May I ask for some thoughts...

Last night, I had an hour long discussion with my STBXW about our children, our M and why we are where we are today.(she brought it up)

For all who care to comment...

If she is so "DONE" with me and our M and is with OM in her heart. why does she still talk to me about our M? Why does she get emotional when we talk about it?

I am so confused and it rips at my heart when she does this.

MMF

I still continue to process this nightmare. She is so wrapped up in OM that I expect to hear about an engagement any time now. Her weekends are about being with OM with our children and when they are with me.

I agree with Nyneve and have been vigilant in letting my D6 and S5 know that their mother is a liar and a cheater and her relationship with OM is wrong.

She will never, ever, ever get a free pass to be an adulterer and break up our family because of her selfishness. I will make certain that my children resent her and her choice to be a cheater for the rest of her life.

As a BS, I will not be silent and just "take it" regarding her choice to be an adulterer. I read about PP and wonder why I, or any other BS, would protect the WS from the children knowing the truth.

This is the issue I have...the BS is to be the "mature" person and is expected to do the right thing for the children while the WS goes about their selfish ways expecting no consequences.

To make my point about selfishness...

Last night my D6 told me she asked her mother why we were getting divorced. Her mother's response, "Daddy was supposed to take care of me and he didn't."

ALL ABOUT HER...LYING, CHEATING, SELFISH ADULTERER !!!

My children will grow up knowing that their mother only gives a **** about herself and what the TRUTH is

MMF

I'm so sorry for your pain MMF. And I'm so sorry your wife is so self absorbed that she is saying such foolish unhelpful things to your kids. It's so sad to use such young innocent things as the warground.

Mags,

Yes, it is sad that such destructive and selfish decisions are made with no expectation of consequences. My children will forever be affected by this and my XW will see the results of her selfishness. The result will be the loss of respect from her children and a whole new set of issues when real life sets in.

ADULTERY IS A CHOICE AND THAT CHOICE HAS CONSEQUENCES !!

I realize that you are in alot of pain and what your wife is doing is harmful to you and your kids. I understand how painful all of this is for you.

I'd like to know though what exactly is helpful about telling your children that your wife is a liar and a cheater in exactly that language?

I also would like to know why you think it is a good idea and not harmful to them in the long term to "make sure" that the children resent her for the rest of her life? She is, no matter what happens, their mother.

To be honest, you probably don't have to do a darned thing for them to resent her breaking up your family. They'll more than likely harbor their feelings on that all on their own.

The only thing I am worried about is how YOU represent yourself to your children.

Personally..after 9 yrs of divorce...
I have learned that the nasty things my exH said about me only diminished him in the kids eyes. And the nasty things I said about him cause my children great emotional upheaval.

Best to let the actions speak for themselves. Words are not always helpful in the long run.

Just a thought. You want your kids to gravitate towards you and see you as the moral, upstanding parent figure. Then behave like one. That means more often than not taking the high road and not saying nasty adjectives about your wife.

Down the road a piece your children will respect you for it and appreciate you for it.

Personally.. I might lay it out more in words like:

Your mother has made a choice that is unethical and hurtful. Your mother is behaving in a selfish manner.

That puts the root of it on her behavior and actions. Which is exactly what the issue is. Not who she is.

Loui

Someone who is wise -- and who I had NO desire to listen to -- said to me, "There are always two stories. I no longer even tell children that there was an affair, because there is always something more that comes out. Always. The only true thing you can say to a young child about this is, 'Grownup relationships are complicated.'"

I know how hurt and angry you are, MMF, and I'm so sorry for how awful that must be. Healing is really hard after something like this. It feels kind of like dying. I think that's why we fight it so hard.

I know you will be able to do it. If we can help, please, let us know how.

quote:

the BS is to be the "mature" person and is expected to do the right thing for the children while the WS goes about their selfish ways expecting no consequences.

You are fighting her selfishness and short-sightedness with your own?

quote:

ADULTERY IS A CHOICE AND THAT CHOICE HAS CONSEQUENCES !!

