My gut feel is that she's dissatisfied with her life and feels that time is running out for her (usual mortality fears approaching 50) and she's desperately scrambling for quick fixes externally that she hopes will solve everything internally. Which of course, we all know it won't. But at the moment, any change to her old life probably feels like the closest thing to a possible fix - the more drastic, the more hopeful she will be that it's the fairytale fix to everything. She's in chaos, and thus creating chaos.

The question is... how to protect yourself from being drawn into the chaos, as far as possible. I don't know if the marriage is saveable, given how desperately fast she seems to be running from herself, but it probably won't be saved while she's in her current state of mind anyway. So it's probably more about you at the moment - how can you look after yourself (and your kids), calm yourself, start your life, etc.

There is a book that you might like - Barbara Sher how to start your second life after 40 (I think it's called it's only too late if you don't start now). I just got it for my H but haven't read through it yet so I don't know if it's good - but usually her books are. It's the sort of thing I wish your wife could have read. I think it's supposed to be for people who feel like life is passing them by and they haven't got everything they wanted and get tempted to go into mid life crisis and turn everything they've built upside down in an effort to run away from ageing. She explains a little of what goes on (the chapter on love I did read and it was fascinating - especially the bit about last-ditch 'breeding' urges) and I THINK (but as I said have only skimmed) gives advice on how to create change, and the life you want, without upending everything.

Hmm, actually I take it back - I haven't read enough of the book to recommend it yet, and it sounds like it's more about where your wife is at than where you are. There's probably more important things for you to read right now given what's happening, and now is time to focus on you.

You know... it sounds to me like she's having the classic mid life crises.

It sounds like she's waffling because she's beginning to realize its about her and not necessarily about you. But she's still not ready to face her internal demons and its easier/less scary to change the external than dance with those demons that are internal.

She's confused, scared and in pain obviously.

I'm wondering if maybe you could ask her if she'd be willing to date you. So that you and her can connect on a different level. More like the one you did when you were first attracted to each other, when you first met. You don't want to push and you don't want to jump back into the marriage.. you just want to take it very slowly and date. Ask if she'd be willing to consider that..no pressure.. not for your marriage and not for your kids.. but for her and her alone. You love her, you only want whats best for her...and you're asking if she'd maybe give you both a chance to show her this time you'd like to make it all about her.

It could be she's just teetering on the edge of a decision and just is too scared to move.

And if she says yes, then make that date is all about her. Her favorite places, things to do, etc. If she says no, ask if she'd just consider it before she does anything extreme. You'd really appreciate her to consider giving you another chance.

I don't know if recommending books to her right now is the best approach. She might consider it an underhanded way of you trying to get her to do what you want her to do. But you asking her to choose.. telling her you'd like to make this new chance all about her.. well that she might consider.

Loui

This message has been edited. Last edited by: LouiEJ*SYMC,

My suggestion of possibly dating is not an option. The OM is firmly in place and she is going full steam ahead. I know that nothing between us will be possible as long as she continues this relationship.

Somehow the OM has got her completely falling for him. Why? I do not know

I am being replaced as fast as possible and any ideas of dating will be met with an absolute "No"

quote:

Somehow the OM has got her completely falling for him. Why? I do not know

Because he represents escape.

It'll take her some time possibly to realise he isn't one.

Dear MMF,

I am so sorry about your trouble. You and I are somewhat in the same boat. My h, is not living with OW but is having a relationship with her. She has two little ones about 8 years old and has been divorced and separated.
My H is 53 and I believe is in a mid-life crisis - lost weight, dyed hair, etc. (She is 41). He told me that he feels that he only has about 10 more years to live because his father and grandfather lived to 60ish and has many uncles who also died quite young. I've asked him on "dates" but was met with stony silence. Just like you, I yearn for the chance to reconnect with my partner and believe that we could work it out. Life seems unfair right now, doesn't it? I've been doing nice things for myself and it feels good but I know that way down deep inside I still am doing a lot of these things with the hope that my h will take notice and see that I would do just about anything to have him back again. It's hard and I can't give you any words of wisdom, just my complete empathy. The one thing that helps me is to know that I have not given up and will not even if eventually the divorce does go through. I try to empathize with him also - I know he is going through a rough time and that a lot of his meaness is just guilt, shame and confusion. I've learned that it is best not to discuss things that he says to me with others because they tell me I'm better off without him etc. Only we who are going through this know that we are not losers, dumb, or naive - we are the strong ones - we keep our goodness and our hope and our caring in our hearts because we have learned to look beyond the obvious. Don't give up just yet. Good thoughts going out to you----Susan

