It HAS to come back you - THERE'S NOT ONE SINGLE THING YOU CAN DO TO CHANGE HER!!!!!

You cannot control her, change her. fix her, make her better - or make her anything else! And if she sleeps like a baby at night, that's on her! Her wrongs are on HER!

Yours are on YOU! Including the ones you make from here on out. Your healing and recovery are on YOU! You don't sleep like a baby at night?

Do the hard, hard work of recovery and healing, and then you will - but again, it's on YOU!

Do you want to feel this crummy and bitter and hurt for the rest of your life? You have that choice. Simply keep doing what you are doing now.

Here's the thing - even if she came back today and said
happily ever after," YOU'D STILL NEED TO HEAL!!! THE HURT AND ANGER WOULD STILL BE THERE!!!!

Healing, recovery, is a choice, how to achieve that healing is a path we know how to negotiate - we learned how, through our own bitter and painful experience, and with the help of this loving, safe village.

We KNOW how to do this, are you willing to let yourself be helped by our experience?

MMF, go read my early stuff, and the early stuff of so many members here. Read the stuff of people who came here and wouldn't choose healing - they dropped out, we don't see them any more. The ones who do choose to heal and recover..... Well, we're still here, for people like you, people like us, who are just wanting the agony and rage to end.

This recovery is the hardest thing you will ever do. Sometimes it feels like you are turning yourself in-side out, and all the time it feels SOOOO unfair. Then, one day it does not look so unfair at all, it looks like I got the best end of the bargain, because I am happy.

I get to live my life without any regrets. I am at peace, and I * do * sleep like a baby, most of the time, because I earned it.

The infidelity was an atrociously selfish and hurtful thing, and the only answer we can give is to answer that selfishness with compassion - for ourselves, our children, and yes, the ws. Because, ultimately, they hurt themselves as badly as they did everyone else.

I do not expect you to blame yourself for the problems, blame helps not at all, it's very toxic; just own your part of what went befor.

I don't think the ws made a mistake. Adding to much salt to the succotacsh is a mistake, an affair is a supremely selfish choice that the ws made, that had NOTHING to do with you.

You DON'T have to forgive her, I don't suggest you even try. Forgiveness is byproduct that may come as the result of your recovery, NOT the primary goal.

No, NOT "be nice to her for the kids." Treat her with dignity and compassion, because she is the mother of YOUR children, and because anything less diminishes YOU!

It is, indeed what it is, so, what are you going to do to change this rotten what is? The ONLY thing you can change is you.

Life isn't fair. It is not fair that my son had his first open-heart procedure at a year old, the second one at 5 yrs old, that he has to have more, or that he lives EVERYDAY of his life in pain. At least we can heal our pain.

It's up to you to heal so can see your life diferently and decide what you want, if you want to let her see you differently.

Yes, she left. I am so sorry, I really know how much that hurts, and how scary and devastating that is. I know that it touches EVERY SINGLE ELEMENT of you whoile life!!! and you may wish.... And screaming doesn't help. And nothing else helps. And you feel so desperate, and NOTHING HELPS!!!!! And it IS as bad as it is.

But we * can * recover and be whole again, but only we have that power.

And thank God you didn't cheat and walk out, MMF, Could you imagine having to live with that? I think that would be much worse, don't you?

Peace,

h2s

This message has been edited. Last edited by: hrt2stone,

MMF...
I'm sorry we are having a failure to communicate.

so let me ask you if I have it right.. tell me yes or no.

1. You are feeling angry that she had an affair
2. You are feeling hurt because what she did has broken your family
3. You are feeling angry because you feel you did nothing wrong and she did.
4. You are feeling hurt because it feels like you get all the dumped on and she gets to do the dumping

Did I get those right?
If not please amend them so I can hear you correctly

quote:

apparently we are having a failure to communicate. As is always the case, these forums go back to ME as the one to change. I am supposed to look to ME as the reason for the problems.

Actually just a little note here. Asking you to change is not accusing you of being the reason for the problems.

Your wife's decision to have an affair and to behave in an unethical way is about her behavior and about her reasons. Not yours.

Asking you to change is about moving your thoughts and emotions from a destructive place to a more constructive place. One where you make decisions based on compassionate choices rather than base emotions.

Loui

MMF, when everyone gets done and you are too, come back to what I asked. I'll be here reading along.

1) Yes

2) Yes

3) No, we are both responsible for the health of our marriage. I am not without fault and made some very poor choices in regards to our finances

4) Yes, she dumps on me and our children because she is selfish

My apologies MMF if I offended you. I know that hearing from a wayward spouse, even if it's not your spouse, must be difficult. I am truly sorry for the pain you are going through. And apologies to you J for getting off your topic.