Everything we do is a choice and has natural consequences. To include what you are choosing to do with your children. Oftentimes, when we are in the "heat of the moment," it is hard to see down the road and how it all might unfold. Oftentimes, it does not unfold the way we think it will when we are making our choices in that moment.

I counseled with a family the other day in which the Children were so miserable from the mother's constant verbal battering (they called it bad-mouthing) of their father (who had had an affair) that their request was for the mother to STOP. It wasn't their business, they told me, and they love both their parents the same, they told me, and they didn't want to hear about it anymore. They wished the mother would go see a counselor herself so she could get help with her anger over the affair.

People are complex and strange creatures. Uniformally, though, the general rule is that when people are under stress, they regress. It takes a constant, vigilant effort to use the situation as a vehicle to something besides poor behavior.

I feel great sadness for the children in this situation....

MMF,

How are you?

I have very little time but I really do want to say something here...

Although I believe in telling children the truth about an unfaithful parent in an age-appropriate way, I also believe in using compassion and GREAT CARE in the words chosen. And after, be there to comfort them. They'll NEED THAT.

Loui is right when she says that the children will resent her no matter what you say. Children are very intuitive and know when there are problems, even when parents lie to "protect them". I also believe that once you tell them, there is no need to continually tell them how painful it is... again, they are intuitive and also see first-hand what the infidelity has caused.

I want to encourage you to step back a moment... breathe... and stop talking about your ex to your children. You've explained, they know... now comfort them.

As always, I am so sorry for your pain...

I don't know your full situation but reading this last page reminded me of something someone said to me that at the time I did not like very much. She told me that my X and I were now participating in negative intimacy - negative because we were being fairly rotten to each other - intimate because we had a long history and knew initimately how to hurt each other.

Your kids sound very important to you and I am so sorry you and your family are going through all of this!

Tiggy

Here are some gems from the holidays...

1) XWW calls to discuss the Christmas arrangement where I have both children for XMAS day(all day). She is not happy with the arrangement so she wants to negotiate a "middle ground". We talk for 45 minutes mostly about the marriage and the things that happened. She STILL denies she was with OM while we were still together. So when we finish talking about R(I didn't start it she did) she CRIES AGAIN and then we finish the call.

2) OM was at her parent's house(where she currently lives) for Christmas night and New Year's Eve. (Great knowing I returned my children back so OM could stop over)

3) D6 tells me that she asked her mother for $4 to buy her teacher a Xmas gift. XWW said "No" HOWEVER my DD said, "mommy cannot give me money for my teacher's gift but she bought all kinds of presents for OM's kids"

4) It has been an even greater insult to me knowing that my XWW bought OM and his kids Christmas gifts with money she gets for CS. (Remember, she doesn't work and lives rent-free with her parents). I said that to her in our conversation before XMAS and she said, "that isn't true". Since she doesn't work...then where did she get the money for all the gifts?

5) Just before New Years my DS was sick and we all met at CVS to get his prescription. Anyway, we were in the store together(all 4 of us alone)for the first time in over a year. My DD asked her mother the next day how she felt having our family together again and my XWW said "it is very sad".(How sad that my XWW doesn't care except about herself)

6) I am very surprised that XWW and OM did not get engaged over the holidays.


This pain must get easier at some point. It hurts to know her family accepts OM with no regard for our 15 years together and she has moved on as if I don't exist(except for her CS payments)

My DS and DD are very sad and I cannot do anything to make it better and to get my XWW to WAKE UP!!!

It is also very confusing when XWW talks about our M and cries. It is so unfair and gives me mixed signals but then I hear about all she is doing for OM and his kids and knocks me down again.

When does this end ??

I'm so sorry the holidays were rough, MMF. It's a difficult time even when the pain is long past, and it's really hard when it's fresh. Wish I could send my husband over for one of those manly hugs that guys give each other. (Err, what's up with those, anyway? No, never mind, I probably don't want to know.)

So....... what are you doing to focus on your own life and getting it calm and peaceful? 'Cause there is nothing you can do about your exwife right now, not even understand her. (Trust me on this one, I've tried. It doesn't work.) So -- are you eating/sleeping/creating peace and serenity? What's that look like for ya?