Why? Here are some of my notes (sorry - they're a bit messy ... being notes and all .....) from the class last year about the mating and pairing drive and infidelity. Based on the work of Helen Fisher:

Universal Aspects of This Thing Called Love

Special Meaning – the beloved becomes the center of the world. All others dim. Attraction to many may happen prior to this (as in dating several people) but as love takes over one person stands out and the others fade away. Experiences take on meaning in relationship to the beloved.

Important to us – when considering the idea of enticing a straying partner back into the M with tons of attention – this aspect of special meaning will block our efforts

Focussed Attention – this is a central aspect of romantic love. The lover focuses virtually all his or her attention on the beloved – even to the detriment of job, family, eating, friends, hobbies, etc. By extension the focus is also on things associated with the beloved – gifts, songs, movies, locales, etc. Incidents are replayed over and over again – the inner world becomes more real than the outer world.

Important to us – also in terms of enticement as well as in understanding why or how a partner can neglect things that were so important in the past in favor of a new love (licit or otherwise).

Aggrandizing the Beloved – good qualities (even imaginary ones) take on epic proportions. Negative aspects of the beloved (or of the relationship itself) may be acknowledged but little or no weight is given to them. *Oh yes, I know, but .....*
"Flagrantly disregarding reality." (Fisher) "Love is blynd" (Chaucer) "A story one makes up in one's mind about the another person." (Virginia Woolf)

Important to us – in understanding the phenomenon of irrational or inappropriate partners.

Intrusive Thinking – this is a primary symptom of romantic love. The beloved becomes a seemingly permanent fixture in the mind of the lover. Intrudes at work, school, into other conversations. Some studies say as much as 85% of waking hours.

Important to us – when discussion w/d, understanding the inner workings of the brain, considering enticing a spouse home.


Emotional Fire – this is the sensation of intense emotions in regard to the beloved. Manifests as weak knees, anxiety, butterflies, blabbering, dizziness, palpitations, breathing difficulties etc. Exhiliration. "You make me crazy." (Catullus)

Important to us – in considering the euphoric pull of the beloved.

Intense Energy[i/] – sleeplessness, loss of appetite are related to this. Motivation to do more – be more. Feeling more alive – more awake – more aware.

Important to us – especially when watching for signs of renewed contact after the end of an affair.

[i]Mood Swings – mood is completely tied to the behavior/attention of the beloved. If s/he is attentive life is good and all is well. Even a perceived slight can send the lover crashing into the depths. External referencing – nonconnection to self – ties back to the Dalai Lama's statement about love as afflictive emotion.

Important to us – in terms of ethics.

Yearning for emotional union – this is the obsession we see with the 300 tm's a day, $500 cell bills, etc. "A state of need." (Plato) This state exists on the emotional and physical planes. This need for connection is so strong it can blur the lover's sense of self.

Important to us – in the statement I love you but I'm not in love with you. This statement tells us a comparison has been made and another is the object of the "state of need."

Looking for Clues – hypersensitivity to clues that the beloved returns the feelings of love – or lack thereof.

Important to us – obsession and snooping particularly in PP.

Changing Priorities – religion, clothing, hair, friends, values. This is where we see women take up golf and men go shopping in the early days of a relationship.

Important to us – to understand the sometimes drastic change in personality and values – kids, jobs, finances, friends etc.


Emotional Dependence – separation anxiety when the lovers are separated.

Empathy – deep connection to the emotional state of the beloved. This is why we see the lover defending the beloved against even imagined slights.

Important to us – in understanding how someone else's feelings can be more important than the spouses in the early days after an affair ends. *I can't tell her/him it's over it will destroy her/him.*

Adversity Heightens Passion – social or physical barriers kindle or intensify romance. Time, distance, disapproval, taboo of any sort. Arguments and temporary break-ups are included in this. Increases other aspects.

Important to us – what we want to trigger in PP – it explains the risk of relationships that share high emotions (fire fighter, er staff, etc) – it explains why abusive or otherwise harmful relationships are so attached.
When someone asks *won't this drive them closer together* the answer is *yes – for a while*.

