talk about love though, and what that looks like when you're acting 'as if'... 'cause I suspect it's more than just making dinner. Let's talk about how it looks in other areas... and if we're feeling brave... in the bedroom. And I would hope that everyone knows me well enough to know I'm not asking for smut. I am just guessing that some folks would like to know this.

quote:

Originally posted by Nyneve:

quote:

Originally posted by Penny_SYMC:
Haven't you ever had to behave as if you were sane and rational even though inside you were an hysterical mess?

You know me too well to ask this. ...

I'm quoting myself to clarify something (see, this is where my sensitivity is perhaps a problem...)...

I meant *I* am -- not you. I am *always* having to behave 'as if' when I'm nervous, etc. That's what I meant.

(Note to self: stop using those danged emoticons)

I just can't help myself!

quote:

Let's talk about love though, and what that looks like when you're acting 'as if'... 'cause I suspect it's more than just making dinner. Let's talk about how it looks in other areas... and if we're feeling brave... in the bedroom.

For me acting "as if" you love someone means making the effort to do things you know your loved one would like. It doesn't mean you're not in love with them. It means you are aware of their needs and consciously doing things to meet them. Maybe an easier way of explaining it would be not taking them for granted.

As for the "in the bedroom" part...

the ability to talk freely and openly with your partner. Not to make assumptions of what s/he would say if you said/asked/did something. For me part of my problem with talking w/ my H (about anything, not just sex) was that I was afraid of his reaction. I realize now that was acting "as if" he would judge me. I needed to be acting "as if" he would understand and accept me no matter what.

quote:

I realize now that was acting "as if" he would judge me. I needed to be acting "as if" he would understand and accept me no matter what.

THAT is really really profound. Excellent thought.

P

quote:

Originally posted by Penny_SYMC:

quote:

I realize now that was acting "as if" he would judge me. I needed to be acting "as if" he would understand and accept me no matter what.

THAT is really really profound. Excellent thought.

P

I agree!

I am going to go out on a limb here, as I really do believe that some others might have questions about it but be embarrassed to ask. This was a huge problem in my first marriage, and I think it's a good question - this bedroom "as if"...

There was a time when I so mis-trusted my (first)H that the thought of making love to him literally made me sick. He kept on insisting we do it, believing that the act itself would somehow become a miracle healing.

I didn't want to, couldn't get my body to cooperate, my mind was elsewhere. I cried through at least half the attempts, and was angry after the others.

So I tried acting "as if" I wanted to make love. What did it accomplish? Not much. I felt resentful, angry and hurt.

In the end, I (honest to god) felt like I was being forced to have sex against my will - because I *should*.

To be clear, this is obviously not an issue for me now. I am speaking from memory, and all I can remember is that the "as if" feelings made me feel like I was acting dishonestly. In the end, my (now-ex)H was angry at me for pretending.

If I am misunderstanding, or misunderstood something, please let me know.

One of the problem with all the slogans and short phrases we use as reminders in 12 step programs is they can all be misinterpreted and used in unhealthy ways when we're still working on healing in an area of our lives. They are meant to be shorthand reminders, not used to beat ourselves up with. You have to trust your own feelings.

An example I might've already mentioned from a daily reading was "just for today" meaning I can handle anything for one day being misused day after day to allow someone to tolerate an intolerable situation.

Acting "as if" doesn't mean faking or lying, it means stretching outside your comfort zone to do something that you know is healthy behavior but something that needs practice to feel natural. It can be used to counter our negative self talk. For example, OK, I'm uncomfortable in social situations, so I'll go and act "as if" I'm comfortable rather than not going at all and isolating like I usually do. It's an encouragement not to give up because of fear but to "act as if" and do it anyway.

LB is right about all that stuff. I especially like the part about stretching horizons with stuff you know is healthy but are perhaps not all that comfortable with at the moment.

Some other things to keep in mind - Remember that compassionate/ethical decisions are those that put our desire to seek happiness and avoid suffering on equal footing with that of others' desire for the same. We don't always remember that this means we don't subvert our desire any more than we do others'. When it comes to sex it gets more complicated because it's not the same as going for a walk, helping someone with dishes, or joining in a recreational activity. Sex is a whole lot more personal!

