quote:

I forgave my wife because I love her

quote:

can not make thing right for the action Tracie took! Only she can fix this mess

quote:

Confusion is a very small state about the size of a jail cell; in this case it will be about the size of Tracie’s heart

Will...please don't take this the wrong way...but the first statement that I quoted here is contradicted by the rest that I quoted. To me you don't sound like someone that has forgiven your wife. You sound angry and to be honest.... a bit controlling.

From your first post on the other thread it sounds like you did alot of things in your marriage that damaged Tracie's ability to trust you with her true feelings. She may have never recovered fully from that hurt...and now you are telling her that she has to do things your way and give you what you want and tell you everything and she isn't ready for that.

Now I don't know that this is absolutely the case...I don't know you or Tracie...but from reading here that is what I would surmise might be happening.

You are pushing a situation that is already bad into the "worse" territory. Being overbearing and controling and pushing Tracie will not help...you will destroy what is left of your marriage if you don't step back and let her breathe and deal with some of her own issues.

Please don't take this all as an attack on you...I am just concerned about where this is going, and I don't think it is going where you want it to.

Wil....

how long are you willing to give Tracie to work towards your marriage?

how long are you willing to work towards your marriage?

and do you understand what we here at symc mean by work? I think we're not communicating on the same level here with that sometimes so I want you to explain to me what you think we mean by 'working on yourself'.

And again. I'd like you to answer this question too..What does Will want changed?

not just in the marriage. but in yourself.
(and just a note here.. please don't say what you want Tracie to do. This has nothing to do with her per se. This has to do with what you want in a marriage to anyone. And what you think you can do in terms of yourself)
You've mentioned the weight loss and the more interactions with the kids, which is a great start.

Let me give you some specifics here to think about in your answer.
Better communication skills
No passive aggressive anger
More time taken for an individual hobby or interest
finding a hobby/interest you both can do together
Learning good coping skills
Figuring out what your relationship needs are
finding out what your spouse's relationship needs are
learning how to 'ground' yourself when you're angry

This is the sort of 'work' we are discussing here. The weight loss is great and certainly helpful to your health as well as connecting with the kids.

And patience Wil. You need to have patience. Marriage recovery is a marathon. It has many facets and many bumps. Threatening doesn't make it work any faster and any better. As a matter of fact, many times it is the BS, who, even though they want the marriage...ends up leaving it because they don't have the patience to wait.

Remember something Wil. It did not take overnight to get to where you guys are. It will not be an overnight fix. Its a long, difficult, hard, painful road back. It is worth it in the long run, but the getting there is not easy.

Loui

I am not angry. I don't understand not doing anything.

I here to seek help! I don't want to lose my family. As days past I see the distance between us becoming greater and greater. My wife has told me that this is not about me but her. I do understand this however the problem she has to deal with is effecting the family. I will bet to say the way our post are on the board is the way our house looks inside. A great big mess.

I guess I just want her to get over it all and move on. I have review the incident and placed it in a box in the back of my head neaver to be opened again. I want her to do the same but it is not that simple for her. Growing up if someone forgave you, you could take that matter an put in behind you at that point because it is dead. If you hold on the that situation or incident you are keep yourself in chains.

I guess she has the need to seek out why and for what reason she had the affair. If this something she need to do that is ok. It appear that she is in two place at once. If her mind is here ,her body is not....if her body is here,her minds is not. Our old child now ask me if mommy is moody be talking to her on many event. My wife has to most sexy hazel eyes in the world but when she is stressed, up set ,or sleepy her eyes turn a deep green and look very glassy. My wife's eyes has been a deep green most of the month!

Prior to his A I was always concern about my wife well being. If i saw her i the about state I would ask her if everything was ok. Today is not different than the past I am concern about her and her feeling. Since the affair she has looked at me and motion with her lips I am sorry and look as if she is going to cry. Everyone needs to understand that the affair hurt me to my core, I have not shut out my feeling I just don't need to travel that road again,since I leave on that street during my EA.