Question for discussion – how does this relate to Intervention Phase?

Hope – belief/desire that love will win even against all odds

Important to us – in PP especially.

Sexual Connection – intense desire for physical union

Important to us – when choosing to believe whether or not there was a PA

Sexual Exclusivity – believe relationship to be special or sacred and do not want to share.

Important to us – in exploring signs of infidelity – drop in marital sex

Jealousy – desire to keep beloved to oneself.

Important to us –

Emotional Union Trumps Sexual Union – this connection is more important than sex.

Important to us – in understanding EA's

Involuntary, Uncontrollable Love – seems to come out of the blue and cannot be turned off at will. Once triggered cannot be voluntarily stopped.

Important to us – in discussing risks and in understanding the process of letting go of a relationship. Also important in understanding you cannot argue someone into or out of a relationship.

A Transient State – cannot and does not last forever. Estimates are from 6 or 12 and 18 mos. Fisher believes the range is greater depending on the people and circumstances involved.

Important to us – in designing and facilitating ending an affair – and in understanding how the offended mate can become the threat to the marriage.

Love's Many Forms – similar to mood swings.

Discussion – usefulness of assessing meeting needs immediately after the end of an affair

Wow Penny - thanks. A lot to digest and need to read this a few times. So pp is just about all we can do? I have a question - are there any statistics on how effective pp is to a couple getting back together? Any percentages of how many couples facing this type of problem do get back together? Just wondering what the odds are?

What I find to be the most frustrating is that the cheating spouse makes the decision to cheat, blames the other spouse for it and then THEY decide if the marriage is worth reconciling.

For me, she gets to cheat, gets a free pass and goes around lying about when it started, takes away my right to be a full-time parent and then I have top pay her CS.

Where is it written that ONE spouse can choose for a whole family and can be unfaithful to her vow and is entitled to be paid for it?

I am being replaced as quickly as possible and I do not have a choice but to just "accept it". What is the point of making a promise before God if one spouse will walk away because his/her needs aren't being met?

Even better is that they don't have that "feeling" any more so they will give all of their positive energy and effort to someone else who happens to "listen to him/her" and "makes them feel special".

You know, I've read through your whole thread in the last few minutes, and what I hear is this:

I am FURIOUS and horrified and humiliated and completely powerless!!!

Completely powerless.

Utterly, totally, wholly unable to do anything about it.

Now. Sit with that for a while. Can you sit with it and listen to your insides while they're howling in agony about it? I cannot, much as I would like to, fix it for you. But I can tell you that -you- need to listen. And comfort. Comfort that inner voice the way you would your young children when they are in pain or too tired to be coherent.

Can you do that?

Actually, what I can do is drag her cheating a** into family court as I petition the court for 50/50 parenting time. There is no way that I will sit by and just "take it" while she drags our children into her adulterous relationship.

I am sick and tired of being treated like cr*p so she can justify her adultery. I DIDN'T LEAVE and I DIDN'T CHEAT !!!

There comes a point where a man must defend his self-respect and not let someone wipe their feet on them. I am the father of her children and not some disgraceful excuse for a human being.

I will not accept her treating me this way any longer. I will pursue her in court and I will break her financially and emotionally by doing so.

ADULTERY HAS CONSEQUENCES !!!!!!!!

Good Afteroon MMF,
I am so sorry for the pain and anger you are feeling in your situation.

All too often, The betrayed spouse is left feeling very powerless and unimportant/unvaluable.

JustJ has a very good point and an equally helpful suggestion in her last post.

Your response is sounds so full of REVENGE

would that be the best thing for your children? is that the parent/father you want you children to know?

More than you are hurting
more than you are lost and confused
more than you are angry
think about what your children are thinking and feeling
your children are the real victims in this situation.

Do you really want to add to their pain by your seemingly VENGEFUL actions?

hugs to you and yours
Hypatia

quote:

What I find to be the most frustrating is that the cheating spouse makes the decision to cheat, blames the other spouse for it and then THEY decide if the marriage is worth reconciling.

For me, she gets to cheat, gets a free pass and goes around lying about when it started, takes away my right to be a full-time parent and then I have top pay her CS.

Where is it written that ONE spouse can choose for a whole family and can be unfaithful to her vow and is entitled to be paid for it?

I am being replaced as quickly as possible and I do not have a choice but to just "accept it". What is the point of making a promise before God if one spouse will walk away because his/her needs aren't being met?

