Yup, what P said. Call your attorney and get it started. Failure to pay child support is a Big Deal. Failure to pay court-ordered debts is a Big Deal.

And all of it is, P is absolutely right, to get YOU out of the current mode you're in. Stand up straight, Melissa, and get that "look" in your eyes. The one that says, "Yes, I -am- strong. Any questions?"

And then look in the mirror.

quote:

I don't want him to think he is right and I am money hungry.

You don't have to care what he thinks anymore. YOU know it's not that.
And I agree, don't talk to him about it - let the lawyers.

quote:

Originally posted by mags:
[QUOTE] don't talk to him about it - let the lawyers.

Yeah the only thing about that is...well, my lawyer was terrible. I can't tell you how many times I had to handle stuff that the lawyer was supposed to do. He dropped the ball so many times it's unbelievable.

I did go ahead and confront J today about the C/S and the other debt he is responsible for. I worked really hard at grounding and centering myself before I began the conversation. I just matter-of-factly stated that he was three weeks late on both. He started to make excuses and whatever and I just said "there is a history of not following through on agreements and obligations and I was just checking to make sure you remembered, since it wasn't garnished this month". He was livid, but I didn't react. Then I brought up what weeks he will be taking DS in July, which he has now changed from 1 week to 2 and a half weeks, split up. This is something that I agreed to and so I just said I need to know when he was taking him. NO fuss, just matter of fact discussion.

He really wasn't happy, but when I didn't get defensive or react in anyway he didn't know what to do. It seemed to make him more crazy that I didn't fall into our old pattern. As soon as I was around the corner from his mom's house I burst out laughing. It felt so great to get my point across without feeling out of control or crazed. And the look on his face was priceless. AWESOME!!

You go girl.

And is it difficult to change lawyers? Seems like for all they get paid they should at least do their job.

I am trying to decide if I am ready to move on and possibly consider a new relationship. A part of me feels guilty for even thinking about it only weeks after my marriage, what was supposed to be the last relationship of my life, has been terminated. I was very careful during the separation and divorce proceedings not to engage in any real thoughts about new relationships because I knew I wasn't really ready. Any relationship I would have attempted would have been nothing more than an attempt to escape the pain and heartache of the separation and divorce. Or it would have been an attempt to strike back at J.

I don't feel that either of those is the case anymore. I still feel scared, but I am much more distressed at the idea of permanently closing myself off to the possibility of ever have that closeness with someone. How do you know when you are ready to open yourself up again?

Love grows in the cracks of the concrete in slums in the worst part of town. Love grows on the high mountains above the tree line, where nothing but lichens eek out a life. Love grows. It will grow in you, I'm guessing, whether you look for it or not.

But I was outside weeding my garden this evening and I was quite ruthless with all the little shoots that grew where I didn't want them. Duck grass is not allowed to choke out my carrot seedlings, nor come up where the cabbage is trying to form heads.

So too with love, I'm thinking. It will grow will ye or nil ye. The question is, is it a weed or is it an apple tree that'll grow in just the right spot? So take a clear-eyed look at the potentials of a love that sprouts deep in your heart. Is it out of need or admiration? Is it rooted in respect or mutually destructive tendencies?

It's often impossible to tell right away. But there are ways. Look up Jon Van Epp -- he's cornered the market with his books about it, and they're pretty solid. His advice is as old as the hills, but with a solid, sensible logic behind that old-time advice.

I do want to reassure you. There is no way you will close yourself off permanently to the possibility of a close relationship. Human beings don't work that way. I recall a movie about a priest who fell in love. Can't remember the name of it. At the end, he was talking with the older priest, who told him something like this: "If you're like me, you'll fall in love with someone about once every ten years. And then you'll have to decide all over again. How do you best express your love for God? With this one person, or by serving the whole community that we serve? With a marriage and a family, or by doing the mission work you've been doing? It's not an easy question. God doesn't seem to give us the easy ones. But it's worth thinking about."

Thornbirds?

The Cardinal?

