[/QUOTE]Your battle buddy isn't the problem.. she is more the symptom of another problem.
Have you bought the book we suggested earlier? Have you and Tracie read it yet?[QUOTE]

No we have not. She is not willing to talk or do anyhting. Our marriage will not fix itself. I can't do it alone.

She has texted me that she is getting a room.. I am done this is crazy the emotion change daily. I want off the rollercoaster.

I did not send you a text today saying I was getting a room. I made it clear that I was not going to work on fixing the marriage. You knew that. YOu said that was fine, you just wanted me. I told you then, that it wouldn't be good enough, that you would want more.

We have had this discussion a million times. YOu want more out of a marriage than I am willing to give. YOu say you are ok with it when really you aren't. And that's ok. But I have been honest that I am not going to counseling, I am not "fixing" me as you say I need to be fixed. Like I have told you over and over, This Is IT! We discussed in depth that all I wanted was a business partner, you said you were ok with that. I even made sure that you didn't think I would change my mind as time went on. YOu said you understood.

Hi Will. (Hi Stuckinamess.)

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No we have not. She is not willing to talk or do anyhting. Our marriage will not fix itself. I can't do it alone.

Look dude. I am totally serious here. You means you. Not you and her. Not you and your marriage. Certainly not you and your battle buddy, no matter how innocent the relationship is. (Talk to your male friends. Your happily married male friends. Don't have any? Time to make some.)

No, I'm talking about you. You and you alone. Doing things that are honorable and full of integrity. Leaning on your wife for your support? Not happening, dude. Leaning on your battle buddy for your support? Still not working.

See, here, I'm looking for a strong, solid man. I know for a fact that he's in there. Looking out from your eyes. Determined. Honorable. Full of integrity and decency and love for his family.

He doesn't do the easy way out stuff. And he sure as heck doesn't wait for someone else to "help."

I dunno what your marriage is going to become. But if you want to, you can be the solid ground your daughters need, the solid ground your family needs. You do not need Stuckinamess's help or hand-holding. In fact, you do not need her participation.

Because what you really need, here, is to become the man you've always believed you ought to be. You know the one, or knew him when you were younger. That doesn't take the women-folk in your life because really, they cannot give you what you're looking for -- manhood. Manliness. That uniquely male strength that, when it is worn well, means a man never -has- to fight. Because he knows he can so doesn't need to prove a darned thing.

This road his too many potholes! I've given it my all but I don't think I have any fight left in me.

At the start of DEC., I felt I had shown my wife that I was 100% committed to this marriage and love her and only her. AT the end of that same month crushed my world. At that point I was not willing to give up my marriage but over the past few month I really see that I can do nothing to save this marriage.

I am so stuck because I don't know what to do next.... I wish i knew the true cause for all this.... Days before she finish school I was her world and the day she picked up her degree she was talking to another man planing to spend the weekend with him. I know my EA was wrong and I've done much to try to repair my marriage. I don't understand why i am still being treated as if i was the only one who cheated. All my action are monitored as if I am doing something.

I have noting to hide, I am cutting off my friend to try to save my marriage. I am working at cutting her out but she has been apart of my support group for a long time. I understand the problems of friends of the other gender, but I will never see my battle buddy in that manner. Knowing what I know about her as a friend she would never be someone that I would want relationship with.

This road is tooooooooooooooooooooooo hard to travel!

That's not a man of honor and integrity talking. Come out from behind your fear, Will. You're not fooling me. I know you're in there.

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Originally posted by Just J_SYMC:
That's not a man of honor and integrity talking. Come out from behind your fear, Will. You're not fooling me. I know you're in there.

I don't see myself as a strong man anymore. What I see is a man with no self respect. When I should have been strong and walked away, I stood still talking about love.

I love my wife but I don't see my love changing the situations we are in today. I see that she has a strong hate and disrespect for me. I have remained in the home only for the kids and to try to work at my marriage. I see that we are on the last leg and I need to figure out the next step.... I don't have much more fight left in me....

We will know the ending by the end of the summer!

Will..

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I need to figure out the next step....

We have been telling you what your next step is and you keep ignoring it.