Even better is that they don't have that "feeling" any more so they will give all of their positive energy and effort to someone else who happens to "listen to him/her" and "makes them feel special".

Hi MMF,

How well I remember having the same questions. Unfortunately, there are no acceptable answers but not all is at it seems. She is experiencing consequences and will continue to for a long time. You had written that the D was decided by mediation, are you content (I know happy isn't an option) with the agreement? ie: CS amt, parenting time, etc. Has your financial situation improved to it's former levels? Are you still living in the family home?

quote:

Yesterday, XW says that I think she is a b...h and that my stating to others that she cheated is unfair because when she started with OM she "WAS DONE".

If you are expressing the frustration and anger to her that you are here, it's not surprising that she would say you think she is a b*tch. An attitude like that doesn't help make you appear to be a very attractive choice as a partner. That is one of the prime objectives of Protection Phase...to keep you from sabotaging any chance of reconciliation. All that said, if she was in a relationship before the divorce was final, that's cheating. What else can you possibly call a relationship with someone while you're still married to someone else? Saying that it started the day she asked for the D is probably BS (NOT betrayed spouse), but I'm sure you already suspect that. I was told approximately the same thing, but later found out the A had been going on for almost 2 years. She even told me their plan was to wait 6 months before going public, so I wouldn't suspect it started earlier.

So...

quote:

- My wife left me because of finances

It's a done deal. I know it's not easy, but what can you do to let go of it, and what can we do to help.

quote:

- She began an affair while still living under the same roof with me and our children

She is the one that will deal with the consequences for the rest of her life.

quote:

- She gets child support

They're your children also. Can you go for primary custody?

quote:

- Now appears to be making a dash to remarriage and the ink is barely dry on the papers

She's single with two young children. She most likely is looking for financial security. I'm curious about where you said she doesn't work and lives rent free...how's that work? Was she working in the past?

quote:

- She is bringing my children in direct contact with OM(divorced w/3 children)

Unfortunately, she has every right to. I know that doesn't help, but you need to learn to accept it. OTOH, you also need to be vigilant in making sure that your children are being cared for properly.

quote:

I can only improve myself and hope that I will get another chance to bring my family back together.

What have you done or are currently doing to improve yourself? Are you sincerely interested in reconciling with your XW? It would be an opportunity to have an improved relationship, but you would first need to do the work so your anger and resentment doesn't get in the way.

I can tell you from first hand experience, doing the work to improve your outlook is well worth the effort, regardless of the outcome of your relationship with your XW. I can also tell you that it takes alot more time than you would prefer.

From what I see, you have several choices.

1. You can do nothing different. She has control, you stay angry and frustrated and possibly drive a stake in whatever remnants are left of your marriage.
2. You do the work necessary. She sees the new you as a more attractive option than the angry man she divorced. You reconcile with a redefined relationship.
3. You do the work necessary. She doesn't see the difference or doesn't care at that point, but you're ok with it and can move on with your life. You have an new relationship that is better than you ever imagined while she continues having the same dynamics and problems.

Other's here may see other alternatives.

Good luck to you.
Joe

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 1niceguy,

..... Yeah. I know. It's really, really, really hard to sit with those feelings of powerlessness and inadequacy. Rage -- revenge -- fury -- are all part of the adrenaline rush that arises out of what Stosny calls, rather dryly, "A sudden drop in self-worth when in a vulnerable position."

In other words, I reminded you that sometimes you feel really rotten about yourself, and it hurt so much that you had to lash out.

I'm asking, though, for something different. Not rage. Not fury. Not I'm-going-to-do-something-about-it stuff.

Something much different. Something infinitely harder.

I'm asking you to sit with it. Listen to it. Listen to the fury and the rage. Listen to the terror and the hurt and the overwhelming shame and humiliation underneath it.

Listen.

And comfort.

MMF,

I hesitate to respond to your posts, but I was asked to respond to your last one and so, with great compassion, a few tears and a bit of fear I will do so. I am concerned about writing in such a public place because it opens me a great deal and puts me in a position that is extremely vulnerable and more than a bit scary. If I appear hard or reserved, my apologies. Please be assured, that is not my intention but I hope you'll understand. I am willing to write, however, and share a bit of what I felt and still feel because no one should ever go through what my kids have gone through and still do.

