I have not found any discussion forums on any sites that have dealt with my particular situation. My husband is certain that it is not unique at all but because I have not found anyone else posting a similar experience, I have to believe differently. I have been married for 13 years (first marriage for both of us) and found out that for the past year and a half my husband has been living the life of a swinger. Yes, usually this is a decision that a couple makes together, but he knew this was not something I was interested in and it was something he very much wanted to experience. So he took a chance and it paid off for him in many respects. He got to have all these sexual experiences that he wanted, and I did not find out until it was pretty much "out of his system". We are seeing a counselor now and trying to determine if there is a marriage worth saving. My husband says he never wanted a romantic relationship with anyone else and worked very hard for that not to develop. He says he loves only me and wants to grow old together and (of course) wishes that I had never found out. I know he developed a friendship with a guy and they would get together just the 2 of them for sex or make it a 3 or 4-some with women. I am so disgusted by the thought of these encounters. Is there anyone else out there whose partner was a swinger and they were not?

Welcome to SYMC, and sorry for what has brought you here.
I'll wait for some more experienced folk to reply with their answers as I've not been involved in a situation like that. My personal opinion is that calling it 'swinging' sounds like him trying to give it a legitimacy that it doesn't have, as swinging by my definition involves the participation and agreement of both members of the couple. Done on the sly it's more like plain old infidelity.
But that's just opinion so feel free to ignore it.
I'm so sorry you are having to deal with the thoughts of those encounters - that would certainly be horrible.
So your husband still wishes he hadn't been found out, rather than wishing he hadn't deceived you?
Do you have any kids or anything?

More importantly - how are you doing - are you sleeping/eating/drinking ok?

I tend to agree with Mags, applying the "swinging" label is just another way to make infidelity not sound like what it is...cheating. And it occurs to me that making it about something that he "really wanted to experience" but he knew you wouldn't want to be a part or would be upset if he told you...well that is first of all a load of crapola and second of all a way to say that it circles around to you not being willing to let him or help him achieve expereinces that make him happy.

Maybe it is my own experiences coloring this situation...but it sounds to me like if he isn't already putting this on you and making it your fault he is certainly working up to that.

I don't blame you for being disgusted or upset or angry or any other emotions that are rioting through you right now. We've all been there.

I to think it is strange that he is so remorseful, but he more wishes that you hadn't found out instead of wishing it hadn't happened. That sounds more like he is not upset that he did it, but more that he got caught.

Sorry for the rambling...it is good that he has agreed to counseling, but I think you might need to do individual counseling in addition to marriage counseling. He has had plenty of time to work this out and process it, and make up lots of reasons why it is okay. You on the other hand are just starting. I think you need individual therapy to help you along at your own pace...cause he will probably start pushing you to "get over it" faster than you are ready...if I was just guessing.

Do take good care of yourself. Make sure and get enough to eat and drink...and try to rest as much as you can. This is a huge emotional toll and you will need all your strength.

Hi,
Sorry this happened to you - it must be very traumatic to learn that you were betrayed. Swinging is usually an open relationship where both partners agree with honesty that they will see or be with other people. That's not what happened here. This was "I'm going to pretend with you that we have an exclusive sexual arrangement, but that's not really what I'm doing behind your back." That's lies and betrayal...because you were not in the loop on his decision. And it's very dangerous behavior from a health standpoint...for him and you.

If I were you, I'd be making a doctor's appointment right away to get tested for sexually transmitted diseases. Do this even if he swears he took precautions. This might not be true (and very likely isn't), but even so, there are diseases that can't be prevented with condoms. And I would abstain from any sexual contact with your H until all this checks out.

Sexual addiction looks a lot like "swinging." You might check out this web page: Recovery Nation There is page for partners of sexual addicts and you might want to peruse around the site and read up on this. Perhaps you'll find your H exhibits many of the signs of someone who acts out sexually.

A friend of mine tells me that her H's escapades into similar things - all hidden from her for many years - stole her reality. Her married life was built on pretend. Addicts like that because it keeps intimacy away...and they self-soothe their fears with sexual encounters.

