So much for handling things well. That's what I get for being proud of myself. J and I had...well, not really an arguement, more like a confrontation or discussion. Okay so it was basically an arguement...with absolutely no resolution.

I called him to check on DS, and he didn't answer, so I left a message, perfectly nice asking that he give me a call when he gets a minute. Not hateful or mean or anything. Also not really expecting him return my call, but that's nothing I can control so I just go on about my business.

He did call me back, so I asked about DS and then asked about taxes...does he know a time we can sit down to file them, etc. He says no, but he will let me know. Okay, that's fine. I then bring up working on a gradual shift from our current custody agreement to the new one, and I bring up that I had talked with his mom a little and started to tell him the same stuff that I told her. He cuts me off and says, with this hateful tone that he has had the whole conversation (which I was ignoring beautifully) and says "I'm aware of the conversation Melissa!". So I just told him that it was fine, but since DS is OUR son, not mine and his mom's it might be best if we discuss it between the two of us instead of using his mom as a go between. So then he tells me that he doesn't know how I expect him to be happy about our current situation. I told him that I didn't expect him to be happy, but I also didn't expect him to treat me badly over it. I reminded him that I didn't force him to agree to anything that he had made the choice of his own free will.

It just disolved from there, with him telling me that he only agreed because he would have gotten screwed in court, to which I replied that was also not my fault. Then he went into how he had it so hard money-wise and I didn't becuase I was living the "mommy and daddy". I reminded him that while I was living with my parents I was also paying half of the house payment for the house he lived in, two-thirds of the utilities, all my credit card bills all without overdrafting my account or writing hot checks...unlike him, who didn't pay any bills and did keep his account in overdraft 90% of the time and did write hot checks and got arrested.

He then told me that it wasn't all his fault, to which I replied with something that probably violates TOS...not real proud of that, but I am so tired of hearing how the things that J CHOOSES to do are not his resposibility.

He also informed me that calling him and being civil is wrong somehow...even though that is specifically what he said he wants, just a couple of weeks ago. He said that I am acting like nothing happened. I told him that when I acted like something happened and was continuing to happen he said I was treating him badly, but when I tried to be civil and cordial and courteous that is wrong too?? WTH!

It just kept going and I tried to reply logically and calmly to everything he said...which I did okay on for the most part (except for above when I wasn't real nice).

By the time I got off the phone I was so angry and upset that I was shaking. Everything was once again piled at my feet. I didn't do this TO HIM...I did it to protect MYSELF and DS. Why does he only see how it negatively affects him? Why can't he see how his actions are ultimately the cause for me not trusting him or seeing him as responsible? And yes I know that it is because he is looking at it from a different perspective (for lack of a better word the addicts perspective). Though I still don't know that it is an addiction, but more of a faulty thought process that he grew up hearing because of the fact that his parents overcompensated for him after was almost killed. It is more than anything a sense of entitlement to whatever he decides he wants...not so much about core hurts.

And even knowing all this...it doesn't make it any less frustrating. Sometimes I can remind myself about it and step back from him...but after a while of taking the abuse and hearing the backhanded ways of telling me it's my fault even as he is supposedly taking responsibility...it just gets to be too much to deal with. Why should I let him treat me this way without defending myself and speaking truth!

I am glad you're getting stronger and more solid, Melissa. Even on a day when you respond in kind somewhat, it's less and less.

What happened to him that nearly killed him, if you don't mind me asking? Did it leave any permanent after-effects?

He was hit by a car when he was 10 yrs old. He broke his femur, tibia and fibula and had a closed head injury which caused a coma for 3 days. The lasting effects are minimal as far as I can tell...at least medically speaking. Relationally speaking I think what happened is his parents were so glad, relieved, happy that he recovered that they overcompensated by giving him whatever he wanted. The excuse of he was almost killed, he has had a hard time, etc was thrown out for a lot of things that he had to deal with. I am not saying that I wouldn't have done the same. If I were to come that close to losing DS I don't know how I would react. The problem is that he is now stuck at the maturity of an overindulged 10 yr old. They never seemed to expect him to mature or learn how to relate in any new ways after that. Of course to some extent he did, but he also learned that he could do pretty much whatever he wanted and then somehow thrown out there that it somehow circled back to his accident.

