I am so relieved to have found this site. I did a lot wrong after DDay 2 months ago. He claimed to go NC with OW then but started locking everything up. I kept investigating, gradually confirming the A was continuing. He kept insisting it was problems between us, not an OW.
2 weeks ago, I found flyers for Pay as you go phones sticking out of his pocket and snapped. Her or me! I told him "Remove her from our lives and work on our marriage or leave. It makes no sense to work on us as long as she is in the picture." He left saying it wasn't a choice, it was stuff between him and I. Still hoping and wanting to believe him, a few days later found out where he was staying, took a late night drive by and her car was there in the motel lot near his. I was sure I'd pushed the EA to PA. A week later he returned to the house for stuff. It was very tearful for us both. He wouldn't talk about it or admit to A still! In a round about way, admitted he loves her and loves me and is confused. Can't talk to me.

Then I found SYMC! I started with the form letter to OW. He emailed me the next day in anger which was quickly diffused when I called him & explained I was going to fight for our 23 year marriage and do everything in my power to end his relationship w/her. I would not defend my actions. I also told him I would be outing the A to those closest to us first. We talked on the phone most of the day. It was painful for me but I remained calm, sweet and listened with compassionate understanding, and didn't react to the hurt. I was so glad he was talking! He explained he is afraid of spending the rest of his life wondering what might have been w/her. I presented a case for staying with our marriage and he says he realizes what he'd be losing which shows how significant his feelings are. (She left her husband the day after I tossed him)

SO...... now i have informed 2 of their/ our common friends and asked for their support (took the form and tweeked it a bit) It helped having a script that was neutral sounding. I have a dozen more calls to make but they are so exhausting, I seem to only be able to get through one a day.
Is this OK?
He is feeling pretty good about us after our talk but I know is more concerned about her. (cake eating!)

OMG! While typing this, an email from him came in:" What would it take for you to not be threatened by having her stay as a friend?"

So my quandry is: Do I go into protection phase now to stop cake-eating? Or since we just started talking about everything, continue with exposure and be available to listen.(I wasn't a good listener in our marrige)
I can't even answer the email. It is evident he is deeply in the fog.
I had been trying to educate him but he rejects the idea that his feelings are fantasy or that he is in any kind of fog.

Welcome here you've found a great place, though I'm very sorry for what's brought you here.

You're doing great. Wow.

quote:

I seem to only be able to get through one a day

Just the fact that you're getting through a day, full stop, is a fantastic acheivement. And well done with being non-emotional on the call to him too - again, wow, that's incredibly impressive.

Are you eating and sleeping ok and looking after yourself? Do you have friends/family who you are getting emotional support from?

Do you guys have any children? How has the affair been going on for? And how did D Day occur?

I'll let the experts answer your question about protection phase and what approach to take. The email could be seen as a good sign, depending on how you take it. On the one hand it means that as deep as he is, it seems he'd still like to choose you if only he can not have to lose her from his life. That sounds like a good sign. But on the other hand yes, he's still very deeply in the fog.

Is he willing to do any reading?
From a WS perspective it might be best not to use the words fantasy and fog too much, it may just make him feel misunderstood and unheard. Because in a way the feelings are real - the chemicals and thoughts and feelings are the same ones anybody feels when they first fall in love - the thing that is hard to recognise at the time is that those chemicals don't last forever. Think back to when you were first in love and thought they would. And they do warp thinking (the 'fog') - but then so does bereavement, betrayal, stress, etc. etc. - any major event - and we don't tend to tell those people they aren't thinking straight. Not in so many words at least. He'll probably come to see it when he starts coming out of it a bit.
That said, reading about the chemical side did help me when I was in that position, so there's a book I could recommend. But really unless he's in that sort of headspace, something that academic is probably not going to make a dent right now - you're probably the best judge of that.

Good luck with this and hang in there - you're doing great.

Hi,
Welcome to SYMC - I'm sorry for the reason you are here, but we're glad you found us. It's a bit slow here on the weekends, so bear with us.

You sound very brave and it takes a great deal of bravery to do what you are doing by exposing. In case you are wondering if you're doing the right thing, you really are.

Expose as much as you possibly can handle. Even if it's once per day, that's ok. It isn't a race and there really isn't a deadline or timetable. The more you can turn up the heat, the more (hopefully) it will help your husband see his affair in the light of day through the eyes of everyone he respects and holds dear.

Don't forget to tell OW's husband. Even though she left him, he might not know the full reason. Maybe you already have this covered. Perhaps he can be exposing from his side of things too.

If I were you...I would keep exposing for as long as I could handle it. Protection comes afterward after the boat is totally rocked and all the secrecy is gone.

Right now, you are burning the house down. Expose until the affair ends and ends it with OW. If after you've exposed as much as you can and he still hasn't ended it...then Protection for you.

I hope you're taking care of yourself too. Sleeping ok? Drink lots of water, eat something/anything. Take breaks from all this drama.

As far as trying to educate him - you're probably wasting your time and energy with that. He unfortunately, can't really hear what you are saying. Right now, he's probably negotiating just to keep OW in his life.

