Hello, I'm new here. After searching the web for weeks, buying and reading books, talking to my therapist, my friends and my spouse, I found this site and wanted to put my story out there and maybe get some independent, objective thoughts. Here's my story...

My wife and I have been married for 11 years. We've known each other for over 15. We have two children whom we love. For the entire time we have known each other, both dating and married, we have had a happy, fulfilling relationship. We have typical marital strife from time to time (who doesn't) but nothing even approaching 'contemplating divorce'. I have always been a very easy to get along with spouse. I don't make jealous demands on my wife, whenever she asks, I hardly ever tell her no. I love and respect her and she loves and respects me.... or at least I thought so. Now, I'm not so sure.

It all began right after Thanksgiving. My wife has developed a friendship with a female neighbor. One night after Thanksgiving, she said she was going to hang out with this friend. She didn't come home until 3am. Not altogether odd, I guess. My wife is very active in her church and has friends she hangs out with frequently and occassionally, they stay out late. No big deal. However, most of the time these late nights were before we had children. As anyone with children will acknowledge, you generally don't have the energy for much of that behavior after kids. Anyway... I didn't think too much of it. Except she did it a second night and then a third night in a row. By the third night, I was near mental/emotional breakdown. I 'confronted' her about it when she came home. She said they were just friends and they stayed out late. She assured me over the next couple days nothing was wrong. However, she began 'hiding' her email when I could come into our computer room. When I checked with her about going to lunch, I got a story about her hanging out with a coworker. Something didn't ring true. My gut was telling me something was going on.

One Sunday, she left early with the kids to go to church. I was leaving later to take a second car so she could stay after to do one of her inumerable church things and I would take the kids home. I went to check the TV schedule for football games, and when the browser came up, it was set to her email as a default home page and it autologged in. And there I read what *I* would characterize as love letters between this other woman and my wife. I was devastated. I couldn't believe was I was seeing. One of the things I love about my wife and one of the biggest reasons I married her is because I genuinely like my wife as a person and trust her implicitly. What I saw was not the woman I married or recognized. Nothing in my 15+ years of knowing her prepared me for it. I read email upon email where they professed their undying love for each other, couldn't think of anything else but being together and also learned that my wife had lied to me about her lunch plans. She had had plans with the female friend.

When I saw her at church, I was in a daze. I was emotionally shutting down. I couldn't look at her or talk to her. She pulled me out and wanted to know what she'd done. I told her that this, of all places, was not where I wanted to talk about it. When she got home later that day, we had a fight. I cried as I confronted her. She was angry and defensive. Angry that I both read her email (we've always had each others account/pwd info. She's free to read mine, I don't care. She's always been fine with showing me an email she got) and because, as she put it, I was 'accusing her of being a lesbian'. She told me I had no right to define what a female friendship was and that's exactly what this was, no more. That female friends talk to each other that way. I ended up feeling even more horrible. Her explanation sounded plausible and rational and I knew I *wasn't* at that point.

A few more days went by and she stayed out til 3am again with this friend. When she got home, I got up and went to work. I couldn't deal. I had to occupy my mind. She was very angry at me about this. She said she didn't like walking on eggshells and never knew who or what she was going to come to. I contacted my therapist and had a good session. At least, I felt better after talking. I didn't have any resolution, but it felt good to talk. When I got home, I talked to her about my session. I always do. This led to another fight. We eventually calmed down and had a good talk and it felt like she began to understand me some.

The following weekend, we went as a family to a vacation retreat. We had a decent time. The next weekend, my wife took my two children out of town with this woman and her child. This had been planned for some time. That's what friends do, right? While she was gone, I got a total of about 3 minutes worth of phone time talking to her. The night she was supposed to come home, she called at 9pm and said they were on their way and they'd be home in about 2 hrs. At 11:45pm, she called and said they were JUST THEN leaving. Odd, yes? At close to 3am, they pulled into the driveway. I was shaking with fear and anxiety. The instant I knew they were safe and home, the fear turned in inappropriate anger. After getting the kids out of the car and in bed and everything of my wife's out of the car, we had a DOOZY of a fight. I said all sorts of hateful things in my anger. I evened threatened to leave at one point. She physically stopped me from leaving.

