I don't get the meditation. I have tried it before...it didn't work then and I can't get it to work now.

All it does is make me more mad because it isn't helping. I am not feeling any less angry about the whole situation from listening to it.

I feel powerless when I am angry and powerless when I try not to be angry. I feel worthless and like a piece of trash.

I feel stupid for not playing hard ball, for letting him continue to get everything he wants and provide nothing in return.

I feel too much. It was easier when I was still relatively numb to his actions. When I was still in shock. Unfortunately that didn't last long, and now I am trying not to feel because the feelings don't help anything. They just make it all worse.

He just get to keep moving forward in his life, doing what ever he wants, getting everything he wants and I am stuck in the ruins of my life.

Hey Melissa,

I am so sorry for you in this pain. I am further down the line than you are (x left nearly 2 and a half years ago) but there are days when I still don't get it.

The thing that I find strange, is that something or someone is making you feel like you don't have the right to be angry. I got repeatedly told that I should be angry! Just recently my x's cousin offered to hit him for me! How you feel, is how you feel. Go throught it. Release it. Do what you have to do, but be careful of the damage you do with it. Find a good friend who will listen to you, post here saying that you are not looking for answers, you just need to release your anger.

And look at the things that make you feel better. After my son died, we talked with other parents about a 'first aid box'. Mine contained hot baths, chocolate, 'rescue remedy' and alcohol.

Last year saw my kids leave home, my first solo holiday, my divorce and the sale of our house - I move next week. This time in my first aid box were some brilliant friends and a stunning album by a British group called Elbow. This album lifted my spirits throughout the year and I am still listening to it. Look at what makes you feel better and do more of that. Like me, you will probably never get it, but I promise you, you will start to feel joy and peace again.

Wishing you some of that soon because I know how much you need it,

Jules

Thanks Jules. I hope that peace and joy return soon. I have almost forgotten what a day with no anger, sadness or pain is like.

The reason that I feel that people think that I shouldn't be angry is that I am "co-dependent".

Apparently as a co-dependent my anger is just a way to keep myself embroiled in J's chaos...and not an actual real, justified feeling. Regardless of what he has done to hurt me...well it just shouldn't matter because I have to realize that my "codependecy illness" is really what hurts me not the fact that he lies and takes advantage and uses people and never has to deal with consequences. That isn't a real reason to be angry and I should just detach from him entirely...even though his actions have completely destroyed me and my entire life.

I wish that I felt like being angry was going to help. I wish that I had people that could support me in my anger...without pushing me to the next level of being angry.

I wish I had someone that could wrap thier arms around me and let me cry out all the frustration and anger and pain.

Just to clarify...the posts from this morning aren't really directed at any person here. I have just been reading about co-dependency as I have been told that I have issues in this area. It makes me feel like some kind of freak for trying to be a good person and a good wife.

It also seems to say that anger is a waste of energy and that I should just stop being angry or worrying about how what he does affects me.

I am a little frustrated with this codependency idea.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MelissaK24,

{{{{MELISSA}}}

You have every right to feel what you feel. Anger, sadness, fear.. all of it. What is true about it is you have to really feel it, process it, accept it and let it go. So I hope you don't feel we've told you you 'shouldn't' be angry. By all means go for it.

But I agree 100% with what Jules advised. "Do what you have to do, but be careful of the damage you do with it.". It causes alot stress and pain when you are constantly focused on all that anger and feelings of powerlessness. It wreaks havoc on your present... you know what I mean?

I like Jules idea of a 'first aid box'. That is an excellent idea on how to self soothe. Cause thats what you need to do when you get into that state of anger. Thats what the meditations and learning how to do Heals is all about. About finding the part of you that isn't about the anger and the pain and connecting with it. So you can make decisions and go forward with the things you have to not from a place of pain, but from a place of peace and power.

Its not about disregarding your feelings or discounting them with the shouldn'ts at all.