That pattern doesn't go away with a few counseling sessions. Think of the alcoholic trying to kick it without going through a 12-step or other structured program. He's going to need to go deep on this one, and I would encourage you to accept nothing but whole effort from him on this. He'll likely fight you over the hard stuff.

I'm really sorry this is going on in your life. It must be a shock. But try and remember you didn't cause this or do anything to push him there. No matter if it's sexual addiction or not, it really is all about him.
GS

I tend to agree with everyone here as well.
I have known a few couples who both clearly labeled themselves as swingers. It definitely was an open agreement by both partners..and in every case, each partner was told of any potential times there would be someone else involved and both partners were present whenever it occurred. Also, there is an understanding set down about how, when, where, with whom before there was even anyone involved...An agreement between both partners with boundaries and rules.

So.. yes, I think what you are describing is not anything but your H using the label of swinger in order to participate in these events... also I would tend to believe that in doing things the way he did he was,in some incomprehensible manner, trying to protect his interests concerning your marriage. By telling these other women that you have an open marriage and that this is something you agreed to, in his mind it more than likely lessened the chance that any one of these liasons could turn into something more.

I agree with GS in that you should get tested immediately and I would also check out the recoverynation site.

and I also find the 'wishes I never found out' something to delve into. That statement does not give me any warm fuzzies about contriteness or remorse on your H's part. It sounds more of disappointment and guilt.

Loui

Wow, I'm overwhelmed with everyone's care and concern. I wish I had thought to do this sooner. It's been nearly 2 months since I found out and confronted my H. I have been seeing a counselor on my own as well as marriage counseling. I look back now and can't believe that I have come through the past 2 months without a breakdown. I was laid off a few months ago, and while I was unemployed I found out about his "affairs" or whatever you want to call them. I have finally found a job and gone back to work full time, which is great for my mental health. I am still not sleeping well but I have found that I sleep better when I am not sleeping in the same bed as my H. I never really lost my appetite or stopped caring about myself or my appearance, which I am grateful for after reading some other people's posts. The numbness and foggy feelings have finally worn off. I did share my knowledge of my H's actions with 2 friends who don't really know him. Having them to talk to really helped me get through this.

You all made really good points, about "swinging" versus "infidelity", his lack of remorse about doing it, the blame game, and the potential disease aspect. We have both been tested--he says it's been 6 months since his last encounter and I have no evidence to refute that. Thankfully everything was negative. I will definitely check out the Recovery Nation site. Just last week my H said something that gave me some hope for our marriage. He said that he had failed me and was very sorry for that. To me that sounds like the beginnings of thoughts that he might actually realize that he is responsible for his actions. Well, we're off to marriage couseling. Thank you all for your kindness and concern.

Hi-


Wow - 2 months is a long time especially with the job situation. Glad you found us! How did you find us?

I'd watch what one's partner does over time; what's said should match up pretty darn well.

As things progress, the betrayed spouse wants to be aware and gaurd against being the main threat to the marriage. It's hard to do. I found better self care and a good deal of study on compasion help a lot.

All the best to you and yours,
SB

I'm going to take a somewhat different approach, though I agree that calling this "swinging" is an inaccurate label, and that doing this stuff in secret is terribly harmful.

Instead, I'm going to focus on something a little deeper. See, I wonder what made him consider and execute a plan to go outside your marriage specifically for intense sexual experiences.

I'm guessing, here, that it has to do with his sexual confidence. I'm wondering if it's because he was way too vulnerable and open to be able to be so utterly sexually intimate with you -- something that can be one heck of a high, but can also be terrifying when you're risking the entirety of your marriage by stepping out of the box and saying.... (Minors, y'all look the other way, here.)

"No really. I want to DO you. I want you to DO me. I want to f--- you until we are both screaming in ecstasy, losing our minds, and having the most profound connection two people can have and remain on this planet."

Takes a lot of guts, that. And it's part of the marital crucible. No fair of him to run away from it because he couldn't look you in the eye and take that leap. Definitely not.

But still.

Now you know.

Now you know that he -can- take that leap. That he has.

You've discovered that about him.