For example, when we were first going to counseling and his mom had just found out they talked about how maybe the brain injury had inhibited the judgement and impulse control of his brain...which could be true, except when he knows he has to control himself he does. He can exhibit control when it serves his purposes, but if he feels like doing something and it doesn't help him to control himself then he doesn't, and if it back fires on him...well, it must be something to do with his brain injury.

I sound like such a callous jerk, but that excuse was used on me a few times...and I detected a pattern.

Wow...life and people never cease to amaze me.

J's aunt found me on Facebook yesterday and sent me a friend request. I accepted and told her that it was nice to hear from her. She said that she didn't know what happened with me and J, but she wanted me to know she was thinking of me and praying for me. I told her that I wasn't sure if I should tell her what happened as it would probably upset J and I didn't want her to think that I was trying to make him look bad.

She then told me that she didn't need or what to know the story...as far as she was concerned I was and would always be a part of thier family.

Almost every member of J's family has reacted the same way. Apparently they trust that there was some serious issue...and they are willing to care about me even without actual family ties. It always catches me off guard and always warms my heart.

Melissa... its interesting how that happens eh? One of my closest aunt and uncles are actually my exH's. They are like a another set of parents and recently they told my exMIL that no matter what the circumstances of our marriage and its demise they will always love me and my exH.

And usually people aren't blind..they can see sometimes better than those of us in the thick of things.

Loui

I guess in some ways I have just seen that families hate each other as a result of divorce. Most of the time, in my observation, people talk about how evil the exspouse/exin-laws are. I just haven't met that many that can still get along, much less still care about each other. And to be completely honest none of my family is real fond of J...and apparently never have been, not even when we were dating and married.

I guess that is part of the difference. I have always gotten along very well with J's family...we truly all love each other very much. Not quite the same with J and my family...plus my family knows all that went on and blame J for our marriage failing. Even when I have explained to them that it can't be 100% his fault...they still feel that he is at least more at fault for our situation.

I wonder if it has to do with the fact that I haven't antagonized J...where as he has. Who knows...I am just glad that they don't all hate me.

Hi -

I really hear your frustration trying to move forward and create a less chaotic life for DS. I think you're doing fine. I found more peace, and in turn I had more grace to offer, as I learned of and practiced detachment. There is a good thread or article here. I'm short on time or I'd find it, sorry.

I think the lack of animosity from J's family is a blessing. It seems to confirm that you're on some kind of decent track. I just wouldn't count on it. I also had great support from my ex's family up until ex had to actually do anything, like move out, cooperate with drug tests, etc...

ATB,
SB

quote:

I also had great support from my ex's family up until ex had to actually do anything, like move out, cooperate with drug tests, etc...

Yeah, I kind of wonder how exactly it will go once he has to start paying CS and following the agreement he made. He isn't happy with the agreement so I figure there will be a load of resentment...and I am worried that it will bleed over into his family. As nice as it is to know that they don't hate me...if they did it would be okay, cause I did what I needed to do for me and DS. And as long as they don't feed that resentment into my son they can be mad at me all they want...and so can J.

I am just thankful at this point that it isn't going that way.

Melissa -

I'm glad things are well at this point also, it's nice for DS also; more continuity.

Addict behavior is what it is. Nothing will change until they want it and do it for themselves. Detaching saves emotional and other resources/energy for healing. They are free to have an opinion, free to speak it. However, they're not free to intrude on your sense of peace unless you allow it.

When the conversation starts drifting that way I try once to get back on topic, say what time to pick up DS, and then "Please excuse me I have to go"... and I do end the conversation.
It seems to work better.

Keep up the good work!
SB

Well I don't know what is going on with J...but he has suddenly done a 180 degree turn around. Suddenly he is friendly, accomodating, calling me to tell me that DS is okay, where as a week ago he told me that he didn't want me to call and check on DS at all.

Something is up....he is working some angle and I just wonder when the othe shoe will drop.

Then a part of me feels guilty for automatically expecting this to be a lie or manipulation. He could really be changing his life...but I have seen it all before. And now we are just a couple of weeks away from a finalized divorce....and there is always a last ditch effort to convince me he is different or something.