And I know that it 'feels' like he gets to just dance off into the sunset and leave the wake of disaster in his path. The truth of it is he has his own pain to deal with. And he has no room for yours obviously... and you have no room for his at the present time. For you...you have no choice but to focus on what it takes to get thru the mess. That is the crappy part. Your codependency issues have nothing to do with your grieving methods. They do have something to do with your recovery and how you choose to go forward in your association with J. But thats about it.

quote:

I wish I had someone that could wrap thier arms around me and let me cry out all the frustration and anger and pain.

Melissa.. if I could be there I would..

Loui

quote:

The truth of it is he has his own pain to deal with. And he has no room for yours obviously... and you have no room for his at the present time.

You know you are exactly right. I have no room in my head, my heart or anywhere else to worry about his pain. Why should I? I tried to be concerned for his pain and how the decisions I was making were affecting him. I tried to remember that he is a human being that has feelings and need consideration from me. I tried to account for his hurt and fear. And where did it get me?

Screwed is where it got me.

SO I think I am done worrying about him and his pain. Cause you know what? He caused all of the pain for himself. I did everything I could to prevent the pain. I was the one working to remedy the pain. He caused it and deserves to feel pain for the person he is and the way he treats people.

so.. what do you want to do about managing yours? And dealing/processing your pain and anger?

what things do you want to put into that "first aid box" that will help soothe you when you feel like things are out of control and your anger/pain is about to consume you.

How and what do you want to do in order to focus on the things that you have to and not the things you can't change or control?

Loui

You know what I really want to do? What would really make me feel better all around?

I would like to scream and throw things. I would like to cry and yell and tell J exacly what I think of him. I would love to let the full force of my anger hit him like a ton of bricks. And I would like for him to be gagged and tied up so that he has to sit there and listen, without interrupting or walking away.
I would like for him to be forced to see what he has done and really deal with the reaction that I have been so careful to control much of the time.

I would like to run away and never come back. I would like to sit on a beach and watch my baby play in the sand and never have to worry about J ever again. The closest I am going to get is a few days grace from J and a sandbox. I guess I will take what I can get.

OK, throw things. Smashing crockery is a good thing (the greeks do it to celebrate!). Hit things - I'm sure I have mentioned this before, but my dd was recommended to hit the yellow pages (do you have those too? big trade phone books?) with a wooden spoon after my mum died - she was 5. Someone else says beat a photograph of your x (and ow) with something, to release anger. Or you could try kick boxing. A walk used to help me.

I haven't explored the whole codependency issue, though I think it would have some relevance for me. You are in pain NOW, so don't analyse too much. You aren't ready. Release the anger anyway you can, and be good to yourself anyway you can. I remember being told to be kind to myself and I felt it so hard. But now as I head home from work, I think of something little I can do to value me - one day it was remembering that I had a couple of really nice biscuits left in the house!

Melissa, I am truly sorry you are in this pain. It is still there in the background in my life and hearing your anguish brings it back. But you really, really will start to feel better in time. You just have to learn to manage the NOW. Posting here will help, let us know what we can do to support you,

Sending you a virtual hug from England,
good wishes
Jules

Thank you so much Jules and Loui for being there and supporting me. It means more than you will ever know. I know I have been acting like a spoiled brat lately.

It's always worse when DS is with J.

Yesterday was one of the worst days I have had since this whole things started. I think that I have worked so hard at keeping the anger at bay...cause that's what I do, I have to be the strong one, the tough one, the nice one, the bigger person. Some of that is my own personality, but some of it is conditioning and maybe even a misunderstanding of things I have been told. And it has just built up and built up. And lately is has been kind of leaking out at the edges and sometimes exploding here and there. I still feel like the worst of it probably hasn't even come out yet. But hopefully I can let it out a little at at time and difuse a huge blow up. I just have to be careful where I am and who I let see that. DS definitely doesn't need to see it and even thought I would like to I can't direct it at J. But I can't let it out on the people in my life either...cause that's not fair to them. I really shouldn't let it out on you guys here either. And I am really sorry that you guys keep getting the brunt of my frustration and my pain.