I was the wayward spouse. What I did was wrong.

Many years ago my ex-husband could very well have written what you wrote, he said as much to me, and he did do what you want to do.

He fought me in court and he won....just about everything. My kids are not with me...well not enough and my hands are tied in many ways. I don't always make ends meet financially. My heat is at 55 when the kids aren't here. I pay money to my ex-husband in child support every month, money I truly cannot afford and my kids suffer for it, although I do try to not let them see.

On many days I felt (and sometimes still feel) that he wanted to grind me into nothing. He literally fought me over gym shorts for the kids and a pack of school paper that cost a dime, boots, chickens, just to name a few things. We still fight, over time with the kids, over the kids' toys, over money....

And it breaks my heart because every time we fight we end up using and hurting three very wonderful children who in no way should be torn from limb to limb the way we have done to them.

I justify being defensive and fighting as protecting myself. I have always sacrificed a great deal to be with my kids and take care of them: my career, money, time, someone I love. Now, everything I have I have because I fought and worked hard. I am okay, the kids and I are very well and happy together. However, I cannot be weak in anyway. I cannot and will not allow one crack, one hole, one opening. And it is true, I need to protect myself, but not ever at my boys' expense. I suppose he felt and sometimes still feels justified in what he does, just as you do.

At several points while we tried recovery I thought we could find our way together. But then...well, from my point of view, I would see the anger that I see in your post, I would see him do something to take my kids away and I would get scared, protect myself and them and move further away. I do the same today. We still cannot talk to eachother and I often get physically ill if I have to spend time in his presence.

I have learned a great deal, some I will try to share with you. If anyone knows me they will probably laugh at my chauvanism...well, the courts made men and women equal but God made us different. First, your children will learn to treat women by watching how you treat their mother, now and forever, especially if you have boys. And if you have girls (sorry I haven't read your posts) they will learn how to expect a man to treat them. What do you want them to learn? Second, if you've raised your kids well they will want to care for and protect their mom. They should do that, it's their mom. Third, what I did was wrong. But, ripping your wife to shreds in court will set the tone for a very sad, painful relationship for everyone, especially your children post-divorce. And...post-divorce truly is forever.

I will leave you with the thought a friend once gave me. (Star on SYMC once told me the same thing.)
"When you hurt the mother you hurt the kids. When you support, cherish, and care for the mother you support, cherish and care for the kids." The friend who told me this was found, by a DNA test, not to be the father of a baby he had supported emotionally and financially for two years. He walked out of court, where he was told he had no parental rights and cannot see the child, and bought diapers, boots, a winter coat and two bags of groceries for the child. He does so weekly. Some loves overcome great hurts.

For me, when judgement day comes I know my greatest sin is the hurt I have caused my children.

Well, I have said what I believe I was required to say. Sometimes God truly asks more than I think I can do. But, I hope that what I've said helps. If further discussion would help, post here and I'll probably eventually see it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: aguantar,

So let me see...

She has an A, walks out to mommy and daddy's rent free apartment, treats me like garbage, blames me for all of our problems, blames me for not having a third child(due to finances). She brings my children into an adulterous relationship with a person divorced with 3 children.

and then...

I am supposed to do all the work, have to forgive and hope that she wants to reconcile.

Since when is this all about her ??

She cheated, took our children away from their father, talks to me like I am some evil person and demands money.

I would ask if someone could explain why a WS feels they are entitled to cheat and lie and destroy a family out of selfishness??

Do my children have the right to have a stable and loving household with BOTH parents. Yet, the WS doesn't give a **** about anyone but themselves.

Ironically, the WS also sees that there is nothing about their actions that is wrong and they do nothing except continue down a road of selfishness at the expense of everyone else.

To the WS, the answer is divorce and that they "just want to be happy" Meanwhile, my children hurt and she could care less because her reasoning is..."they'll adjust"

A marriage vow means nothing to so many and they discard their promise like an old pair of pants. This is why people remarry so quickly after divorce. It is not about the "commitment"..it is just words they say before the big party.

So my children suffer because of her selfishness and I am just supposed to drop my anger so I can be seen as a better partner !!

