Lanny,

Thank you for your post.

You ask...Why I still love her?

She is the mother of my children and I made a promise to be with her forever. We went through a rough road to have children. It affected her so much that she went to counseling to deal with not being able to conceive. After one miscarriage, we have been blessed with 2 wonderful children.

I was also there to share in the grief of losing another child at 24 weeks(would have been our third). We cried together and we were so close at that point.

I still love her because I said my vows and meant it. Was I the perfect husband?...no
Did I make mistakes that caused us great financial hardship?...yes

I was in my marriage "until death do us part" and I know I can forgive IF she was truly repentant.

Will she ever be?...I don't know

You ask...why do I miss her?

I guess I really miss what we used to have and I miss my whole family being together.

I didn't have a chance as long as there is someone else.

What confuses me so much is that our history doesn't matter. Anything I ever did for her out of love is forgotten and all she sees is what I did wrong.

I know we could have made it through together if she didn't just quit and give her heart to someone else so quickly.

Marriage isn't easy that is why the COMMITMENT and our children are what should matter most.

I like what you said, MMF, about why you still love her. I'm glad you want to keep your family together. I know how hard it is to have your family apart. It's wrenchingly painful and it doesn't seem to get much better with time.

quote:

I didn't have a chance as long as there is someone else.

It really does feel that way, doesn't it. Terrible feeling, that one.

quote:

What confuses me so much is that our history doesn't matter. Anything I ever did for her out of love is forgotten and all she sees is what I did wrong.

Isn't that just the darndest, most bewildering thing?

Thanks for answering those questions, I really admire your convictions. If only everyone felt the way you do about marriage the world would be in a better place and this site wouldn't exist.

Another thought I'm having is how she feels about HERSELF at this point. Maybe she is feeling so much guilt about her part in your marriage that she doesn't have to deal with it with the OM? Perhaps she feels guitly about the miscarriage and the demands she made on you financially. With the OM there is no history of all the things she did wrong or feels guilty about. She gets to start over without all the baggage she is responsible for. But....it's so much easier for her to blame you rather than take her own responsibility in her actions. She is running from her inability to deal with her part in all of this. With him, she starts a new "history" that won't include her short comings and all of her guilt that she has with you. I'm not saying you put this guilt on her, I imagine she puts it on herself.

For now just be stong for yourself and realize you did not take soul responsibility in this.

quote:

She gets to start over without all the baggage she is responsible for

Actually.. this is not exactly true.

She does get to 'start over'.. but she carries around all the baggage from her marriage and herself that she has not had the courage to look at or clean up. And that is dragged into her into her 'new' life just as surely as anything else.

quote:

With him, she starts a new "history" that won't include her short comings and all of her guilt that she has with you.

She starts a new history from a place of guilt, lies and pain. Not a very pleasant place to start from.

quote:

What confuses me so much is that our history doesn't matter. Anything I ever did for her out of love is forgotten and all she sees is what I did wrong.

I know it doesn't seem to make any sense. Trust me.. she has to do that in order to assauge her guilt. And its probably at this point an almost unconscious decision to do so. Confronting her actions and her own contribution to the demise of your relationship is too much for her to look at.

There will come a time she will have to wrestle with those demons. Its just a matter of when.

Loui

quote:

Originally posted by MissMyFamily:
What confuses me so much is that our history doesn't matter. Anything I ever did for her out of love is forgotten and all she sees is what I did wrong.

MMF,

Right at this very moment... perhaps... but every FORMER wayward spouse I have EVER met has cringed at most of the things they said, did and thought were important while in the midst of the infidelity.

I SO admire how you want to understand... and that you love your wife and are committed to your children.

But honestly, you don't know what's in her head right now - and believe me you have no idea of what she will carry for the rest of her life - whether she comes back to rebuild your family or leaves for good. Either way, she will suffer with the guilt and shame for some time go come - if not forever. Even if you don't see it... even if you don't believe it... it will be there.

In the last few days I feel that I have come to the point of indifference toward my XW. I no longer care what she does and I will not let her hurt me any more.

I would never have thought I could feel this way about her but my pain must stop and somehow I arrived at this point of indifference.