P

You know it's not even as if there is anyone in particular that I am interested in. I haven't found a person that I have begun to attach hopes of a relationship to as yet. I am still in the stage where I am trying to open myself up to even looking at a new relationship as a possibility.

Do I even want to try right now?

My problem is that I am already totally not what anyone is looking for. I don't party, I don't drink, I don't go out to bars or concerts or anything remotely fun. I like to go to movies, I love to read. The "fun" things I like to do are mostly solitary pursuits. I can already feel the protective layer between me and the rest of the world closing. I am so close to sealing myself off and I don't know how not to do it. I don't enjoy any of the things people my age enjoy. I like a quiet night at home. I like to read and discuss books. I like theatre and movies and learning and knowledge. I am actually completely geeked out over the possibility of going back to college and getting my Master's degree.

I feel old when I talk to the girls I work with, or basically any one my own age, or even within about 5 or 6 years of my age.

I can't enjoy the normal activities of a 25 year old woman and I don't know wny. It just all feels so superficial and unimportant.

And dating is such a game, such a manipulation. People aren't real with you upfront and if you try to be real they freak out and act like you were trying to force them to marry you tomorrow. I'm not normal and I never will be and I know that I am going to be alone, because I don't want to compromise myself anymore.

I have problems don't I?

Melissa,


All the things you mention, I like to do. Either we are both aliens from another planet, or there are others here on earth like us. In fact, there are six billion humans, and chances are at least 1 billion men are introverts like us. OK, so I'm making up statistics, but you get my gist I hope.

And well....so what if there aren't a bunch of book-loving, movie hounds around you. My H and I don't really enjoy the same hobbies or have even close to the same speed we take life. He goes about 80 mph all day ...I warm up to maybe 25 if I have coffee.

I just know that people meet their "one" usually when they are involved with taking care of themselves. Takes a lot of pressure off for starters. So, go get that master's degree. Be happy...and good things follow regardless of any man in your life.

It's gonna be ok Melissa. Really, really OK. You're ready to blossom now. It's your time.

So I reread my last post and realized that I made it sound like I am desparate and afraid to be alone and I need a man now.

That's not really what I was trying to say. It's just that since getting my new job, with a bunch of people my own age (which is something that I haven't had in about two years) I have noticed just how much I am not the typical 25 year old. All of the girls that I work with talk about going out and drinking and having a great time dancing or at concerts or at sporting events or whatever. And I realized that I live like I am 45 not 25. Not that there is anything wrong with it, I actually enjoy my quiet, drama free life.

It's just that sometimes I wonder if I am this way not because of my personality, but because I am afraid to be like them. Before I met J I did go out with friends and I did go out dancing and I did do all the young person things. But that was more than six years ago, before I was even in my 20s and it just feels like a silly thing to be doing now when I am a mom. And to be honest I don't like loud, crowded places and never really have. I just did it before because that is what you are supposed to do when you are young, single and "crazy", before you settle down. I don't feel young anymore. That is my biggest problem. I feel like there is something wrong with me because I don't feel 25...or how 25 "should" be according to society.

It's really less about men and more about the fact that I really feel closed off from people in general. I like all the people I work with, but I don't want to get too close because they might realize they don't like me after all. I might lose all my "friends" again like I have before. I tell people all the time that I don't have friends. They laugh because they think I am joking, but really I'm not. And that is what really bothers me. I don't need a man, but it would be nice to have real friends. And I don't remember how to make friends...it's been so long since I had one that wasn't around because of J.

quote:

It's just that since getting my new job, with a bunch of people my own age (which is something that I haven't had in about two years) I have noticed just how much I am not the typical 25 year old. All of the girls that I work with talk about going out and drinking and having a great time dancing or at concerts or at sporting events or whatever. And I realized that I live like I am 45 not 25. Not that there is anything wrong with it, I actually enjoy my quiet, drama free life.

So, could you say you are more mature? That life has delt you some pretty hard blows and that you've grown?

