Melissa, I think it is great that you saw what you needed and reached out! So what if you felt not perfect in the process - who is afterall, right?

It sounds like you lived with a lot of crazy-making with J.

Hope you are having a good night!

Melissa..

Do you and J have a formal seperation of some sort? Was anything done thru an atty? If you do, I'm wondering if there can be some kind of addendum to it that he has to allow you phone access daily.

If thats what is going to help you cope while DS is so young then it might be worth looking at.

And when he's a little older.. well I know a couple of 6 yr olds with cell phones from parents for just that purpose..

Loui

No formal separation. We did sign what is called a rule eleven agreement. It was supposed to have been submitted to the court and made into temporary orders...but both attorneys thought the other was going to do it...and neither one actually did it. I was a tad PO'd about that one.

The rule eleven didn't cover him having to allow a phone call from me each day to check on DS. Not that he would have cared...he hasn't lived up to any of the requirements of the rule eleven except the custody arrangement and the insurance for DS. Everything else he has ignored...and because a judge never signed it, it isn't actually a court order so, while it looks bad that he didn't hold up his end of the agreement, he can't be forced to do anything. My attorney is working on something to rectify the situation as we speak. Probably mediation and trying to get a final hearing. If that will take a long time we can go back and redo temporary...but that will lengthen the whole process.

Anyway as far as the phone call thing goes I think I have an answer. I am on pretty good terms with J's mom. She takes care of DS most of the time anyway...so who better to talk to about how he is doing, right? She has said that she doesn't want to be in the middle...but I am going to email her or call her and ask her to please do this one thing for me. I just need to know how he is. All I am asking is that she answer one phone call a day and let me know my baby is doing okay...it's not really putting her in the middle is it? We'll see if she goes for it.

I think if she's willing to help you out in this that would be a great temporary solution.

have a good weekend Melissa.. and do something fun.

Loui

Melissa, How are you doing? Just thinking about you.

Well...I can't say that I am doing that great. J just came and picked up DS. I asked him if he would please answer the phone when I called to check on DS this week. He repeated that he had a right not to talk to me...to not answer his phone. I asked him why he was refusing to let me know how DS is, told him that I understand his right not to talk to me...but that I also have a right to know how my son is. He said that if all I am doing is checking on DS that is fine...but that is not all I want to talk to him about. The last thing that I tried to talk to him about that wasn't related to DS was...I don't even remember. He brought up that he doesn't want us to hate each other a couple of weeks ago and said that he still loves me. I told him that I don't hate him...

I asked him to let me know what topics are off limits and he refused to say. I asked him what I had tried to talk to him about that made him uncomfortable so that I could avoid that in the future and he said he wasn't getting into it. The only reason he is doing this is because he is wrong about everything. He was wrong in what he did during our marriage, he has been wrong about how he has handled it...or not handled it, more like. The things he has done...including getting arrested and writing hot checks, lying to his parents and everyone else. He knows he is wrong and he knows that I am through pretending that he isn't wrong. I am through avoiding the truth and that I am not covering for him any more.

And it makes him angry that I am petitioning for the standard custody order to keep DS from having to deal with the chaos that J causes. To keep him from learning that the way J lives is okay. To protect him from the heartache that I know is coming. I can't stop it completely, but I can minimize it.

I just have to remember this is only three days. Three days and my baby is back home with me.

Melissa..

I'm not going to say that 'letting go' of the time that your son is with J isn't going to be difficult. It is. And the worry that goes along with that too. Until you get thru the court system with the final changes to the custody status I guess the only thing I can say is no news is good news. As long as you don't get a phone call saying there is a problem, the best you can do is assume that he is fine.

Did you speak to J's mom about having her call?

I would also suggest that for now.. unless you have to, don't talk to J about other things. Or if you must.. do it thru someone else. Talking about what went wrong or issues in your marriage..unless you're hoping for some kind of conciliation are probably not helpful for either of you right now. If its more about every day items.. maybe you can set up an email thing or a letter thing that you give him every week when he picks up your son?

So.. what can we do to help you navigate thru the next 3 days?

Loui

That's the thing Loui...I got so frustrated with his crazy non-asnwers and the lies that I don't talk to him about things outside of DS anymore.