For me, it looks like making pizza with my daughter (who is also 6), painting pottery, and watching Wall-E. How about you?

I had a talk with XW today and after telling me about how great of a guy OM is, she proceeds to tell me that OMW(now OMXW) cheated on him! Also, that OMW's bf would pick her up from their house while OM was still living there.

Apparently, OM was so broken hearted over his own wife's infidelity he had no problem getting involved with another man's wife(NOT!!)

XW says he is a great guy and that he only got involved with her because she said our M was over. She added that he was so concerned for us and our children that he even encouraged her to work on the marriage(what a guy...shucks)

She actually said I should be happy for her and that he is good to our kids....oh brother!!

I just do not understand why my XW still gets angry with me over our M when we have been apart for 1 1/2 years? Yesterday, I called to work out our children's dental appointment and she proceeds to take jabs at me about money(as usual).

Our conversation lasts well over an hour while she tries to justify the start of her A saying that OM did nothing wrong since she told him she was "done" with the M.. When I responded in the conversation she gets hostile saying that I don't listen and if I had done what she needed from me, we would still be together.

If she is so "content" and "in love" with OM, why does she STILL talk about the failure of our M and is so emotional about it?

I am so sick and tired of feeling lost, betrayed and lonely while she just moves on with OM like I didn't matter.

I am so disgusted...

MMF

Sounds like she's still unhappy with her life and looking for someone to blame. Or feeling a lot of guilt and struggling for justification/rationalisation. But it doesn't really matter why she's doing it, that's her problem and doesn't need to be yours.

Is there any way you can shut her down on this line of discussion since it upsets you so much? It sounds like there's not much you can do to bring her out of her fog - but you don't have be be dragged into it as well. When she starts complaining about the marriage and so on can you politely decline to discuss or listen to the topic?

Hi MMF,

New here but wanted to let you know that your frustration is shared and that you are not alone in questioning what WS are saying.

I agree with Mags. She is probably still unhappy, and maybe her fog is wearing off a little and she doesn't like what she has done.

I also agree with you - if she was so content she wouldn't need to feel like she has to sell it so hard.

No matter what though we have to take care of ourselves first. As hard as it seems to do when they push our buttons. I know it is something I struggle with daily and I have only spoken to my WH a couple of times in the last few months- and I am expecting our child so it is really hard to push him out of mind. Like today- v-day and I know he is in Vegas with OW. But like any other day- it will end and there will be another day to come.

I know it isn't much, but I have found alot of comfort just knowing that others share and understand my feelings.
Sending positive thoughts your way.

Hello All...

It has been a while for me. Just an update...

XW is still with OM.. Lately, she is doing overnights with our children when OM has his children. I have yet to meet OM and my XW avoids any potential contact between me and OM. A few months back my XW stated that OM is not to blame as she told him our M was over. Ironically, XW claims that OM's ex cheated on him and that I should be empathize with OM becasue he is a nice guy and good to the kids and that I should be happy for her.

Any way, it appears they are heading toward M and I am left in the dust as a part-time father. I read that most A's don't last but it appears my ex and OM will beat the odds.She still lives at her parent's house and will be there for another year until she finishes school. I fully intend to file a motion in family court to modify visitation to 50/50. I am really tired of feeling like this and all of the counseling is not helping.

Can any one explain why my ex's A hasn't died but is thriving?

I really miss my family...

MMF

Hi MMF. I'm sorry this is still so hard -- and I know it is. The thriving and subsequent shift of an affair relationship can take as long as ten years. And don't hold your breath even then. Sometimes people stay together for reasons that have nothing to do with happiness. And sometimes they actually find happiness, and everyone is amazed.

As for you, though I'm sure the change is achingly slow, you sound like you've gone from a furious, impotent, horrific rage into a state of deep sadness. Not a great change from the inside, I know -- but progress nonetheless, when viewed from outside.

Has anyone discussed Protection Phase with him? Only dealing with his STBX through an intermediary?