This really isn't all about your wife nor is it all about you. If you had no children I would never have written. You would each eventually heal, together or separately. She could go her way, you could go yours and that would be that.

But, you have kids and that makes all the difference. The minute those kids were conceived everything stopped being about her or about you and everything became about the kids.

Sometimes I can't believe I'm the grown up. I'll go on a field trip with the kids, look around and realize they are all looking at me and I better bring back the same number I took, even better if it's the same kids. It's hard work, this being a parent, and it has enormous rewards. Part of both the work and the rewards is being able to make it all about the kids.

Many years ago, well 18, I was carrying my infant son on a walk through town. I was literally stopped on my tracks by an all encompassing feeling of love. Holding this child who woke me up every two hours, who only wanted to nurse, cried, went through diapers (cloth ones at that) like Niagara Falls, wouldn't let me work, for whom I had almost literally died, I felt true love. He was the first person in my life who did nothing for me. My parents raised me. I love them. My siblings provided comic relief and I like them as people. I love them. My friends I all loved for various reasons, the same with other family members. At the very least all these folks did stuff for me and I could ask for help if necessary. But this baby in my arms only made demands on me, yet I loved him beyond measure. That moment I realized that kind of love is but a shadow of how God loves us. A love so huge that I couldn't even understand it and cannot now even put it into words.

I am not a preachy person, you've just gotten more preachiness out of me than anyone. But the kids matter.

I now return you to J's question. Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by MissMyFamily:
It is up to you to change so she can see you differently

Actually, MMF, it's also up to you to change so YOU can see you differently. Have you listened to yourself lately?

Okay, let me back up a bit. I'm aguantar's ex-h. When we were struggling in our marriage I felt such loss, I chose a screen name that identified me by my wife's action or inaction (husband of fence sitter). I've been very much where you are today. I've been the betrayed spouse. I've also experienced the conflicted emotions. Sure there was anger but deep down, it was fear. I was very afraid and I acted from a position of fear. I was afraid of being alone, afraid of losing my kids, afraid of ending up living in a cardboard box.

In my core I felt helpless and inadequate and unloveable. All these hurts led me to being rather cold I suspect. I tried to identify ways to stop my wife's behavior hoping that she would see things my way. When that didn't work, I got very cold to her. I'm sure that felt like anger to her. I suspect our children saw it the same way. I tried not to be disrespectful but knowing what was going on at the time, it was very hard. I regret any harm to my ex-w or children that resulted from my actions or from what was said or not said.

You know why it was hard? Because deep down, I didn't know myself anymore. It's taken time but I know there are people that love me. There are people that I love. I have communities I live and work in. I've seen beauty in nature. I would rescue a child in the desert...only I didn't see my ex-w as that child several years ago.

Have you been harmed? Absolutely. Does it change who you are at your core? Not a bit. What I see many people recommending is that you find that person. If you can, you'll be able to make decisions more clearly. You'll also look and sound different to other people.

Okay, my finger with the ruptured tendon is bothering me and I think I need to readjust the splint. Hugs to you from someone who has been there.

HoFS

This message has been edited. Last edited by: HoFS_SYMC,

Good morning MMF,


I have been dealing with this stuff for more than 3 years now, and reading your posts, this cold, dark morning, for a moment I am back at the beginnig - hard to breath, sick at my stomach, maimed to my soul.....

I think about what JustJ said - sit with the feelings; all that yucky stuff.

***** "I am FURIOUS and horrified and humiliated and completely powerless!!!

Utterly, totally, wholly unable to do anything about it.

Now. Sit with that for a while. Can you sit with it and listen to your insides while they're howling in agony about it? I cannot, much as I would like to, fix it for you. But I can tell you that -you- need to listen. And comfort. Comfort that inner voice the way you would your young children when they are in pain or too tired to be coherent."*****

She told me that and I wanted to slap her. I wanted to get away from all this, not sit with it - in it.

But something happened in it, a shift in my oh-so-maimed soul. Quiet, almost imperceptible at first, then growing... Hearing my maimed and howling insides...Comforting them, somehow wrapping my arms to embrace the woundedness.....

The start of something new.....

Peace to you MMF,

h2s

Like so many here, I have been dealing with this for some time. I have to listen to her blame me for where she is at. I have to see my kids knowing that our family will never be the same again. I have to hear about her family outings with OM and his kids.