I'm 45 and a mom - and I have co-workers who hang out at the clubs and bars. They are called cougars! My grandma used to say that if you want to meet drunks and alcoholics, hang out at bars. There's something to that..LOL.

quote:

And to be honest I don't like loud, crowded places and never really have. I just did it before because that is what you are supposed to do when you are young, single and "crazy", before you settle down. I don't feel young anymore. That is my biggest problem. I feel like there is something wrong with me because I don't feel 25...or how 25 "should" be according to society.

Two thoughts. First, have you investigated and/or ruled out clinical depression? There are many common symptoms like not sleeping, feeling hopeless and lethargic, not doing the activities you used to like to do...etc.

Second thought - have you ever researched the Myers-Brigg personality typing? Because you sound like my type and guess what? If you are, we really hate loud, outgoing activities, we like be quiet and introverted, we are thinkers...and feel very different from most people because we are. Less than 1% of the population is like me. There are some really cool things about us and maybe it might help to research this.

Here is a test in case you haven't taken it: Myers Brigg test

It might take a few different tests to figure this out. It takes awhile, but I learned more about myself through MB Testing, than I have anything else.

quote:

It's really less about men and more about the fact that I really feel closed off from people in general. I like all the people I work with, but I don't want to get too close because they might realize they don't like me after all. I might lose all my "friends" again like I have before. I tell people all the time that I don't have friends. They laugh because they think I am joking, but really I'm not. And that is what really bothers me. I don't need a man, but it would be nice to have real friends. And I don't remember how to make friends...it's been so long since I had one that wasn't around because of J.

And I guess my suggestion doesn't change whether it's male companionship or female friendship. Take care of yourself. Do what interests you. Grow yourself. Get that masters degree. As your confidence grows and you bloom and expand your horizons....good things follow. Put the horse before the cart.

Hugs,
GS

Thanks so much for your encouragement GS.

I don't think that I am clinincally depressed...anymore. Before the separation and divorce I had a hard time getting out of bed in the morning, I had serious anxiety and the beginnings of panic attacks.

Since the separation, since being able to talk about what was happening in my marriage, since learning that it wasn't all my fault and I am not wrong for wanting someone that sees me and wants me and only me...well I can honestly say that I am so far from depressed.

I just feel so different from people my age. And to be honest I have always been different. Growing up I was very shy, painfully so. Around the time I graduated from high school I came out of my shell, but after 6 years of being with J, of having none of my own friends, of dealing with lies and being told that it was my fault, of learning that you can't trust people...even when you want to. After all that I have kind of regressed to being...not shy...but reserved is the word I suppose. I think I will take that personality test and I would be you are right...I am just different from other people. And I think I am okay with it, I just wish I could meet more people that are like me.

Hey Melissa

quote:

I can't enjoy the normal activities of a 25 year old woman and I don't know wny. It just all feels so superficial and unimportant.

quote:

a bunch of people my own age (which is something that I haven't had in about two years) I have noticed just how much I am not the typical 25 year old.

quote:

I feel like there is something wrong with me because I don't feel 25...or how 25 "should" be according to society.

quote:

I just feel so different from people my age.

Ok so the one theme is the not feeling like you're 25. It seems to me this is completely reasonable. You've been through more than your average 25 year old. You've had a baby, you've been through a difficult relationship, you've been strong, you've had to stand on your own without the support of a man - most of the 25 year olds you're comparing yourself to are still obessing about whether a guy likes them or what kind of ring they might get if he does.
So I'm wondering if you're focusing too much on needing to be like people your age - or namely the people your age who you hear about, or see at work - people who are, mentally, a lot more inexperienced and hence 'younger' than you. Sometimes you just grow out of stuff that's immature. Sometimes you never really grew into it anyway but did it because everybody else was. Which is exhausting.