I remembered the last time I talked to him about something other than DS. He had a brand new cell phone...we were at the house...and I have a hard time shutting the anger and everything off when I am there. I asked him why he had bought a new cell phone...one that I know would have cost over $100, if he wasn't gong to pay his bills. I kind of lost it and he told me that he wasn't discussing it. and that he was changing but I refused to see it. I confronted him about lies he had told and asked him about somethings and he lied again. I told him that is why I don't believe his is changing...because he isn't. Then I left.

Then a couple of days later he said he doesn't want us to hate each other and he still loves me. I didn't reciprocate the feelings...but I did tell him that I don't hate him. After that things were civil and codial until he got arrested and his mother and I talked about things that he had lied to her about.

He isn't mad about what I have said to him...but what I said to his mother.

I don't try to talk to him about things other than DS...because it gets me no where.

I haven't talked to J's mom yet. I will see how he does with answering the phone this week and see. If it doesn't get better I will call her and ask if she is okay with talking to me about DS.

And I have made a resolution not to talk to his mom about anything that relates to J's situation. It makes her uncomfortable and causes problems with J. It's just not worth it, even to confront the lies that J tells her and his dad. I just thought I would throw that out there before someone told me I should quit bringing her into it. We just used to be close and I could always talk to her about stuff, almost as well as my own mom. It's a hard pattern to break.

Last night J didn't answer his phone...so I called his mom. DS might be getting sick

I guess he had a decent excuse...or would have if his mom hadn't blown it for him. I even gave him an out for not answering his phone. He works for the highway department and it was snowy and icy here so when he didn't answer I called her and said that I figured he was out on the roads working and that was why he didn't answer. She told me he was actually about to go in, but was still sitting in her living room. So he deliberately refused to answer my phone call, even though I had promised him that I wouldn't ask him anything that didnt pertain to DS. So basically he is just trying to make me mad now. He is pushing until I get ugly.(Which I don't plan on doing, cause it isn't going to help...and why give him the satisfaction of knowing he has gotten to me, right?)
Why does he do this? Why can't he just act like a decent human being?

I know I can't control him...and I know it is pointless to keep getting frustrated with him over this. But I just don't understand it! And yes, I know, he's and addict, and I don't think in the same way as he does. But I don't see how this has to do with him being an addict. I think it has to do with him being manipulative and mean-spirited. I have tried everything to show him compassion and kindness. I haven't been perfect...far from it, but I have tried so hard to change the steps, hoping that his dance will change. That is the advice that I have gotten here...and I am not saying you guys are wrong...I just don't understand why it isn't working with J.

I guess his "dance" is changing...but it's gettin worse not better. And I know that now that we are getting divorced I have to let this go...but I don't know how...because I have to deal with this for the rest of my life and I don't think I can do that. I don't think I can handle dealing with his dance getting progressively worse and worse. I can't do any more to try to make things better. I did everything I knew to do in the marriage to make it better, I have done so much to keep the divorce from getting ugly, I am doing the only things I can do...and it's just getting worse!!

Why?

Melissa, sounds like J is at the very least verbally abusive. It sounds like you are frustrated to say the least!

I don't really know the advice you have been given here - I just haven't read back on your threads.

My take is that he is abusive, probably skilled at crazy-making stuff. Some people just don't get better and if they are entrenched in their abusive patterns they won't likely get better without intervention - my opinion of course. We all want to believe that everyone can change and of course that is true, they can if they chose. The thing is there are those who simply won't change.

Sometimes people with abusive patterns change when the people they have hurt change. But I have personally seen that go both ways, getting better and getting worse. But it sounds like you are keyed into that fact, that he is changing, but not neccesarily for the better.

Then what can you do?

Well, do the only thing you really can - keep yourself out of his drama, set boundaries you know you can maintain. And minimize the chaos for your DS by being grounded when he is with you. I am sure he depends on your stability. When I was divorcing first husband, I made an effort to protect my kiddos from at least my sad/angry/confused feelings by not talking bad about their dad in front of them. It took a LOT of restraint on some days, let me tell ya!!

I know how it feels to want to understand crazy behavior. Thing is there really isn't any understanding it. Asking why just serves to continue the crazy-making even when he isn't in the room to provide it. If you can, try to let go of the why question. There are just some why questions we will never know.

Sometimes the best thing to do when someone is fighting you is to stop fighting back, set boundaries and quietly maintain them.

