This is what my poor old girl has to endure! Bless her heart, she is the best dog in the world. Kids flop on her, pull her ears and poke at her and she just gives them a big sigh and then a lick and lets them do as they please...

Hi all - Well, looks like it's another teary awful day. Got a phone message from H this morning. He wants to go to therapist, as I mentioned before, to "start communicating." And, I left him some bills on the counter since he was stopping by to walk the dog. Says that we need to sit down and discuss finances. Up to this point, he's been depositing money into our acct and expecting bills to be paid. I'm now separating all possible accts - cell phone bill, car payments etc. The lease on the car that he's driving is up next month, and he will have to deal with that alone. Of course, there are are many household expenses that can't be split right now and I still need to get as much $ from him as possible. But I'm doing my best. Have a therapy session tonight and will go over these things with my therapist. Still not sure about meeting with him in her office. She says to ask him if he has anything new to say. That'a about it for now.

Hey Debanne..

I've been MIA with lots of personal stuff, but just wanted to let you know I'm reading your stuff too..

I realize a few of these things seem intuitively wrong.. but the truth is in this situation, what you intuitively feel IS usually not the easier or best path.

If you search your feelings about NC and letting your H come into the house.. may I ask you this: Is part of your feeling about that due to your own insecurity and fears of losing him completely? You know that deep down fear of out of sight out of mind thing?

I have found that most people if they dig down deep enough find that is the real reason they don't want to have complete NC...and 99% of the people who didn't accept it at first realized later on what a mistake it was not to trust it.

You teach in a school.. I would be willing to bet that somewhere, somehow you could find a student, or a parent with friends nearby that have kids between the age of 12 & 16 that would be ecstatic to come and walk, feed & spend time with your dog for a fraction of what dogsitters cost.

its scary and upsetting to realize that your whole world is turned topsy turvy.. but you must really think about this...even the smallest amount of contact gives him an addiction fill... this IS like giving up an addiction. All the chemicals work the same, all the feelings he has work the same way. Consider very carefully the path he had to take while going to AA and the road you need to travel to not enable him to get any fix..no matter how slight or small.

oh and what GS said.. I second that too:

quote:

It's not my fault that my husband chose to leave our marriage

oh btw.. many moons ago I worked at the Albert Einstein campus.. you anywhere near there?

oh and Sandy.. that pic... my mother made my kids shimmery dress up skirts from that same material..like 15 yrs ago. Amazing something so tacky doesn't die.

Loui

Hi - Yes, of course some of my hesitation is because I am afraid of NC. Remember - this is all very, very new. Just 3 weeks. And there has been very little contact since the beginning. He emails and calls with things that seem like business, but are pretty unnecessary. For instance, he wrote an email this morning to tell me that he can't walk the dog on March 16!

As far as that goes, I may be getting ready for NC with the exception of the dog walking. I don't live anywhere near where I work. I live in an area that is pretty rural - and my closest friends live 15-20 minutes away. One of them said that she would do it but it's jus

Hi - Yes, of course some of my hesitation is because I am afraid of NC. Remember - this is all very, very new. Just 3 weeks. And there has been very little contact since the beginning. He emails and calls with things that seem like business, but are pretty unnecessary. For instance, he wrote an email this morning to tell me that he can't walk the dog on March 16!

As far as that goes, I may be getting ready for NC with the exception of the dog walking. I don't live anywhere near where I work. I live in an area that is pretty rural - and my closest friends live 15-20 minutes away. One of them said that she would do it but it's just too far. The avg. cost for a dog walk is $20. So, that would be anywhere between $400-$500 a month. Just can't do it. I will be off for 2 weeks over spring break and will not allow him to come for that period of time. Maybe during my break I can figure out another arrangement. Luckily, in the summertime, I bring the dog to work with me. But meanwhile, I can cut off all contact with me, but not with the house. IS this better than nothing?

debanne,

I'm really sorry about the situation you find yourself in now. I haven't read all of your posts but I'm wondering if you've exposed the affair to friends, family, minister, etc.? I hadn't seen that in anything that I had read so far. Affairs typically run into problems once the veil of secrecy has been lifted.

Do you have support from family and friends?