She took my children from me and I am now a part-time parent. I have been verbally beaten up by her for the last time. I will always respect her as the mother of my children but that is all.

She will have to own her choices. It is not my fault she cheated. However, I am responsible for my part of the marriage but I will not accept her rationale... "I did nothing wrong because at that point I was done"!

She will have to live with the consequences of her choices.

Yes she will ...

and conversely, so will you...

quote:

I would never have thought I could feel this way about her but my pain must stop and somehow I arrived at this point of indifference.

You know MMF.. grieving is a funny thing. You go thru anger, sadness, disbelief, acceptance, etc. And sometimes we vacillate between them many times.

What would you suggest we can do at this point to help you?

Loui

LouiEJ,

I do not know what to do at this point. My heart is so broken but all I can do is move forward on my own. I do not have someone in my life to share my affections with nor am I even close to being ready for that. I just can't dismiss a marriage commitment and just move on to someone else.

It just hurts to drop off my children and have to say goodbye. I despise being a visitor in their lives because she decided I wasn't good enough to remain her husband and I was easily replaceable.

So I am not sure if there is anything left to be said.

What can one say when your whole life has been turned upside down and your family is taken from you?

What can be said when your spouse is unfaithful and blames you?

What can be said when you suddenly become the enemy and yet you didn't cheat and you didn't leave.

What can be said when...enough said


MMF

It's been a few days, MMF. How are you doing?

JustJ,

I am doing a little better now that I have reached indifference but I still have anger towards her. I was thinking a lot yesterday how she blames me for not having a third child. Remember, she miscarried after 24 weeks with #3 and I was blamed for our financial situation holding us back from trying again.

It makes me angry that she can push that on me as if I wasn't there for her when she was having problems conceiving in the beginning.

It also makes me angry that she can be so selfish by having an affair and acting as the "victim" all the way through. To tell me that she was "done" and "at least I told you first"(that she was done before going to OM).

I read about how WE the BS are to make the changes and make us a better option than the OP.

What exactly do I have to prove?

What makes her so "holier than thou" that she can do what she did to me and our children and get a "free pass".

This whole talk about fog and addiction is ridiculous. We as the BS have to deal with the pain and the hurt while the WS goes into la la land without any regard for family or their spouse.

MAKES ME SO ANGRY THAT I HAVE TO BE A PART-TIME PARENT BECAUSE SHE DECIDED OUR FAMILY WAS LESS IMPORTANT THAN HER SELFISHNESS AND OM !!

Yes.. MMF.. your anger is well justified in that her decisions changed your life. And many, if not all, BS's have to come to terms with something that their WS's did, said, felt... and that were not necessarily the truth.

Unfortunately.. she did do that.. No one here is saying she gets a free pass or that she wasn't selfish in having the affair. Absolutely no one here is saying anything makes her holier than thou. What we have said is she has her own cross to bear, her own burdens to carry and her own pain, justifications and moral issues to deal with. And those are completely different than yours. And they are no less painful.. they just might not be quite as apparant to you (or anyone) for that matter.

Whenever someone does something ethically wrong or morally lacking it does effect them. It does change them. And they can choose to stuff it down and not look at it, or cover it up with what seems to be a perfect situation, but it is still there.

Did you ever lie to someone MMF? Did you ever wish you could take something back and do it differently? It may not seem to anyone else outside looking in that it bothered you.. but deep down it did. Well.. WS's who do what your wife did.. thats how it is for them. All inside and nothing outside. Admitting that would be wayyy to hard. And wayyyy to close to admitting that the whole affair/relationship they are in now started out in an ethical vacuum.

As for you. Your anger is warranted. But eventually you either have to deal with it or it will consume you.

The BS changes we discuss here have less to do with making you a better option or choice. The changes we discuss have to do with making you a better person. Period. It has to do with dealing with your end of whatever behaviors contributed to the dysfunction in yourself and your marriage. It has nothing to do with blaming them or using them as a reason for your wife to have an affair. It is simply for YOU to use to create a better you. Whether your WS comes home or doesn't. Whether you get divorced or not. And whether you are alone in your life or not.

We don't advocate making the BS a 'better' option. We advocate making the BS a healthier human being. For themselves. And IF the WS comes home that in turn will make them a better marriage partner.