I think there are a couple of things to keep in mind when thinking about this. One is the idea of 'behaving as if' when the issue is simply lack of desire. Michele Weiner-Davis talks about this quite a bit in her book The Sex Starved Marriage where one partner has a lower libido than the other, sometimes s/he just needs to go along until they get into the mood. That's a really healthy 'behave as if' situation.

The other sort, the kind you mention, is a bit more problematic. You can't behave as if you trust someone when they've given you reason to distrust and have not done anything to make it better. You can heal you - deal with the feelings of inadequacy or unlovableness - but you might have to accept that fact that this is someone who is not safe to be around. That's generally not someone we want to have sex with.

So, the question is, how do you know that if you're not really all that connected to self and you're not in a place to be making permanent decisions - how do you 'behave as if' in that sort of space. It would seem to me, and I think this is a personal decision that's going to differ depending on who you are, but it seems to me that you behave courteously, kindly, honestly, and that you keep working away at the stuff that's getting in the way of sex. If it's your own resentment, and there's almost always some of that in the mix, you whittle away at that. If it's issues of trust you raise them. If you feel like having sex you do so as long as it's safe (emotionally and otherwise) and if you don't you take your time. So...... you behave as if the relationship is one you want to preserve and nurture, you behave as if you are connected to your deepest self, you behave as if you are taking care of yourself and you see where that takes you.

P

Re-reading this for inspiration for some other writing I'm doing right now. Verrry interesting to go backwards and see where we were and how that has evolved.

Also of interest -- I did an updated version of my ethics workshop at Pagan Pride a little over a week ago and came away with a really important insight from a good friend of mine who attended. He said - and it's so applicable to what we do here - Information overload for someone who's just been traumatized (think: just finding out) is abusive and increases the trauma.

Huh, huh, huh. Very powerful thought.

Back to writing...

P

Hi Penny,

"Information overload for someone who's just been traumatized (think: just finding out) is abusive and increases the trauma."

I think this can be true. I know when my H and I started the process of reconciliation and healing, my understanding of recovery was that the most fundamental building block of recovery was openness and honesty, defined as a willingness by the FWS to answer any and all questions asked by the betrayed spouse, no matter how painful. And, as I understood it, answering the questions was something like a test that a WS would have to pass in order for recovery to proceed.

But in my case, the mere asking of the question was traumatic. Just coming up with the questions – a process that involved imagining the possible answers – was devastating. The reality was, whatever the answer, it would almost certainly increase or at least make me relive my pain.

Anyway, because I thought it was necessary for recovery, I explained the “test” to my FWH and explained the consequences of failing the test (not answering openly and honestly would mean we couldn't recover) and asked the questions. Usually by the end of the question, I was already crying.

But my H did not answer. Not a single question. He 100 percent failed the test. He didn’t give me any of the information I asked for. What he said was “the answer will hurt you and I refuse to hurt you any more given how you are right now. I will answer every and all questions you want answered, but not now, not when you are hysterical just asking.”

So I waited a month, or two, and tried again, same thing. So I waited a few more months and tried again, same thing. And so on. Finally, 13 months after we started recovery, I said I wanted to ask again, and I when I asked, I didn’t cry or become hysterical. I could just ask, calmly, and hear the answer without reliving the pain. And then, finally, he answered.

But by then, I didn’t want a lot of the answers I thought I wanted when recovery started. I didn’t want to care about those particular things anymore, knowing there was nothing that could change them. I asked a lot of questions, and I think I got open and honest answers, but there were a lot of questions I didn’t ask and I’m thankful I don’t have some of the images in my head that I would have had if I had asked some of the questions I tried to ask right after we started recovery.

To connect my experience back to the compassion discussion, you know how Stosny says that the most compassionate thing you can do for someone when that person is hurting you is to make it impossible for them to hurt you (eg., protection phase)? If that is true, how can it be compassionate to force someone to hurt you -- by making them answering questions -- particularly when you are still traumatized? I think my H's refusal to participate in this particular ritual of recovery (at least initially) spared us both a lot of suffering.

Anyway, I just thought I’d share my experience.

I hope you are well!

Pearl