Things have more or less followed this cycle for a month and a half now. I have a couple days where I feel like myself and reasonably happy, then something triggers an anxiety/depressive episode. These triggers are almost always something to do with my wife and this 'friend' of hers. I'm not a perfect person, but I am a faithful and good husband. I have never cheated on my wife and I don't recall ever hiding the truth or outright lying to her. I've certainly phrased things in ways to be less hurtful, but I don't think I've outright lied.

I DID read her email when I shouldn't have and I've had moments of weakness when I've read it again. Every time I do, I read something that upsets me. Things like they can't stand being away from each other. They think about running away together. They're soulmates. One night when the two families were having a dinner/movie night, we all sat on the couch together. The friend on the other side of my wife from me. I read in an email that although my wife was holding my hand, it was out of obligation rather than affection and that they were both distracted from the movie by their proximity to each other. They feel 'desire' and/or 'hotflashes' for each other. At one point, my wife was trying to convince me to go on a business trip that I haven't wanted to go on to begin with because it would correspond with a trip this other woman's husband is going on and they would have 'two whole weeks alone together without husbands to bother them'.

After having another session with my therapist and yet another fight with my wife when I talked about my session, we are going to a new therapist. My wife has a friend who works for this new therapist. Interestingly enough, from my initial talk with this therapist, this therapist, like my original therapist, things SOMETHING is going on, just maybe not as evil or nefarious as my mind is telling me.

That's my story. I can't tell if my intuition is right or not. I do have emotional baggage. That's why I was in therapy and on an anti-depressant. I've been in therapy and on the medication for over a year, almost 2 and I've never had ANYTHING like this raise it's head. My intuition is telling me my wife is having at least an emotional affair. This friend is now going to our church and sitting with us. It feels like she's invading my marriage. My wife can't see it. She thinks it's all in my head. I thought we needed marriage counseling. She didn't. My first therapist initially agreed with her. Then, he changed his mind and said we did. The new therapist was shocked that we weren't already in therapy. I can't resolve my feelings because I can't tell if I'm getting the truth. I think I know the truth from reading the emails, but I should'n't have done that and every time I've brought up what I thought was a legitimate point, my wife has argued with me to the point where I question myself. I have no confidence....

Can anyone help?

I should add that additional emails have indicated my wife has lied to me about the time she's spending with this woman. If it's just a friendship and not in any way inappropriate, why the deception? This woman caresses and touches my wife in front of me. She can't bear to be in the same room and NOT be at my wife's side. They look at each other like young lovers. Dreamy eyed and all romantic...

Hi,
Welcome to SYMC.

Your wife is having an affair. I know she is trying to talk you out of it, but everything points that direction. I'm so sorry. I think you know that already, although very typically your wife is trying everything she can to deflect it. If you saw the e-mails and are experiencing everything that you are, it is very difficult to deny it.

Have you read through the eBook here at SYMC? It will give you a roadmap on what to do going forward. You might start there.

What you are about to embark on is very difficult work. It is importamt that you take care of yourself. How are your eating and sleeping?

Who else knows about this affair beside you, your wife and the OW? When you are ready, I think you should start exposing this to everyone who might have influence over your wife and OW, especially OW's husband.

GS

I'm hardly sleeping. I went thru a period where I wasn't eating.

My therapist suggested to me that I should take the pulse of the OW's husband, but again, I fear I will be CAUSING trouble where there might be none. My wife has repeatedly assured me that there's NO romantic bonds, there's NO physical exchange outside of the hugs and handholding (she again explains this as typical girl friendship behavior).

My wife has offered to break off the friendship. I can see the terror in her eyes when she makes this offer. I KNOW it's terror because I've read in emails where she tells this friend she'll never give her up. The OW says their emotional connection is deeper than my connection with my wife.

We're about to go to a new therapist. I haven't owned up to my own deception of reading her emails when I said I wouldn't. Should I bring that up? Again, every time I think I have 'proof' or something like that, I end up feeling like a complete jerk. I'm inappropriately jealous, I'm controlling, I'm..... a BAD HUSBAND. I don't know if bringing up the fact that I've periodically read her emails will be the nail in the coffin or not. Am I in denial?

I'll read the ebook. Thanks.

Hi SOC. Sorry for your situation, and welcome here. I think it's very lucky you found this place.