What your wife did is truly horrendous. No one is denying that or arguing that. Now.. what do YOU want to do about how you want to move forward.

Loui

This is what I am doing for me...

Made an appointment for smoking cessation program

Starting with a physical trainer

whitening my teeth

moving to a new place closer to my children where they will have their own bedrooms


I spoke to her earlier about time with the kids today. She wanted me to trade today for tomorrow so she can have time with them(she doesn't work) She gave me an attitude when I wouldn't change my plans. I called her back and traded with her because loving means giving. I don't want to do a thing for her because of what she did but it is not in me to NOT want to give.

I hope I am not perceived as a doormat and that she loses respect for me for giving in.

My children and I have to deal with her selfishness but I am me and I just can't shut off the love for my family(including my WS)

Hey there -- I hear ya on the anger. I'm not going to push you to start healing from it. Not yet. Having been where you are and having felt that utterly powerless rage, well...

I think you're doing well when you recognize it and express it verbally, here, where it's safe to do so.

And I like that you're taking steps to shift your life and improve it. Keep going on those things! They'll help a lot, particularly as you build one upon another.

Exercise is a good way to use up the adrenaline that gets pumped into your system when you feel that rage, so good on ya for starting with the personal trainer!

The whole question of trading time versus not trading time can be really difficult. Think of it from the kids' perspective. Kids learn a new routine, and that routine becomes part of the structure of their world. If you change it, that's okay, to a point. But remember that the structure still needs to be there for them. If your wife wants to make a lot of changes to the routine, or if she wants to make changes that limit your time with them, those are areas where it would be good to say no.

It is also very good to say no if you already made plans with the kids. And for now, I suggest making more plans with the kids. "I am -so- sorry, but we're having lunch with [insert kids' friend's name here] during that time..." can really help limit the amount of needless schedule changing.

Think, though, about the reasons when you should say no -- and the reasons when you should say yes. "Because she wanted me to" isn't a good reason to say yes OR no anymore. That shift took me quite a long time, but then again, I had attorneys feeding me specific lines to say at specific times for months. The end of that dreadful (but necessary) play-acting was rather stressful. Hard to be "nice" when all you want to do is throttle someone.

quote:

Made an appointment for smoking cessation program

Starting with a physical trainer

whitening my teeth

moving to a new place closer to my children where they will have their own bedrooms

Woohoo! Well done.

MMF,

How are you?

MMF, I just read your posts here. Oh man, I'm so, so sorry. It just plain sucks, it does. Everyone here has given you such good advice. It takes time, though, because it's a lot. Your emotions are still catching up to the reality of your divorce.

Your life is different now, it just is. It wasn't fair, and you didn't deserve it. But your job now is to manage your divorce, not your marriage.

Maintain your integrity.

Talk to other guys. You're part of a big fish pond now, and that has a way of putting it in perspective.

To the largest extent possible, go dark.Communicate with her only in writing-email, text. Resist the urge to argue. Reply only when it's essential. Always ask yourself if a reply is absolutely necessary. Say nothing you wouldn't want a judge to hear. Document every single little thing.

Don't confuse the law with fairness. Property division and child support are the law, and the law doesn't care a hoot who did what. Don't use the law to punish her, use it to enforce your agreement. Make sure you have a very practical, settlement oriented lawyer to pull you back from the ledge.

BTW, the infatuation chemistry can work for you, too. If my ex was talking marriage this fast I'd pay for the wedding, because it would literally save me a million dollars in spousal support. That's the law, too.

Here's the hard part. She's not your wife any more. She's not the person you married and loved. Grieve the loss, it's ok. She and you are separate, private people now. Parent your children, and otherwise let her go. For me, nothing helped quite like having the whole thing over with. A new home, one with no memories, and making every second of the time with the children loving and conflict-free. That is, never let them see, hear or even know about conflict between you and mom. Texting is great for that- silent. You're a single dad. Me too. You're living on half your income or less, me too. Mom won't pay half for scouts or camp or new boots while she lives rent-free? No prob. Pay if you can afford it. Live like she doesn't exist. Live like you're all they've got. If you can and want to afford it, ok. If you can't, well lots of people can't. See what I mean? Forget her life.