And then I remember that worrying about it, obsessing over it, wondering what he is up to...all of that leaves me in a horrible state of confusion and upset...while I could have been enjoying the respite from the angry, swearing, punishing J.

But I am worried that if I let my guard down by relaxing and not expecting the unexpected with J he will worm his way in and manipulate me again...so what am I supposed to do?

Melissa, You can't be manipulated if you don't allow it to happen.

Instead of focusing on whether or not he's lying or planning something.. just accept the behavior as it is and don't expect anything more or less. If he does the things he should be doing thank him for it and accept it. If he does things that he shouldn't be doing then as much as you can detach from it and let it go.

So instead of worrying about what he is or might be going to do... focus on what you are doing. It took me a long time to learn how to do that but now.. when exH behaves poorly I get away from him (whether its in person, or on the phone) as quickly as possible and reiterate to myself.. yes.. this is exactly the reason why I had to leave. When he behaves nicely then I respond nicely. No expectations, no wondering about what he'll be like.

Your situation with J & the respective families is very similar to what my situation is and has been. H made it perfectly clear he wasn't crazy about my siblings..whereas his and I were very close.. and remained so after the divorce. Mostly because of my consistant efforts. The aunt and uncle are a seperate item because of the experiences they've had in their lives..they chose to behave as they do with me and with exH..but they are rare people in that.

My family has no love loss for my exH...and my parents would feel differently if exH had behaved differently over the last 8 yrs of my divorce. His parents and I, though we didn't talk often, always have held a great fondness thru it all. And don't kid yourselves..parents know their kids. ExH's parents know that he is not an easy person to love or live with. I'm sure deep down underneath it all J's family knows the same thing. Blood may be thicker than water in many cases... but what comes with that is the knowledge of exactly who you are as well.

Loui

Hi -

Detachment - (I still didn't look up the link I liked)

Detachment will help you not see, or try so hard to see though another's actions. Their actions, and consequences belong to them. We don't need to get so involved, interested in their thinking, talk, etc... It just is. Like the weather kind of, we don't need to get too excited about it.

If the changes become more solid over time then one might re-evaluate.

Hang in there!

ATB,
SB

To be honest I am scared of J when he is nice to me. How screwed up is that? It's just that he is so much more dangerous to me when he is nice and my defenses are down. Nice with J ofen (usually) means manipulation.

And he has this thing about touching. When he is really trying to convince me that he is being extra nice he touches me, hugs or whatever. It makes me uncomfortable...and then I feel guilty. I feel like I should let him hug me or whatever...I mean after all we were married. What difference does a hug make? But it just feels...I don't know...wrong somehow, weird.

I don't want to encourage him and end up having him thinking that we might get back together or that he could expect...anything, you know? I don't even know that this is where he is headed with it...but when we were married (or at least the last year or so of the marriage) he only seemed to touch me when he had ulterior motives. He is not a casually touchy person...so I just wonder what his motives are.

But I also don't want to snub him and make him angry again and then have it go back to the hateful, spiteful, mean J he has been.

I just want there to be some middle ground.

Hi -

You're descibing Boundries. You can communicate them simply. How about something like stepping back and saying "I'm not comfortable with you touching me right now". I found I needed to visualize the behavior and say it, rehearse a couple times. That way I could deliver the message in a more controled, less fear or anger laden way.

If boundry is violated what will you do? Quietly leaving the conversation, room, etc.. is a pretty clear action that's not confrontational.

Hope you're getting good Spring weather!
ATB,
SB

So things are pretty good...

DS has been sick, but he has been with me most of the time he has been sick...so I feel great knowing that I am doing the caretaking. Maybe it is selfish or self congratulatory or something, but I feel better about him being sick when he is with me and I can see him, hear his cough and make sure he is taken care of "my way"...control freak anyone?

Anyway he is doing better, and finally eating again. He never eats well when he is taking breathing treatments and steroids for his breathing problems. My grandparents were watching him today and the came up to my work this morning so my coworkers got to see my adorable, happy, chocoholic child. (He always mooches Hershey's kisses off the financial secretary here at the church, which she keeps in supply just for him and my nephew...spoiled kids! )

The divorce should be finalized soon and I have almost paid my atty in full for his services.