I have to get her attitude day after day and take it. She moves on as if I don't matter and I am an unfortunate inconvenience to her. I am sure that all she sees is that the OM is who she should have married and her life would have been "perfect".

Also, how cruel to blame me because we don't have 3 children and say that I took that option away from her.

Her resentment and bitterness is so deep and everything in her life just moves along while I am stuck paying her and listening to her nonsense and blame day in and day out.

She lied and continues to lie about the affair and does some crying when we talk about "stuff".

She is not in any "fog" she does not want to be alone so she will end up marrying the OM and become a stepmom to 3 other children.

Why? because she has to lean on a man for everything just like she has with her father her whole life.

Daddy is "perfect" and I couldn't measure up because she can always count on daddy(her words)

Good Morning MMF,

I think what everyone here is trying to say is that you need to get grounded. In reading your posts, the anger and frustration comes through and keeps you from moving on.

You might want to take a look at Getting grounded

All the statements that you made in your last post...do you believe them?

Perhaps Protection Phase isn't appropriate, given the stage of your relationship, but a variation might be in order. It would provide you the opportunity to regroup, regain your self esteem, and work through your feelings without the chaos of dealing with XW.

You're also invited to join us tonight for Guys Night Out. Check here for details: GNO. We've been in your shoes.

Hmmm.. MMF

I'm glad that I was hearing you correctly so that you understand that I hear you.

So let me ask you?

Do you 'hear' what we are saying to you?

Could you go over some of the things that we've written and maybe put into words here what you believe we are telling you?

I think that might help both you and us be able to communicate more effectively to one another.

quote:

I have to listen to her blame me for where she is at. I have to see my kids knowing that our family will never be the same again. I have to hear about her family outings with OM and his kids.

I have to get her attitude day after day and take it.

Well actually.. you don't have to take it. That is partially what we talked about way earlier about setting boundaries for yourself and such.. but, we'll talk about that later.

J's question..

quote:

I'm asking, though, for something different. Not rage. Not fury. Not I'm-going-to-do-something-about-it stuff.

Something much different. Something infinitely harder.

I'm asking you to sit with it. Listen to it. Listen to the fury and the rage. Listen to the terror and the hurt and the overwhelming shame and humiliation underneath it.

Listen.

And comfort.

After you write down and tell us what you believe you hear us saying to you.. could you do what J asked above as well? and let us know how that is for you?

We want to help you thru this horrible time... where you are just so filled with hurt and rage. We want to help you get to a place where you can make the decisions you will need to.
I believe you are asking us for that help too.

Loui

quote:

Like so many here, I have been dealing with this for some time.

You have. And I am so sorry. Not having been in quite the same place you are I can only imagine how heartbreaking it must be. My heart hurts for you .... all of you.

quote:

I have to listen to her blame me for where she is at.

How awful that must be .... and how terribly powerless it must feel not to heard by the person who once promised to love and cherish you. I am so sorry. Is there a way you can remove yourself a little so you don't need to hear her say it any more? We can't stop her from doing so ... and I can imagine how much that must hurt .... but we might be able to get you out of the direct line of hearing.

quote:

I have to see my kids knowing that our family will never be the same again.

Yes, that is heartbreaking almost to the point of despair, isn't it? I wish I could make it better and I know I can't. Few things are as gut wrenching as seeing your children's lives compromised.

quote:

I have to hear about her family outings with OM and his kids.

Ooof. That bites. I'm so sorry. Is this coming from your children or from her? If it's from her maybe the distance I mentioned above might create a little bit of buffer for you.

quote:

I have to get her attitude day after day and take it.

Are you and she in regular contact? Can I help you create some space so you don't have to deal with this day after day?

quote:

She moves on as if I don't matter and I am an unfortunate inconvenience to her.

Yeah .....I know. It's what everyone who has an affair does. Not that that makes it ok. It just makes it incredibly sad.

quote:

I am sure that all she sees is that the OM is who she should have married and her life would have been "perfect".

I want to tell you this from my experience as the person who had the affair in my first marriage and my experience of working with many many people over the last several years. I know it looks like that on the outside. And I promise you that beneath what you see there is regret and pain on her part. There are times when she wakes in the dark hours before dawn and wonders how her life got to this point -- and her heart breaks. You may never see that from her .... maybe no one will .... but I promise you it is there.

quote:

Also, how cruel to blame me because we don't have 3 children and say that I took that option away from her.

Yes. That is cruel. I'm so sorry. It's her way of lashing out at you. She may or may not really believe it .... but either way it is a horrible thing to say to you.

quote:

Her resentment and bitterness is so deep and everything in her life just moves along while I am stuck paying her and listening to her nonsense and blame day in and day out.