I'll leave you to the more experienced folk, but I just wanted to tell you, with absolute certainty, that this is not... I repeat NOT... typical girl friendship behaviour. Not Not Not. And I find it scary that she has managed to make yourself doubt yourself so much that she can tell you 2+2=5 and you find yourself feeling guilty for doubting it. That's why I think it's lucky you found us. Or anyone for that matter. You need to hear from somebody other than her.
Maybe she's convinced herself too... maybe it's so outside her perception of herself that she could be having a same sex relationship, that she justifies it this way too. Ever heard of the phenomenon where a person argues the hardest for something they WANT to beleive rather than know is true?

I would print out the emails before she changes her passwords. It's not great reading someone's emails and I know you feel guilt over it, but it pales into insignificance next to what she's doing, so just switch off the guilt and print out your proof, to start with.

And don't doubt yourself so much. If it looks like a lemon, tastes like a lemon, feels like a lemon and it's yellow - don't let anybody tell you it's a tomato.

Or alternatively... when you doubt yourself... imagine it was a guy 'friend' doing all this. A guy she wrote all that romantic loving stuff to - a guy who can't stop hanging around her and touching her and hugging her and making doe-eyes at her RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU - a guy who she calls her 'soulmate' and says she will run away with - a guy who she stays out till 3am with and takes family holidays with ... and then tells you the guy is just a 'friend'. Would you believe it then? No? So why would you when it's a girl? You both know that same sex attractions are possible, and it's hard to see how much more blatant it would have to be short of catching them in bed together. Which you might if you popped over there at 3am. And if it was a guy she was having the affair with - would you still be feeling guilty about reading her emails?

Sorry I'd meant to keep this short. But this whole thing of her swearing black is white and you feeling bad for doubting it has me really riled up. FORGET THE GENDER THING. Believe what YOUR mind/heart/eyes tell you. Black is black, lemon is a lemon and if you can't imagine the situation being ok if the girl friend was replaced by a guy friend... then the situation is not ok.

Thank you, Mags.

We had a conversation last night. She did her regular Wednesday night activities with her church groups. These have never bothered me before. Last night, when she got home, I found out the OW was there. Now, the OW had reason to be there for the first couple hours. There's a women's group my wife is a part of at our church. The OW going to this doesn't set off alarm bells. However, my wife then goes and does another activity with another set of people at church. This activity goes for 1.5-2 hours and is NOT something the OW knows anything about or participates in. She stayed. I don't know if she stayed with the other women from the first group or not. I'm 99% positive that she went and sat and made calves eyes at my wife while my wife did her other activity. And then they all stood around talking for 2 hours.

In my wife's defense, she told me the OW was there. She didn't try to hide it. However, this is yet another example of the OW continually pushing for more of my wife's time. It's always more, more, more. It's incremental. Just when I think I've resolved how I feel about something, it gets pushed just a TAD farther, and I'm off to the races emotionally/mentally.

I am honestly doubting my own sanity. I see only two options. Either everything I'm feeling/seeing/interpreting is right and she IS having an affair (and you're not the first people to tell me this) or I have serious a serious mental illness thing going on. I was pondering last night if the 'conflict' I feel inside of me, the feeling of something not being resolved, is me not wanting to take responsibility for my emotions. I think it's possible I can't make the decision. I can't dismiss either side. I want someone ELSE to make the definitive call for me... it saves me from making a decision and that decision being the wrong one.

The night we had the doozy of a fight, at the most emotional moment, I declared I was getting a bag and packing some things to leave. She physically stopped me. She later said the only thing that makes going thru all this (my 'depression') possible for her is knowing I'm going to be there at the end of it. She said that me leaving was the one thing she couldn't forgive.

I feel like every time we try to talk about this, her focus is on how to work things so she can still have her friend. My focus is eliminating things that can or will have a corrosive effect on our marriage relationship. She cannot understand why I have such a problem with her behavior and this friend's behavior. She assures me this friend is a friend to our marriage and tells her how much I love her and how good we are as a couple. She claims the OW has a healthy and happy marriage and that the OW is devoted to her husband, so there couldn't be anything going on. Yet as I get more and more tidbits, I start to get a picture of what I describe as two women who've 'discovered' each other and are not being entirely honest with themselves. I think they are attracted to each other. I think it's only a matter of time before I and the other poor SOB find ourselves told that the two women are moving in together...

