Here's my story, as brief as I can make it:

Married 29 years, first marriage for both, no children; I’m the H

* Sex life started decline relatively soon after marriage - we both were more concerned with our own happiness than the spouses, which led to discontent and the resultant lack of sex.
* We both started drinking 3-4 drinks daily; sometimes more
* About 8 years ago sexual activity became virtually non-existent – my selfish choice.
* About 4 years ago W reconnected with high school flame @ reunion
* They began seeing each other on a regular and increasing basis.
* About 3 years ago meetings were weekly. I expressed my concern, and was angry about the situation
* W says at that time there was “nothing going on”
* I finally figured out how selfish I was and made some changes. I resumed sexual activity with W; the meetings with the OM subsided for a while but eventually resumed
* I became resentful again, stopped sexual activity.
* About 18 months ago W and OM began sexual activity
* About 12 months ago W had breast augmentation, lost some weight, stopped drinking
* About 6 months ago W started seeing a therapist, who the OM had previously seen and recommended to W; therapist is into codependency theory (evidently at some point in W’s sessions, the OM needed to see the therapist; the therapist “quit” seeing W to see OM, then when OM was “finished”, resumed seeing W – doesn’t seem ethical)

About 1 month ago, OM’s girlfriend contacted me to ask if I thought there was sexual activity. After girlfriends contact, I confronted W, she admitted to having sex. Hit me like a ton of bricks; realized that angry reaction would not be beneficial and I needed to makes changes if any chance of saving marriage. I believe I have made significant changes – working hard to prevent being judgmental, mean, angry or unkind at any time, always being calm and supportive, even when talking about affair; stopped drinking. We have had many serious and civil conversations about the affair and our future. Sex has resumed – best ever. When we are not dealing with the affair or OM, our relationship seems better than ever

However, when discussion turns to affair / OM, W goes through the “litany”:
* Claims to have no remorse for affair
* Claims to have changed her life and wants to do what makes her happy – which is to continue seeing OM
* Claims to have revealed affair in hopes that I would end the marriage
* Claims she does not want to choose between me and OM; would rather have neither than just one
* Claims our relationship is better because she things that is what it takes for her to see OM
* Claims to want an “open marriage”
* Claims to not care what anyone else thinks
* Claims to be willing to move out
* Vacillates between wanting to remain “just friends” with OM to exploring “what could be”

About 2 weeks ago we started with a couple’s therapist; at last session therapist has indicated to W that there must be NC for W and OM as a prerequisite to repairing our relationship; W now has no interest in continuing with this therapist.

W has seen OM several times since affair revealed; has always notified me in advance; claims as of now it is on a “friends-only, no touch” basis

OM is same age as W, several times divorced, transgendered, no children, has a girlfriend
W says OM claims no interest in being monogamous, track record proves it
W says OM claims she should not look to him for any type of committed relationship, she claims to be ok with that
OM’s girlfriend is fighting hard and nasty to achieve NC between OM and W; W is very resentful – says girlfriend ruined her life

Once in a while there seems to be a crack in the façade and W considers possibility of NC, but she quickly gets depressed at the thought and goes back to the litany. I’ve told her that I won’t control her life; she is free to make her own choices. I’ve told her that I’m sorry for what I’ve done that made her think she needed to have an affair, and that I will work the rest of my life to not repeat it. I’ve told her that I can forgive the past and work to rebuild our relationship. I’ve told her that continuing contact with the OM is not acceptable and hurts me deeply. I’ve told her that as long as we are together (living under the same roof and communicating) I will be kind to her even if she is seeing the OM, but at some point the hurt will make me boil over – and I will leave before I say anything unkind.

As of now I think I’m able to withstand her continuing contact for a while in hopes that the affair will fizzle out like most do. I’m really wrestling with the idea of exposing to family/friends right now. W does not have close connection to anyone, and I don’t think any family/friends would be proactive in the matter. My thought is to continue as is for now, if contact continues/escalates and I get to the boiling point, I’ll expose and leave simultaneously.

It hurts pretty bad - I guess if it didn't, I wouldn't be here. Any thoughts/suggestions welcomed. Thanks for the opportunity to let it out.

ds-

Welcome to SYMC. So sorry about the circumstances that brought you here but glad you found us.

How are you doing on your own healing? Is your drinking an addiction that you are needing to deal with? How solid are you right now? Are you eating well? Getting enough sleep? What sort of support network do you have?

Have you had a chance to download and read Penny's ebook? It's a really good place to start. I'd also recommend going through some previous posts so you can see what has happened to other people in similar situations.