I hope things get better for you! Divorce is a hard thing to go through, especially with a little one. {{{{{{{Melissa}}}}}}}

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My take is that he is abusive, probably skilled at crazy-making stuff

Really? Abusive? Can someone explain this to me? I am not being sarcastic or anything...I just don't see it I guess. But several people have said that J and I exhibit abusive relationship systems and behaviors. My mom said he uses classic abusive "mind tricks" for lack of a better term. My aunt wondered if he had ever been physically abusive...because now that I am away from him and everyone knows what has been going on, she can see abusive type patterns. They all talked about him isolating me...which I didn't see at the time, but looking back I get that he did. But I don't see him as abusive...just J. Please understand I am not defending him. I just think I must not have a complete picture of what verbal abuse is...cause I thought it was screaming, name calling and humiliation.

And to further on what Tiggy mentioned...

Whether he is abusive or not, he has found a button that works with you. And I would be willing to bet that in his mind.. because of the way the addict works and in agreement with what you've said before about everything happening 'to' him rather than as a result of his actions....

He is angry with you for leaving him. In his mind I would bet that he believes you did that to him. And even though you say to him it is a result of his behavior.. in his mind.. that does not count. So... this is how he 'gets back' at you doing this to him. He does the one thing he's found angers you. Not answer the phone.

So... what can you do?

Exactly as Tigggy has mentioned. Set boundaries and keep them. And maybe stop calling him. Set something up with his mother. Or take you out of the equation... have someone else call for you.

And Melissa.. asking yourself why he behaves as he does only serves to keep you in his chaos. The better question is to ask yourself why you want to even know..

Loui

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The better question is to ask yourself why you want to even know..

I guess somehow I feel that it reflects on me...the way he behaves. Even knowing logically that it isn't about me, or what I deserve...I still question that.

And a part of me wants to know if any of the good parts of J were real. Or was it all a lie? Did I really believe a lie for all these years? I know five years isn't that long...but it's almost a quarter of my life. I am still grieving the loss of what I believed I had. And maybe I feel like if it was abuse...which I should -do- know the signs of, and have warned others about so many times...maybe being stupid enough to fall for it, not see what he was doing...maybe I'm just getting what I deserve, what my actions have brought to me.

A part of me still feels responsible for him. For the him that I thought he was...and I guess I don't want to believe that he isn't that man that I believed loved me. Becuase he didn't..not really. And I loved the man I thought he was so very much. This just isn't fair.

You know Melissa..

Its those questions I believe you should look at and as ponder (oow Tiggy.. I like that word!)
Those are really the questions that need answers. Not the why does he do this or that..

but why do you...

So.. lets take them one at a time..

Why do YOU feel how he behaves is a reflection on you?

(and getting what you deserve is another issue entirely, which we'll talk about later)

5 yrs to feel like you were fooled is a long time. I was in my relationship with exSO for about 3 1/2 and I felt the same way as you. I believe that grieving what you believed you had is necessary... And whether it was an abusive situation or just living the merry go round with an addict... recovery from it is necessary.

I was helped alot when I went to Alanon for my recovery. The 12 step program was really a process for me.. and though I really didn't finish the full 12 steps then.. I think over the last 3 yrs since then I have.
Its hard to know which parts were real and which were not living in that situation. I understand completely. I was able to come to terms with it when I really examined what I either refused to look at or covered up. All the red flags that I just ignored.. and all the behaviors I made excuses for.. and all the times I covered his butt for things I should have let him take responsibility for.
I do know that underneath all that crapola, he was a sensitive, intelligent, talented person and loved me to the best of his ability. I came to terms with the fact that his ability was not enough for me. I came to terms with the fact that my belief in his abilities and potential was far greater than his own were. And I came to terms with the fact that the choice I made to leave had everything to do with the safety of my kids and my sanity. I know plenty of other people who stay in their relationships...everyone who lives with an addict has to make that decision. And leaving was mine.

Again.. it has nothing to do with what you deserve. Why would you think you 'deserve' anything less than respect, love and trust?

That part of feeling responsible has everything to do with your codependency issues. Or the feeling that you need to control things in order to make some sense or order to your life. It also has to do with not having trust.. and rightly so. So.. what would it take for you to learn how NOT to feel responsible for anyone else except yourself? (and DS until he's old enough to do that on his own).

Nope sweetie.. it isn't fair. Life is not fair. Boy... if I had a nickel for everytime I've said that over the last 50 some odd years. I'd be a wealthy woman by now...