If you can believe it things got worse for me after I got off work. I went to pick DS up from J's mom last night @ 6:00. And it all just hit me at once. I don't know why but every week when I go to pick him up DS cries when I walk in the door. He doesn't want to go with me, he cries and clings to J's mom. And sometimes he even runs away when I try to put his coat on.

The really hard part about this is when J comes to get DS from me he goes to his dad all smiles. He runs to him and puts he coat on. He leaves happy.

It breaks my heart. J didn't love me...and sometimes I think that DS is following in his footsteps. I am his mother...and he doesn't even get excited to see me after days without me. It hurts so bad when he cries when he sees me instead of running to me and hugging me and being excited to go home with me.

What am I doing wrong that my own baby doesn't love me more than his grandmother...or at least as much.

This hurts so much. I love that baby more than anything in this world. He is my everything. I would give anything up to protect him or make him happy. What is wrong with me that no body can love me...not even my baby?

oops sorry, double post

Sweetie..he's young. And throughout his life there will be times when he clings to you or to J or to his mom. It will ebb and flow and move around. Don't take it to heart. When he's older and more aware of everything going on..he'll know who is there for him and trust those people. Whoever they are.

I just want to let you know that I may be a bit irratic showing up here for awhile. I've had some really.. shall we say... hard knocks this week.

but I will post as I can and you'll be in my thoughts...it will all work out in the end.. it will.

Loui

J and I had another confrontation tonight.

He always gets mad at me for the way I talk to him. I am not hateful, I don't cuss at him, I don't feel like I am hateful at all.

Its just that before...when we would talk about hard things, before I left...I never just told him something straight out. I was never blunt and to the point, I never stood up to myself cause I was afraid to make him mad at me...cause it might make him look for someone else, or leave me, or not love me anymore. So I would sugarcoat things or make "suggestions" and then he would pretty much do what he wanted. Now I just say it...cause obviously being nice and docile about it didn't work. And he will still do whatever he wants pretty much, so I might as well say what I really mean, right?

SO he got mad at me and told me that he isn't in as good a position as me. WTH does that even mean? I am screwed becuase of him...in basically the same position, or we would be if he would actually be responsible. I just handle my stuff like an adult...unlike him.
And I told him as much and said that he is the cause of the problems anyway...so basically tough for him.

And he let loose with another reason why it is all my fault. I didn't pay enough attention to him. You know between my two or three jobs that I held most of our relationship...and school...and keeping a house (not exceptionally well, I'll grant you..but still)...oh yeah and having a baby...not to mention he was NEVER HOME. I begged him to spend time with me, to stay home and be with me, to pay attention to me other times than when he wanted some...and apparently I am the one that didn't pay enough attention. It's all my fault. I was the crappy spouse in this marriage.

And the most disgusting part is hearing that from him still, even after everything, makes me question what I could have done differently...what I could have given up to give him more of my time...how I could have been a better, more attentive wife for him so that he wouldn't have done this. It is absolutely DISGUSTING that a part of me still believes it when he says that. It still strikes a part of me that says I was responsible, at fault, that I could have done better, been more, and stopped him from straying. Why does it still hit me like that?

And I would never let on to him that it still gets to me...but it does.

I read a good book about relationships which talked about men's bodies being flooded with cortisol when they are attacked. They literally can't think. I know that this is what happened to my x when I would get angry with him after he left. On two occasions he told me that he shook for half an hour after - while being comforted by OW no doubt! See, it didn't do me any good.

What you say about your home life sounds very much like mine. I was preoccupied with the kids (who were both experiencing panic attacks) and my training which I undertook to help out with family finances! I remember x saying to me that I seem as though I am not listening anymore. And it was true. I can now see that I contributed to what went wrong because he had someone to listen to him and value him when I was preoccupied. Did I do wrong? no. He was not there for me, when he should have been. There are things that I should have done differently, but so should he. It doesn't help in the short term because I have lost my marriage. But it is a live and learn situation. If there is a next time, I will know better.