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he sure as heck doesn't wait for someone else to "help."

Start DOING and stop waiting for anyone else to join in.

Buy the book. Go to therapy. Stop 'talking' to everyone else and 'talk' to stuckinamess...even if it appears she doesn't like you right now or wants to participate....Take some action steps instead of waiting for everything around you to change. YOU make change happen.

Loui

Will sounds alot like me. Knows what he needs to do but too scared to do it. Unwilling to pay the cost to get what he wants.

Will, I have been at this much longer than you. The griping. The pity parties. Getting lots of good advice and ignoring it. Let me tell you, it doesn't end well. Years later I am as unhappy as ever. Do not continue to take after me. Go out and do something.

Do you have any hobbies? Do you have male friends? Is there anything you like to do with "the guys"? Focus on doing those things.

If you want to exercise more, don't do it alone. Find a sport to play with a bunch of guys. Even if you stink at the game, it will be more fun than working out alone. And you will make more male friends. I spent 2 years at the gym by myself several times a week. OK for exercise but not so great for changing how much joy you take in life.

If you are like me, what the people here say may trigger your shame and drive you further into your shell. Fight that urge! Break out of your rut! Not by trying to reconnect with your wife. By trying to connect with people you don't even know yet.

And if you do, invite me along.

Question 1: Is my marriage worth saving?

I feel that it is worth save! I have read about boundaries and limits set in a marriage and I see that our marriage has none. When I had my EA, Tracie set boundaries and limits on our relationship to her needs. In time I learned to respect those boundaries and limits. I do feel that those boundaries and limits work to keep our marriage somewhat together to the point of her affair.

Now, at three months after her affair, I find myself stuck in a mess! First off I am hurting; I never knew that I could hurt so badly! Right before Christmas, I lost my best friend, she went away for a weekend and I have never seen her since. My best friend helped me to change my beliefs about marriage and family. She was that support structure that aided me to reach for the stars. She was the gas that kept my engine going, when I hit the major bumps in life.

Am willing to fight for my marriage…..

When I look at Tracie, I see an image of my wife. In my heart I know that the image is my wife but in my mind I see a stranger. There is a stranger living in my house. I don’t know this person who asked for a business relationship instead of a marriage. The strange is the person that drove my wife to TN to sleep with another man. The strange is the one who cried on the sofa for weeks after the affair. The stranger has said things that cut to the core of my being and has made me feel as small as an ant. I keep telling my self that the stranger will leave soon but I think the stranger has made a home in my house.

Since the strange has been in my home, she has killed the person that I once was. The strange has stolen my hope, drive, and desire. She has also broken my spirit and will!

I wish I knew where Tracie was….. I hope the old Wil is with her and they are happy!

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First off I am hurting; I never knew that I could hurt so badly! Right before Christmas, I lost my best friend, she went away for a weekend and I have never seen her since. My best friend helped me to change my beliefs about marriage and family. She was that support structure that aided me to reach for the stars. She was the gas that kept my engine going, when I hit the major bumps in life.

No offense Will, but the person who does all of this for you should be your wife, not your best friend. And it all sounds so emotionally attached and charged.

Also.. remember.. Tracie is still who she is..and she too is going thru changing and growing (even if she doesn't 'want' to..she is). So I'd be willing to bet neither of you feel comfortable around each other..cause that 'comfortable' person you were around isn't present or possibly may not exist anymore. Which..btw.. isn't such a bad thing either.

This is an opportunity for you individually and for Tracie individually to actually grow and learn. To identify what needs you have for a relationship. To really understand and come to terms with what you are willing to compromise on and what you aren't. This is the time to concentrate on YOU. NOT on Tracie. Not on Best Friends.. not on anyone else.

You can still live together, breathe together, raise children together...but not focus on each other. That comes AFTER you concentrate on yourself.

You say you have..but I don't see it Wil. I see you transferring your dependency of Tracie onto your best friend. I'm not saying you can't grieve the loss of it..I am saying you cannot and should not depend on it.