The other part is the 25 you picture in your head 'according to society' is maybe the loud minority. Maybe it's just that you aren't in places where you come across the people who are in your life phase - maybe they are in the mums groups or the masters degrees or the night college courses or any number of other places. They probably aren't the ones making a big noise about their weekends around the office, or the ones you see on the tv programs or news or whatever, but it doesn't mean they aren't there. I don't think you're that unusual. I have a friend who I think has been a granny all her life. I think I was probably born 30, I never really did the 'teen' thing and pubs were always a bit of a trial. I do love dancing but I think I'd have fitted in better in the 50's or so where going out as a youth could be more about dancing and less about standing around shouting at eachother in a crowded bar till you're hoarse.

Hmm I see I'm getting verbose again. What I meant to say more SUCCINCTLY is that
1) Maybe your image of what you should be at 25.... ISNT what you should be or what most 25 year olds are. To me you sounds normal - you sound like me at 25. Well - more mature than I was (and probably am) - but interests and hobbies-wise you sound fine. Forget 25, I was like that at 17.
2) Even if most 25 year olds ARE different - you've been through a lot - and maybe before were already more mature than that - so why does it worry you SO MUCH not to be like them? Would you be ok with being like, say, 30 year olds? 35 year olds? 40 year olds? There's no rule that says your friends have to be your age - more your life stage really.
3) Oh actually that was my point 3. How about taking the pressure off your friends having to be the same age? Or having to be like people your age?

My H is 10 years older than me - I met him when I was 19 and had just started uni. Although much of that relationship working was not related to me being mature (it was more to do with him having the maturity to deal with my insecurity), still some of it was due to me not being as 'young' as a lot of people my age - I was not a party girl looking for a different guy all the time, I wasn't interested in getting drunk or going out all the time or experimenting with drugs or freedom etc. etc. , I could appreciate someone nice who was serious about the long term, I could overlook a lack of romantic stuff - I dunno... apart from the insecurity I was not a very 19 year old 19 year old. So I was lucky enough to find someone who matched up with me - of a different age. The boys my age were horribly immature, except maybe my old flatmate who had been through a hard life and abuse. The ones from uni I'm still in touch with are getting mature now! The girls... well I found the ones who were pretty similar to me. There were lots of party ones around (and occasionally they made me feel like an old stick in the mud) - but there were lots as well who would rather go to the movies, coffee, picnic at the beach, sit in the loungeroom together and read all day (man I miss that!), having philosophical conversations - and ok painting our nails and talking about boys too (we were still 19!).

I guess what I'm saying is - maybe it's more about going and putting yourself in places where like minded people congregate. And not worrying about the age thing, or comparing yourself to people who are like-aged but not like-minded. What are the hobbies you'd enjoy? Could you join a book club? A playgroup for DS? A local charity? A sport you like? Stuff like that.


The other bit, of course, is whether you are sort of introverting as a form of self protection/withdrawal. That would be a shame... and I have no advice on that bit, I don't know enough about it. But it kind of sounds more like you are just missing being with like minds - we all need friends - but somehow you are blaming it on yourself being different - as opposed to just figuring out where to meet those people. It's like a couple of very smart very self aware guy friends who I think would be a catch for any woman - but they go to meet women at the bars, where all that matters is their looks and their clothes - whereas the primary attraction of these guys is their minds - I don't think they kind of women they are looking for are at the bars. I think maybe if they did a latin dancing or a cooking course or a writing group or something they might find the less party-girl sorts... but of course they are GUYS so they won't! Bah. Anyway same goes for you in meeting friends who are like you... what is the 'social' version of what you enjoy? Maybe that's where you will find your kindred spirits... it's an uncomfortable exercise at first if you're an introvert (for about 3 months of mothers group I was forcing myself to go but I'm finally enjoying it) - but I think it eventually pays off. Eventually you get friends, then deeper friends, then people who are valuable friends and supports to you in your life.

Speaking of which I better go sleep I've got mums group tomorrow. Good luck!

Heh. What mags said, yup. And also GS has good ideas.

The end of my marriage happened when I was 37, more or less (it took more than a year, so...) During that time, I walked around feeling as though I was 80. Literally, I felt ancient -- and apparently 80 is as old as I can actually imagine.