It's terrible to watch someone acting from that place of resentment an bitterness isn't it? I hope you can avoid that so that as you make decisions you don't lose your connection to compassion.

quote:

She lied and continues to lie about the affair and does some crying when we talk about "stuff".

I know. Everyone lies about it. I'm so sorry. You must feel like your life dropped into some terrible nightmare.

quote:

Daddy is "perfect" and I couldn't measure up because she can always count on daddy(her words)

Well that's just creepy, isn't it? You and I know that's not true. How about we find a way to move beyond her fog and toward some peace for you? I don't have a magic wand I can wave and change what she is doing .... but I might be able to help you grieve and process.

Hugs to you,

P

Penny,

I am not too proud to admit that I should have done better as a husband and provider.

For 3 years I struggled to get things going so my wife could be a SAHM...I failed

Meanwhile, it drove a wedge in between us and the emotional distance was awful. For some reason, we couldn't pick ourselves up and work through it together. She wanted me to work 3 jobs if needed and she even declined an offer from my sister to set up home day care.

I cannot overcome the financial disaster and her feeling that she was robbed of having another child. Whatever I did that was good is no longer relevant.

My wife said that we made a deal and she kept her end of the deal and I didn't keep up my end. It is so sad that our marriage was about who did what right or wrong and I failed in her eyes and was no longer worthy of her love.

I have to accept that she no longer desires me as her husband. I just wish she would have done it the proper way.

I really do love her...I really miss her

Sigh ... I am so so sorry.....

You know, don't you, that people having an affair re-write marital history. Sooo ... not only does everything become your fault ... there is *nothing* you can do to make it better.

It's part of the script that virtually every person who has an affair seems programed to follow.

That being the case .... I think it's admirable and positive that you can look at the contributions you made to things going downhill. AND - it's really really really important to remember that *every* marriage faces immense challenges, trials, and tribulations - with the occasional crisis tossed in for good measure. It's supposed to be that way .... facing our own demons, embracing and healing them while maintaining and intimate relationship is what makes up grown ups.

So. It's good to recognize the things you did that weren't the best idea. It's just as important to recognize that your wife's brain is programmed, right now, to blame you exclusively. AND that having issues in a marriage is part of what marriage is all about (that's why the vows say "for better or worse). If you can keep those three things balanced in your mind and your heart it will help in finding that place of peace.

You do indeed need to accept that she doesn't desire you right now. That is reality. And I am so so sorry. Grieving that kind of loss is a painful process - we'll do whatever we can to support and help you.

Hugs,

P

quote:

And apologies to you J for getting off your topic.

No apology necessary! I thought what you wrote was really, really good. I'm glad you posted it.

To All...

I have been reading and reading for so long trying to understand all of this.

A spouse gets attention from someone else and they go running towards this other person and it is equated to an "addiction". Why is it considered an addiction? I have read all about the "neurochemicals" etc. that drive the WS toward the OP.

What I don't understand is how they can just drop their spouse so easily?

What about the history? What about the fact we had children together? What about all the times I was there for her? What about the love we had that brought us to be married in the first place?

The OP gets it handed to them on a silver platter? They have no history, they didn't have children together. All he did was be in a certain place at a certain time when my W was emotionally vulnerable.

All he had to do was just be a listening ear and VOILA !! he is her instant "soul mate"(in her eyes). So much so that our life together means nothing to her any more.

I read about all the pain she as the WS is experiencing but perhaps her bitterness runs so deep that she has no regret nor does she care. I just cannot understand how my W can just give all of her positive energy to someone else who did nothing but get involved in another person's marriage.

It also drives me crazy that the OP can do no wrong and I am the evil one that destroyed her dreams. How can someone that vows their love and fidelity can discard you and just "move on" to the next person as if you didn't exist?

Then, I am told it is all my fault and I am solely responsible. As she said, "if you had just done what you had to do, we wouldn't be where we are today". "You had 3 years to fix it and you never did".

Now the OP is her "dream man". What if any faults does he have?(besides getting involved with a married woman) What makes him so perfect?

I am so lost how a spouse can be tossed aside and treated like garbage. Why am I such an awful human being? Why is he the only one that matters to her?

Why do they always use "I just want to be happy" as the excuse and blame, blame, blame and accept ZERO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR CHOICES ?

I do not walk on water but it appears that we must in order to hopefully keep our marriages and families together.

Does any one believe in commitment any more or is it all about the "feeling"?

ahhh.. MMF...