The affair won't fizzle out anytime soon without some sort of change. Something that makes it more uncomfortable. The fact that OM girlfriend is shaking things up may be very helpful although you can't be certain she'll want to remain with the OM for much longer. Your wife seems to want to have both of you in her life. That's going to cause resentment in you which is already surfacing. You don't want to become a source of harm to your marriage.

You mentioned that family/friends might not be too helpful. So why then do you talk about exposing the affair and leaving simultaneously? Is it because exposure might be helpful in ending the affair or because you want to get back at her in some way? If there is any chance that exposure will make the affair uncomfortable, then it's something you should consider doing before you leave.

Many of us here have been through what you are experiences. I'm sure it hurts a great deal. You are free to talk more about that pain and other internal struggles you are dealing with.

Again, take a look at Penny's book if you get a chance.


HoFS

HoFS,

Thanks for responding.

I think I'm doing ok - I'm able to communicate lovingly with my wife; I'm eating ok, sleeping as well as can be expected. I don't have a support network that I can bounce this off without exposing the affair.

I'll check out the ebook - thanks for the suggestion.

I'm thinking of writing a NC letter to the OM - is this appropriate now?

I don't know if exposure will help end it, but that would be my intent. I don't want to embarass her or get revenge, but I suspect she would see it that way, and react very poorly, to the point where I would need to leave immediately to protect myself from being ugly back.

I seem to have repressed the pain of the past; maybe I've come to accept it or maybe it will explode down the road - I just don't know. It's the uncertainty of the future and the prospect that it might be without her that is terrifying and painful at this moment.

Recent development:

This morning before we both left for work W was pretty distressed; went through the litany. We both had contact from OM's girlfriend, since W and OM announced they are planning to meet tomorrow. Girlfriend told W to "stop being his slut, go back to your life". Infuriated W.

We email each other during the day while at work; today no exception. The exchange follows; she's said all these things before, except for "stop sending me messages". Suspect W was talking to OM about dumping girlfriend sometime between my first message and her last.

Not sure if this is a cry for help, a signal of a serious depression episode, just needs time alone, ??. Any suggestions what I should do?

(from me)
Hi,
Just a note to say I'm thinking about you, and I love you.

(from her)
Thanks, thats nice of you. My world is falling apart, but it's nice to
hear from you.

(from me)
I am so sorry that you are hurting so much right now. It's all I can think
about - I think I might even be praying about it. Hang in there - I love
you.

(from her)
As usual...when I get into (OM) about (OM;s girlfriend)...he disconnects.

He's just not that into me.

I'm giving up.

On everything.

I just want to be alone.

Stop sending me messages. It's not helping.

I gave up on you long ago.

Now I'm just alone.

quote:

Originally posted by dsmusic:
I'm thinking of writing a NC letter to the OM - is this appropriate now?

No, the NC needs to come from both of you. You're not the one in contact with the OM. Once your W is ready to end the affair then it would be appropriate that she writes a NC letter and that she let the OM know you are aware of the letter and her intentions.

quote:

I seem to have repressed the pain of the past; maybe I've come to accept it or maybe it will explode down the road - I just don't know. It's the uncertainty of the future and the prospect that it might be without her that is terrifying and painful at this moment.

Of course it is terrifying and painful. Repressing the emotions and memories isn't necessarily the best approach to moving on though. Both of you are going to be on a healing journey no matter what happens to your relationship. Remember, she made the choice about the affair, you didn't force it. However, you certain can look back and examine your contributions to the problems in marriage and think about changes you may need to make in yourself and in setting boudaries.

And the emails during the day...back off the relationship stuff. She is probably correct in that she feels like her world is falling apart. It is real. You could talk about dinner plans, plans for the weekend etc. Just quick and brief interactions for now.

HoFS

I would agree that once the W is ready to end, that she writes a NC letter. I read the ebook, which suggests that the BS writes a NC letter,at least as I read it, with the purpose creating conflict in the affair relationship - to me that indicates the affair is ongoing, not that the WS is ready to end.

I know that she made the choice about the affair, regardless of what she says. I also know that my behavior made her feel she needed to make that choice, and I am making and will continue to make changes so that I don't repeat that behaviour.

Perhaps you can expand on "setting boundaries".

I'll give her some space.

Thanks.

Hi there, dsmusic! HoFS is giving you good advice about the direct interactions with your wife, so I would like to focus on the aspects of this that have to do with you. So...... how much are you drinking right now? How are you examining your life? Have you thought about going to AA (I'd really really really encourage it...)?

You said you've woken up and made some changes, slipped, and then woke up again. Where are you in that awakening?