HoFS

Well the way things went, I spoke to our mutual friends, and was able to tell them my viewpoint before he did. But, since the affair didn't remain a secret for long, there wasn't a lot of time to expose. I caught him on a Friday and on Sunday he started telling his AA friends and others an inaccurate picture of our marriage. He says that, although he's not proud of the fact that there is another woman, he's been unhappy in our marriage for years etc. etc. etc.
He has very little family and he's not close with them, so exposing to them won't really make a difference. I guess what I'm saying though, is that the affair was out of the closet pretty quickly.

Does your H have a sponsor in AA still? Have you spoken to him/her? I think if you haven't you should.. just to let him/her know the situation. As well as his boss/associates at work and any family he does keep in touch with even if you are not close, you never know how family will react, all your friends and church members.

Exposing him (as uncomfortable as that might be).. removes the secrecy and/or one sidedness of what is being said about your marriage in general and leaves it in everyone's mind with no doubt as to how you feel.

debanne, just so you know..pretty much everyone who comes to symc thinks their situation is different or has extenuating circumstances.. and they do to a certain degree. What remains the same always is a few things.

The longer the BS is exposed to the chaotic and unreasonably selfish behavior of the WS the harder it is to maintain the love you feel for him. Part of PP/NC is to protect those feelings in YOU!

WS's will ALWAYS behave in a self serving, blinded manner. And its confusing to the BS who knew this wonderful person and cannot understand where they disappeared to.

If you as the BS let the WS have any kind of contact, minimal at all.. if there is still doubt or guilt or attachments to you still in place (which in yours and his case I do believe there is)... he will continue to 'fence sit'.. and you will be sucked into the neverending currents he chooses to wash over you.

NC/PP puts you in control of your life. It gives you some manner of peace in a world that has been shaken to its core.

I will also give you a little hint about the dog and that situation... if at all possible.. see if there are any neighborhood kids that live on your block...or contact the local High School/ middle school and ask if there is a bulletin board that you can post that you need a dog walker. If you have a local community center or church nearby ask there too... or if you have a local neighborhood paper (our neighborhood had one and you could advertise for babysitters, dog walkers, music teachers, etc. in it), put an ad in it.

As for the adoption.. I wish I had some words of wisdom to give you...hugs is about all I can offer to you on that one.
And depending on this situation and how it plays out.. well you may have to put it aside, which after all that time and hard work I know would just be horrid for you.

Loui

Debanne, would it be worth re-researching adoption but from the single parent angle? Just in case things have changed since you first researched it - are there other countries where the single parent thing would be permitted?

quote:

debanne, just so you know..pretty much everyone who comes to symc thinks their situation is different or has extenuating circumstances..

My situation WAS different. I just KNEW it was. I live in the middle of nowhere. There is no one to help me, I can't handle 8 acres and a home and animals and a little girl who now only sees her dad once a week for a few hours. I just can't do it. But the sad realization I came to was, no it wasn't different. My husband left me for another woman. Just like many others here. Me, my child, our family, our friends, our pets all suffered from his bad decision. There was nothing different at all.

We were able to come up with a plan for NC and PP. It wasn't hard to figure it out. The hardest thing was for me to accept what I needed to do. I will to this day, back what is suggested here. This is an addiction, it needs to be treated as such and I will recommend this method to anyone that ever needs it.

What happened instead, while I was insisting I couldn't do it, is that I got up and did it. People started coming out of the woodwork to HELP me with anything I needed. They have once again. I thought for sure this time, they would all disappear, but they are all back and surrounding DD8 and I.

I know in my heart that you will find this to be true for you as well.

Lets look at where you are. You have suffered a great trauma, you are in shock, you are in pain, you are CONFUSED as heck over what has happened. You are concerned about the adoption issue, you are worried about your pets and you are wondering where the he!! your husband went and who is this person inhabiting his body right now.

It's the worst thing to go through Debanne. We all know, one way or the other.