I'd dearly love to go and talk to the other husband... But if I'm at all wrong, I could be kicking off a firestorm. There's apparently already some unrest in the marriage.

The most difficult thing for me right now is shielding my children from it. I can't take action to protect myself.

Hi -

The danger to your family is real. This is addictive behavior, truth an early casualty.

"her focus is on how to work things so she can still have her friend." This is real.

When you separate addicts from the 'stuff'(whatever it is), they react, denie, threaten, etc... This is not new or unexpected (but does suck).

You can help your kids by studying up on this quick.

Talk to the other husband. Print the email. Take care of yourself. Since ther's not much to be believed you really don't need to get to worried about what your W explains, threatens right now. Walk the dog, borrow one if you need to. Peace and grace are always in style.

Hang in there!

ATB,
SB

quote:

I'd dearly love to go and talk to the other husband... But if I'm at all wrong, I could be kicking off a firestorm. There's apparently already some unrest in the marriage

Well hmmm.. I'd clearly say there is one of those happening in your marriage already... and IF this "friend's" H is okay with whats going on then a simple... "I'm not. So can we discuss this in grown up fashion about not allowing it in your house"...might be just fine. If he does know about it I'd certainly like his take on it.. and if he doesn't know, he certainly deserves to, don't you think?

May I suggest you buy the book 'not just friends', by Shirley Glass and tell your wife you'd like to read it together and do the exercises in it together? Tell her its something that you feel will help your marriage.

Just because its a same sex friendship doesn't mean there can't be an affair, or affair-like behavior. The issues discussed in that book cross any inappropriate line of communication between so called 'friends'.

Her feeling guilty about you possibly leaving is that attachment thing to her marriage kicking in..thats something you need to use to your advantage. Right now she is using every trick in the book to have her marriage and her friend...otherwise known as having your cake and eating it too. Marriage doesn't work that way and you have to stand up and claim what is rightfully yours to claim.
Loui

Thanks @ the two previous posters. I'm getting more and more help and support from each reply.

I've run across mention of the book by Shirley Glass several times. One of the reasons I have not already read it is the strong denial and anger from my W that this is in any way an inappropriate relationship. However, I have just ordered the book from Amazon.com. Thank you for your suggestion and, again, I welcome more replies.

Am I just in denial? I admit one of the harder things about this is believing my wife is capable of this. I would NEVER have expected her to behave like this. Everything keeps getting redirected back on to me and my depression. And I've read countless books on depression that seem to in some way corroborate that I might have low-self esteem or abandonment issues. But my gut is telling me something else. My gut has always been very reliable.

I haven't been able to admit this to her, but yes, I very much want her to break off the relationship totally. I can't do this because in my mind, I don't want her to resent me and I think it's important that she realize WHY this relationship needs to be ended. She told me the other day that she "bristles at the thought of our marriage failing". She swears that she's as interested in doing everything to save our marriage as I am, but doesn't agree that our marriage is at risk. She does admit that we might have been neglecting each other and taking each other for granted and there has been a lot more time spent together in the last week or two. But my gut is telling me this is her way of 'buying me off'. Get me feeling good so she can get back to her friend. This 'friend' is unlike any other she's ever had. It's a close, intimate friendship. They feel like sisters. When she first told me that, I could kind of believe it and it made me feel a little bit better. But the very next day, my intuition or feelings started yelling at me, "You're sticking your head in the sand! You're TRYING to find a lie you can believe!".

I mentioned to my therapist and to her, that if roles were reversed and she was having THIS much trouble with something I was doing, I'D QUIT INSTANTLY. Nothing is more important to me than my marriage. My therapist's reaction was a sort of knowing, "uh, DUH!" type thing. My wife's reaction was verbal assurance that she felt the same way, that the marriage was the most important, but that she couldn't understand why she couldn't have both a happy marriage and a close friendship.

You're right, at the very least, this is addictive behavior. I actually used that word a month ago to describe the behavior. The OW is INVADING my relationship and life. She is NOT like the other good friends my W has had. All of those seemed to intuitively or automatically understand that we were married and that gave our marriage priority over their friendship. This OW is continuously pushing at the boundaries.

She actually wrote me a letter. After I read my wife's emails the first time, my W was very upset at my violation of her trust. She had to tell the OW about it. The OW wrote me a letter to let me know that all was forgiven, that she was nothing more than a friend, etc, etc etc. I felt better long enough for her to utter the phrase, "I'm greedy" in response to my W asking if I'd mind her and the OW doing something later that day.