It took me a long time to readjust. I was so tired and so beaten down and so much had happened, and it just took time. I think there is nothing wrong with giving yourself that time. Are you going to really become a hermit? It seems a bit unlikely to me. I think it is worthwhile to look around and find out where the wise 25 year olds are. Many of them have young kids, like you do. Many of them work and are busy, like you are. So they will be hard to find.

They're out there, though. You'll start to know you've found that community when people say things that actually fit with your world, and not with the "going to to party" world. There are always people who party. If you look a little more closely, you'll find the ones who are going home to give the kids a bath instead -- and usually those are the happier ones.

Sometimes the grief and guilt hit me so hard and at the most unexpected times it just takes my breath away. DS and I were at my sister's house today to celebrate my nephew's third birthday. Watching my sister and brother-in-law with each other and thier children, in their beautiful home, happy, laughing and giving thier son just exactly what he wants for his birthday, it hit me...my life will never be like that. I took something very important, very special from DS when I divorced his dad. Or maybe it was never there to begin with...either way it's painful.

I just keep thinking about how I thought my marriage would be...the way that I always dreamed my life with my husband would be. I guess I am just now coming to terms with the fact that it's over. It doesn't even make sense. We were separated for almost a year and have been divorced for three months now. And suddenly it seems like I can't quit being sad and crying over it. Which is confusing in itself, because I don't want to go back. I don't want to be married to J...and not only do I not want to go back...I can't. It's impossible for me to ever trust him again, and I can't be with someone I can't believe in.

Everything we ever had was a lie...even my own feelings for J, because he wasn't at all the person I thought he was. I lived a lie for 5 years and I perpetuated that lie to cover for J and to keep people from knowing just how stupid I was.

At the beginning I didn't tell anyone because I was afraid of thier reaction to J and how it would alienate us from each other's families. Then it just became so painful and shameful and I heard so often how it was my fault that he was straying anyway...and really I had heard my own mom say pretty much the same thing about my grandparents in the past. My father's father had an affair, left my grandmother and married my stepgrandmother... and I have heard my mom say something to the effect of "well if there wasn't something missing in his relationship at home he wouldn't have been looking elsewhere". I don't think she never meant it as a negative statement about my grandmother, but just that it takes two to make a marriage and two to break it. But hearing that and then being told that what was missing in my marriage were all things that were my fault, well, I felt like a failure and just knew that everyone else would think so too.

Anyway. I don't guess I need to rehash all that again. It's not like you guys haven't heard it all before. I just don't understand why it keeps hitting me so hard now. It's over, no going back, no more pretending that it didn't happen. So why am I having such a hard time now? I thought I was doing so well, but for the last three days or so I have been so guilty and filled with pain over something I could swear I had come to terms with.

Hi -

quote:

So why am I having such a hard time now?

...'cause you're normal. A serious and protracted emotional knocking around takes time to heal. Even if the other partner is deeply flawed we still had a part in the relationship, and will react to the shadowy fears from time to time. However with time and experience we realize that many of these responses are triggered from past experiences.

After my D I was pretty sensitive and kept my distance from potential relationships for about 2 years. It helped but I'm still triggered on occasion.

Setting my sights on some near term goals for my life and acomplishing them helped. Including some fun things helped.

Hang in there and heal,
SB

So this post has very little to do with marriage or affairs...in fact pretty much nothing to do with it. I have been told here so many times that I have "codependent tendencies". I had at one point stated that I didn't know where it came from because usually it comes from growig up in a home with an addict. I couldn't reconcile that becuase I never saw either of my parents as addicts. My father drinks, now more than he ever has...he never drank to excess when I was growing up and I never associated his drinking with an addiction. It has become obvious in the last several months however that my father has a problem. and so I started to think back over my life and noticed that my father used to use his work in a similar manner to how many people use other addictions. He now has a job that does not require him to work as much and now he drinks instead. I believe my father is an addict...and I have no idea what to do.

What makes you think you have to *do* anything?

And .... conversely .... what you like to do?

P