Hello JustJ,

Thanks for asking about me. For the past 2 months I have cut back the drinking to perhaps 1 or 2 drinks a week - compared to 3 or 4 a day. I intend to keep it that way.

I've come to realize that I have been very selfish, allowing any little annoyance - whether from the W, or other sources (I own a moderate size manufacturing business - plenty of annoyance there!)to justify withdrawing, and not putting constructive effort into our relationship. I'm working on being kind and responsive to her even when I'm annoyed, especially when the OM comes up. I've found it's easier than I thought and makes me feel better.

She did agree to go to therapy yesterday. We made some progress; she agreed to go to the next session; she seemed to soften just a bit on the idea of giving up the OM. I think she's still planning to see him today - we'll see where we are after that.

quote:

I'm working on being kind and responsive to her even when I'm annoyed, especially when the OM comes up

quote:

I’ve told her that as long as we are together (living under the same roof and communicating) I will be kind to her even if she is seeing the OM

Hi there DS. I'm sorry for the situation you are in.
I'm just curious as to the above two quotes, in terms of what boundaries you've set regarding the above?
Kind and responsive is excellent - being the friend she can cry to when OM disconnects or won't dump his girlfriend or shows he's 'not that into her'.... I'm not so sure about. That might be taking it too far and implying that you are ok putting up with that.
Ditto with agreeing to be kind to her while she's seeing OM. Are there any limits/boundaries around this 'seeing' or is it sort of a matter of "kick me until I can't take it anymore"? On the one hand imposing limits might result in less honesty. On the other hand I'm not sure the doormat approach will win a person over. At the moment I'm just wondering where you stand on this continuum.
Oh one more question. Given she is having the affair - is there a reason that the option being considered is for you to leave, rather than asking her to?

Hello mags,

Thanks for the questions. I think I'm being very clear that continued contact with the OM is not acceptable to me. I just make that simple statement in as calm and kind a manner as I can, with no judgement of her actions or reasoning. I don't approve and she knows it - I'm voicing my disapproval in a way that I think is civil.

I'm not agreeing to any contact - limits/boundries or not. I'm also not telling her what to do or feel; just what my feelings are. I've told her that if she continues any contact, at some point I will lose my ability to be civil, and I will leave at that time instead of being uncivil.

I've certainly thought about asking her to leave. My thought is that being civil and removing myself from the situation has a better chance for recovery in the long term than asking her to leave; any feedback on either approach would be very welcome.

We get along fine for a day or two, then she pines for him; she calls or sees him. Then she bounces around from threatinging to leave, to wanting an "open marriage", to having neither of us, wanting to be "just friends" and just as of this morning trying to end it with him. Emotions run the gamut, and change along with which route she'll take on a minute by minute basis. I think she is getting severely depressed from withdrawl, and she seems to know it. Unfortunately she's still using the quick fix.

Hi DS

I'll wait for somebody more knowledgeable to talk about that stuff. From my view it seems like you've stated your boundaries but there are no clear consequences to her. She knows you don't like it, but will try to put up with it.

I'd have thought that getting her to leave would present more upheaval to her life, and hence make her more likely to see exactly what she is messing up. I'd say the harder you make it for her to act on these impulses she's feeling, the better - and having to leave your home is harder than getting to stay there. But again, I suppose if this drove her into the arms of the OM it might be unhelpful. Again, I'll leave it to the people who know to advise on that.

The quick fix is very addictive. That she does contemplate ending it with him despite you not having really forced that issue might be a good sign. I'm not sure though, that the time for decisive action is to wait until you are so through with the marriage that there is little chance of reconciliation even if she did want to. Maybe it would be preferable to take action before that point?

Hi mags,

Thanks again for the thoughts.

I should clarify that by leaving, I did not mean ending the marriage; I meant leaving the home and having no contact. It's hard to say if having her leave the home will drive her closer to the OM.

Yesterday was a particularly tough day. Evidently she was planning to see him "one last time", but he told her that he did not want any contact until she was divorced and if she showed up he would call the police. She was devastated, took it out on me. I managed to hang in but it was tough - the glimmer of hope that the affair might be starting to fizzle out, leading the way to allowing us to rebuild keeps me going.

The exposure of the affair has obviously caused a lot of grief for both of them. Seems to have cooled of the OM somewhat, and I sense that even through the fog she is starting to understand all the implications of trying to continue. Seems to me that if this process is moving along on its own that decisive action from me might not be the best thing - but I'd like to get some advice on this.

I'm hoping someone else will post here soon.
DSM - how long do you think this process has been moving along on it's own, in a positive direction, for?