If there are problems in our marriage, if I'm not living up to my side of the deal, if my W is unhappy, I will happily make whatever changes or promises are necessary for her to be happy. But I deserve the RIGHT to be told about it first. I am her husband. It's not acceptable to outside the marriage to meet some need.

Hi -

Louie is the best!

Hey - It helped me a great deal to re-read the good stuff folks wrote so it could sink into my exceptionally thick skull.

Also, Don't stick your head in the sand. You'll just get sand in your nose AND get run over.

Hang in there,
SB

Yeah, I'm reading other posts on this site in hopes of learning from experiences of others. I've already read just about every one of the 'articles' on the symcinc.com site and, wow, they REALLY hit home with me.

quote:

Am I just in denial?

Yes, by the sound of it. And probably she is too.
Either that or as you say, suffering from some form of hallucination.
Print the emails, take them to a close friend who you trust, ask them whether after reading them, there is any doubt in their mind. Or to your individual counsellor, as long as it's not the same person as your marriage counsellor. From what you said is in them... I have NO DOUBT what's going on, and find it interesting that you do. But I haven't read the emails. Ask somebody to.

quote:

"You're sticking your head in the sand! You're TRYING to find a lie you can believe!".

Yes, that's what it sounds like. The truth in this case is extremely painful. You are motivated to hope that it's not so, and to cling to anything that tells you that. Ditto with your wife.

The making it your problem - her calling it your 'depression' and acting like she's making a big sacrifice by sticking with you through it - makes me fume. I'd be interested to see anyone NOT feel depressed about their spouse having an affair right in front of their eyes.

Look, keep in mind that your wife may not intentionally be deceiving you about the nature of this thing. She's possibly in major denial too. She may not see herself as someone who could be interested in a woman, if she never has been before. And it is HEAVILY in her interests to hold this perception of herself, because then she can justify a relationship that in reality, goes WAY beyond friends, without giving anything up. There are 3 people in your marriage. She can justify this in her head if OW is categorised as 'friend' contrary to all evidence.

quote:

They feel like sisters.

I doubt many sisters are that obsessed with each other.

quote:

Yet as I get more and more tidbits, I start to get a picture of what I describe as two women who've 'discovered' each other and are not being entirely honest with themselves.

Yes, that's what it sounds like to me too.

SOC, good luck with this all, and especially the first step - getting your head clear. At least once you have some confidence in your own perceptions, you'll be able to act more confidently rather than having the unproductive fights. At the moment those fights are probably unhelpful to both of you because you aren't yet feeling comfortable or justified in what you need/want to ask for. Once you are comfortable with it... well there will still be battles because she won't be. But at least you will be sure of where you stand.

Seriously, print the letters and show them to someone... let us know what they say.
And also - do the exercise of imagining the friend was a guy. If he was... is there any possibility you would consider him just a friend?

quote:

Louie is the best!

...tanks you!

Well.. lets go on the supposition (and I say this verrrry loosely).. that this is not a romantic/affair type relationship. Lets say that it is just two girls who 'feel' like sisters...

If your wife is spending hrs at unusual times with her, rather than with you.. and not being 100% open/honest about what is going on when they are together..and tries to deflect your concerns back onto you and denies that she is harming the marriage and refuses to give up something that you say is causing strife in your relationship...

well golly gee whiz.. I think I'd STILL say your wife's behavior and relationship with this person is inappropriate.

The fact that the OW felt compelled to email you as well imho says... guilty conscience... and that she too is trying to keep her addiction intact.

So...

What are you prepared to do in order to lay some boundaries concerning your wife, this friend and your marriage? Obviously just talking is going nowhere...

Loui

Hi there,

I have not COMPLETELY read through the posts here, but I did read fully your first one. I feel so bad for you, you obviously love your wife, you are protecting her as well, and questioning your own judgment. I think it is irrelevant whether or not it is an 'affair', the fact of the matter is.....this 'relationship' she has is causing you pain and suffering, and in turn causing a GREAT deal of turmoil in your marriage. Being the spouse you are not out of line asking her to END the "FRIENDSHIP" which is CLEARLY way more than that!!!

I truly wish you a happy outcome!
((((HUUGG)))))
Gabriel