I made my mistakes(financially) but I didn't quit and I didn't cheat and giving my XW a free pass to be an adulterer is not working for me.

quote:

First, your children will learn to treat women by watching how you treat their mother, now and forever, especially if you have boys. And if you have girls (sorry I haven't read your posts) they will learn how to expect a man to treat them. What do you want them to learn? Second, if you've raised your kids well they will want to care for and protect their mom. They should do that, it's their mom. Third, what I did was wrong. But, ripping your wife to shreds in court will set the tone for a very sad, painful relationship for everyone, especially your children post-divorce. And...post-divorce truly is forever.

I will leave you with the thought a friend once gave me. (Star on SYMC once told me the same thing.)
"When you hurt the mother you hurt the kids. When you support, cherish, and care for the mother you support, cherish and care for the kids."

Aquantar is right on the money here (and said beautifully, I might add)

MMF.. you are missing the whole point of what we are trying to tell you.

Yes.. she did all those things.
Yes.. she was wrong
Yes.. she hurt you
Yes.. All that happened with the affair is her fault.

Now...

Everything that happens AFTER the affair is BOTH your resposnibilities.

And EVERYTHING YOU DO from here on in is yours.

Meaning... when you are angry (and rightfully so) and incredibly angry and upset (understandbly so) ...

If you make decisions on how you are going to respond to things from that space you are hurting no one but yourself. And your kids learn those lessons by watching you.

This part of what we are talking about is not about her. It is not about what she did being right or wrong, harmful or not. This part we are talking about is about you. Your anger. Your hurt. Your behavior.

This is not about giving your wife a free pass to be an adulterer. By all means you should get an atty and you should do thru the courts whatever possible to get what is considered fair and just. (It doesn't always work out that way.. but the effort should be in that direction).

It is the space from which you come from that effects you and your kids.

If you are out to punish your wife using the court system to do so.. your kids will be dragged emotionally thru the mud. And so will you. And they will see how you behave and the inner landscape that you are working from.. which rather than compassion is anger and hurt.
If you are out to find retribution thru the courts towards your wife.. you probably will come away from that poorer and in no better internal state than when you started. And your kids will watch this every step of the way.

Your kids will suffer not only because of her selfishness but because of yours too. I know that is hard to see right now but it is true.

What we are trying to get you to do right now is to stop.

Stop and listen to what is going on inside of you. Understand that we really understand how you feel. Most of us (if not all) have been there. We've made the mistakes, we've had to readjust our thinking...we've had to come to terms with our own emotions so that we are able to make compassionate, even keeled decisions.. rather than emotional, reckless, painful and sometimes very expensive mistakes.

Loui

MMF,

Hello. You don't know me, but I do know what you're going through - oh yes - I surely do.

And.....

This rage is so normal, understandable, and even justified;

** it is also so harmful, and counter-productive.....**

So first I want to share a gift with you that was given to me, right when I was feeling like you are now.

*What if I could choose to stop being the victim of my FWH's affair? Would I then have enough love to say to my H, and our family, "yes, we can get through this, and be stronger than we ever were before?"

What if I could choose to stop the trauma that is rolling through me like a tsunami, writhing it's destruction, both in-coming and out-going? Could I then take responsibility for my healing, in partnership with my H, instead of passively waiting for him to heal me?

What if I stopped blaming my H, and had the courage to own my part of the problems that left our marriage vulnerable? Would I then have the compassion to see his pain, and be sorry for it, and want to help him heal, too?

What if I stopped shaming him, and he could look me in the eyes again? Could we laugh together again?

What if I had enough faith to look at him and say "divorce is not an option, so, yes, let's go for the glory?" Would I have, then, the courage to build a marriage that gives truth to "happily ever after?"

What if I chose to look at the future of our marriage with hope, instead of looking back in despair? Would I then get back my joy?

What if I could think of the hurt as "birthing pains," instead of "mortal wounds?" Would I then regain my hope?

What if I stopped feeling humiliated, and honored the strength I have gained? Could I then regain my serenity?

What if I could do all these things? Would I then be the woman I always wanted to be?

What if these are all of the things I want with him? ****

It changed me. Then, over 2 years ago, and still.

If I am repeating anything you have already heard, please forgive me, as I have not read any but your last 2 posts.

The thing about recovery is that it's not one strand, it's more like rope or cable - many strands woven together, to form 1 strong whole. And those strands need to be woven, whether the M is recovered or not.

Let me break it down; there is your personal recovery, the ws's personal recovery, your kids' indidual recovery(s)your recovery with the children, the ws's recovery with the children, (maybe) marital recovery.....