However, this doesn't help you now. Maybe the problem with your son is one of transitions. I'm sure you prepare him to meet his dad. Does his mum prepare him to meet you? Remind him that you are coming at such a time? Think of something that he will tell you when he sees you ect? He might be struggling with the changes that have happened, that he feels he has no control over. Does he have something of yours to keep when he is not with you, to give him security?

I might be barking up the wrong tree (do you use that phrase?) but it is something to think about. My DD used to want to live with her school dinner lady and my son used to ask me 'what happened to my real mummy?' I was in a secure familiy situation then so it didn't really upset me too much. They both love me to bits now, by the way!
Jules

Just read your post about how DS behaves I'm not experienced enough to say much of use for sure, but I'll put some suggestions out there. I know it hurts though, at the moment it's bugging the heck out of me that EVERYBODY can soothe my little bubbus better than me! Literally everybody - she's happier with complete strangers than she is with me. She screams with me and nobody else. And she couldn't even tell - or else care about - the difference between my sister in laws boob and mine. I'm literally just the milk machine to her - interchangeable with any milk machine! She looks everyone else in the eye but me! Man I thought babies were supposed to like their mothers

ANYWAY... what I was thinking with your post is... maybe it's because you're home. My niece loves H and I and acts really happy when we come visit. She gets excited by coming to stay the night with us. She complains when her mum comes to take her home. But it's not because she likes us better than her mum. It's because her mum is HOME, whereas we are PLAY. If she seriously thought her mum would ever not be there - she'd never let her go so easily. She's not like that with her dad - because there were some issues in the past and he abandoned them for a period - so she doesn't feel as secure of his presence. But her mum - she acts like she can take or leave, yet they are very very close. I think it's to do with that whole thing where a securely attached child feels confident exploring. An anxious child is the one who might cling to his mother and fear separation. Maybe it means you've done a good job fostering a secure bond with DS? I'm not sure exactly how it works but maybe thats possible?

I have two daughters, a ten year old and a six year old. I think mags hit on something. My girls have always loved going places with other people. Staying the night, going on trips, since dd10 was about 4 or 5 she would spend a week at a time with my mom. I used to believe that I was a horrible mom for my kids to want to go spend so much time with other people. Then it dawned on me, I am not a horrible mother at all. I have raised my girls to be confident and comfortable away from me. See that's part of our job as parents. To teach them to be independent and know they are ok.

The other part of it is, when they are with us, we still have a house to keep, work, chores etc. When they are off visiting relatives even if it's for a couple of days, the relatives tend to put that stuff to the side because they know they will have time to do it when the kids are done.

Try to choose the believe that your lil man is confident and knows that mommy is always going to be there, that's why he is ok being without you.

You know, have taken child development classes and I have told myself that very thing about attachment a million times.

Strangely both of MIL's son's are the same way with her. She fostered such a "needy" type of dynamic with her boys that neither of them spent the night at anyone else's house (not even family members) until they were like 12 or 13! I think maybe it is just the way that she interacted with them and now she does the same with DS. On top of that dynamic is the fact that DS completely rules the roost at her house. He gets to do pretty much whatever he wants...very few no's are said and then enforced. He also knows that if he whines enough with them they will give in to what he wants pretty much every time. Mommy is less willing to allow him to become a spoiled brat. I want him to know that he can't have everything that he wants exactly when he wants it. I want him to have rules and discipline and consequences for wrong doing. Of course as he is little it has a lot more to with me just holding my ground even when he cries.

Intellectually I know it isn't that he doesn't love me...it's just that it still hurts a little when my baby cries and runs from me instead of being excited to see me.

Thanks Jules, Mags and Stuck...I really appreciate your encouragement. It helps to be reminded of things like that.

It's official. The house is being foreclosed on. The account has been sent to collections and the house is to be sold at the county auction on April 7. It's almost anticlimactic...it's been coming for so long.

J finally gave me the address of his "new place"...funny thing though he wouldn't tell me just where it is at. I didn't recognize the street name and wondered where it was...all he would say is out in the country. Well our city is surrounded on all sides by "country". This gave me not idea at all. I wasn't even really asking as a serious thought it was more of an incidental type thing...if I need directions there is this neat new thing called the internet! But he was very secretive about it.