I hear how much you are hurting.. I am so sorry it feels so crappy.

And unfortunately the answers mostly lie with your wife and her internal landscape. How she was able to walk away from her vows in such a way and let go of her morals and values is not easily understandable to someone who hasn't.

quote:

What I don't understand is how they can just drop their spouse so easily?

I know it looks this way, sounds this way, and feels this way.. but actually.. more than likely it wasn't. More than likely it took a great wrenching of emotion to do it. And because the neurochemicals and rush that the new things gives.. it made it somewhat easier to push aside. But I can guarantee you the internal cost to her is great.

quote:

What about the history?

Okay.. so now after that initial drop in values she's put herself into a position of feeling guilt...and as with addiction, she wants to protect these newer feelings.. the rush, so to speak of those neurochemicals (If you can remember the excitment you had of your first date.. its very much like that)...so now she'll rewrite history.. change the view of what your marriage was in order to justify her actions.. which deep down inside she knows were absolutely wrong and hurtful. And she'll do this as a way to try and push away or stamp down her guilt and pain, as well as, give herself the 'reasons' for what she did.

quote:

The OP gets it handed to them on a silver platter? They have no history, they didn't have children together. All he did was be in a certain place at a certain time when my W was emotionally vulnerable

unfortunately.. yes. thats exactly all he did...and I'm not even going to go into where his internal landscape fits into all of this.

So, all that talk about you destroying her dreams, you not living up to what she thought you should, you not doing this, you. you. you.

What is she deflecting from?
Everything that is in conflict inside of her. Every choice that she has made to get her where she is..

Trust me OP is her 'dream man' is a perfect statement. Cause I would be willing to bet that somewhere down the road apiece she will begin to realize that the man she's having the affair with and the man he really is.. was her dream of what she thought he was and not who he really is. I can't tell you how often this will occur. At that time.. and only at that time will she be able to rationally sort out what she did. And much of the time it can have disasterous effects.

quote:

I am so lost how a spouse can be tossed aside and treated like garbage. Why am I such an awful human being? Why is he the only one that matters to her?

Sigh.. MMF.. you are NOT an awful human being. He is the only one that matters because right now SHE is stuck in a self place that is all consummed with equal parts of pleasure and pain... and she's desperately trying to dull the pain part.

quote:

Why do they always use "I just want to be happy" as the excuse and blame, blame, blame and accept ZERO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR CHOICES ?

Because that is one of the hallmarks of addictive behavior.

quote:

Does any one believe in commitment any more

Gosh I sure as heck hope so!!!It would be a very sad world if we all forgot what that is.

Loui

I don't even know if this would still be considered an affair? Our divorce is almost final and we haven't lived together in 14 months.

The R did start in secret while we were still living together with our children as husband and wife.

Am I wrong to feel that this is no longer an affair or it is based on when and how it started?

IMHO..

If you are still married.. it is still an affair.

If she does go thru with the divorce, then afterwards, if they remain together.. it is a relationship, that may 'now' be considered legitimate.. but started as an affair.

Which does cast a bit of shadow on the whole thing really...no matter how long term it is. That starting place was not an ethical one.

Does that make it any easier on you? Nope, sadly it does not.

Loui

My heart goes out to you so much, your pain is so overwhelming, I wish we could fast forward your life for you to see what lies ahead. I think you would be suprised to see that you will heal from this but it will take a LOT of courage and soul searching on your part.

You state that you love and miss her. Who exactly do you love? The person you fell in love with many years ago? The one who respected you, shared your dreams, had values and morals, the one you trusted to be your life partner and remain faithful? It seems to me that person no longer exists. She is not the same person you married. I think you are looking at her through rose colored glasses. You need to look at the real woman she is now, do you really want that person back? Do you honestly, I really mean honestly, think you could ever be happy with her again now that you have seen this side of her?

How you get a grip on things now will determine your future relationship with your kids. They may be young now but believe me, some day they will be adults and will remember this traumatic event. So how you handle it now will leave a huge impression on your adult relationship with them. I don't know what she tells them now about you, but I know it hurts like hell to have them see you through her eyes, but believe me, some day they will know the TRUTH.

You will be so proud of yourself someday when you get through this. And you will get through this, but for now you have to find your peace even if it't in short amounts. Those times of peace will get bigger as time moves forward. Be proud of yourself, you kept your vows even if she didn't. Be proud that you love your kids, that is a precious gift to them they will never forget. You will make it through this, I promise. Find your faith, start going to church if you don't already. That is where my peace comes from and always has.