During my EA I found myself in a bad way I hurt the woman I loved and she really did not know anything about forgiveness. I got beat, kicked slammed and tossed about the place. I took the *** whipping because I was wrong and I knew I was wrong. I even aided in beating my self up, I kick myself when I was down.

After the truth came out about Tracie's affair, i had to process it and deal with it. I dealt with it in my own way and found a box in my head and boxed it up and packed it away in the sit out to trash area. This was done because I did not want Tracie to experience what I had to experience. My family and I am still recovering from the beating I took after my EA. As most of you can see Tracie has not recover from it yet. I don't want to spend another five year trying to get over this incident. I want my wife to place all this crap in a box, write on the box trash and we can taken all this out to the curb together and end this.

I am not trying to be controlling I just want this matter put away it is killing out family and me! We have to move on soon the stress is too bad in the house.

Wil.. I think we posted at the same time.. Did you read my post as well?

Loui

quote:

I dealt with it in my own way and found a box in my head and boxed it up and packed it away in the sit out to trash area. This was done because I did not want Tracie to experience what I had to experience. My family and I am still recovering from the beating I took after my EA. As most of you can see Tracie has not recover from it yet. I don't want to spend another five year trying to get over this incident. I want my wife to place all this crap in a box, write on the box trash and we can taken all this out to the curb together and end this.

Oh Will, it doesn't work that way...not in the long haul. If you don't deal with the reason why it happened you will never move past where you are...even if you box it all up and never think about it again. It will likely happen again in the same way...or manifest in a different way. You can't just box it up and pretend it's over and never happened. It will be so much more damaging that way. Please don't shove it down and act like it is over and doesn't affect the fture...becuase it absolutely does...in so many ways.

quote:

I am not trying to be controlling I just want this matter put away it is killing out family and me!

I understand this is what you want.
Sometimes you have to wait for what you want.
And you can't control Tracie and you can't 'make' her do anything.
She will come to it in her time. You have your way of dealing with things and she has hers. The first thing you can do is respect and let her deal with things in her way. Even if its not what you like and not what you want and not the way you do things.

Patience Wil...compassion for her pain as well as your own is the first step you must learn.


now.. lets get back to you and the things you are doing...okay?


Loui

quote:

Originally posted by LouiEJ*SYMC:

quote:

I am not trying to be controlling I just want this matter put away it is killing out family and me!

I understand this is what you want.
Sometimes you have to wait for what you want.
And you can't control Tracie and you can't 'make' her do anything.
She will come to it in her time. You have your way of dealing with things and she has hers. The first thing you can do is respect and let her deal with things in her way. Even if its not what you like and not what you want and not the way you do things.

Patience Wil...compassion for her pain as well as your own is the first step you must learn.


now.. lets get back to you and the things you are doing...okay?


Loui

I am doing me! I deal with thing strange I guess. Normally I would have grab some ice cream OR SOMETHING and eat until I felt better know I am just think a great deal.

I have that time on my hands. I play PS3 game and watch TV just time that give me more time to think. I got to work on slow night I have more time to think. I'm going to school just give me more time to think. Bottom line I am thinking all the time thinking to much. think leads to questions that i can't get answer which leads to fight. Fight lead to deeper sorrow and more painful words or events. I sink quick. Th only time I feel good is when I am in the gym at work alone.

quote:

Originally posted by will1899:
...questions that i can't get answer which leads to fight.

Not exactly an environment I'd feel safe staying in. Sounds like you are beginning to recongize your fears, your core hurts. Can you also recognize your value? Can your recognize your wife's fears and value?

quote:

... The only time I feel good is when I am in the gym at work alone.

Workouts are really good and healthy. I don't like working out alone though. I bet there's more stuff that makes you feel good. What makes your heart soar?