My sister and I are working on finding a place to rent...not the most fun thing I have done recently...

J is still acting weird, but it is still better than the mean J so I'll take it. I have been working really hard on not wondering what he is up to with this nice act...just enjoying the 2 weeks, so far, of pleasantries.

Another thing I am working on is setting boundaries and keeping them....with everyone. I have had to really practice this with my mom recently. She seems to want me to set boundaries and keep them with it comes to J and his family...but still let her cross boundaries and let her tell me what to do. I have been trying to subtly state boundaries without hurting her feelings. Not working real great, but she does seem to be getting it, sort of. If I could now just get her to quit making negative comments about J and his family. I suppose the best thing to do to get started in that direction is to not vent to her when J or his family does something that frustrates me...not easy, though I try not to make it about them, but more about how I feel about the situation. Mom tends to use those opportunities to talk about the shortcomings of whomever I am talking about...even when those shortcomings have little or nothing to to with that particular situation or conversation. She just doesn't like them but I don't want her to say something that will affect DS when he is old enough to understand it. Still working on it...I let you guys know how it's coming.

It's possible she thinks she's being supportive? You know when sometimes you (ok I!) just want to have a grumble and it helps if the other person grumbles on the topic too - nothing so invalidating as having a grumble and the other person goes "it's fine! it's all fine!" (I have a friend who does this!). But you're right it becomes more important with DS.
I need to learn some of this boundaries stuff too - not been much of a problem before but boy, when it comes to childrearing suddenly EVERYBODY knows what you should do!

I'm so glad to hear you're doing so well!

I don't know Mags, I guess she is trying to be supportive, but we have had so many conversations about how it is important not to bash the other half of DS' family...

And she takes every opportunity to say something not nice...even if I was not saying anything negative at all. For example, my sweet angle face baby boy looks more and more like his father everyday. Somedays it makes me happy that he looks like his dad, as I have never thought of J as being bad looking.

DS has gotten some of the best physical features of each of us...my blond hair and blue eyes and my cute (if I do say so myself) upturned, ski slope nose, and J's big toothy grin, with a little dimple at the side in J's chubby baby faced cheek. The shape of his mouth is just like J's as is his HUMONGOUS noggin and the general positioning of his features. In short my child is unnaturally gorgeous...in fact I have been told by complete strangers that they have never seen such a pretty baby and that he should be a baby model.

Anyway, even though he got a couple of features from me he looks very much like his father, uncle, and grandfather...stong genes I guess...they all look alike...also kind of creepy. He especially has certain faces and expressions that just scream out that he is J's child...most especially when he pouts or throws a fit...not that I am saying that J does that alot (though he kinda does). The other day he was throwing a fit and I mentioned to my mom, "Good Lord that is a "J face"!! He looks just like his dad!" To which my mother replied, "Well you shouldn't hold that against him." And she says this everytime anyone mentions that he looks like J. She says many other similar, not particularly nice, random things about him and other members of his family...everything from his dad being hen-pecked, to his mom being fake, to his sister and brother being selfish and rude. And she has very little to base these opinions on. She has rarely been around any of them...probably not more than 5 times total for any one member of his family, except his dad, who she kind of grew up with...but doesn't really remember too well.

Anyway, I think it started out that she was being supportive when I was angry and wanted to point the finger at J and his family and figure out where to lay the blame, how each person fit into totally ruining my life. I have to say that I haven't always been sunshine and roses and some of the things I have said haven't been all that nice, though they are valid complaints and true observations...but I never decided to hate J or his family for thier shortcomings or idosyncracies that I don't understand, or choices I don't agree with....but my mom seems to have done just that. And has based it on little more that anecdotes and superficial knowledge of really pretty decent people.

And it seems that the more I tell her not to be like that or to show her that they are in actuality good people the worse she gets...I just don't get it.

I just wanted to give everybody an update.

I am very excited right now...I will be starting a new job as a Case Manager for a prominent social service agency in two weeks, the day after my 25th birthday. Yay me!!



I am so excited. My life might actually be falling into a normal happy rhythm. Things are good right now. It's almost a little scary...cause when things have been good in the past that is when things have come crashing down...here's hoping that it doesn't happen this time.

WOOHOO!!!

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!