So many people assured me, and now I see it to be true, that the children aren't harmed by the divorce as much as they're harmed by the conflict. They just want mom and dad not to fight. Don't fight. It's over. She did it, you divorced over it. There is no further to go that won't do more harm.

Muscle through this and love those precious little ones. I assure you there is life on the other side.

Hello Nyneve,

Even after 16 months since D-day, I still do not sleep well. I had my children over the weekend and it is hard to control the hurt in front of them. I raise my voice for no reason and I feel so bad afterwards. They did not ask for this and I know they don't understand but I hate when they mention OM who they think is only "a friend" to their mother.

I have quit smoking for 4 days with no issues(I will never go back to that again)

I had my teeth whitened last week

I have hired a personal trainer

Close to locking up my new place to live. It will be very close to my children so I can request more overnights and more visitation.

Still miss my XW dearly.

I would give anything to hold her and hear her tell me how much she loves me and our family.

MMF...

I know how painful this must be for you... and how difficult to hear the children talk.

I just want to give you a small bit of advice from someone who is down the road a long piece from where you are at now and have the advantage of experience.

Be very.. and I mean EXTREMELY careful of what you say, how much you say and how you behave in front of the kids. It has long lasting, long ranging effects that you cannot possibly foresee.

As difficult as this is right now, try to be cordial about your wife...and try to not say anything demeaning or derrogatory about her. As for OM.. its best if nothing at all is said rather than nasty. It is extremely upsetting to the kids to hear it and they are put in the most uncomfortable position of either defending one parent to the other.. or having to reconcile to themselves one parents disdain for the other. Not at all a good place for a kid to be.

Its okay to tell the kids you miss your wife..its okay to tell the kids you miss having a 'family'..Its even okay to say you hope she comes home and walks away from OM... its not okay to tell the kids intimate details of what you miss and about the infidelity.

I would hate to see you do things that compromise integrity in front of the kids...once the damage is done, it cannot be undone. Take the high road whenever you can and as often as you can. Your children will thank you for it down the road apiece. I promise you that.

Loui

Hi MMF,

First, about this:

quote:

I have quit smoking for 4 days with no issues(I will never go back to that again)

I had my teeth whitened last week

I have hired a personal trainer

Close to locking up my new place to live. It will be very close to my children so I can request more overnights and more visitation.

I am SOOOOOOOOOOO HAPPY for you!!! Keep it up!!!! ALL of this will help you so much in the long run... even if it doesn't feel like it right this moment. Trust us on this!!

Now, about this:

quote:

Originally posted by MissMyFamily:
Even after 16 months since D-day, I still do not sleep well.

I had my children over the weekend and it is hard to control the hurt in front of them. I raise my voice for no reason and I feel so bad afterwards. They did not ask for this and I know they don't understand but I hate when they mention OM who they think is only "a friend" to their mother.

Still miss my XW dearly.

I would give anything to hold her and hear her tell me how much she loves me and our family.

Please do not give up hope - we haven't!

The things you are doing to improve yourself and your situation will make you healthier and more attractive to your wife... and believe it or not, when the dust settles (and it hasn't happened yet!) she may notice and you may decide it's too late. Or not.

And take it from an expert at guilt... it may be helpful as a reminder to walk away from poor choices, but don't let it guide you - it can eat you up alive!

No, your children did not ask for this, but neither did you! However, you have choices how to respond to them and I believe you should use age-appropriate language to tell them the truth. This is my opinion and not shared by everyone, just so you understand.

To clarify: I'm not saying to trash-talk OM, I'm saying to tell the truth in an age-appropriate way, like, to a 5 year old I might say: "That's not mommy's friend, that's her boyfriend. Married mommies shouldn't have boyfriends. It hurts daddy very much." If questions are then asked, answer in an age-appropriate way. And, by the way, tears aren't a bad thing, neither is sharing your fear of losing your family.

MMF, my ex-H could have said many of things you have said. As I told you before, I've been on both sides of the infidelity circle... and it sux in horrible ways on BOTH sides. I feel for you... and hear you... and like all of us, am thinking of you and wish you a restored marriage.