I can only tell you from my experience that you will only begin to regain your strength once you stop as Louie said being exposed to the chaotic and unreasonably selfish behavior of the WS

I saw my therapist tonight and we decided on a game plan. I will visit her once with him and ask him to help me with the adoption papers. I will also let him know, at that time, that I will be greatly limiting contact with him. I also will not need him to take care of the dog during the last 2 weeks of March (my spring break.) That will give me time to come up with some possible alternate plan for pet care. After we go through the reapplication process for the adoption (hopefully not longer than early April) I will go into PP mode. In the meantime, I will get as close to it as possible without risking his changing his mind about helping me out. He's so delusional right now that whatever steps I take will be a shock to his system. And I already feel better not checking his emails anymore. So, distancing myself even further will be very helpful. Thanks again for all of your support and advice. I hear it loud and clear, and am trying to do the best that I can considering the extenuating circumstances. I understand that people will be around to help me out, but no one else can help me with renewing the adoption application, and I'm not prepared to give up on ever having a child in my life.

and you are doing great, given the circumstances.

I just hope that you are prepared if he declines regarding the adoption. I know that could very much devastate you. Just realize that you are not dealing with someone who is rational in any way.

You are in my prayers

I don't think that he will decline, mostly because he is still on my medical insurance, and I am going to present it almost like a business deal. Also, we will have the discussion in my therapists office and he may be less inclined to say no in that environment. On top of that, he really needs to see himself as a totally evolved, great guy. He has a lot invested in that. So, we'll just have to see.

By the way, I'd love your opinions regarding the medical insurance. I will tell him that I'm willing to keep him on it for a bit - maybe until the summer. That may be enough to convince him to help me with the adoption. But after that time, should I simply drop him? I know that I need to go into PP, but medical insurance is a very serious matter and I'm not sure how to handle it. At this point, I'm insisiting that he pay me for the premium. Any thoughts?

quote:

On top of that, he really needs to see himself as a totally evolved, great guy. He has a lot invested in that.

Yea, I've had to deal with one of those as well

Typically you would really only change your insurance if you were getting a divorce. I know there is a court order for my WS to maintain all insurances on me, for now. Then after the divorce is final, I will either have to COBRA out for awhile (which I can't afford) or go without insurance (which I can't afford) or find a job around here that offers insurance (good luck with that) so basically, I'm screwed.

I would think that for now, I would still have him pay the premium. Lets see where this leads.

And speaking of that...what are you looking for out of this debanne? Are you done, or would you like to work towards recovery and reconciliation etc?

At this point, I still want to work towards recovery. It's only been a month since I found out, and 3 weeks since my H left home. As you know, there has been communication via email and, after finding out that he was talking about private aspects of our marriage to people and very inaccurately at that, I sent him a very powerful email asking him why he was so desperate for approval and justification. I asked him why he felt the need to reduce our 16 years together to a sad mistake. And I questioned the person that I thought he was - a man of integrity and principles who had worked hard at growth. Wow - that got a strong response. Several emails and 2 long email messages crying about how he's hurt me and how poorly he's behaved. Then, yesterday I wrote to him and was pretty strong about beginning to split up the bills/responsibilities etc. I received a three page letter from him last night, again taking responsibility for his poor behavior and again rehashing all that went wrong in our marriage. But he never mentioned the infidelity.

The OW lives in NYC and we live about an hour north. I know that she is up here this weekend with him. He has been staying at a friend's house, but this weekend is housesitting and doing petcare for a family who have a large, beautiful home. And he brought her there for the weekend. This is so outrageous. How dare he bring her to the area where I live. And, how juvenile to bring her to that house - it reminds me of when I was 16 and babysitting. I would sometimes sneak my boyfriend in after the kids fell asleep. He normally spends the weekends with her in the city, but since he was obligated to be up here this weekend, he obviously couldn't stand to be without his fix.

I am planning to go to the therapist with him this week and start to put the PP into motion. I'm off from work for the following 2 weeks, so he has not reason to be here at all during that time. I will try to arrange for affordable pet care if I can. I think I may be able to get a friend or two to help out, so that I only need to get a pet sitter 2-3 times a week instead of 5, which really isn't doable for me.

But, still, If he wanted to, I would work on our relationship and try to heal it. It doesn't seem that he's anywhere near that place now.

Hi debanne
Just wondering what activities you've planned for your time off? I think not obsessing and maintaining PP can be harder with time on your hands, so I'm hoping you've planned a packed schedule of rejuvenating outings/activities for your break!

quote:

But he never mentioned the infidelity.

Of course not. And he won't.

quote:

I will try to arrange for affordable pet care if I can. I think I may be able to get a friend or two to help out, so that I only need to get a pet sitter 2-3 times a week instead of 5, which really isn't doable for me.