You...well, you're setting boundaries. Not for him - for you. You decide what you will and will not accept FOR YOU. You can't make him do anything. You CAN decide whether you listen to him plead and wail, or whether you don't.

Right now, he is sitting on a fence. You can shove, you can make the choices clear, you can enlist the help of friends and family...but it's really up to him what he does. Natural consequences though is your natural ally. He needs to live with his choices for awhile, because sometimes, that's what we need to see clearer. I wish that weren't the case, but sigh...it is.

When you are ready for Protection, think ahead before you do it. There are some details that need to be worked out ahead of time to ensure you insolate from the chaos that is probably a daily part of your life right now.

In the meantime, please take care of you. Read, read, read all you can. And I'd really recommend contacting Penny here at SYMC. She can be a strong ally and confidant for you.

There are lots of folks who can offer help and support here too. Hang in there - we all know how hard it is to do what you are doing right now.

Hugs,
GS

This message has been edited. Last edited by: GS_SYMC,

Hi Shatteredlife,

I am not able to give you any useful advice, but I wanted to greet you and let you know that you have come to a good place for help. I am so sorry for what you are going through - I am over 2 years down the line but am still finding it hard to get my head around.

My instict is to say that you seem to be doing many of the right things. I'm sure more experienced people will be around tomorrow to give their advice. I like the 'What would it take for you to not be threatened by having her stay as a friend?' question. I just can't think of an extreem enough reply! A really good book about this is 'Not just good friends' by Shirley Glass.

You sound as though you are keeping your emotions under control - be sure that you are looking after yourself as much as you can. Eat nutritious food and try and get some sleep. I hope you have some good people around you who can offer their support and care.

Hope this helps a little,
Jules

quote:

OMG! While typing this, an email from him came in:" What would it take for you to not be threatened by having her stay as a friend?"

Oh, and this. Translation: "How serious are you about my affair ending?"

You know they can't be friends. Their actions together have harmed you and your marriage. She can't be your friend. The peel already came off that orange.

She very much is a threat to your marriage. That isn't just you feeling threatened. You would feel threatened because you ARE being threatened.

You can answer or you can speak with your silence. Personally, I think I would just simply respond - "If we have any hope of making our marriage work, there can be only two in it, not three. Have a good day. "

You all are terrific! Thank you!
I do not have any patience, so I appreciate the encouragement.
I am not really courageous. Sending the email to the OW gave me lots of power. Before that, I was a fluctuating mess of emotions. As I expose the A, that power is reinforced.
We have 3 kids, d17, d14, s12. They are great kids and have kept me going.
Found out through cell records (bill was high) the calling began about a year ago, as did his behavior changes. She is a co-worker that we first met 2 years ago. My radar was up then, she has taken her time in persuing him.
I'm starting to feel like the OW!

Yes, he reads. We both have copies of the Glass book and I send links to other articles i find.
He picks and chooses what is said.
Which book would help clear his head?
OW had him watch Bridges of Madison Co. That is where the "I can't spend my whole life wondering, regretting, like they did in the movie" comes from.
FYI: recently he has been diagnosed w/ Depression ( lots in his family) and low testosterone and will soon start HRT. (he's 57)

I have had the kids alone for 2 weeks, maybe it is his turn for 2 weeks. That would bring a little reality to their lives, if I dropped them off in their nesting hideout. Hee-hee

Hey there. Great to hear you sounding so upbeat and empowered.
I found Helen Fisher's book "why we love" to be very informative. It's not anti affair or anything because it's not about affairs, it's a pretty scientific book about the chemicals of love, and my hope would be that it could help take him out of that "meant to be" sort of romantic space and into something a little more matter of fact - the addictiveness of new love and it's short duration. She has some articles online too if you care to search.
Bummer about the movie. I'm trying to think of a good movie that presents the other side, and I can't at the moment. Movies seem to be able to stir the emotions better. There was that one with Bruce Willis and Michelle Pfeiffer but I can't remember much about it so it probably wasn't that moving. And more recently some dance one with Richard Gere, but it sort of ended up circumventing the issue. Seems Hollywood prefers 'thwarted' love. Huh.

Duh, everything on TV these days, and the movies has some form of infidelity in it. It's everywhere and always the "great love"...uh huh. Never do we see the flip side. I think we should all collaborate on a script!!!

Anyhow, I am so happy you found us here. Hang in there. I admire your courage so far. I was such a mess, I couldn't undertake anything on my own to begin with. That soon changed though.

You came to the right place

oh wait, I did think of one. The movie that was on when my H dropped his bomb. The BS killed his wife and set it up to look like the AP did it and got away with it I think. No great love story there eh? Puts a bit of a bad light on the BS...

quote:

OW had him watch Bridges of Madison Co. That is where the "I can't spend my whole life wondering, regretting, like they did in the movie" comes from.

I remember reading the book. Didn't see the movie thank goodness.

Thing is...from what I remember about the book, I don't think Francesca would have changed her decision to leave her H. The price to him, to their children, was just to high and she couldn't do that to them.