HoFS

quote:

Originally posted by LouiEJ*SYMC:
Wil....

how long are you willing to give Tracie to work towards your marriage?

how long are you willing to work towards your marriage?

and do you understand what we here at symc mean by work? I think we're not communicating on the same level here with that sometimes so I want you to explain to me what you think we mean by 'working on yourself'.

And again. I'd like you to answer this question too..What does Will want changed?

not just in the marriage. but in yourself.
(and just a note here.. please don't say what you want Tracie to do. This has nothing to do with her per se. This has to do with what you want in a marriage to anyone. And what you think you can do in terms of yourself)
You've mentioned the weight loss and the more interactions with the kids, which is a great start.

Let me give you some specifics here to think about in your answer.
Better communication skills
No passive aggressive anger
More time taken for an individual hobby or interest
finding a hobby/interest you both can do together
Learning good coping skills
Figuring out what your relationship needs are
finding out what your spouse's relationship needs are
learning how to 'ground' yourself when you're angry

This is the sort of 'work' we are discussing here. The weight loss is great and certainly helpful to your health as well as connecting with the kids.

And patience Wil. You need to have patience. Marriage recovery is a marathon. It has many facets and many bumps. Threatening doesn't make it work any faster and any better. As a matter of fact, many times it is the BS, who, even though they want the marriage...ends up leaving it because they don't have the patience to wait.

Remember something Wil. It did not take overnight to get to where you guys are. It will not be an overnight fix. Its a long, difficult, hard, painful road back. It is worth it in the long run, but the getting there is not easy.

Loui

I am willing to give her as long as it take but I need her to talk with me. Some event have happen that effect me in way i never would have thought. Like the other night she was calling his name in her sleep that hurt like hell!

I love to talk with my wife because she has her own mind it make me a stronger person. However we do have area were we don't agree sometime i speak up other I walk away. I have learn that Tracie and i can be pigheaded at times causing some fights. with the event over the past i have learn to have fact in hand this the bet was for me to talk with her about a rocky subject. I have learned to listen better but I don't think she listen to me often.

I love going to the range, cooking ,traveling.I do all when I get the chance. I got Tracie into shooting when we move to GA. I still have her 1st target i was so proud of her. Like most thing she lost her desire to go. Our love is like waves you can see the pitches and the low if you look back over the years. I know you don't suppose to be in love all the time but i time i am 95% of time.

I am passive aggressive I've been work on it since day on of marriage!

Coping skill -- Jack and coke or Long Island lol I am starting to see the gym can be a place to obtained that outlet.

Our relationship need some get up an go! I like doing thing off the cuff were Tracie need thing to be planned out complete. I wake up Sat. morning and say lets go to ATL (Atlanta ) she says it to later to go that far. I feel that she acts much older than she is some time. I also feel that we missed out on the married with no children lifestyle it would have been nice to experience that with her.

In order for me to figure her out I must I have to talk to her about the stuff that is hard to talk about. she has to be will to explain it to the point that I get it. Telling me you r confused will not work that is not an answer. it is like the word CUX. Why you do that Tracie? "CUZ" not an answer.

I normally can ground myself but my family is very important in my life. I WANT THEM TO BE HAPPY SAFE AND FEEL LOVED !!!!

Patience - i have obtain some of this in the past 7 years I need more but that only come with problems.

Is there a private place where i and other like me can post? I don't want my post to spill back over into mu home life.


Can you help us find a way we can talk so that all this stress will leave my home. It is really taken a toll on the family.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: will1899,

ONE THING I LOVE ABOUT MY MARRIAGE IS THAT WE DON'T THE SAME PROBLEMS NOW THAT WE HAD IN THE START. TRACIE AND I ARE VERY POWERFUL TOGETHER WHEN WE ARE FIGHTING FOR A COMMON GOAL.

I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT OUR MARRIAGE HAS NOT BEEN BAD ALL THE TIME. WE HAVE HAD SOME GOOD DAYS TOGETHER!