Yes...your marriage is worth saving. ONLY if you can stop focusing on Tracie at the moment, on your best friend at the moment...and concentrate on you. Without the need to know what anyone else is thinking, doing, wanting, needing. Just YOU.

Loui

Louie~ He was speaking of me as his best friend before x-mas.

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I find myself stuck in a mess!

Yup. You are indeed stuck in a mes. But I have to agree with Loui even if she confused who your best friend is, Will.

There's a simple exercise you can do in your mind. Let's say you're leaning on someone. Let's say that person stumbles. What happens to you? You stumble too. Guess what? You're stumbling. So stop leaning. Stand on your own two feet. Yes, there is a stranger standing in front of you. And what's hurting you is that reality refuses to mesh with what you want to believe reality is.

Reality: Your wife has given you an ultimatum. "Business" relationship or nothing.

Your view: I want another choice! I want to just go along like things were before! I don't want to face this choice! I WANT ANOTHER OPTION DO NOT MAKE ME CHOOSE BETWEEN THESE OPTIONS!!!

You might want to sit back and really look at the reality. Don't take action yet. But look at the reality. You have the strength to look at that choice without losing your mind. You just have to hold onto your Self.

Will, sorry to see you in the same place.

I really like the analogy J. I would simply add another word - non-reaction - hard to learn and practice, liberating when you do.

Take care Will and Tracie.

I feel like I am in a Lifetime movie! Trust me the movie sucks!

We are not moving forward, just sitting here all these emotions. The weekend I went away I sign for a family member to get a hotel room and today I got an email from the hotel. As Tracie was during her daily investigation of me she found the email. I had nothing to hide I told her that I had gotten the room at the request of a family member he paid for the room and spent an evening there I guess.

Why do I feel like this is a parent/ child relationship rather than a marriage? I need to report my every movement to my wife when I am not in her presents she reviews my phone call logs and everything thing I do. I have always made myself available via my cell and giving her information about my location and what I am doing. But do in need to give a play by play or turn by turn of who I see and what I am doing.

My wife uses my cell phone as a control device over me. If I'm away from home she calls my cell to see what I am doing when she already know where I am and what I am doing. While out of town the 1st time I called her often to reassure her that I was at my location doing what I stated. Tracie got upset due to the often calls and texts and asked me to stop. I stop texting and calling but once she starts to text and call me if I did not answer I was messing around on her or wrong.

On my last trip out of town I asked Tracie to go but she refused (dose not like my mother) I also offer to take the kids with me since it was my dad's birthday, again she refused.

On my arrival to my parent's the family went out to dinner and return home. On the trip back home my mother and father started discussed something and my father went out afterwards I hung out with him for a bit and returned to my family's home when a friend and her husband called and asked me out. I went out for about an hour and return home. During that time Tracie called my phone 9 times.

The next day I had planned to eat lunch with a friend but he was called back to work. Instead I went shooting at a local range and between 1- 430 or 500 Tracie had called my phone about 35 times and called everyone she had a number for in the area.

All in all I did not cheat and I have no plans of cheating so why am I being treated his way? I have made it clear that before I cheat I will end this relationship...I am the person who want to save our marriage, and the person who is trying to deal with this business partnership. I am dealing with mood swings and emotional abuse from her. I lost it the other night and told her how I felt about her cheating on me. I may have used some harsh word but I told her how I felt and it really felt good.

At this point I just want peace back in my house. This is not how life should or suppose to be. Life in the home is like running thru a field of land mines.

I am also tried of putting on a show for others in the community or reading her post false information on social networking boards to project a happy marriage. We have the furthers thing from a happy marriage.

I have read that something must be lacking in a realtionship for an affiar to happen..... she has not told me yet what was lacking or a reason for the affair. I am getting over it but, the fact that I am deal with all the trust issuse is really pissing me off. She has not trust issue to deal with but she is the one the brought another person into our bed!

Now, that bring my friend into the picture. Will someone call a spade a spade, I am the victum here but i am also the one doing time.... please explain this.

She still talk to men on the phone that I have not met yet and they live in the local area. I have made it clear that i don't like it but has anything changed, no! My friend is worryed that she may have breast cancer and contacted me about it. When I informed my wife she was like so!