Loui

I don't know why I feel the way I do about this. If I were to remove me and J from this story...just make it some nameless, faceless couple, or one of my sisters or friends...I would tell the girl that it is all about what is going on with him. That she couldn't have stopped it, that it was his choice, that it really has little to do with HER at all. I HAVE told people that.
I had a friend who's long-time BF was a serial cheater. And it made her feel so bad about herself because she felt like if she could just make him happy he would stop doing that to her. He intentionally always made it about how she wasn't living up to his expectations, to keep her feeling that way. I told her over and over that she had to set boundaries, make rules about how she was willing to be treated, enforce her own right to be happy, respected, and loved. I could see it so clearly there...but it gets so fuzzy when I look at a very similar picture of me and J.

And a part of me thinks...I was J's firt real long-term relationship. He was so great at the beginning. He was sweet and kind and loving. He cared so much...and somehow it has to be something I did to change him from that great guy to someone that just doesn't even care about what he does to other people. And a part of it is that he told me over and over what things I was doing wrong. He let me know what he needed from me and I never did meet those goals. But I tried...and I couldn't do it. Every time he told me that he was going elsewhere because I didn't make him happy just made it worse and so I just sucked it up and tried.

And I tried to tell him how I felt. I tried to get him to see what I needed from him to give him what he needed. But he always said that if I gave first he would give back. Only he never did...so in my mind, I must not have been doing it right, or giving enough. And so much of my heart still feels like the blame for this whole things lies with me.

Like I ruined him...broke him.

Melissa..

do you really believe that? That you ruined him or broke him?

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but it gets so fuzzy when I look at a very similar picture of me and J.

Yup, its much easier when its about someone else. But all those things you told your friend does apply to you too.

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And so much of my heart still feels like the blame for this whole things lies with me.

no.. not the whole thing sweetie.. your half. The half that is your part of the marriage lies with you. The half that is him, his part of the marriage lies with him.

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and somehow it has to be something I did to change him from that great guy to someone that just doesn't even care about what he does to other people.

ummm.. I'm thinking that he just became comfortable with you enough that he let down his guard and felt comfortable enough to behave differently than he did at first...cause you accepted him as he is..and the more you did that, the less pretense he would need to keep up. Remember an addict doesn't love themselves..there is a disconnect there. So I'm sure his number one question internally was how could you love him?.. the fear is if she really knew who I was she'd hate me.. cause I hate me.. So he behaved as he did in a true effort to be someone you would like. That sort of thing is dreadfully hard to keep up in the long term..especially if you don't believe it yourself. So as time went on and he trusted that you loved "him" as he is.. the less he tried to keep up that pretense. Its actually sort of normal and happens in relationships. The difference is the person who is not an addict comes into the relationship with a certain amount of self love and honesty. The addict comes into it full of fear and self loathing, hoping that you will fill that empty hole inside of them.

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And a part of it is that he told me over and over what things I was doing wrong.

Because again.. that empty hole he couldn't fill and he wanted you to. And you can't. No matter what you do, you cannot make someone else overcome their self loathing.

quote:

Every time he told me that he was going elsewhere because I didn't make him happy just made it worse and so I just sucked it up and tried.

And that, my dear, is all about your self esteem and your fears about you.

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But he always said that if I gave first he would give back

And do you believe that is how a healthy relationship works? What would you tell a client who's H said that to them?


oh I just noticed this above..

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They all talked about him isolating me

That is a classic addict move by the way.. as well as one from an abuser. His need to keep you from others who might see thru his veneer.. his cover and convince you to leave him. Again, that goes back to his self loathing.. which by the way.. is a classic symptom of both an addict and an abuser.

quote:

I just think I must not have a complete picture of what verbal abuse is...cause I thought it was screaming, name calling and humiliation.

oh not necessarily and not by a long shot.

My exH is an verbal abuser. He would one minute be in my face about what I said wrong or did wrong. Then when I'd cry he'd say, see.. I was right. You wouldn't cry if I was wrong. Then after I'd be crying he'd come and try and comfort me..hold me or something of that nature. And later tell me he was only trying to 'help' me. Or tell me that I need to change because of whatever reason he thought I should. And he's a great husband because he cares so much about me.

Like this seesaw of conflicting things that after a while you begin to believe that they are right and you are the crazy one.

Or he'd say things in this way.. that his actions didn't match. Now lets get a picture here for this one. I weighed maybe 105 at the time. I am 5' tall. I have been weight conscious forever..almost to a compulsive sickness I'd say actually. And he'd come up to me and pinch whatever belly I might have (cause I have one of those figures that no matter how thin small I am I have a baby pouch).. and then he'd say I look like I'm gaining weight. Or when I'd sit down to eat and take a piece of bread he'd say...do you really think you need that? Or should have that? or something like that. And then later tell me I'm beautiful.