MY PARENTS HAVE BEEN MARRIED FOR 30 YEARS AND TO HIS DAY WHEN MY FATHER GET TRIED OF MY MOTHER HE WILL LEAVE THE HOME FOR WEEKS OR MONTHS AT A TIME. HE HAS DONE THIS SINCE I CAN REMEMBER, AND TO THIS DAY DOES THE SAME THING.

BEFORE THE a WE COULD TALK ABOUT ANY THINK. I WAS STARTING TO ENJOY THAT ABOUT OUR MARRIAGE. THE DAY IT STARTED I FELT THE CHANGE IN MY MARRIAGE,I STARTED ASKING TRACIE WHAT WAS WRONG ON THAT DAY. WITH ALL THIS SAID CAN YOU BE TO IN TURN WITH YOUR SPOUSE. I KNOW I AM IN TURN WITH MY WIFE BECAUSE I FEEL THE CHANGE IN OUR RELATIONSHIP BEFOR THEY HAPPEN AND MY BODY TELL ME WHEN THING ARE WRONG.

I MISS MY MARRIAGE AND MY WIFE I HAVE A STRANGER IN MY HOUSE.

CURRENTLY IN OUR RELATIONSHIP I FEEL LIKE I DID WHEN MY FATHER WALKED OUT ON US WHEN I WAS IN TH 5TH GRADE. I FEEL ABANDONMENT, INSECURE, UNLOVED, DISRESPECTED, WORTHLESS AND USED.

TOMORROW KEEP GETTING BETTER FOR MY FEELING BUT WHAT ABOUT MY MARRIAGE.


WORKING TODAY FOR A BETTER TOMORROW!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: will1899,

Will, I apologize if my question triggered any pain. That wasn't my intention at all. I have every intention to support you. I just wanted to get clear on what you were expecting because I felt a little like we all keep paddling around the same spot.

I read your other thread and can sense all the pain. You have been deeply hurt Will and I along with many others understand that.

I don't have anything else but would really like you to answer the question:

What does Will want changed?

Even if you start with something as simple as "I don't want to hurt anymore" or "I want to stop constantly thinking about the affair".

Then you can at least have a starting place and a goal.

And Will, that lost little boy in the mall who can't find his parents - he is so valuable, so loveable - can you see that? I can.

Anyone has advice on the following points:

Point one: How can i stay strong for my kids? This morning I started tearing up around them and just broke down. Tracie got a bit upset because I was crying. I told her to just leave me alone but I really want a huge from her.

Point Two: Tracie feels smothered! Last month Tracie sugguest that she go and stay with a friend while she figure thing out, at that point I did not agree with her but today I do agree.

Point three: Since her A, I have wanted to be with my wife nightly. Even with the information I have posted I still desire my wife and that desire has grown.
The other night while having sex she looked at me strange, as if I made her sick. I think my weight is a problem for her. I felt so uncomfortable that when we were done I cried myself to sleep.

Point four: Why is it good for her to know everything about my feeling but for me to know nothing about her feeling?

Point Five: How can i stay in the house with her all weekend and not cross the line with wanting sex or saying something that she feels is smoothering.

Point Six: How do I address Tracie planning future events,trips and family gathering when our future is so unclear. Example we purchased a couple night stay in Las Vagas with out time share. I want real hope not false hope, I 've notice that she opens up in one breath and shuts down in the next.


Point seven: I can exchange email address or nukmber with one of you guys. Something I really don't feel comfortable posting about my feeling due to the situation we are in.

Should I be going into the Protection Phase? I think I would feel like I am walking away from my marriage. Will this really help me to save my marriage from what I am getting she want out of this situation.

She has been emationally hard on me other than the A during the past month. Lost?

Hey wil.. I'm glad the guys are talking to you over on the other thread.. so I'll just keep posting here. okay?