And my personal opinion, she didn't regret her decision....she lived with the pain of losing someone who she became very attached to.

And that's kind of what falling in love with someone outside of your marriage does. The price to the innocents is very, very high if the AP leaves the family. And pulling out of an affair is very, very painful (for everyone).

I do hate that book though. Affairs aren't love stories.

quote:

I have had the kids alone for 2 weeks, maybe it is his turn for 2 weeks. That would bring a little reality to their lives, if I dropped them off in their nesting hideout. Hee-hee

LOL - well, that would place some trouble in paradise!

Since you have children, that for sure means you'll need to pre-plan out Protection Phase. You'll need to communicate about exchanges, school stuff, etc. so you'll need to find someone neutral to be the "go-between."

How are your kids taking all this?
GS

Hmmm..

Well there is a book out called "Not Just Friends".. by Shirley Glass. Which kind of explains the behaviors that opens the doors or windows of friendship to an affair. And the things that would have to change in order to shut them. If I remember correctly there were parts of that book that talk about once there has been an affair with a particular person, if the marriage is to survive.. that 3rd person has to go. It might be a good book to look at for the 2 of you (if he's serious about trying to end the affair).

I would highly suggest Penny's e-book too Overcoming Infidelity...

I believe its too soon for PP. Thats usually a last effort when all others have been exhausted.

Have you contacted his family yet? Yours? Many times thats a STRONG pull.. especially if his parents would be in your corner in order to save the marriage.

Do the kids know? How are they handling the seperation right now?

Loui

Hi ShatteredLife! Might want to pick up the pieces a bit, then change your username. I bet you'll start feeling better again one of these days.

I had to chuckle when you said this:

quote:

Which book would help clear his head?

Let me see, how to say this without violating our (very strong) stance opposing virtual violence.... Ah. Right.

It's not which book. It's how you use it.. I bet the Three Stooges would do all right with it!

Now, seriously. There are no books that can clear someone's head. There are many books that can help after the person's head starts to clear, but usually the head-clearing is a process all its own.

Two weeks of children is an thought on how to clear his head, I must say. Particularly two weeks of children staying in a motel and eating out of the vending machines. Very little time available for anything else in a situation like that!

Or, if you don't want them all staying in a hotel, you could try this:

"Dear husband,

I find that I am called away to Florida [or wherever] for two weeks starting on Sunday. I am -so- looking forward to the sun and warm weather! I will not be able to take the children with me, so I will leave you the keys and expect you hear to care for them. Ta!"

And yes, really go somewhere. If you need a place to stay, I have an extra bedroom (in the Washington DC area) and there are several others here who have extra rooms.

quote:

And yes, really go somewhere. If you need a place to stay, I have an extra bedroom (in the Washington DC area) and there are several others here who have extra rooms.

My H and I are in San Diego and have plenty of room and sunshine.

Gee.. well look at that.. I actually am IN florida!!



Loui

Here in Brown County, Indiana...colder then Heck right now, but a comfy cozy place..with a tourist town to boot!!!!

Heee .... frigid WI/MN. Extra room. A fireplace. Plenty of tea and hot chocolate. A library of ... ecclectic ... reading. And a cat of your choice to snuggle.

I actually think, if you've exposed to most of the family and close friends, right before TG would be a perfect time for PP.

P

Small town Northern Nevada.

Chilly, but oh-so -bneautiful!

You should see the colors on the trees!!

Fly into Reno, and I'll pick you up!

Wow! All such great offers! I may just rent a RV and hit the road! Thank you!!! Yes, there are still plenty of blessings to be thankful for.

The kids can't be convinced to go spend time "over there". Dang...

He is coming for dinner tomorrow and then I think I'll go PP. Although we have been communicating better than ever, he can not get off the keeping the friendship thing and it is beginning to **** me off. I'm sick of hearing what a good person she is and what a good influence she'd be on the kids!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: LifeGoesOn,

Interestingly I was reading the Shirley Glass book last night and it mentioned bridges of madison county (I've never seen the movie) - and how the lady knew that reality could never stack up to the fantasy, and that's why she never left. Guess your H didn't take that interpretation though!
Good influence on the kids - sheesh - now that's some serious halo effect.
Good luck with the PP.

Hi there,
Hope your dinner comes out yummy. Are you cooking a bird today?

If you could please, go back to your recent post and remove the derogatory name your children call OW. One of our rules here at SYMC is that namecalling and disrespect isn't allowed.

So, you're going into PP. Are you ready for no contact? Samples of a PP letter are posted here and hopefully will get you started. When you give it to him, expect him to go to extraordinary measures to test you to see if you really mean it. So, be ready for that - because it can be really hard to shut him out.

Oh, and BTW, I understand how angry it can make you to hear how wonderful OW is. Think of PP though, as something for YOU, and not as a punishment for him. You cannot control him, but you can control you and what you are subjected to. This is a time to work on you and be safe from all his chaos.

Have you thought about what you will tell your children about this? What does that conversation look like?

Big hugs,
GS