I think the process has been moving overall in a positive direction since the exposure, but setbacks come with the progress. Monday 4-27 was a rough day, but yesterday (Tues 4-28)seemed pretty positive. First day with no mention of OM to me; we met for lunch, and had an enjoyable evening. There's a little nagging suspicion in the back of my head, worrying that her positive attitude might be from reconnecting with the OM in secret. Hope not.

Wednesday afternoon (4-29) was a different story. As I suspected, she took an afternoon off work and went to see the OM. She claims he would not let her into the house, told her that they couldn't continue the affair if she was still married, gave her some things back and sent her on her way. When I got home she told me about it, and then thrashed me pretty good for 2 hours. I finally said I needed to go cool, and that she needed to cool down as well, so I left. She called about an hour later to apologize; I came home and things we were cordial. She seemed a little frightened at the prospect of being alone. She knows the OM is only after a "friends with benefits" arrangements, and apparently now only if I'm out of the picture - but I know that condition can change.

She says she doesn't know if she can fall in love with me again. I told her I don't know either, but that as long as she is in contact with the OM it isn't going to happen.

I don't know if the OM's definition of not continuing the affair - whether it means no contact or just no sex. She still has the cell phone he gave her (his girlfriend told me that was one of his courting techniques). She has left it out where I can see it on a couple occasions; I don't know if this was accidental or intentional, and if it was intentional what the real motivation was. I've thought about taking it or disabling it, but there are still other ways she communicates with him. However, that cell phone in and of itself is a tangible connection to him. Any suggestions on what I might do about that?

We've got another marital counseling session today, which she has agreed to go to as of now.

The OM wants only friends with benefits but turns her down when she comes over because she is still married?? Why would her being married bother him if all he wants is emotionless sex from her??? This doesn't smell right.

How are things going ds?
Sounds like she's pretty deep in the fog still.

How come you let her thrash you for 2 hours?

I'm glad she agreed to the counselling session. How are you feeling? Eating? Sleeping?

They enjoyed their emotions when they were in secret - which were of course only the pleasant and pleasurable ones. Now that the affair is exposed, and there is conflict from partners to deal with, the OM supposedly would rather not continue the affair then deal with the unpleasant emotions. His long string of partners seems to indicate that pattern of behavior. They have not seen each other for 4 days now, don't know about electronic contact.

I thought letting her vent for a while would be cathartic for her - and if I handled it well, perhaps a small positive seed would be planted. Our counseling session Friday went fairly well and the weekend was pleasant.

I'm eating fine, sleeping so-so, and still feeling apprehensive.

How are you going now ds?

When you say you don't know about electronic contact - presumably this means you don't have full transparency over your wife's email accounts etc.? Would she be willing to give it?

Re: the thrashing you... I see your point. Although I can't help wondering whether it also falls into the category of enabling. In that effectively she gets to call ALL the shots, abuse YOU when her OM messes with her, use YOU as the punching bag for her bad decisions - etc. etc. I can't help wondering whether it helps her escape the consequences of what she does. But on the other hand, I guess it does put you on this inside of her emotions. I wish one of the experienced guys would weigh in with an opinion here.... hint hint guys....

How has your week been?

The roller coaster ride continues. Some days she makes no mention of the OM, and is very nice. Other days the withdrawal hits, and she starts negotiating for a way to have him in the picture, using a variety of reasons. She has not seen him in 10 days, but I'm almost certain there has been electronic contact.

At our therapy session Friday, I made a point to say that it seems while I have admitted to my mistakes, asked forgiveness, made changes to correct the mistakes, and have forgiven my wife's mistakes, she has done the opposite - not admitting that the affair was a mistake which of course means not needing to ask for forgiveness or correcting the behavior, and refusing to forgive me. The therapist concurred, then told my wife it is her option and right to be ambivalent about what direction she wants to go right now (I agree with that). However, the therapist also made it pretty clear to her that if she chose to continue the affair it would mean the end of the marriage.

Saturday we had a pretty good day. Sunday(yesterday) morning however, she was pining for him - said that in spite of what I thought about Saturday, she was sad because she was expecting to hear from the OM on Saturday but didn't - probably because he was with his girlfriend. I don't buy that she was sad on Saturday - she isn't that good at hiding her feelings. But something must have set her off yesterday morning, and she started the negotiations again. A negotiation session usually goes pretty long; I cut this one off pretty quick and said there will never be any negotiation on this matter.

I've often thought that the reason she continues to thrash me about the past, and use it as justification to continue the affair. As you mentioned Mags, perhaps it is because she fears what will be the consequences if she takes responsibility for how hideous her behavior has been toward me. For some reason she needs to be the "winner".

I think we're making progress but it sure is tough. The setbacks hit pretty hard.