First thing about Protection Phase. No. You do not need to be there. That would only be advised IF Tracie is still in contact with the AP. So unless you find proof positive that she is.. you do not need Protection Phase.

quote:

Point one: How can i stay strong for my kids? This morning I started tearing up around them and just broke down. Tracie got a bit upset because I was crying. I told her to just leave me alone but I really want a huge from her.

Wil, I want you to really concentrate on what I'm saying here. This is VERY important.. Got it?

You don't HAVE to stay strong all the time. Whether its in front of Tracie, in front of the kids, at work. Its okay to have bouts that show your vulnerability.

What IS important is that you DO NOT involve your kids in your personal pain. By that I mean talk to them about every little issue that is upsetting to you. Don't badmouth anyone to them if you can. I cannot stress how important how you speak about Tracie and about your marriage in front of them is.

So.. if you break down.. tell them that your hurting and some hugs from them would help. Sometimes with kids at this time you're kinda like on autopilot ya know? What they do need is reassurance that you love them and that whatever is happening between you and their mom has nothing to do with them. Reassure them that both you and Tracie love them very much and nothing will ever change that.

quote:

Point Two: Tracie feels smothered! Last month Tracie sugguest that she go and stay with a friend while she figure thing out, at that point I did not agree with her but today I do agree.

Wil, I've talked with you about this before. And I've given you specific things to do. I know you feel panicked when Tracie doesn't do or say the things you want her to. And that panic leads you to do things that you hope will turn her thinking around. There is NOTHING you can do that will do that right now. Absolutely nothing. That part SHE has to do. And the more you obsess and the more you try the more counterproductive it is. I know that is not reassuring... but trust me, all of us here have been on one or two or even three sides of an A..and though what we are telling you sounds bizarre or wrong, it isn't.

So.. some of the ways you can give her space...

Don't send anymore flowers or letters or notes proclaiming you love her. She knows that you do..
Don't keep asking her if she's alright. If she's not and she wants to talk to you about it, she will. The truth is she's not alright. And neither are you. The best place to talk about your fears, your worries, your insecurities, your not being alright is at the counselor's office. Right now that is the safest place for the two of you to have this kind of discussion.

When you're getting panicky inside because you think she's distant.. try to get to a grounded, calm place without Tracie. By yourself...think of the valuable, loving man you are.. think of all the positive aspects of what you are doing to become a better husband. And use those positives to find a calmness. To find your grounded center. That is what we call self soothing.

(and drinking is NOT the way to get there.. .. thats just a way to escape)

quote:

Point three: Since her A, I have wanted to be with my wife nightly. Even with the information I have posted I still desire my wife and that desire has grown.
The other night while having sex she looked at me strange, as if I made her sick. I think my weight is a problem for her. I felt so uncomfortable that when we were done I cried myself to sleep.

that is a direct cause of your insecurity and your core hurts of unloveableness and inadequacy. Men usually need the physicalness of sex to calm those fears. Unfortunately, women usually need emotional security for that. And sex is many times the last thing that does it for them.

That is one of the issues that is very difficult to get thru in marriage recovery. What one needs is in direct conflict with what the other one needs.

I would bring this particular issue up with your counselor and ask how you both can handle it in a way that is helpful and not harmful to the marriage.

quote:

Point four: Why is it good for her to know everything about my feeling but for me to know nothing about her feeling?

For the same reason I mentioned above. Women need emotional security. And for that need for space we mentioned earlier. I will repeat what was told you on the other thread. We are a pro marriage website. No one on the other forum is doing anything that could be considered detrimental to your marriage. We are all supporting Tracie in her recovery as well.

As for your other concerns, I would advise you to put them on hold. Play it by ear. It might be best to not plan vacations or anything right now. The less pressure about that the better.

How does all this sound to you?
As you were asked on your other thread...
Are you ready to take a walk?
And work on your personal recovery.

Loui

Just want to say that I see how unfair this all is to you!