Those are emotional and verbal abusive actions and comments. Its like he's made my D18 a nutjob about her weight... and I told him rather than tell her she's fat (which she's not by any standards).. why don't you just leave her be. See with her.. cause she's just like me.. binge weight up and down (and we're only talking here like 5-10 lbs maybe).. I'd not say anything to her. I'd go and take the chip bag out of her hands.. dump a good size portion into a bowl and say here sweetie...and she'd say thank you mommy.. I'd have probably eaten the whole bag. And I would say.. if you did I hope you'd enjoy them!!! So I never said or did anything abusive...I just taught her that its better to do portion control and if you cheat..well at least don't feel guilty and enjoy the treat.

Okay.. enough about me...

SO..

Melissa.. how about we start talking and working on those things about you? Instead of focusing on all the stuff J isn't doing to fix himself?

Loui

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do you really believe that? That you ruined him or broke him?

Maybe not him, exactly...but our marriage. I know I can' control him, but I can control me. I couldn't live up to the promise that I made to love, cherish, and honor J forever. To be there with him and for him for the rest of our lives. I made a promise and I broke it. For that I deserve whatever happens to me...including what has happened to this point.

Maybe he could tell that I didn't love him enough to stay through it...so he did it to get this whole charade over with. Maybe he knew me better than I know myself...and he just showed me who I really am. Cause I don't think I am who I thought I was, any more than he is who I thought he was.

I can't judge who anyone is...not even myself.

Yes.. you did not live up to that promise to love, cherish and honor forever. Yes you broke that. And so did he with his behavior. Why is it all you and nothing him?

Sure you could have stayed. Sure you could have gone to Alanon or Recoverynation and you could have learned how to deal with an addict and you could have tried to protect your son from his behavior.

Absolutely...you could have done all that.

So tell me.. why did you not? (and I'm not asking this to make you feel guilty...I'm asking this because its necessary for you to come to terms with your decisions and why you made them)

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Maybe he could tell that I didn't love him enough to stay through it

Do you really believe you didn't stay 'through' it because you didn't love him enough? Why?

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Maybe he knew me better than I know myself...and he just showed me who I really am

And just exactly how did he do that? By being an addict? By not keeping his agreements or your marriage vows for that matter? Explain if you can.

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Cause I don't think I am who I thought I was, any more than he is who I thought he was.

Really? Then who do you think you are? And what you think he thought you were?

Loui

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Why is it all you and nothing him?

Okay Loui...I talk about J and you say I should talk about me...then I talk about me and you say I should talk about J...who are we talking about here...isn't this all about ME!! Just Kidding. I am trying to lighten the mood, since all I seem to be able to do today is cry at my desk at work.

I guess the reason that I heap it more on me is a part of me knows that I should have kept my promise regardless of what he did. There is no escape clause in the marriage vows. No "I will if you will" agreement.

quote:

Sure you could have stayed. Sure you could have gone to Alanon or Recoverynation and you could have learned how to deal with an addict and you could have tried to protect your son from his behavior.

Absolutely...you could have done all that.

So tell me.. why did you not?

I don't really know why...and that sounds stupid. I simply couldn't stay. Mostly for my son. I know that if I hadn't had to take into account the damage that living in that environment would do to DS I would have lived that way much longer. But I couldn't tell DS that honesty is important and live a huge lie everyday, right in front of him. I also couldn't see letting J's selfishness and dangerous impulsivity rule a home and cause instability for my baby. He didn't need to grow up in that. But now I don't know how I can teach him to keep his promises after I have given a huge example of doing just the opposite of that...on the most important promise of a lifetime.

quote:

Do you really believe you didn't stay 'through' it because you didn't love him enough? Why?

If I had loved him the way that I promised to, it wouldn't have mattered what he did. I would still be there.

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And just exactly how did he do that? By being an addict? By not keeping his agreements or your marriage vows for that matter? Explain if you can.

I am a pretty open book to the people that I allow in my life. I think maybe the awful parts of who he is identified with the awful parts of me. He seems to draw out the worst parts of me. The uncontrolable anger, sadness, fear. Those deepest parts of me that I don't even know that well seem to just boil up when I am around him. I wonder if he saw that terrible side of me and thought that since I am "bad" deep inside he could be "bad" toward me and it wouldn't matter because neither of us are any better than the other.
Wow, can I just say that I never really realized that these thoughts were swirling inside of me...until just now. It was just a nebulous angst...but now I have found words for it...and it makes sense in some creepy way...but it also makes no sense at all.