All folk and the board post is work on me and end my friendship but what about the root of the problem.The root is Tracie want to be in control and have everything her way. This is my truth and I know this after noon I will have to deal with the fallout of this post. My truth really does not matter while her truth is all that counts. Marriage is a two way street!


I wish the ending would come good or bad so the credits can roll....this is stressing me out.

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This is not how life should or suppose to be.

Will. Life IS supposed to be like this at least some of the time. It is hard, full of dangers, and extraordinarily challenging. It's supposed to be.

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The root is Tracie want to be in control and have everything her way.

I believe that what you're seeing is the beginning of a very good thing. You're seeing the beginning of Tracie growing up.

The trouble is, you're throwing a huge freaking tantrum because the thought of being a grownup scares the bejeezus out of you.

That's understandable. It's a scary proposition. But the thing is, when you both finally make it to being grownups, you will have a whole lot more fun.

And in fact, you're entirely wrong about the root of the problem. The root of the problem existed long before your EA and long before Tracie's affair. It's just that y'all are so intertwined that when one of you acts like a grownup, the other feels controlled.

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I wish the ending would come good or bad so the credits can roll....this is stressing me out.

You can walk out of the movie theater anytime you want to. You might miss a really cool ending, of course, but you can walk out any time you want. The fact that the movie isn't what you want right now is a bummer -- and you don't get the choice to change it, unless you change yourself. When you're ready to do that, let us know.

By the way, your posting style has been that you post about your daily or weekly events, but you don't respond to much that others say to you. For me, that means that I can't tell whether you're reading what we write and ignoring it, or whether you're thinking about it and trying some of it, or whether what we write is so scary that you just hide from it, or what's going on. It'd help me some if you could address it a bit.

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On my last trip out of town I asked Tracie to go but she refused (dose not like my mother) I also offer to take the kids with me since it was my dad's birthday, again she refused.

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As Tracie was during her daily investigation of me she found the email.

Actually I wasn't investigating the e-mail. It's the email that my family has for both of us and sends everything to. That's the way it has been the whole time we have had that adress because it went to outlook. It's ok though, I will email them all today with my personal e-mail and make sure they sent stuff there for now on. It's also the email that all of our bills are set up to be sent to and payment verifications. I will also start changing those.

This is not the reason I didn't go. The reason I did not go is because it is an 8 hour drive one way. I did not get off work that Friday until 3:20. He was supposed to go to dinner that night with his family (we would not have made it in time). We would have gotten there late Friday night and spent Sat. there and had to come back Sunday to be to work Monday. That much time in the car with the kids, not my idea of a good time. On top of that, we would have to get a motel room because my youngest daughter gets sick every time we stay at his moms house because of the cigarette smoke. The other reason, is plain and simple, I did not want to spend that much time with him.

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She still talk to men on the phone that I have not met yet and they live in the local area. I have made it clear that i don't like it but has anything changed, no! My friend is worryed that she may have breast cancer and contacted me about it. When I informed my wife she was like so!

You never made it clear you don't like it. You simply bring it up when I bring up S. Any other time you can care less. We talk perhaps once a month. That's it. We don't see each other at all, so there has been no opportunity for the two of you to meet.

Remember your friend S, said she has no respect for me or our marriage, her words, not mine. Why would I respond any other way? <Waving Hi, S> Im sure you will send her here to read.

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All folk and the board post is work on me and end my friendship but what about the root of the problem.The root is Tracie want to be in control and have everything her way. This is my truth and I know this after noon I will have to deal with the fallout of this post. My truth really does not matter while her truth is all that counts. Marriage is a two way street!

And I have told you for the longest time, if you dont like it leave. Like I told you last night, you won't leave. You are waiting for me to make the move so you can put it all on me. That's fine.

Every time something doesn't go your way you complain about how I am mentally,physically, and verbally abusive to you. Or that I have mental illness and am bi-polar and whatever else you try to convince my family of.