Just my opinion but I don't think Protection Phase is right for you right now. I do however, think it is important for you to feel more grounded and safe within yourself. Just my view...but just getting your thoughts and feelings into organized points seems more grounded to me.

I don't know if this will make sense or not but you are not your pain. Your pain is of course very real but it isn't who you are.

So I'll offer my 2 cents on some of your points.

1) You could tell your kids that you are going through something that hurts a lot and they may see you cry sometimes but that doesn't change how much you love them.

3) I think this is a normal response. My husband did this after his affair - wanted to have sex all the time. I was back and forth whether I wanted to even stay together and felt very pressured - not a good or sexy feeling at all. What would you think of just stepping back for a short period of time?

4) Again my opinion but I don't think it is neccesarily good for her to know all and you know very little. Thing is though, we can't force others to tell us what they are feeling. I suggest that you offer respect to her by letting her chose what she can share.

Try just accepting your situation as is if you can. Doesn't mean it is right but it is what is and fighting it will not only not make it better but may make it worse. An example - I have a cold right now, sneezing, coughing, strange sounding voice - if I just said how this isn't right or how I don't like this (which I don't ) doesn't make the cold go away. It's still here. Getting rambly -sigh- The cold is making me do it!!! LOL

5) You can want sex but you can certainly keep that to yourself. I think this is an opportunity for you to show how much you want to be with her by waiting patiently. And saying something smoothering - you can just do your best to try Will. She has her reactions too I am sure.

6) Again, I feel you may want to wait patiently. I am sure it doesn't feel good to be on that end of limbo but coming from the other end (a wife who felt extremely pressured to commit) - it wasn't until he backed the pressure off that I could think about staying. What my husband did was go get himself a counselor and just that act made me feel like I could breath a little. He didn't even see that counselor very long but it helped give me space.

Take care Will.

Louie is so smart!

quote:

(and drinking is NOT the way to get there.. .. thats just a way to escape)

Hey now! I like an occational escape now and then. I just tend to get lost on the internet instead of drinking.

Thank you ladies!

So.... what's so scary about having to do your own emotional support?

Hi, Will!

I apologize that I wasn't creative enough to post my thoughts from your other thread, here. Perhaps one of the mods could move my posts from there to here.

Anyway, I'm copying what you wrote to me over there.

quote:

Regina,

I think when you are reading my post you are dealing with experiences from your past. After my EA, Tracie demanned and I agreed that all net,cell phone and cell phone logs would be open for review.

That may be a valid argument if what I say doesn't apply. I am certainly sharing from my own experiences, but I don't see anything in my posts to you that have anything to do with anything other than you and Tracie.

quote:

Until a few weeks ago I had never looked or cared to look at phone/ net viewing etc.but she gave me reason to look. I am no angel but i have never abused my wife physical or emotionally other than my EA and pushing her.

Um...I'm not exactly sure where that's coming from. In my post on your 'male perspective' thread, I didn't say anything about abuse, and I'm assuming that this is a reply to that one.

quote:

Please don't put me in a box when you don't know me as a person. I love my wife more than I love myself that is why I came here on my own.
I am thankful for the advice and hope the you keep it coming but please understand that I want my marriage to work.

How am I putting you into a box? How have I suggested you do anything other than work on your marriage?

quote:

Also,after my EA I had my values change by Tracie and now she has walked away from those values. I am having great difficults with this and her unwilliness to recommit to me. I see my house and family falling apart in from of me!

Eh, I don't think Tracie has walked away from her values. She may have misrepresented them for a time, but I don't think she's forsaken them with no hope of returning to them.

As far as the advice goes, I think you are getting some truly GREAT advice, so I may only speak up on general issues from here on out, unless there truly is something from my experience I think you might find helpful.

Regina

Regina,

I am thankful for you advice. I was reviewing yesterday and as I looked at the Help thread i did not like the box you put me in. I understand you better now. I am happy that you cleared the air. Thank you once again for you post.