Sometimes I think I might have actually lost my mind.

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Sometimes I think I might have actually lost my mind.

heh heh heh... I don't miss mine at all

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isn't this all about ME!!

By Jove.. I think she's Got It!!

I'm sorry you're crying at work sweetie... I did that alot too. And isn't it weird how no one doesn't notice at all.. or if they do they just don't have the courage to ask if you're okay? I remember thinking that I must work with a bunch of blind wusses...

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I simply couldn't stay. Mostly for my son

Do you know that was the exact reason I didn't stay either? For my kids...I knew that having him live with us was going to be inherently damaging to them. And I wasn't willing to risk it.

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But now I don't know how I can teach him to keep his promises after I have given a huge example of doing just the opposite of that...on the most important promise of a lifetime.

Ya know Melissa, there will be plenty of time and plenty of examples that you will live that will show him the value of keeping a promise. And his father will have the same opportunity to do so as well. This is something that will take a long time for him to come to terms with, but eventually, he will see who keeps their promises on a regular basis and who doesn't. And if his father one day gets his act together and goes into recovery or not...he'll come to understand all the reasons things happened the way they did. Lessons like that take a long time to be taught and to be learned. This one thing, is not the make or break lesson in your son's life. How you behave and how his father behaves on a regular basis is.

And you know whats funny.. when I tell my kids how guilty I feel sometimes for ending our marriage, they look at me and say I shouldn't. After 8 yrs and they've grown up in that time..and they've come to see who their dad is and who their mom is.. they really do understand. And certainly still have learned the lesson in the value of keeping a promise.

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If I had loved him the way that I promised to, it wouldn't have mattered what he did. I would still be there.

hmmm.. are you saying here that you didn't love him in the way that you promised to? And are you saying that you promised to accept unconditionally that you would live a life with him that included lies and addictions and no trust. Is that what you promised as part of your vows?

Yes.. the part about in sickness and in health..yes you did. And addiction is a sickness, I'll grant you that.

So.. in this you will have to come to terms with yourself and your choices. If you are unable or unwilling to do so.. then you need to look at what it would take to resume your marriage. Knowing that how you behave and what you do will have to change. And knowing that the possibility exists that J will change or he might not.

Now truth be told.. I have said many times.. that if I was the person I am now, back then.. I'd still be married. Unfortunately, in order for me to have become this person.. I did need to do what I did. I don't think I could have become the 'me' I am now if I had stayed. I didn't have the tools.

Do you think you do have the tools? Are you willing to do what would be necessary in order to make your marriage as safe as humanly possible given the circumstances for you and your son? If so.. maybe then you do need to reconsider? If not.. then its time to start accepting the choice you made.

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I think maybe the awful parts of who he is identified with the awful parts of me. He seems to draw out the worst parts of me. The uncontrolable anger, sadness, fear. Those deepest parts of me that I don't even know that well seem to just boil up when I am around him. I wonder if he saw that terrible side of me and thought that since I am "bad" deep inside he could be "bad" toward me and it wouldn't matter because neither of us are any better than the other.

Yanno Melissa, its a funny thing. I became this person I didn't recognize after living w/exSO and his addiction. Especially when the full weight of that and the infidelity (which I could never prove..but I'm 100% sure of) turned me into a stark raving lunatic. Go and read my early posts here. Scary that!! I realize now I was trying to control a situation that was beyond my control. I was living in this nightmarish merry go round of no trust, no safety, no support, ever wondering why he behaved as he did. And not knowing what I was doing (or not) that was contributing to it. I really became this:



And I'm sure it was in direct response to his behavior... as well as me not understanding what was happening. So I joined Alanon.. and I learned about the 12 steps and I regained some control in my life... and let go of his.

Unfortunately.. because I knew he was bringing drugs into the house..he was a direct threat to my children and I could not have that.

Your H.. may not be doing that...but his behavior concerning porn and women..is a direct threat to the teaching/learning of your son. Like you said.. you do not want him learning the destructive behaviors that J has.

So... I understand your feeling guilty...I think though you need to look at the greater/bigger picture here.

nebulous angst.. I like that...sorta like this:
or

Loui