The fallout, all I am trying to do is get along with you for the girls. I have made it clear I am not trying to work on the marriage. I am not even able to sigh, cross my arms, or breath differently without going through 100 questions. I am tired of you asking me for a kiss or expecting me to hug you before you leave to work. I did kiss you the other day while we were out of town. Tried to really enjoy the day. Of course, you were texting your friend the whole time and then brought her up on our way home.

I believe we can parent the girls together and enjoy them without us being involved. If we can't then it really is time for one of us to find another place to live.

Wow...I don't know if I agree with J's assessment that either of you are acting like a grown up. Both of you seem to be in some sort of high school time warp or something. You seem so intent on hurting one another and really it seems like you are hurting yourselves as much or more than one another.

This sounds to me like a very unhealthy relationship and a very unhealthy place for your girls to grow up.

Do either of you realize that this sort of modeling for your kids is going to affect thier life and how they view and set up thier own romantic relationships. You guys are doing more than sniping at and deliberatly hurting one another...you are doing great damage to your children. Please think that through before you continue down this road. Put those babies first, whether that means really working at the marriage or disolving it I don't know...but I really fear for the emotional and relational damage being done to your kids.

If she is viewing our marraige as a business arrangment, why are we having all the drama?

I wanted a marriage, if any of you looked back over the past 2 years it is clear that our marriage was getting better. Yes , we had our bumps in the road but it was getting better as days went by. Today all the drama we are dealing with come from her affair. Tracie had every piece of me wrapped around her fingers.

Yes I am hurt and not trying to hurt her I am fight to get myself back to a good place where I can make some decisions on my future. I have no place of living like this forever, but I know I can't make a life long decision today.

I wish I could change the way my wife feels about herself, I can not!

I have taken advice from the page and worked on me however as I take back indepedance and get stronger I fight more with Tracie.

I really want my marraige but not at the expense of me. She has had controlled for so long now that I am changeing she is not happy. I have deal with Tracie growing and changing... I am very happy that she is growing and changing
anything she can do to make her life better I am happy.

The OM from her past also aided in her change. As I think about things Tracie has alway told me that I settle by marrying her. I see that differently she settle for me by marrying me. She had a physical and emational affair with the Om after I supported her thru a master's degree and coaching and daily family life. On the day Tracie went to pick up her diploma she searched for him on FB. This did not just happen Tracie went looking and found him and called him behind my back and started closeing the access I had to her life. She also put me thur hell over the holiday telling me that i was fat and nasty and that she just did not want to be with me any more. All cuz she was sleeping around. From that day to this one i have not slept around on her and have no plans too...

I don't post her daily due to the probelms it causes and the fact that her feeling are hidden to me but mine are out in the open. I feel that that is disrespectful becuase in the claose area she could be setting me up for a great deal of pain and more hurt feeling. This is a hard palce to be in with not one to talk too.

I have to walk away from my friend due to her feeling but my feeling don't really matter!

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I really want my marraige but not at the expense of me.

Good.

Except.... the rest of your post is all about how all your feelings are her fault. Which they are not. Your feelings are yours. You're doing a great job of being really really really angry about that simple fact, you know.

Your feelings are yours. Don't like how you feel? It's your job to change it. Not hers. Not anyone's but yours.

Oh, and I don't think I would be giving away any secrets when I say that my postings to everyone on these boards, whether hidden or open, are consistent in their tone, content, and message. If you think you're the only one getting this treatment, well, look around you. Loui, me, Penny, and everyone else posting here? We are all entirely consistent in our posting styles. If we give you a hard time about something, you can be quite sure that anyone else, anywhere else, will get a hard time about those things, too.


Melissa, I realize that watching this drama looks a lot like high school. Tracie and Will are in a turbulent spot, for sure. They are each testing the boundaries to see how far the threats and ranting can go, to see whether the other person will back off from the changes and growth that are occurring. Eventually they will realize that they are in fact playing with fire, and then it'll get a whole lot quieter as they truly consider the huge impact of the changes they're considering.

Until then, yup. Fireworks and drama. It's not bad drama. It's also the standard reaction to a severe case of "growing-itis." Icky hard work, growing. We all have our moments of incredible drama while we're doing it. It's just that mostly we don't get to see that process here on the boards, because we only get one half of the couple's story.