Heck of a powerful energy that's now out in the open. It will take a lot of grown-up solidity to harness it.

And it's worth it.

quote:

I know he developed a friendship with a guy and they would get together just the 2 of them for sex or make it a 3 or 4-some with women.

I almost missed this. Just the two of them for sex....are you refering to same-sex male on male? I ask because it does change the dynamic to this situation.

quote:

I ask because it does change the dynamic to this situation.

Heh. That's interesting that you should say that, Eviser8d. I noticed it the first time and it didn't change the dynamic for me at all.

Heh, I bet your "guess" is spot on J. Thinking back on my wife and I's...errrrr...."experimentation" each step into the journey was pretty eye opening. in a year we learned more about eachother's desires than we had in the previous 5 years. And yes, revealing some of it was terrifying....and real intimacy blossomed from that. Then it all went bad.

oh and SW, while you may not see your husbands exact situation on a infidelity or marriage board very often, it's not unique. There exists an entire underworld full of people who lives revolve around this very type of experience.

You (and better yet - he) should look in on recovery nation. It's usually not something one can "work out of their system". It's more of a cycle and likely to revisit him.

quote:

I'm wondering if it's because he was way too vulnerable and open to be able to be so utterly sexually intimate with you -- something that can be one heck of a high, but can also be terrifying when you're risking the entirety of your marriage by stepping out of the box and saying.... (Minors, y'all look the other way, here.)

That's what addiction is all about, though .... and desperate need to escape from real intimacy - with self first and then with anyone who gets close. His insistence that he didn't want any emotional attachments to these women he used is, I'm sure, very accurate and very telling.

quote:

Heck of a powerful energy that's now out in the open. It will take a lot of grown-up solidity to harness it.

And it's worth it.

It's only "harnassable" when both partners are healthy -- or willing to get to healthy. Until then it's traumatic and destructive.

I really hope you do check out Recovery Nation, swingerswife, Jon has fantastic resources for partners - far superior to what I've seen anywhere else (other than here of course )

hugs to you

P

MMmm. Yes, could be addiction. Could also be the marital crucible getting hot. From this distance, I'm not sure we can tell the difference. Either way, I agree that Recovery Nation is a good resource.

There's nothing that says the two are mutually exclusive.

Yup, I was just thinking that.

Soooo ..... a marital crucible can be many things, addiction being just one of them.

Addiction in a marriage is most certainly a crucible - it can't be anything other than that (one definition is: A severe test, as of patience or belief; a trial.)

In the alchemical sense a crucible was part of the equipment of transforming or transmuting a base substance into something of value (lead to gold - or in the metaphysical sense our evolution of spirit).

In a marital sense, then, the trials and challenges we encounter are the vessel - or the container - for our personal growth, which in turn sets the stage for marital growth. It still takes two partners doing the work in order for the marriage to be saved ... or safe for that matter.

An unrecovered and non healing addict will offer many many opportunities for lessons and growth - a full banquet of lessons in fact. But unless he does the work of healing there is no possibility of intimacy or safety. (Which is another lesson in itself.)

P

Any marital crucible, no matter what the deadlock issues are, revolves around the incredibly difficult journey of personal growth and healing. And any time a spouse refuses to do the growing, the marital crucible intensifies and becomes even more stressful.

Perhaps it's an addiction fueling it, perhaps it's FOO stuff. Perhaps it's all kinds of things. It's a profoundly difficult and frightening passage every single time we enter it, no matter what the cause.

I wouldn't say that the people-growing machine of marriage is ever safe or easy. That's why intimacy needs to be self-validating before it's anything else.

Each time, the individual choice is either to grow, or to refuse to grow and to have the whole thing get worse. The results of the marriage are directly and profoundly tied to the decisions each spouse makes.

I find it to be an amazing system. Yes, things fly apart sometimes. And many times they do not. The moment of personal transformation that leads to growth is still almost entirely a mystery to me, even having been through it a few times myself.

Mmmm hmmmm ... No argument here - I'm all about the personal transformation space created by every traumatic event. And .... I suspect it may just be a bit too advanced for someone just finding out.