It makes me want to know what is going on that he doesn't want me to know about. Of course it could be that he just really wants me to keep asking about it and worrying about him and what he is doing. So now my biggest thing is concentrating on not obsessing over what is going on with him. It's just irritating...all the childish little passive aggressive games he plays.

My sister and I want to try to get a place together soon. Originally the plan was for May, but with the divorce not moving forward very quickly and the added pressure of paying an atty...well it probably won't happen then. I am just too paranoid about running short on funds. I lived in fear of not being able to pay bills from day to day for years w/ J. I can't do it again...and I won't put my sister in that position. So maybe by September we will be moved out in our own place...if the divorce is not final by then I may lose my mind.

Wednesdays are so hard. I guess it is the end of the time without DS and I have had all I can take of being away from him...and I still have hours of work to deal with before I can see him.

I spoke with J last night...basic talk about the house and his car. He got mad at me for "expecting him to do everything the way I think he should". According to him I think his is wrong for listing the house a different way that I think he should have. I actually didn't care how he did it...just that it got done. He told me specifically that he would put a sign in the yard with his number on it. Instead he put it on Craig's List and didn't tell me. So I thought he hadn't listed it or advertised it until he told me that he was showing it to a lady that was interested. I expected the sign in the yard...this works too, so I don't really care...but he gets mad because I expected him to do what he TOLD me he would do. I never told him he had to do it that way and now that he has is done another way I don't care...but I expected the original plan because that is all he told me about! How am I wrong?

He informed me last night that all he cares about is our son...only his words don't match up with his actions over the last several months or years...and he thinks that he is a great dad that puts his son first. He isn't...and I can't get him to see why I think that way.

I give up. No matter what I say J will disagree with me...even if he knows he is wrong...just to disagree. And this attitude is going to make life better for our child? NO! ARGH!! I just want to see DS.

Hey there MK24,

Thanks for your kind words. It does make a difference knowing that someone understands how you feel. I can't even imagine how awful it must be to have be separated from you little one for so long and be treated the way J treats you. Or to have to deal with him on such a regular basis. At least with me we are so far apart when mine gets here I probably will only see him once every couple of months. You are right about the absolute frustration that comes with words not matching actions at times I feel like pulling out my hair and screaming wtf are you crazy! It's like they suck you into their world of crazy and it's all you can do to stop yourself from getting lost there. One day I asked my H what the weather was like on the planet Mark? He didn't get it.

Do you think that maybe he gives you such a hard time as way to get a rise out of you? Maybe checking to see if you still care. I don't know if he is that kind of person but I have certainly known people who do things like that. It's kind of like their way of controlling at least a little part of you. If they know they can get to you then they still have power in your life. I could be way off, but it was a thought that crossed my mind when I read your post.

Hang in there just a few more hours and you get to see your little one- I still have 11 weeks of cooking left before I get to meet mine.

Hey DF...thanks for jumping over to my thread.

I have no doubt that the reason that J acts the way he does is a bid for attention and control. He figures that if he baits me and I take the bait he will have control over my thoughts and will get the extra attention that he wants from me. That is why I work really hard at staying calm on the phone and let him be the one that gets all worked up...and then I scream and yank my hair out once I have hung up the phone.

We rarely have any discussions face to face...because he puts a stop to that by always telling me that he doesn't want to get into it right now...mostly cause he knows I can tell when he is lying if I can see his face. And I refuse to have a conversation with him face to face that isn't witnessed by someone, and he won't talk in front of my parents and isn't even there when I am around his parents. He is very adept at avoiding issues that he doesn't feel he can use to control me.

I am amazed all the time at how little I knew about the person I married. He isn't at all the person that I believed him to be.

Anyway enough about me...I do that alot, so just smack me and tell me to focus on others!

How are you and the little one doing? Do you know yet if it is a boy or a girl?