Good girl!!!!

quote:

It doesn't seem that he's anywhere near that place now.

No he isn't, but it doesn't mean he won't be at some point...

quote:

And, how juvenile to bring her to that house

Uh huh...amazing isn't it...I heard a rumor about my WS and his AP and what was said about what they were doing...made me absolutely sick to my stomach...

It's hard to think about...that's how come you need to do something for yourself on your time off...Keep busy. Repaint, rearrange. I did that and it was awesome how good it felt to make things different. Very therapeutic.

My view on contact at this time is focused more on your emotional state than on your husband's. We know pretty much were your husband's brain is (in a state of significant chemical induced incoherence). You, on the other hand, have a much wider variety of possibilities. So let's talk about you.

Are you grounded? That means that even when you're hurting, you're still connected to the things that are most important to you.

Are you compassionate? That means that even when you're hurting, your rock-solid desire is your desire for happiness (serenity, peace, tranquility, joy, a serious case of the giggles, whatever) for everyone in the situation.

Are you able to interact without hitting your cure hurts (unlovable, inadequate, powerless, disregarded, disrespected, guilty) so hard that you experience the secondary emotions of anger, resentment, frustration, etc.?

Are you able, if you do become frustrated/angry/resentful/whatever to self-soothe and return to a grounded state fairly quickly?

If you can do these things, and if you can remain connected to "this is what I want, and this is what I will not tolerate," then you're probably pretty safe to be around your husband.

I note all this because Protection Phase IS about protection. Protection of you, certainly, but not just you. Also protecting your husband, and protecting your marriage. People who have been through what you're going through are prone to terribly destructive acts. Most of us lash out with words rather than fists, but we still do damage that way.

So I applaud your therapist's encouragement to get you separated as fast as possible. It gives you the opportunity to focus your energy, build a life of peace (choose peace over chaos!), and make you able to deal with your husband, when you have to, with active engagement and without smacking him. That's a very, very good thing.

Only you can decide when or if you actually need to be in Protection Phase. But! Use the time you have to yourself very wisely whether you're in PP or not. Some examples:

- Go for a long walk. Snow, sun, whatever you have today, spend some time out in it.
- Buy yourself flowers.
- Take a hot bath.
- Clean out your closets (okay, it's fun for me...)
- Make your bedroom your sanctuary. Get rid of everything that makes you unhappy and then add only things you love.
- Get your hair done in a fabulous new style.
- Paint your nails. And your toenails.
- Find a wonderful new place to go. Maybe a park or a place on the water.
- Go to a concert. High schools have free ones all the time, as I'm sure you know!
- Get in touch with (female, preferably long-married) friends and do something fun.
- Pay forward things that you have benefit ted from. Do some volunteer work. Compliment someone. Feed an expired parking meter.

I do understand the the PP is to protect me from pain. He emails and leaves voicemail messages almost every day - mostly about his remorse or about household things, but each time I hear his voice, it kills a bit more of me inside.

I wrote him a long response to his letter. Very honest - no anger. I actually don't need PP to avoid saying or doing horrible things. I haven't yet and don't think that I will. I've handled this with grace and integrity, unlike him.

I want the PP to protect myself from hurt and to show him what life is without being able to have daily contact with me.

I don't plan to use an intermediary - I'm not going to be that hardcore about it. If we need to communicate on occasion about finances or our animals, I think that's OK, and my therapist agrees. As long as it stay about business. And, like a child, he will still be able to come and pick up the dog and take him for a walk in a park. I'd rather not be there when he does that, so I have to figure out how that's going to work. I may have to trust that he'll just come in once a week or once every two and pick up the dog. And I may leave a list once a month for him to do heavy lifting kind of things for me. This is still up in the air. I think that for the two weeks of my spring break there will be no visits, no messages, no contact. During that time, I will try to figure out, with my therapist, how to proceed. I will try hard not to have him come at all during the day to walk Theo (our dog) as long as I can get friends to do it a few times a week and pay a petsitter for only twice a week. I can at least make those arrangements for a while after the break is over - just have to take it a bit at a time and see how things develop.

Right now, it's clear that he's completely immersed in his new relationship. I'm not expecting miracles or for him to return when I cut him off. But I still have hope that one day he will become the man I was with for 16 years and leave the alien behind.