Do you see?

The odd thing about recovery from an affair, is that we have to heal ourselves, nobody can do that for us - each has to do their own healing, both the wayward, and the betrayed, and the children. So you can do your recovery work, which sort of begins the childrens' recovery. My friend, LovingBoundaries very first post to me explains it best - she is responding to my distress about the a's affect on my children.

***** "I can tell you the biggest reason that I am glad that I tried to rebuild the marriage. A big part of the recovery process is individual recovery....and that is something that's not only necessary for rebuilding a marriage, it's something that we own whether or not the marriage gets rebuilt.

Personal recovery was also important for dealing with.....
quote:
Our son thinks his dad is a hypocrite. Our son no longer has a testimony, and he is self-destructing. I am trying not to self-destruct, but I wish I could. Our daughter is, more and more, acting like our son.
I can't talk specifically about this due to confidentiality agreements that my kids requested about posting, but I can tell you this.....

Imho, the effects and benefits of personal recovery cannot be overestimated as to how it also benefits our kids....especially during their times of turmoil." *****


You have a choice, you can choose to not recover. For me, I think recovery sucks, but it's better than the alternative.

My friend (and coach) JustJ said:
"Yeah. I know. It's really, really, really hard to sit with those feelings of powerlessness and inadequacy. Rage -- revenge -- fury -- are all part of the adrenaline rush that arises out of what Stosny calls, rather dryly, "A sudden drop in self-worth when in a vulnerable position."

She's just given you a place to start your personal recovery!

Oh! Yes that's the REALLY rotten part about all this recovery - YOU HAVE TO GO FIRST! I know, it's not fair, or right, or anything you want to hear, much less do, but.....

Do you want to remain a victim? Want your kids to carry this pain?

My friend LovingBoundaries, told her ws that she would recover with him or without him; I told my ws the same thing. She believed at the start of her rec overy that she would stay married, I thought I would be divorced. She is divorced, I am still in my m and just recently decided to stay married. We are constantly amazed at the parallels in our journeys, with such different marital outcomes.....

But the RESULTS are the same for us both - recovered.

You and your family need a recovery hero. Is that you?

Peace to you, MMF,

h2s

This message has been edited. Last edited by: hrt2stone,

quote:

Since when is this all about her ??

What we seem to have here is a failure to communicate. (whistling theme music).

MMF, I hope you go back and read what everyone has been trying to express to you. It's nothing about her, and all about you.

Your anger, bitterness and frustration comes through loud and clear. We understand, sympathize, been there. How's that working for you so far?

I'd like you to answer two questions...

1. What would have to happen for YOU to return to your marriage?
2. In what ways are you different than the man she left?

Please take your time and look inside yourself for the answers.

Joe

apparently we are having a failure to communicate. As is always the case, these forums go back to ME as the one to change. I am supposed to look to ME as the reason for the problems.

All the time it is the same tune...

She made a "mistake"

You have to forgive her

Be nice to her for the kids

Accept that "it is what it is"

It isn't fair but life isn't fair

It is up to you to change so she can see you differently

Yes, she left but WHY? did she leave

Blah, blah, blah...

I SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE ONE TO CHEAT AND LEAVE SO AT LEAST I WOULD BE ABLE TO DUMP ON MY FAMILY AND WALK AWAY BASED ON MY CHOICE AND SLEEP LIKE A BABY AT NIGHT !!!

MMF,

Everyone here wants to help you see what we've learned... about ourselves, about our spouses, about marriage.

Look, you're not just plowing forward with revenge, though you feel like it. Instead, you are here, at SYMC, writing.

Why?

My guess is that even though you are hurt in ways that only someone who has been in your shoes can understand (which includes MANY of us, MMF - including me)... you must sense that the anger is harming you more than anyone else. You must realize that you're expending your precious energy being angry and spinning your wheels, for what? Being angry doesn't change anything, does it? It just "is"... and it sits like a rock in the pit of your stomach. I understand... I really do.

I think the anger is a part of the process, like grieving. Accept it as where you're "at" right now.

My advice is to sit with this anger and think about what you can do for yourself NOW to help eliviate the harmful aspects of it. I mean things like eat right, sleep, exercise... you know, self-care stuff.

Take care...

PS: to aguantar ~ That was a very brave post. I don't know you, but I am impressed.